Had To Tap Starter While Turning Key To Get It To Start

[prix]

Yes, I am aware of that. I am not sure whether I got a the single clicks (on Sunday) because I did not continue to hold the key to the right long enough or just what. That's possible. One thing is for sure; every time now, I am getting the rapid fire clicks. AAA tested the battery on Sunday and said there was nothing wrong with it. So maybe there is an electrical or connection issue elsewhere. At the very least, that should be ruled out before we pull the starter. I find it odd the starter would 'go' instantly since most people say they got theirs to work for a quite a bit longer once it first acted up (like for several weeks longer). I will have the mechanic run a full diagnosis and report back. Weird that I would be getting single clicks at first and now rapid fire clicks.

click click click is a dead battery or bad/corroded connections. Dimming headlights suggest the same thing. I think I'd check battery voltage before ripping open manifold to swap the starter... Your symptoms seem to be moving around, or at least your observations of them are.

[UCF3]

A couple of things come to mind. (1)test the battery and the connections, as CuriousB mentioned earlier. Take it to Advanced Auto, Pepboys, walmart, and they'll test your battery. The read out should be above 8 cranking amps. If the battery is okay, clean-off the terminals using wire-brush and some battery acid cleaner. (2)next issue will rotate around Starter and then your (3)alternator. I replaced my starter motor once when I had my 94 LS.

Let us know where we stand from there.

[prix]

Thanks. The battery tested fine/strong on Sunday. The car hasn't been driven much and today I was trying to start it so the thing may have gotten weak. I just do not know. Why is the tat tat tat tat tat sound coming from the far right side (sounds like it's near the hood under the passenger side dash)? That's to my right when sitting in the driver's seat.

A couple of things come to mind. (1)test the battery and the connections, as CuriousB mentioned earlier. Take it to Advanced Auto, Pepboys, walmart, and they'll test your battery. The read out should be above 8 cranking amps. If the battery is okay, clean-off the terminals using wire-brush and some battery acid cleaner. (2)next issue will rotate around Starter and then your (3)alternator. I replaced my starter motor once when I had my 94 LS.

Let us know where we stand from there.

[curiousB]

The tat tat tat is the starter solenoid engaging and pulling the contactor plate to complete the circuit for the starter motor. The motor then is a huge current draw, 120Amps or more, so the battery either isn't able to supply that current (dead or faulty battery) or the wiring has too much resistance (caused by corroded or loose connections). This causes the voltage to drop at the starter motor and the solenoid disengages. The voltage climbs back and the solenoid re-engages, starter motor gets power, voltage drops and the cycle keeps repeating itself.

If you can budge a battery connection with your hand it is too loose. These have to be clamped tightly and metal to metal contact or the current can't flow. An old trick for cold winters in Canada was to get a sheet metal screw #6 or #8 and screw it in the gap between the battery post and clamp. This was a bandaid for -40 degree days when all you wanted was to get it running and get out of the cold.... brrrrrrrrr

[prix]

This list (which is helpful) doesn't mention anything about gaskets. I think I read I should replace the intake manifold gasket too. I have never worked with this mechanic before. Is there anything he could possibly do to screw things up if he does replace it the intake gasket? Do you recommend this be done or should we just leave it alone?

I think I read on another thread that someone else caused a vacuum leak when they put on a new intake gasket.

I have an independent mechanic lined up to do the work at a good rate (he's seemed really knowledgeable ... everything that he said was in sync with what I have read in these forums about starter repair on an LS400). I'm supplying the parts; he's doing the labor. So my next step is to cost out rebuilt starters. I'm assuming OEM new would be cost prohibitive. Can you recommend a good rebuilt brand, or two? Or where would I go to get my starter rebuilt? I think I will probably replace the whole starter rather than have him do just the solenoid contacts. That's how I am leaning at the moment. I read on some thread that Carson Toyota uses rebuilts by Denso (there was another part to the name but I forget what it was...something like AFIAK?). Not sure if that is even true (that they use that brand). I can look around some more in forums to find what others are using, but thought I would check here too. If this is the original starter, it's lasted almost 100K miles with no problems until now. I doubt any replacement will last as long. Also, what other parts should I buy? I read I would need an intake gasket. Is there anything else? Thanks.

I had never heard of tapping on a starter in the LS because it is buried under the intake manifold and basically inaccessible from the outside. But I suppose you could set up vibrations by tapping at the rear of the engine that might cause the solenoid to make contact. That is what I believe he did.

So, on to your questions. Does this mean conclusively that the starter is the problem? No, not 100%, just 99%. We do not know how many miles are on this starter. But it is a really, really good probability that your problem is the starter solenoid... in which case, the starter will need to be accessed. Even If you only need to "clean" the solenoid contacts(it needs replacing...the copper is gone), it still requires accessing the starter which is THE issue. Labor. Good mechanics "ain't" cheap, as you probably know. As a ballpark guess, a good mechanic could replace the starter in about 5-6 hrs. At $80/hr, you are still looking at $400-500 just for labor. Then there is the matter of the starter. While you have access to the starter, you might as well get the original rebuilt or buy a good quality replacement. Another $200-$300. So, be prepared for somewhere in the $600-$800 (or more) range depending upon who you can get to do the work. A good independent mechanic is your best bet.

Given a look at the starter components once I had it apart the minimum I would do is:

Clean and lub the solenoid mechanicals.

Clean, fine sandpaper, the commutator.

Replace the brushes.

Replace the solenoid "bypass" contacts.

Cleaning/burnishing the battery posts/connections might have fixed the flinkering light problem.

I have personally seen battery connections so corroded that a light level of current would flow but current at the starter requirement level would result in smoke rising from the battery terminal(s). I suspect almost any marginal elctrical connection could act the same.

[prix]

So are you saying this rat-tat-tat- noise is proof the starter/solenoid is working fine? And that the problem is with the battery or a connection?

The tat tat tat is the starter solenoid engaging and pulling the contactor plate to complete the circuit for the starter motor. The motor then is a huge current draw, 120Amps or more, so the battery either isn't able to supply that current (dead or faulty battery) or the wiring has too much resistance (caused by corroded or loose connections). This causes the voltage to drop at the starter motor and the solenoid disengages. The voltage climbs back and the solenoid re-engages, starter motor gets power, voltage drops and the cycle keeps repeating itself.

If you can budge a battery connection with your hand it is too loose. These have to be clamped tightly and metal to metal contact or the current can't flow. An old trick for cold winters in Canada was to get a sheet metal screw #6 or #8 and screw it in the gap between the battery post and clamp. This was a bandaid for -40 degree days when all you wanted was to get it running and get out of the cold.... brrrrrrrrr

[curiousB]

Yes, if that is truly the symptom. click click click is telltale dead battery or bad connections. Fix that first. That doesn't mean the starter or solenoid is fine but you need to get that problem resolved first.

[UCF3]

Thanks. The battery tested fine/strong on Sunday. The car hasn't been driven much and today I was trying to start it so the thing may have gotten weak. I just do not know. Why is the tat tat tat tat tat sound coming from the far right side (sounds like it's near the hood under the passenger side dash)? That's to my right when sitting in the driver's seat.

A couple of things come to mind. (1)test the battery and the connections, as CuriousB mentioned earlier. Take it to Advanced Auto, Pepboys, walmart, and they'll test your battery. The read out should be above 8 cranking amps. If the battery is okay, clean-off the terminals using wire-brush and some battery acid cleaner. (2)next issue will rotate around Starter and then your (3)alternator. I replaced my starter motor once when I had my 94 LS.

Let us know where we stand from there.

Can't say exactly what's going on with your car without looking at it. try to tighten down your battery terminals again, and off-course do not wear off the nut. The tat tat tat noise is as CuriousB mentioned is the starter solenoid trying to engage, and is located towards the passenger side of the engine bay.

You may need to replace the positive and negative terminals, and they're not quite cheap ($50-60 for both) from Toyota or Lexus.

[prix]

Yes, it's the starter. AAA left not too long ago and the guy was great. Btw, I found out if the problem is with a AAA battery, they don't ding you a service call. So I got a freebee, woo-hoo.

He said the battery was discharged because the starter is going out and is pulling too many amps. That, combined with the fact that I was also leaving the car parked for three or more days at a time, or making only short trips to nearby stores, all added up to a battery that was not able to recharge itself. The alternator tested excellent (whew).

Why did he say it's the starter? After he put jumper cables on the battery, when the starter kicked in, you could hear metallic gnashing noises. It almost sounds like something is loose and tumbling around in a garbage disposal (though of course not at all as loud as that). It's definitely on its way out. There may even be something broken off in the starter. Not sure. It's working, but probably for not much longer.

Before he left, he told me to go for a good long drive tonight, then to put a 2 hour slow charge on the battery tomorrow. I just got back from the drive (45 minutes), but, unfortunately, the two freeways I tried were jammed with slow moving, bumper-to-bumper traffic. It was so bad, I didn't even get on them. Instead, I got it up to 40 mph (did not want to get ticketed for speeding) on the side streets. Mostly it was stop and go driving in traffic, with some clear patches of 35 or 40 mph mixed in. At least I kept it running for an extended period. My guess is the battery got enough of a charge to start up tomorrow for the trip to Autozone, or wherever, for the slow charge.

So, prior to him pointing out the 'loose metal tumbling sound' in the starter, I was planning on only changing the solenoid contacts/plunger (cheapest fix possible). But it sounds like there is more going on than just bad solenoid contacts and a pitted plunger, correct? I need to order parts ASAP (either a rebuilt starter or solenoid repair kit) so if someone could point me in the right direction, that would be great.

[UCF3]

Yes, it's the starter. AAA left not too long ago and the guy was great. Btw, I found out if the problem is with a AAA battery, they don't ding you a service call. So I got a freebee, woo-hoo.

....

So, prior to him pointing out the 'loose metal tumbling sound' in the starter, I was planning on only changing the solenoid contacts/plunger (cheapest fix possible). But it sounds like there is more going on than just bad solenoid contacts and a pitted plunger, correct? I need to order parts ASAP (either a rebuilt starter or solenoid repair kit) so if someone could point me in the right direction, that would be great.

It is starting to sound like the starter motor, but I'm not definite since I'm not infront of your car. I would replace the starter; a rebuilt starter from Toyota would be my first choice. I'm not much of a fan of rebuilt units sold at NAPA or Autozone unless it's an original Denso. bad experience. THe part from Lexus is expensive, around $200, but Toyota should be able to get something cheaper. provide them with a part number and they can cross-reference.

[prix]

Sorry, I don't understand. Toyota who? Who do I call? Yes, given the noises, I plan to go with an OEM rebuilt. I already have quotes from one online lexus dealer store for $213 (rebuilt OEM starter only...manifold gaskets are extra). Are you saying I can do better than the $213? If so, that would be great!

Yes, it's the starter. AAA left not too long ago and the guy was great. Btw, I found out if the problem is with a AAA battery, they don't ding you a service call. So I got a freebee, woo-hoo.

....

So, prior to him pointing out the 'loose metal tumbling sound' in the starter, I was planning on only changing the solenoid contacts/plunger (cheapest fix possible). But it sounds like there is more going on than just bad solenoid contacts and a pitted plunger, correct? I need to order parts ASAP (either a rebuilt starter or solenoid repair kit) so if someone could point me in the right direction, that would be great.

It is starting to sound like the starter motor, but I'm not definite since I'm not infront of your car. I would replace the starter; a rebuilt starter from Toyota would be my first choice. I'm not much of a fan of rebuilt units sold at NAPA or Autozone unless it's an original Denso. bad experience. THe part from Lexus is expensive, around $200, but Toyota should be able to get something cheaper. provide them with a part number and they can cross-reference.

[UCF3]

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

[curiousB]

He said the battery was discharged because the starter is going out and is pulling too many amps. That, combined with the fact that I was also leaving the car parked for three or more days at a time, or making only short trips to nearby stores, all added up to a battery that was not able to recharge itself. The alternator tested excellent (whew).

This sounds suspicious. Batteries seldom die because the starter motor draws too much current. They simply aren't engaged long enough to make a huge difference. Unless your car has to be crankled several seconds and multiple time to start up each time I doubt this "theory".

I would still check the wiring. I don't believe your friendly AAA man is a professional mechanic so you shouldn't take his word as gospel.

You still might need a new starter but its not obvious from this diagnosis.

[prix]

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight.

The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again.

Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

[prix]

Thanks, I actually share your skepticism at this point. I plan to watch the battery (get another test in a few days) to see whether it's losing charge. Talked to AAA again tonight, and they said the battery testers are fairly sophisticated and can show if there is some kind of extra drain going on. I may have two issues (wiring and starter).

With the sound that I described (loose rattly noise when the starter kicks over) doesn't that mean I have a bad starter? Can you think of any other explanation for the noise?

He said the battery was discharged because the starter is going out and is pulling too many amps. That, combined with the fact that I was also leaving the car parked for three or more days at a time, or making only short trips to nearby stores, all added up to a battery that was not able to recharge itself. The alternator tested excellent (whew).

This sounds suspicious. Batteries seldom die because the starter motor draws too much current. They simply aren't engaged long enough to make a huge difference. Unless your car has to be crankled several seconds and multiple time to start up each time I doubt this "theory".

I would still check the wiring. I don't believe your friendly AAA man is a professional mechanic so you shouldn't take his word as gospel.

You still might need a new starter but its not obvious from this diagnosis.

[prix]

Awesome! I will make some calls tomorrow. The variation in price on these parts is shocking. One store wanted almost $400 for solenoid contacts (2), plunger (1), air surge gaskets (4) and intake manifold gaskets (2). I'm no longer thinking of going that route (replacing contacts) but still, parts pricing is a real eye opener. Caveat emptor.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

[UCF3]

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight.

The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again.

Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

No, the key should not be hot. The key can be warm after extensive driving during summer. It's a possibility some parts of your engine bay is overheating or there's an electric discharge along the line but I am only speculating.

Let's work on the starter issue. Now, i've read what CuriousB mentioned about the AAA guy and the starter. He's right, the starter isn't engaged long enough to draw too many amps. I wonder if the AAA guy was trying to say alternator instead of starter, which is designed to draw and expel electrical current to and from the battery. That was going to be my third troubleshooting tip, replacement of the alternator, but before you do that see if your new battery has lost charge; that's one of a few clear indicators your alternator is defective.

So before you buy a new starter and the alternator, I would test the battery again. The Autozone and Advanced Auto guys have tester you can use or just ask them to run a diagnostic. A proper test includes testing with the headlights on, reving the engine and a couple of other things I can't recall of the top of my head. The final reading should indicate what device is going or gone bad.

I hope it's just the battery that's defective.

[prix]

Thanks! The key thing...just something I've noticed (it's not so hot that I could light a cancer stick with it). I'll keep an eye on it and maybe do some more online research when I have the time.

The AAA battery tech did run a full 'test', where he did all kinds of things, including revving the engine, etc. Based on the printout he gave me, the starter cranking test is 'normal' w/voltage at 10.560; replacing the battery was 'recommended'(but since it's less than a year old, the tech said it was highly likely the battery was rechargeable, and that if I got a slow charge on it and he came back a week later and reran the test, that he would get a good reading); and the 'charging system test' came back 'no problems'. 'No load' was at 14.160 and loaded was at '14.120'. Ripple (I have no idea what that is) was 70h0(??). The latter is hard to read. I'll give it some time, then take the car in to a shop for another full testing on the battery and alternator in a few days.

In the meantime, I'll continue to track down the best starter price/source, in case I need (pretty sure I will). Will post back when I have more info...

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight.

The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again.

Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

No, the key should not be hot. The key can be warm after extensive driving during summer. It's a possibility some parts of your engine bay is overheating or there's an electric discharge along the line but I am only speculating.

Let's work on the starter issue. Now, i've read what CuriousB mentioned about the AAA guy and the starter. He's right, the starter isn't engaged long enough to draw too many amps. I wonder if the AAA guy was trying to say alternator instead of starter, which is designed to draw and expel electrical current to and from the battery. That was going to be my third troubleshooting tip, replacement of the alternator, but before you do that see if your new battery has lost charge; that's one of a few clear indicators your alternator is defective.

So before you buy a new starter and the alternator, I would test the battery again. The Autozone and Advanced Auto guys have tester you can use or just ask them to run a diagnostic. A proper test includes testing with the headlights on, reving the engine and a couple of other things I can't recall of the top of my head. The final reading should indicate what device is going or gone bad.

I hope it's just the battery that's defective.

[prix]

Thought I would add an update: Took the car to Autozone today and they retested the battery, which showed it is at 84%. Four days ago, they gave me a 'fast charge' and brought it up to 100%. Is this normal to lose 16% in four days? On the 23rd, I had asked for a 'slow charge' (AAA told me to get this done), but for whatever reason they put it on a fast charge. Does a fast charge hold as long as a slow charge? I was not happy that they did not do what I asked, but whatever. They were incredibly busy and I think just wanted to get my little project done as fast as possible. Wondering if it would help to go someplace else and get the 2 hour slow charge. If the battery continues to lose charge at this rate, there could be something else going on...a slow drain on the battery cause by something shorting out, etc.

I also got a quote on rebuilding my existing starter for $95 dollars (I am moving forward with getting estimates and lining up a shop just in case the starter is the problem...it's working fine for now, btw). I was told they would do a complete rebuild on the starter for that price.

[landar]

Could the mechanic also rebuild the starter or is he not familiar with them? The reason I ask this is because you are going to have a little logistic issue having him remove the existing starter and waiting for the rebuilding shop to complete the rebuild. If you have the mechanic do the rebuild (again, if qualified), you put the onus on him to do the complete job correctly. If, by chance, the whole job is done and the starter wont whirl, it is his responsibility and (hopefully) warranted by him. If the rebuild shop screws up, he charges you again for labor.

At the very least, the mechanic should perform a "sanity" test of the rebuilt starter before proceeding with the install. So, just some things to ponder...as if you needed more... (I know you are agonizing over this issue enough already).

How much is the independent mechanic going to charge for the starter removal and replacement if you supply the parts?

[prix]

I've pretty much got things lined up for a starter replacement at this point (most of the teeth gnashing is over). They will do the starter rebuild and the removal/install, so the onus is on them if the part fails. It's a starter/alternator specialty shop that has a 40 year track record. They work on all makes/models of cars and didn't blink when I said it was an LS400. I can get it all done for just under $300, which is a great deal. Warranty is 1 year on labor and 4 years on the part. As I said, the car is starting up fine for now. I am not hearing any weird starter noises like I did the night AAA was out. Famous last words.

The remaining mystery is the battery. Remember, when this all started, the battery tested fine, which is why AAA said it's probably the starter (that and because tapping in the engine area caused it to start). Then three days later, the battery was dead, possibly for a combination of reasons: I had not driven the car much in weeks; the night weather had turned colder; and I had repeatedly tried to start the car over a period of days. AAA told me to go get a two hour slow charge the next morning. AutoZone instead gave me a fast charge and brought it up to 100%. Yesterday (four days later), when they retested it, it had lost 16% of its charge (in four days).

I plan to take the car in after another four days or so to a service station that I have been referred to. If the battery shows further discharge, they I will have them do the slow charge. Then another retest after a week or so to see whether it's holding the slow charge. If it isn't, then it's time to track down a short or electrical problem or some other reason the battery is being drained. If there is no obvious connection or electrical problem, then time to try a new battery.

This battery is only about 9 months old. This is my second AAA battery. The first one had to be replaced at about 2 years 9 months. My old battery (it may have been a Sears...not sure) lasted five years!

Could the mechanic also rebuild the starter or is he not familiar with them? The reason I ask this is because you are going to have a little logistic issue having him remove the existing starter and waiting for the rebuilding shop to complete the rebuild. If you have the mechanic do the rebuild (again, if qualified), you put the onus on him to do the complete job correctly. If, by chance, the whole job is done and the starter wont whirl, it is his responsibility and (hopefully) warranted by him. If the rebuild shop screws up, he charges you again for labor.

At the very least, the mechanic should perform a "sanity" test of the rebuilt starter before proceeding with the install. So, just some things to ponder...as if you needed more... (I know you are agonizing over this issue enough already).

How much is the independent mechanic going to charge for the starter removal and replacement if you supply the parts?

[landar]

I've pretty much got things lined up for a starter replacement at this point (most of the teeth gnashing is over).

You don't know how bad of a pun that line really is (teeth gnashing with a starter topic).

If the total replacement with rebuild is $300, that is extremely reasonable. Especially if done by competent mechanics, which it sounds like you have found.

You may have gotten a bad battery. It is not good to let lead acid batteries run down. It really shortens their life expectancy. Based upon your earlier post, it sounds like the charging system is good. BTW, all batteries come from about 3 different suppliers so there is really not that much of a difference. They are just relabeled and given different warranties.

Lastly, don't worry about the "slow" charge, "fast" charge issue you are being fed. Your cars charging system is designed to do the correct job if you just drive it for a half-hour to hour and keep using it on a regular basis.

[prix]

I really didn't have a bad pun in mind when I said that. Ha ha.

It's a relief to have a gameplan, for if/when it the starter goes. The only reason I am not more suspicious of the price (it's a very good deal) is due to the number of years he's been in business and the fact that the mechanic who will be doing the work has been with him from 'day one'. Plus the warranty. His online reviews are very very good and seem to have been written by actual customers.

Did not know that about battery makers...it's probably the same for every other product on the planet, come to think of it. Good to know about fast v. slow charge. I am at the mercy of whatever the person tells me. Hopefully (at some point) I will have a base of knowledge to be able to reach my own conclusions. I've been picking up a lot of good info lately (online)...reading and studying. I can see why people become DIYers...saves money and sounds like a bit of fun (when the 'fix' actually works, that is).

Hopefully, no more teeth gnashing, from either me or the starter. :-). I will post back w/any new info. Thanks!!

I've pretty much got things lined up for a starter replacement at this point (most of the teeth gnashing is over).

You don't know how bad of a pun that line really is (teeth gnashing with a starter topic).

If the total replacement with rebuild is $300, that is extremely reasonable. Especially if done by competent mechanics, which it sounds like you have found.

You may have gotten a bad battery. It is not good to let lead acid batteries run down. It really shortens their life expectancy. Based upon your earlier post, it sounds like the charging system is good. BTW, all batteries come from about 3 different suppliers so there is really not that much of a difference. They are just relabeled and given different warranties.

Lastly, don't worry about the "slow" charge, "fast" charge issue you are being fed. Your cars charging system is designed to do the correct job if you just drive it for a half-hour to hour and keep using it on a regular basis.

[jaswood]

Thanks! The key thing...just something I've noticed (it's not so hot that I could light a cancer stick with it). I'll keep an eye on it and maybe do some more online research when I have the time.

The AAA battery tech did run a full 'test', where he did all kinds of things, including revving the engine, etc. Based on the printout he gave me, the starter cranking test is 'normal' w/voltage at 10.560; replacing the battery was 'recommended'(but since it's less than a year old, the tech said it was highly likely the battery was rechargeable, and that if I got a slow charge on it and he came back a week later and reran the test, that he would get a good reading); and the 'charging system test' came back 'no problems'. 'No load' was at 14.160 and loaded was at '14.120'. Ripple (I have no idea what that is) was 70h0(??). The latter is hard to read. I'll give it some time, then take the car in to a shop for another full testing on the battery and alternator in a few days.

In the meantime, I'll continue to track down the best starter price/source, in case I need (pretty sure I will). Will post back when I have more info...

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight.

The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again.

Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

No, the key should not be hot. The key can be warm after extensive driving during summer. It's a possibility some parts of your engine bay is overheating or there's an electric discharge along the line but I am only speculating.

Let's work on the starter issue. Now, i've read what CuriousB mentioned about the AAA guy and the starter. He's right, the starter isn't engaged long enough to draw too many amps. I wonder if the AAA guy was trying to say alternator instead of starter, which is designed to draw and expel electrical current to and from the battery. That was going to be my third troubleshooting tip, replacement of the alternator, but before you do that see if your new battery has lost charge; that's one of a few clear indicators your alternator is defective.

So before you buy a new starter and the alternator, I would test the battery again. The Autozone and Advanced Auto guys have tester you can use or just ask them to run a diagnostic. A proper test includes testing with the headlights on, reving the engine and a couple of other things I can't recall of the top of my head. The final reading should indicate what device is going or gone bad.

I hope it's just the battery that's defective.

If the 85% charge resulted in adequate engine start, starter, operation then leave it at that. The higher level you keep the battery charged the shorter its service life will be. For that very reason I don't think modern day automotive, aletrnator, battery charging systems are designed to keep the battery "topped off". My '01 Porsche C4 ALWAYS starts, but much quicker, higher rate of starter motor "turn-over" if I have just topped off the charge with an external charger.

[prix]

Good to know! Tx. Yes, I got a good start off the 84%. Looks like the only thing left is to have it retested in a week or so to make sure it's not losing more (like another 15%).

Thanks! The key thing...just something I've noticed (it's not so hot that I could light a cancer stick with it). I'll keep an eye on it and maybe do some more online research when I have the time.

The AAA battery tech did run a full 'test', where he did all kinds of things, including revving the engine, etc. Based on the printout he gave me, the starter cranking test is 'normal' w/voltage at 10.560; replacing the battery was 'recommended'(but since it's less than a year old, the tech said it was highly likely the battery was rechargeable, and that if I got a slow charge on it and he came back a week later and reran the test, that he would get a good reading); and the 'charging system test' came back 'no problems'. 'No load' was at 14.160 and loaded was at '14.120'. Ripple (I have no idea what that is) was 70h0(??). The latter is hard to read. I'll give it some time, then take the car in to a shop for another full testing on the battery and alternator in a few days.

In the meantime, I'll continue to track down the best starter price/source, in case I need (pretty sure I will). Will post back when I have more info...

Hi, yes, I had that done this morning when I was at Autozone getting the charge. They loaned me a wire brush and I scrubbed out the interiors of the cable ends (the o-shape that fits over the battery posts) and they also scrubbed the posts themselves before putting it the charger. It tested at only a 65% charge, so yes, it needed charging. It probably would have had much less than 65% had I not gone for that drive last night. I got some help and he used a 10mm socket wrench to really tighten the terminals (I watched to make sure). So everything is clean and on there really tight.

The starter was fine this morning, and even sounded normal. But as the day wore on the second and third time I started it (a total of five times today, if I am not mistaken), I thought I heard the loose brushing sound again.

Is it normal for the ignition key to be 'hot' when you first remove it after extensive around town driving? The car was in use a good four hours. After removing the key, I noticed the heat...not red not exactly, but fairly toasty.

In a way, yes. you should be able to get a better price from a Toyota parts store. Provide them with your VIN and the Part # from the Online retailer, just in-case they ask for it, and they should be able to help you. Since Lexus vehicles are upper-scale Toyotas they share similar parts. As for the manifold gasket whoever is replacing the existing starter with the new one should determine if it's needed or not.

BTW I don't think you responded to my original query. Did you tighten-down the positive and negative terminal nuts?

No, the key should not be hot. The key can be warm after extensive driving during summer. It's a possibility some parts of your engine bay is overheating or there's an electric discharge along the line but I am only speculating.

Let's work on the starter issue. Now, i've read what CuriousB mentioned about the AAA guy and the starter. He's right, the starter isn't engaged long enough to draw too many amps. I wonder if the AAA guy was trying to say alternator instead of starter, which is designed to draw and expel electrical current to and from the battery. That was going to be my third troubleshooting tip, replacement of the alternator, but before you do that see if your new battery has lost charge; that's one of a few clear indicators your alternator is defective.

So before you buy a new starter and the alternator, I would test the battery again. The Autozone and Advanced Auto guys have tester you can use or just ask them to run a diagnostic. A proper test includes testing with the headlights on, reving the engine and a couple of other things I can't recall of the top of my head. The final reading should indicate what device is going or gone bad.

I hope it's just the battery that's defective.

If the 85% charge resulted in adequate engine start, starter, operation then leave it at that. The higher level you keep the battery charged the shorter its service life will be. For that very reason I don't think modern day automotive, aletrnator, battery charging systems are designed to keep the battery "topped off". My '01 Porsche C4 ALWAYS starts, but much quicker, higher rate of starter motor "turn-over" if I have just topped off the charge with an external charger.