jeffsstuff

Get used to it, and its not just Lexus that does it. Sometime soon the DOT will make these lockouts law, and everybody will have to fall in line.

Lexus has been making the same navigation system with the same lockouts since 1998, this is not new. Its heralded as the best in the business by tons of publications too.

Like I said in another thread, I've had this nav system for 4 years and I don't get it. Just set your destination before you leave or pull over. You don't need to be careening down the highway at 85MPH setting destinations anyways. I drive 25k miles a year and use the nav system extensively, it no longer bothers me.

Maybe they will become law someday. Still, at that point consumers won't be tricked into buying something that only works WHEN THE MANUFACTURER FEELS LIKE ALLOWING IT!

I've scanned this thread reading a number of complaints including a few from some saying it's the worst car they've ever owned yet they continue to drive it since they're not willing to take the depreciation hit. I've read and seen many rediculous things of late but think this is quite humorous. Nearly everyone of us can afford to do many things in life that most are unable to do and one is to be able to purchase vehicles that are in this category. If I had something that I totally hated, I would not even think twice about the money forfeited in rididng my self of the problem rather than having to wake up everyday and have to deal with it simply over several thousand dollars.

I dare any of you cry babies to show me a vehicle in a similar price range to the LS460 and I'll quickly find a group of whiners much like the ones on this thread that complain about every little thing. Life is short and for those that obviously don't realize that perfection will never be found in an automobile, will just continue to feel that need to share their unhappiness with all.

Standing ovation for you sir! Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

I'm sorry but, by your logic, if I sell you a box marked "Blu Ray Player" and you get home and find out that it only plays movies on thursdays, you wouldn't expect your money back. After all, I sold you a player. You could just eat your loss and go buy another one. You could have simply tried EVERY FEATURE at the store to make sure it worked.

The problem for me and over a thousand others who have complained at www.lexusisnotmymother.com didn't know there was an issue to ask about. We never thought to ask if the system was crippled. Why? For the same reason that we never bothered to ask if we could drive the car on Sundays. We never thought there would be anything so unexpected in that box we bought.

If you don't like listening to us "cry babies", please, do us and yourself a favor and STOP LISTENING. But don't tell us what we should and should not expect from our consumer products. After all, it is attitudes like yours that allow quality and service to keep spiraling down the toilet.

Ditto Steve...jeff your posts are getting boring. In life we accept or reject. Obviously, give up the 350/bumper sticker and move on. A better man for it. I, for one, wish you the best and keep fighting for what you believe in.

First, I was mislead by the salesman (as were many). Many were not told of the issue until after the sale like myself. Others were outright lied to (told that an override existed when in fact it had been removed).

As to the bumper sticker, it is not childish. Here is why. Everytime someone sees it and takes the time to visit the website, they learn something. They might not care about this issue. If once they read about it, they still chose to buy the car, then they are at least doing so with all the facts. However, consider that over half of the people on that site would not have purchased the car had they known about the issue (like myself), it may well cause people to chose a different vehicle.

I am not going to get rid of a car that is six months old. I would lose too much money on the deal. This issue will however cost Lexus much more than they made on the sale. I've already cost them that much just by virtue of the people I talked out of buying cars because of this issue and more importantly, the heavy-handed way they have treated us. Customers were lied to and the company's only response is to, in essence say, "too bad".

If I am boring you, please don't read my posts anymore. In the coming months, I will be even more vocal (just in more visible places than this). I have had issues with companies behaving badly in the past. With some persistence, I have prevailed every single time. This time will be no exception. Many people would just "except" as you put it. They would give up and give in. I am not like that. I feel that I am right and they are wrong. I will not give up until I am either compensated for the cost of the system or given a patch to remove the restriction.

As Mr. Bates has already received a full rebate, the precedent is already set. If I have to, I will make this a legal issue. I'd rather avoid that but I'd rather make money for some lawyer then give in.

That is my final word on the issue (at least here)

...As to Nav...you can add or change addresses and routes via the voice at anytime while in motion. Are you guys reading the manuals?

Sorry, but I use voice recognition every day (I am using it to type this as a matter of fact). Still, the voice recognition in my Lexus is just about unusable. It only understands one way of doing something. In other words, I have to say "volume up" and not "turn up the volume" or "raise the volume".

Between the inaccuracy of the system and having to memorize the commands, it is useless to me.

...I dont like the lock outs but like the manager SW03ES said and I agree with, a petition or class action is not going to make it change.

Perhaps not but if they lose enough sales to their competitors they will be forced to reconsider. I personally have told dozens of people who were thinking about Lexus and in the end, they bought other vehicles. Audi doesn't do this (When I told the local Audi dealer, he was quite excited to be able to use this as a sales tool). BMW doesn't do this. To the best of my knowledge, most other vehicles don't either. I make my feelings known with my wallet. I simply won't buy from Lexus / Toyota again. They lost me and dozens of others because of this one sale (and more importantly, the way they treated me when I complained).

Honestly...you do get used to it.

Sorry, but i've had my piece of crap (I mean Lexus) for six months now and I still hate it!

Had I know about this before I bought it, I never would have purchased this vehicle.

I currently have a bumper sticker on my car that reads:

I'll NEVER buy another Lexus

LexusIsNotMyMother.com

The bumper sticker is especially popular when I drive by my local Lexus dealer's showroom (less than 5 miles from my home). Once, a new Lexus, obviously out on a test drive, pulled up behind me at a traffic light. The driver pointed at the sticker. It was amazing how fast they got off at the next intersection. I would have loved to hear what the salesman said to defuse that!

The bottom line is, I am ultimately responsible for the safe operation of my car, not Lexus.

I contacted them about a rebate and they sent me a $500 service credit. I recently sent it back, citing the full refund received my Mr. Bates and was basically told to go to hell. I guess my next step will be to contact in writing, everyone I can think of who might help pressure Lexus to help me. This list includes:

Consumer Reports

J D Power

Car Magazines

Consumer groups

Stock Analysts who track automotive stocks

Legal action is an option but I'll save that for a last resort.

If anyone has any suggestions for other people to contact, I'd be very appreciative.

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.

2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.

3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.

4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.

5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

Lexus is not the only carmaker that has this restriction, in fact I can only think of two that don't...maybe 3. BMW, Mercedes, and Acura. Everybody else locks you out.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Don't get mad at me, I didn't design the car. My opinion however is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as you are yours.

Anyways its a moot issue, Lexus has been selling this nav system since 1998 with the same lockouts, and most other manufacturers lock the system out in the same way. They're not going to change.

All I can say is I use the system daily, I drive 2k miles a month and I've had the car over 4 years and SOMEHOW I've survived only programming destinations when stopped.

Thanks for the info. It seems clear that my next vehicle will be one of the ones you mentioned (BMW, Acura or Mercedes). My wife is looking to get a new car next year. I guess we know where to look now.

As to your opinion, I agree, you are entitled to it. I just object to people telling me that I shouldn't want this feature. The dealer did not disclose the limitation before the sale (they set it up before you go, showing all the features. They never mention that none of it works when driving). My Garmin Nuvi ($500) doesn't stop me from using it. I certainly prefer it to the crippled system that Lexus sold me.

The bottom line is, why should Lexus tell me how to use MY CAR? They don't do anything to keep me from driving 100+ MPH down the road. That by the way is illegal in the US. Still, they feel the need to restrict what my passengers do while I drive. It's my responsibility to drive the car safely.

Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.

The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

I complained to Lexus about it. They mailed me a $500 service credit because of my lack of satisfaction. They did not fix the problem nor did they apologize for it.

Unless it is fixed, I will never purchase another vehicle from Lexus/Toyota again. Its as simple as that.

Still, if you have the same issue, call Lexus customer service and complain to them. Let them know that you too want compensation for this problem.

If enough of us do it, perhaps they will decide it cheaper to allow us to use our cars the way we want.

I disagree. I think it's self-centered attitudes like YOURS that hurt everyone. All this drama because you have to pull over to program the navigation system??? I bet you're that same jerkoff that runs a red light and cuts me off because he's in such a hurry to get everywhere. This is my THIRD vehicle with a Nav system and they have ALL had lockouts while driving. And somehow I've managed to use it without my head exploding. Rather than starting a riot, maybe you should start your own car company since you know more about satisfying customers than the largest car manufacturer on the planet. I'm going to go to your blog and pee on it.

If this feature is critical to your satisfaction and you managed to get through the entire process of purchasing a car without even checking to make sure it worked to your liking, that's YOUR fault, not Lexus'. Period. The fact that they gave you some cash hoping to shut you up is irrelevant.

But this is, of course, just my opinion. :whistles:

Very well said......I agree with your opinion, completely!

First of all, I never run red lights or cut people off. I am curteous. Of course, you don't sound that way judging from your tone.

Lexus just sent me a $500 service credit for the nav system issue. I guess I'm not the first one who thinks this is significant.

If you don't mind the limitation, thats your business. I mind it.

As to how much research I did, when on a test drive, they had me use the system. They showed me all the features and then we left. They never explained that all those features fail to operate once the car begins to move!

Finally, pulling off the road is more dangerous than having MY PASSENGER input a destination.

The bottom line is, the car company isn't responsible for my safe use of the vehicle. I am! Let me use the car. As I have said before, I can drive the car 100+ MPH. They don't bother to limit that, even though it isn't legal to do so. Yet they limit my use of a system when there are no laws restricting it.

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Actually, in my case, Lexus just called to offer me a $500 service credit to help my satisfaction. So yes, fuming really does help. Of course, what I really want is a car company to make a car to fill its customers needs, not what they want us to have.

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Interesting thread. Only two people have posted that the system is fine and one of them started out by saying that the system was "beyond annoying." Every other poster says he does not like the sytem as is. Such a majority indicates that there is a problem.

Rontenfour has expressed dissatisfaction with his navigation system and the primary thrust of SW03ES is that he should adapt to the system. That has been the exact attitude of General Motors in the past and is one of the reasons I do not do business with them any more. IT IS NOT UP TO THE CUSTOMER TO ADAPT TO THE PRODUCT. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER TO ENSURE THE PRODUCT MEETS THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF THE CUSTOMER! The dustbin of history is replete with failed companies that thought otherwise.

Also Rontenfour's dissatisfaction is NOT incorrect and it cannot be. Indeed no one's dissatisfaction with anything can be wrong or disputed. It is entirely personal, so let it be. Rontenfour and nearly everyone else on this forum do not like the crippling of the nav system underway.

Add me to the list.

I have owned an ES350 for about two weeks and 2,200 miles now. I researched this car extensively before purchasing. I read the ENTIRE IS?50 OWNER"S AND NAVIGATION MANUALs online before buying (I did not find them for the ES350 and figured the nav system would be the same which turned out to be correct). NOT ONE WORD in the manual said anything about the system working any differently underway than at rest. My paper manuals which I have now read in their entirety are the same. If Lexus' intent is to be open and honest about this, why is this information missing? That is an important question.

Like Rontenfour, my salesman demonstrated the nav system for me... in the showroom. Our drive was to test the way the car drove and he did not offer to demonstrate the nav system further aside from letting it show us where we were. At no time whatsoever was any statement made PRIOR to purchase or in the explanation of the systems prior to drive away that the nav system would be different underway than at rest, much less that maybe 80% of its functions would unavailable. Why do you suppose he never mentioned any of this when his knowledge of everything else appeared encyclopedic? I suspect he too understood the unpopularity of Lexus' decision.

I personally was very happy with my Garmin that I moved from car to car. It asked me once if I agreed that it was dangerous to program it underway and shut the heck up and let me do what I wanted thereafter. I bought the Lexus nav system primarily because it was the only way to get the backup camera, without which I thought I eventually would back over or into something, maybe an elephant the rear of the car is so high. Had I known the navigation system would be SO seriously crippled I most definitely would not have bought it. $2,400 for a backup camera without a fully functional nav system is a bit steep considering good backup cameras are available in the aftermarket for far less. Lexus' total silence on an unpopular characteristic makes me suspicious that the omission is intentional.

Some have made reference to the availability of the voice system for changing the destination enroute. Yes, you can go to an address, but all the other eight or ten methods available when stopped are impossible. Also, I found it has not ONCE understood my pronunciation of the street name, even at rest. And according to the observations of countless people over my life, I speak unaccented English a la Walter Kronkite. And that's the way it is, April 17th, 2007.

Some of the crippling is difficult to justify. When driving down the Interstate perhaps you are willing to stay at the NEAREST hotel, but I certainly am not. I want to be able to choose the town around which to search (nicer hotels are in the bigger towns) and to see a list of the hotels there ahead of time and call them to check on availability and price. Picking from a list certainly seems safer to me than pushing icons to see the hotels one by one. Or maybe I prefer Hampton Inns and only want to see them. "Sorry, if we told you that we'd have to kill you." I also agree with Rontenfour that pulling over on the shoulder of a road is dangerous, even on an Interstate, and probably more dangerous than touching the dashboard. I remember the family of seven that was decimated not ten miles from my home a few years ago. The surviving children are now orphans. Indeed, some states appear to agree that pulling over if it is avoidable is dangerous and thus prohibiting hitchhiking.

With about 85% of the miles I've driven since purchase having been with two people in the car, I find the crippling of the nav system under all conditions underway particularly disturbing. With all the talk of the relentless pursuit of perfection, you know they considered the impact on drivers of crippling the nav system even when they had a copilot. Why then did they decide to do nothing about it, particularly when weight sensors in the passenger seat already existed? That is the real question. And other companies consider the acceptance of an on-screen agreement adequate lawsuit protection. So what the heck is up with Lexus? Not all Lexus buyers are so senile they cannot drive and touch the dashboard at the same time. I agree the nav system is crackerjack... when I'm parked.

And one more bit of support for Rontenfour; countless times I have left the house without deciding in what order I would do my errands.

Rather than just complain about all this I did something. I researched extensively on the Net and within a day of my purchase found a way to hack the DVD in the nav system to regain the override available before 6.1 (menu, volume, top left, bottom left, top left, bottom left, override, back). It works fine, but I have learned I lost some voice capability for Bluetooth [this may be incorrect as I delved deeper into the manual tonight]. I am still considering whether the gain was worth the loss. But considering the system understands me for dialing at 70 mph no better than my father without his hearing aids, it does not seem to be such a great loss.

If you want to hack yours, you'll find all the information you need at http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.p...3730&page=3. Start with Black88mx6's post near the bottom of the page, then read through to the end of the thread for a complete explanation for a beginner. I got a good DVD that worked on the first try. Some programmers are now working to enable full functionality enroute without substituting the old file. That would avoid losing any features. You're welcome in advance!

Add to your list the fact that a passenger would be able to input anything safely while the car is in motion. Well, they can't because of this silly limitation.

Please, if the programmers succeed, please let us all know. Also, please, if you would, post your comments to my site at www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs as I am putting together a list to forward to Lexus showing them the extent of the dissatisfaction.

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.

2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.

3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.

4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.

5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.

The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

I called Lexus. I called the dealer. They stonewalled me citing safety issues.

I posted the whole mess to: www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs if you want, post your feelings. I'm going to compile them and forward them to Lexus.

There is also a site called: www.lexusisnotmymother.com or www.lexusnav.com which is doing the same thing.

Lexus customer service said that they would look into the possibility of a rebate of some sort but that under no circumstances will they enable the system when in motion.

Can anyone say "class-action". Any attorneys want to step up and weigh in on this?

We shouldn't need override codes. It should work as advertised. We bought it, we should be able to use it. Period!