Timing Belt

[will p]

I have a 1999 LS-400 with 132,000 miles. The timing belt has never been changed. I could find nothing in the owners manual specifying when to change the timing belt. Does my car need to change the timing belt and how often?

Thanks

[curiousB]

I have a 1999 LS-400 with 132,000 miles. The timing belt has never been changed. I could find nothing in the owners manual specifying when to change the timing belt. Does my car need to change the timing belt and how often?

Thanks

Every 90k miles, you're long overdue.

[90LS400Lexus]

I have a 1999 LS-400 with 132,000 miles. The timing belt has never been changed. I could find nothing in the owners manual specifying when to change the timing belt. Does my car need to change the timing belt and how often?

Thanks

Every 90k miles, you're long overdue.

Definitely, especially on that engine.... (interference engine). With it being 10 years old and having 132K, I would change it tomorrow!

Hope it dont break! The 90-94s its not as critical, as its a non-interference engine, but I would not play games with the 99 VVT-i engine. This was one reason I sold my old 00' Tundra 4.7L V8. It had 103K, original timing belt and at the time, I could not afford a new one. :(

[oldskewel]

Has anyone heard of a T-belt breaking on one of these cars? If so, what mileage, etc.?

Not that I'm doubting the 90k, I just want to know how conservative it is. Also, on my 1991 gen 1, with the non-interference engine, it seems I don't need to be as cautious as the 95+ cars.

How about stories of other T-belt related parts failing (or not), to help decide what should be replaced during the T-belt change?

Water pump

idler #1

idler #2

tensioner

seals

Here's one data point from my car:

Water pump failure at 122k.

1991 LS400, all dealer maintained (by PO) through a T-belt change at 90k: replaced the belt, tensioner, idlers, etc., but NOT THE WATER PUMP.

At 122k, the water pump failed, leading to a second T-belt change, with belt, tensioner, idlers, etc.

Since I'm asking so many new questions, here's another: any actual experiences with non-OEM vs. OEM parts?

I'm not really looking for "advice" (e.g., I know you can't go wrong by using OEM parts at the specified intervals and replacing everything you touch), but rather information about incidents of actual failures or unusually long duration without failure.

[90LS400Lexus]

Not sure. As mentioned, I had 106K on my Toyota Tundra on the original belt and it was recommended to be changed at 90K. I would go over 10-15K, but no more than that.... not on an interference engine. Thats why I sold the Tundra. I could not afford a t-belt change at the time and it was way overdue. Now I regret selling it.

THEN, my dad had a 1988 Nissan truck with the 3.0L V6. My uncle had bought it brand new in February of 1988 and he never changed it. My dad bought it from him in April 1999. It had 203,000 miles at that point... on the original timing belt! :o Dad changed it posthaste and needless to say, it was intact, but it was paper thin!

[curiousB]

Has anyone heard of a T-belt breaking on one of these cars? If so, what mileage, etc.?

I doesn't sound that common. Either Lexus owners are diligent about this service or the life of the belt is much longer than the recommended service interval. You'd think with all the chatter about Tbelts there would be a good number of folks with horror stories yet they seem few. Given the damage to an interference engine it seems to be prudent to make the change. I have wondered if the failure mode is a snapping belt or just the teeth snapping off and the belt jumping (slipping ahead a few notches) out of timing.

[SRK]

I've seen and repaired all three failure modes - on a different brand however. Volvo OHC's can seize the camshaft in the head, and the teeth peel off the belt, leaving a "no drive" area. Non interference. Later Volvo's with the sixteen valve interference engines will snap the belt in two, and the valves, valve guides, and pistons will be damaged. Basically throw the engine away. Marine Volvo's will get salt water corrosion on the intermediate shaft gear, that will cause a nasty rust build-up, and the belt slips a cog or two. At three the engine stops.

Damn Volvos will do it all.

On most engines, assuming the idler pulleys don't seize the belt will just snap when very old. A seized idler or tensioner pulley will cause the flat side of the belt to wear excessively quickly, and the belt will then snap - and before the change interval. That's why it's good to do it when advised, and to check or replace the idlers as needed.

[90LS400Lexus]

I've seen and repaired all three failure modes - on a different brand however. Volvo OHC's can seize the camshaft in the head, and the teeth peel off the belt, leaving a "no drive" area. Non interference. Later Volvo's with the sixteen valve interference engines will snap the belt in two, and the valves, valve guides, and pistons will be damaged. Basically throw the engine away. Marine Volvo's will get salt water corrosion on the intermediate shaft gear, that will cause a nasty rust build-up, and the belt slips a cog or two. At three the engine stops.

Damn Volvos will do it all.

On most engines, assuming the idler pulleys don't seize the belt will just snap when very old. A seized idler or tensioner pulley will cause the flat side of the belt to wear excessively quickly, and the belt will then snap - and before the change interval. That's why it's good to do it when advised, and to check or replace the idlers as needed.

My uncle had a 1986 Volvo 240 wagon (2.4L) that had a timing belt snap and he put on a new one and it was fine. Ever had experience with those? Someone once said it was an interference engine, but apparently not?

[SRK]

That would be the 2.3 litre, if it was the gas engine. They were non-interference engines. Only the 24 valve 2.3 was interference. Strange how so many of the aftermarket publications did list it as interference, and it was confusing for many folks.

I did so many t-belts on those engines that I got quite fast at it, although they were very easy compared to the Lexus. Best time on the 2.3 was 14 minutes - finished. Air tools were just flying!

[landar]

Has anyone heard of a T-belt breaking on one of these cars? If so, what mileage, etc.?

Since I'm asking so many new questions, here's another: any actual experiences with non-OEM vs. OEM parts?

I'm not really looking for "advice" (e.g., I know you can't go wrong by using OEM parts at the specified intervals and replacing everything you touch), but rather information about incidents of actual failures or unusually long duration without failure.

I saw a 98 LS400 with 185k miles on Craigslist and the owner said it had a broken T-belt. It looked very nice but was priced

around $2k because the engine was damaged. I would have bought it but was already sold.

How many miles someone might get depends upon many factors, not the least being how much of a lead foot one has.

It is rough on internal engine parts to keep high revs and aggressive acceleration. That being said, the LS is one durable engine and

not easily broken.

Concerning OEM vs. aftermarket(ie: Chinese parts)..ONLY go with Toyota OEM. Too much on the line to risk it. I dont have any Lexus stories on this but a friend

recently had his original Ford Escort belt replaced(at an Indy) with an aftermarket belt. The new belt only lasted 40k miles before failing(should have

lasted 60k). It totally trashed his engine. To be honest, I don't know if his water pump or tensioners siezed(which would not be the belt's fault) but he did "gamble" on the cheaper belt to save a few bucks.

[RDM]

My 1992 had the original timing belt when I bought it with 161k. I had planned to do it when I had time and at 180k the water pump locked up, forcing me to do it sooner.

I went ahead and did:

timing belt

water pump

idler pulley

tensioner pulley

hydraulic tensioner

crank seal

cam seals

valve cover gaskets/spark plug tube gaskets

thermostat

water outlet gasket

distributor caps/rotors

plugs/wires

PCV valve

I also had the intake manifold, plenum, throttle body, and valve covers hot tanked.

Parts weren't bad, labor was surprisingly easy (I'm a 10yr Nissan tech). I also flushed the radiator and the block and replaced a ton of water hoses that were brittle as hell, and bypassed the coolant to the TB. Finally I deleted the EGR and all associated emissions BS.

Though it's rare, the water pump is a serious issue if you're driving. Mine went out in the driveway, right after starting it. I got lucky.

[90LS400Lexus]

That would be the 2.3 litre, if it was the gas engine. They were non-interference engines. Only the 24 valve 2.3 was interference. Strange how so many of the aftermarket publications did list it as interference, and it was confusing for many folks.

I did so many t-belts on those engines that I got quite fast at it, although they were very easy compared to the Lexus. Best time on the 2.3 was 14 minutes - finished. Air tools were just flying!

You are right SRK... it was the 2.3L gas engine. I read alot too online about it being listed as an interference engine, but it didnt damage the engine when it broke, so I thought that was odd. What you mentioned explained it.

14 minutes... WOW.... that was fast for a t-belt change. I dont know how long it took my uncle to change it on his 86' wagon. It had 267K and was still a perfect running car and I remember the tranny shifted so smoothly. The car would probably still be running today, except one day when he was going to work he had took a well-known to him back road in the country and rounded the corner and a large tree had fallen... it trashed the front steering/suspension and he thought it did too much damage to repair. That was about 10 years ago.

He also had a 1981 Volvo sedan about 8 years ago, excellent interior and body, but the car had a terrible time running... there was something wrong with the fuel system. He never did get it trunning right. We have a family friend that specializes in Volvo repairs, but body work and mechanical work on all cars... especially Toyota Lexus Honda and Mercedes. He said that the older Volvos has to be some of the easiest cars to work on, but he has done it for years. Hes pretty wealthy, but still drives nothing but 1980s Volvos. :)

[kbconv]

on my 93, I follow the 90,000 rule, sort of. Previous owner did and I was forced to have someone change mine after the water pump went out at 180,000. I had them do the tensioners and stuff but am now wondering if they did the cam seals.

Being a non interference engine I wouldn't worry about going 10 or 20,000 miles over if no oil in timing belt area, I just don't care to get stuck in the middle of nowhere some night. Also, I would say there is a very slim chance of the belt wedging around a cam pulley, locking it up and hurting some valves.

My dad ran his 1996 Acura RL up to 160,000 before changing his, luckily a water pump forced him to replace it. Odd thing is I think Acura list 60,000 mile replacements, maybe because it's an interference engine. (Do they build that much leeway into the int. engines schedules?)

[AZ Mike]

Cheap insurance. Why risk killing the engine? My '99 only had a little over 60k miles, but was well past the 6 year interval, so I went ahead and replaced timing belt, water pump, idler pulleys, serpentine belt, etc. last December. It was not an easy job, but very do-able for someone with minimal wrench turning skills. How did the old belt look? Definitely not new, with edges of teeth rounded off a bit, but didn't look horrible. But, the thought in the back of my mind that I was overdue and that if the timing belt snapped my engine would be toast nagged me. So, I have new parts and peace of mind, and do not need to worry about it for another 6 years.