'97 Es 300 - O2 Sensors Problem

[Tobias]

My reliable '97 Lexus is in trouble. Took it to my local indy shop that has done great work in the past. Check engine light came on codes indication O2 sensors were bad (both).

They called me yesterday to say the new O2 sensors shorted out, check engine light is back on and the engine is not running properly. They hinted around that the ECM might have been damaged.

Oh my God. What do I do now???

I believe they installed the O2 sensors incorrectly. What should I tell them or what should I do?

This car has been great and only has 140K miles on it.

[camlex]

Never heard ECM get shorted. what was code first time, and now?

[blk_on_blk]

What you do is start asking questions...

1) So what exactly happened? Are they SURE the new O2 sensors shorted out?

2) How did this happen? What did they do to have this happen? This isn't normal... something must have happened to cause them to short out?

3) Have they tested the O2 sensors for proper function at this point? Are they sure the sensors are shorted? Do they have some other sensors they can put in to test and check for functionality? Perhaps the sensors are not bad and it's the ECU that is giving problems (it seems strange that both sensors go out at the same time).

4) Be sure to let them know you brought in your car only to have the sensor issue fixed, and that's what you expect to pay for... O2 sensor replacement, unless they can determine there was another problem from the start. You aren't going to pay for 'new' problems that happened as they worked on the vehicle.

All in all, they need to do some work to find out what happened on their end to find out why they shorted out the new sensors. Were the old sensors truly bad? Were they shorted? If not, then it was working fine and THEY shorted something out upon install.

One thing to remember, be polite... be firm... be "the customer" in that you brought it in for a job, and now they did something that is causing more problems. Make a clear effort to 'work with them'... not just demand from them, but not also just give in to what they say. It's a partnership to work with them to find the best resolution. Your vehicle could have had an ECU problem and not the sensors (again, both failing at the same time is strange). Work with them to find the root cause... but don't let them start replacing things expecting that you'll pay for what ever they want to try. Explain to them they need to do their work and truly pinpoint what is going on before just replacing parts.

Good luck!

PS, our shop has heard of ECU's going out... sometimes they just need to be reflashed, other times replaced.

[Tobias]

What you do is start asking questions...

1) So what exactly happened? Are they SURE the new O2 sensors shorted out?

2) How did this happen? What did they do to have this happen? This isn't normal... something must have happened to cause them to short out?

3) Have they tested the O2 sensors for proper function at this point? Are they sure the sensors are shorted? Do they have some other sensors they can put in to test and check for functionality? Perhaps the sensors are not bad and it's the ECU that is giving problems (it seems strange that both sensors go out at the same time).

4) Be sure to let them know you brought in your car only to have the sensor issue fixed, and that's what you expect to pay for... O2 sensor replacement, unless they can determine there was another problem from the start. You aren't going to pay for 'new' problems that happened as they worked on the vehicle.

All in all, they need to do some work to find out what happened on their end to find out why they shorted out the new sensors. Were the old sensors truly bad? Were they shorted? If not, then it was working fine and THEY shorted something out upon install.

One thing to remember, be polite... be firm... be "the customer" in that you brought it in for a job, and now they did something that is causing more problems. Make a clear effort to 'work with them'... not just demand from them, but not also just give in to what they say. It's a partnership to work with them to find the best resolution. Your vehicle could have had an ECU problem and not the sensors (again, both failing at the same time is strange). Work with them to find the root cause... but don't let them start replacing things expecting that you'll pay for what ever they want to try. Explain to them they need to do their work and truly pinpoint what is going on before just replacing parts.

Good luck!

PS, our shop has heard of ECU's going out... sometimes they just need to be reflashed, other times replaced.

[Tobias]

What you do is start asking questions...

1) So what exactly happened? Are they SURE the new O2 sensors shorted out?

2) How did this happen? What did they do to have this happen? This isn't normal... something must have happened to cause them to short out?

3) Have they tested the O2 sensors for proper function at this point? Are they sure the sensors are shorted? Do they have some other sensors they can put in to test and check for functionality? Perhaps the sensors are not bad and it's the ECU that is giving problems (it seems strange that both sensors go out at the same time).

4) Be sure to let them know you brought in your car only to have the sensor issue fixed, and that's what you expect to pay for... O2 sensor replacement, unless they can determine there was another problem from the start. You aren't going to pay for 'new' problems that happened as they worked on the vehicle.

All in all, they need to do some work to find out what happened on their end to find out why they shorted out the new sensors. Were the old sensors truly bad? Were they shorted? If not, then it was working fine and THEY shorted something out upon install.

One thing to remember, be polite... be firm... be "the customer" in that you brought it in for a job, and now they did something that is causing more problems. Make a clear effort to 'work with them'... not just demand from them, but not also just give in to what they say. It's a partnership to work with them to find the best resolution. Your vehicle could have had an ECU problem and not the sensors (again, both failing at the same time is strange). Work with them to find the root cause... but don't let them start replacing things expecting that you'll pay for what ever they want to try. Explain to them they need to do their work and truly pinpoint what is going on before just replacing parts.

Good luck!

PS, our shop has heard of ECU's going out... sometimes they just need to be reflashed, other times replaced.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will discuss this in the structure you recommend.

[stcist2]

are these 4 wire heated sensors? usually if they both are an issue at the same time its usually the heaters as they are on the same circuit .. it would be pretty hard to incorrectly install the correct sensors, unless they were a universal style that required attatching the old plug, where human error could be a possibility.... the other possibility is the ECM..or the engine ground or the 5 volt reference signal or,or,or...