Just Bought My First Ls 430 And I Love It !

[javier]

I started with a 01 GS 430 and really enjoyed the silky smooth V8 and luxurious interior. After 5 years of driving the GS, I decided to get a LS 430. Over the weekend I purchased a 05 Lexus LS 430 with custom luxury package. This car has so many more options than my GS 430. I am really liking this car and glad I bought it. The LS 430 rides like a dream and is rattle free. I have decided to give my dad my GS 430 since he has always wanted that car since day one. I don't think I will miss my GS 430. The GS 430 is a great car but I think the flagship LS 430 is even better. I consider the LS 430 a upgrade. I posted some pics of my LS 430.

[curiousB]

Nice car. I envy your posh garage even more!! :whistles:

Welcome to he forum. This is a great place to learn more about your car and share knowledge with fellow owners.

[jaswood]

I'm going to wait for the LS350 that uses the GS's DFI V6. 300HP is more than enough, my '92 LS has only 248.

[SW03ES]

I'm going to wait for the LS350 that uses the GS's DFI V6. 300HP is more than enough, my '92 LS has only 248.

I wouldn't hold my breath, with the ES moving to the larger Avalon platform (or...Avalon derivative of the Camry platform) I wouldn't think an LS350 would be likely.

[jaswood]

LS350 would be RWD. I think Lexus quite well understands that their market will be primarily RWD.

FWD is the less expensive (and less safe) "spread".

[SW03ES]

LS350 would be RWD. I think Lexus quite well understands that their market will be primarily RWD.

FWD is the less expensive (and less safe) "spread".

The FWD ES has always handily been the brand's best selling sedan. Their best selling vehicle is the RX...which is also basically FWD. So, I would say over half of their total vehicle sales are FWD vehicles, I would argue that their market is primarily RWD. They aren't going to have two vehicles that cater to the same market. If the new, larger ES350 tops out at $50k or so fully loaded, they won't also have a similarly sized LS350 in a similar price point. It just doesn't make any sense when the ES and LS already appeal to similar buyers, just in different financial spectrums.

The ES is an unusual car that nobody else really has in their lineup...all the entry level type cars are smaller, and sportier when you look at BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac, etc. The 740i is $13,000 cheaper than the 750I, so if the LS460 starts at $67k now. you're talking about a start of low to mid $50k probably, where its going to compete with the ES and GS, I just don't see that happening.

[jaswood]

On the other hand would there be a market for the GS if there was an LS with the GS engine, or even an LS450h.

With all the rumors flying about regarding the end of life for the Avalon I have wondered I that might mean a Toyota "GS".

By the way, I suspect that the only reason the ES exists at all is because Lexus wished to begin building a dealer network before actual product arrived and the Toyota was chosen for that role.

[jaswood]

LS350 would be RWD. I think Lexus quite well understands that their market will be primarily RWD.

FWD is the less expensive (and less safe) "spread".

The FWD ES has always handily been the brand's best selling sedan.

Their best selling vehicle is the RX...which is also basically FWD.

What might be the ratio of FWD RXes sold vs pretent "AWD" RXes...??

While WE know that the RX "AWD" is primarily/predominantly only FWD, what does the general RX buying public know or think.

I myself feel I was "suckered" into this marketing scam. The early RX models seemed to have a reasonably fucntional AWD system, even a rear LSD as an option. With the 2001 model year the more functional AWD syste was tossed in favor of the ML320's use of braking to apportion torque....while simultaneously dethrottling, FULLY dethrottling, the engine. Trac/VSC activation often later resulting in an indication, falsely, of oxygen sensor failure. Even the rear LSD option was dropped as of 2001, relying on differential braking instead.

So, I would say over half of their total vehicle sales are FWD vehicles,

Maybe, but again, how many of those RXes were purchased with the buyer being of the belief, false belief, that they were getting a reasonably functional AWD system...?

I would argue that their market is primarily RWD.

Wholeheartily agree.

They aren't going to have two vehicles that cater to the same market.

Back in the days of only the ES, GS, LS, RX, and LX, I would have agreed. But then today, at least to/for me, the GX and LX are in direct conflict. Put the GS engine in the GX, and maybe even have a GXh, and that conflict, confusiion in the buyers mind, goes away.

(note: the 4runner now has ONLY V6...probably to avoid Toyota product conflicts???)

These days I've become so confused about the various models below the GS that I no longer "track" them.

If the new, larger ES350 tops out at $50k or so fully loaded, they won't also have a similarly sized LS350 in a similar price point.

"Marketing" will tell you that this issue of simuilar pricing is oftentimes a non-issue, it's how the buyer "identifies" with the product that matters. ES is both FWD and "compact", compact in the buyers eye even if not in reality.

It just doesn't make any sense when the ES and LS already appeal to similar buyers, just in different financial spectrums.

"..just in different financial spectrums..." Financial...That is no small matter. And if you separate out the financial spectrum differences you'll still be left with the greater age and educational aspects of buyers leaning toward the LS. Note that the LS600h has been a total flop. Buyers in that price range are too well educated to "buy" into the "green" aspects.

The ES is an unusual car that nobody else really has in their lineup...all the entry level type cars are smaller, and sportier when you look at BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac, etc. The 740i is $13,000 cheaper than the 750I, so if the LS460 starts at $67k now. you're talking about a start of low to mid $50k probably, where its going to compete with the ES and GS, I just don't see that happening.

Sorry, for me, rather than buy an ES (I would NEVER...FWD) I would look to the Camry, or maybe even the Camry/h.

AND.. While I would NEVER consider the purchase of an LS600h, I would probably pay a premium for a LS450h over the LS470.

Maybe that's the market Lexus is missing out on, an LS450h.

And I wonder what the cost might be to bring an LX450h to market...don't care for the rear door "thing" of the GX.

[SW03ES]

By the way, I suspect that the only reason the ES exists at all is because Lexus wished to begin building a dealer network before actual product arrived and the Toyota was chosen for that role.

Thats absolutely correct, but the car was such a sales success they kept it on.

But then today, at least to/for me, the GX and LX are in direct conflict.

The LX costs a LOT more than the GX and is significantly larger. Hardly competitors. The LX starts at $80k, nearly $30k more than the GX.

(note: the 4runner now has ONLY V6...probably to avoid Toyota product conflicts???)

No, theres just no market for a V8 midsized non-luxury SUV anymore. All the competition, except the Jeep, has dropped their V8 offering.

These days I've become so confused about the various models below the GS that I no longer "track" them.

Whats to be confused about? Theres the ES and IS. ES is larger, totally luxury focused. IS is smaller and sport focused. Pretty simple.

"Marketing" will tell you that this issue of simuilar pricing is oftentimes a non-issue, it's how the buyer "identifies" with the product that matters. ES is both FWD and "compact", compact in the buyers eye even if not in reality.

As a buyer in this segment, an LS owner more or less for the past 14 years and an ES owner for the last 9 I completely disagree. People do not see the ES as a "compact" vehicle, and nobody knows its FWD...or really even cares about the difference. I drive people around in my ES all the time and its often the topic of conversation. People refer to my "old school big Lexus sedan" all the time. I would say that most people do not even know the difference between an LS and an ES. I've had several people make comments about my ES when we're talking about cars along the lines of "Well, my car didn't cost $60k" alluding to the fact that they believe mine did. So, obviously the typical public doesn't get it. I have a good buddy I go to the DC auto show with every year, he has a BMW 3 series, not a huge car guy but he has more than a passing knowledge. We were sitting in the LS and he thought it was the same model I had.

Again, remember...the ES sells more vehicles than every other Lexus sedan combined, and that market is typically older...they like it because its a big comfortable car.

"..just in different financial spectrums..." Financial...That is no small matter. And if you separate out the financial spectrum differences you'll still be left with the greater age and educational aspects of buyers leaning toward the LS.

Actually ES buyers are on average older than LS buyers. Educational differences? Pretty much the total luxury car demographic is well educated.

I would argue that their market is primarily RWD.

Wholeheartily agree.

Just to be clear, I would argue with your point that Lexus' market is predominately RWD. Since their best selling vehicles are FWD based, I would say their market is predominately FWD.

Sorry, for me, rather than buy an ES (I would NEVER...FWD) I would look to the Camry, or maybe even the Camry/h.

Thats fine, but remember...the ES sells more units than all the other Lexus sedans combined. Without the ES...Lexus wouldn't be in business, at least not at the level they are today. The ES is Lexus bread and butter. Sure I too prefer RWD, but in most driving you really can't tell the difference between FWD and RWD.

I have a lot of colleagues that have Camrys and the Camryh that I've ridden in extensively. No comparison to the ES, the ES is much smoother, quieter, much more comfortable, much nicer materials (the Camry is REALLY sh!tty inside, even the high trims, very poor quality leather, plastics, carpeting, etc), much more panache and style...for really very little more money. I think its a great value...and obviously people agree with me because like I said...it outsells all other Lexus sedans combined, and is always one of the top performers, if not the top performer in its market segment.

I love the LS, I am intimately familiar with the LS, its one of my favorite cars and I've put a lot of miles on the LS cars my Dad owned. One day I'm sure I'll have an LS, but the ES gets more and more LS like with each passing generation...and the LS gets more and more expensive. Each time I buy one I always labor whether I should get an ES or a 3 year old LS, and I always drive them back to back to back and really...the LS is obviously more car...but I don't miss the LS when I drive the ES. When you go back and forth you obviously can tell the difference when you get in the ES straight out of the LS. But, you drive it for a while and come to the conclusion that this is really a car that has many of the attributes of the LS...for a LOT less money. At this point in my life, I'm happy to have the additional $30,000 in my pocket and my ES over an LS. Half the price, but I'd say 75% as much car. I used to really want an LS, but since I've had this car...that desire has seriously diminished. Its such an improvement over my old 2003 ES, a car I also enjoyed, its not even funny. I really, really like my 2010 ES.

Bottom line, while the current LS has a lot more features and performance than it had...if you compare a 2010 ES and a late 90's LS...they are VERY comparable. Similar performance, similar to more features, similar comfort. I know this...because I've had both. At some point it becomes a diminishing return I feel, what I want is what I had in 1998, and the current ES...really is that, and the next generation on a longer platform giving you LS legroom in the back and a longer wheelbase with an even better ride? Even more reason not to spend more for the LS IMHO.