Rontenfour

In December, I bought an '07 RX400h with Nav (firmware version 6.1). At the time of my purchase, I was told of the operating limitations imposed on Nav / Phone system use, but my salesman explained that the Voice Command System would by-pass the touch screen restrictions and allow me to operate the system. He also told me that a software hack to get around the touch screen restrictions was available on the internet, but that he wasn't allowed to tell me any more about it.

Now, a month later, I've given up on the Voice Command System. It has yet to correctly recognize a Voice Command from me or any member of my family. For a car that costs this much, that and the lack of a "learning mode" is unexcusable. My Motorola cell phone has Voice Recognition and a learning mode, and it works fine.

I've also unsuccessfully searched for a non-destructive or non-mechanical way of by-passing the Nav / Phone operation restrictions Lexus has programmed into the system. And, I see that I am not alone in this wish.

All this leads me to ask, where is the outrage towards Toyota / Lexus that they sell customers a product that so severely limits the buyer's use of the product?

Where is the outrage towards Toyota / Lexus that these restrictions have forced some into feeling they have no recourse but to cut wires under their dash? These cars cost almost $50k. Why should anyone have to do that to their car?

Doesn't Toyota / Lexus realize that their poorly crafted Voice Command System presents a greater driving distraction and potential liability? A driver trying to use the Voice Command System, without success, is going to be far more distracted and upset than someone who successfully uses the touch screen.

After the Voice Command system in-correctly interpreted my command of "Detour" and displayed all nearby POI / Italian Restaurants, I spent the next 5 minutes (while driving) struggling to delete those unwanted POIs.

I have already complained, loudly, to my dealership about this. I have no intention of stopping until Toyota / Lexus issues a FREE firmware update or fix that permits un-restricted use of the Nav / Phone system.

I also think buyers are entitled to a Voice Recognition system that actually works.

If enough of us raise a big enough stink with Toyota / Lexus about this, we might be able to get the product we want and paid for.

Hi --

I could not agree more, and am equally frustrated with unsatisfactory responses from Lexus. All I want is to be able to (as the front passenger) use all Nav functions while the car is in motion. I, too, have complained to Lexus and the dealership. The Nav system remains (unhappily) unchanged.

Ron

PS to "All" --

I have responses from two local non-Lexus dealerships which confirm that they have "Full Navigation System Function" while the car is in motion.

I have read indications here suggesting that only one other manufacturer provides "Full Function Navigation while in motion".

Does anyone have any refutations or confirmations ??

Thanks

Hi Rx330driver --

I could not agree MORE with you. In fact I have chatted about the very SAME idea with friends. I hope the right people are listening.... Thanks........

Steve --

It may perhaps be difficult for you to believe, but I am not one who enjoys nor seeks conflict. I wish the prior counter-productive posts had not occurred and I apologize for my contribution thereto.

Ron

I am now waiting for my THIRD unit (first 2 did NOT work) - I will post when it arrives and I give it a try.

-Ken

Hi Everyone -- I see a "Flag" next to my post which says Warn [0%] and 4-5 little blocks. What does that mean?? Did I say something wrong ?? If I did, I apologize.....

Thanks,

Ron

I ordered the Coastal Lockpick 3 Basic ($99) last week. Easy install - just plugs into dvd in trunk - HOWEVER, it does NOT WORK with the RX350 as they stated. It does NOT cancel the "I Agree" button and does NOT allow destination input while the car is in motion. I called them and am awaiting a replacement unit at this moment.

I would hold off on ordering one of these until someone can verify it works properly. Hopefully me, when I get a replacement.

Also, to note - the destination over ride is not automaticlly open. Each time you want to use it you have do do some key presses first, according to the manual.

Hi Everyone --

Does anyone know if the $99.00 package discussed here (or one like it) works for the 2007 Lexus ES-350??

Thanks,

Ron

No, I don't get it, why would you drive away from your house and THEN decide where you are going? That makes zero sense whether you have to turn in any one direction or not. And even if thats how you traditionally operate, why is it impossible for you to stop doing that? Why is it the end of the world for you to sit in your driveway for a second and decide where you want to go before you get underway?!?

As for the restaurants, did I ever say it was as convienient as scrolling through a list? No, I said it is a way to look for a restaurant without having to stop. Its not possible to set the system up where you can scroll through an alphabetized list of POIs while driving without voiding the warranty. You shouldnt be doing that while driving anyways. You can either whine and cry, or you can try and adapt what you want to do with what the system is capable of doing. I'd like my cell phone to make me waffles and do my taxes too, but it doesn't do that so I just make my own waffles.

Yes the lockout is annoying, but its not that big a deal, you get used to planning ahead and the benefits of having the system far outweigh the minor annoyance of having to stop to type in a destination. My question is, what do you expect anybody to do for you? You strike me as being completely unwilling to learn to adapt to the way the system works, and this system works exactly like EVERY other OEM navigation system except the one from Acura. Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti, all of them lock out destination and POI functions when moving. The DOT will absolutely make this lockout mandatory, sooner rather than later as cars become more advanced. Plenty of things in life are annoying, I wish my DVR would record more than 2 shows at once, but its not designed to do that so I make do.

Just because you failed to do the required research and testing prior to purchasing a car with a nav system doesn't mean it failed. You simply want it to do something that its specifically designed not to do for safety reasons. You can either choose to continue to be upset about this, or you can take the suggestions I've given you to get used to what the system will not let you do at speed. I wish it allowed you to do this stuff when driving too, but it doesn't and nor does anybody else's nav system so there's no use in being angry about it.

If you're going to be mad about something, be mad we live in such a litigious society that companies have to make their products less useful to protect themselves from enormous liability. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were the first person to file a class action suit against Toyota if you ran over a kid in a crosswalk while looking for the closest Denny's on the nav screen while you decide where you want to go after you've already been on the road for 20 minutes. Do you not see how crazy that sounds?

Again, just pull the damn car over and input your destination! Keep yourself and those you share the road with safe and stop aggrivating yourself about this.

Steve --

Button-Up, your ignorance is showing ............

Ah okay, I misunderstood you then.

Before you go trying to find all these things, try and live with it for a little while. Really, its not that big a deal. You get used to planning out your destinations ahead of time, if you're going to multiple destinations for instance you can program up to 5 in succession so the system can take you there one at a time. Like I said before you can set it so it displays a POI icon for gas stations or restaurants or whatever, and you can zoom in and out and pan on the screen to check out stuff around you without stopping. You can also detour around traffic when you're moving too.

It may seem really obnoxious now, but its not as big a deal as it appears to you.

As far as research, what you are discussing isn't a failure of the navigation system, the system is designed to keep drivers from programming it while the car is in motion as almost ALL OEM systems are. They're protecting themselves from liability and preparing for when they are required to do this by the DOT. There are literally HUNDREDS of threads here and on other Lexus boards about the fact that the navigation system does this, as there are on all the boards for all the other manufacturers who'se systems operate the same way.

This is your original complaint:

Just think of normal day to day activity. Get in car, start and drive onto local community road. OK, where do we want to go. Oh, right, the kid's new home. Let's see, I have that registered as a Memory Point. and then I realize I can do no more. AAARRRGGGGHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your problem is that you drive off before you figure out where you want to go. Most people have a destination in mind before they get out on the road. Here's how you can be happy with your navigation system:

Get in car and start. OK, where do we want to go? Oh right, the kid's new home. Let's see, I have that registered as a Memory Point. Select the memory point and set the destination, THEN drive onto the local community road.

Just because the system doesn't operate EXACTLY how you would like, doesn't mean its a failure. 99% of people don't drive off without a destination in mind. How do you know what direction to head if you haven't decided where you're going yet?!?

Oh Steve -- Just when I thought maybe you were "getting it"...... Oh well. Just a morsel for thought. I live in a community wherein I drive for about 0.4 of a mile before I make any turns in a specific destination direction. Get it ????

AND -- Clicking on every restaurant icon on the screen trying to find the "right one" sure beats scrolling thru a nice alphabetized list now doesn't it ?? And if there are enough Icons (frequently), it's virtually impossible to "click" on them all

It may well be the way it is and will be, but it is NOT they way most people intuitively EXPECT it to be as evidenced by EVERYONE who has seen the failed demo in my car, and you yourself find it "annoying" (per Am Heritage Dictionary "a source of troublesome repeated acts" - In this case Nav System failure to perform as expected)

Bye ......

Ron

LOL Did you ever think to try and program destinations when driving? Ever think to just do a little research about the car, read a review? Lexus isn't the only manufacturer that blocks out navigation programming functions when the car is in motion, most of them do as a matter of fact.

Again...just stop the car to program destinations! Annoying sure, but I can only think of one carmaker who'se cars you would be able to program when driving...Acura. Everybody else blocks out programming when driving.

As for a switch, just do a search on here and on other Lexus forums. There are ways to install a switch, but it will void all kinds of warranties. I wouldn't do it, I would and do just pull over to program. The system works extremely well.

Steve - And finally -- Yes I did a fair amount of research prior to purchase - I dare say more than most people do..... None talked about the failures of the Navigation System

Ron

LOL Did you ever think to try and program destinations when driving? Ever think to just do a little research about the car, read a review? Lexus isn't the only manufacturer that blocks out navigation programming functions when the car is in motion, most of them do as a matter of fact.

Again...just stop the car to program destinations! Annoying sure, but I can only think of one carmaker who'se cars you would be able to program when driving...Acura. Everybody else blocks out programming when driving.

As for a switch, just do a search on here and on other Lexus forums. There are ways to install a switch, but it will void all kinds of warranties. I wouldn't do it, I would and do just pull over to program. The system works extremely well.

Steve -- I was told that there were "devices" that can be installed to fix the problem and that they would NOT void any warranties. I specifically asked that very question. That was not a technical individual, however, so it is possible that confusion further reigns.

As I indicated, I HAVE looked for said devices online doing all kinds of searches with Google, Yahoo, and Mozilla to name a few. That is how I know at least some of the offered devices do not work properly. If you are able to recommend a specific vendor of a device that is "proven to work" and does not void warranties, I will be most appreciative if you are willing to share that invaluable knowledge......

Thanks,

Ron

Steve --

PS to my prior note --

I did not mean to suggest that ANYone intentionally mislead me on the Nav System. It was an unfortunate

set of circumstances that simply did not make it obvious that the car had to be stopped for many functions to work.

In addition, while I have not heard back from the dealership, that does not mean that they won't respond. They HAVE called and we have played "Phone-Tag" thus far. So I do not know what alternatives they may offer. BUT, I have been told that that is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.

Cheers,

Ron

Like I told you before I've used this system for 4 years and 80k miles, in fact I have it on two cars. When I want to find a restaurant or something in the POIs...I just pull over. Too many menus to navigate when driving anyways. Any highway you'd be driving on at 70MPH has safe shoulders.

Or, just plan ahead. If I know I'm going to want a restaurant and I'm going to be driving on the highway, I turn the restaurant POIs on and my passenger can scan for them on the display, highlight them and get the info.

You may feel that way, but I think you're being a little over dramatic. I use the nav several times a day, every day and while the lockouts are annoying, they certainly don't make the system unusable. Also remember that the Lexus system is constantly ranked at or near the top when OEM systems are reviewed. Everyone who has ridden in my car has wanted the system for themselves, and several of my colleagues have purchased Toyota and Lexus cars simply to get the same system I have.

As for being duped, didn't you drive the car and test out the system before you bought it?

If it really bothers you that much, install one of the several kits or switches to work around it. Getting a refund isn't going to happen for you, nobody hides the fact that the system locks out functions when the car is in motion, and had you actually taken the time to learn about the car before you bought it you'd know that.

Hi Steve -- I don't know who you think you're talking to, but let me assure you:

1. I drove the car prior to purchase.

2. The Nav system was demonstrated, but the stoppage requirements were NOT obvious to either of us

3. I had told the Sales Agent how excited I was about using it (as I described above) and asked for an

advanced copy of the Manual. I looked at some of the manual parts online, but I did not find ANY

mention of the requirement to be stopped in the manual. And in fact I still haven't.

4. I have looked online for a "switch" which will solve the problem and have asked the dealership for

assistance on this. Thus far, the dealership has not responded and the devices I have read about have

failed and have been returned by the buyers. If you know of a switch that does in fact work, kindly

share with me how I can purchase one. My appraisal of the car and Lexus will dramatically improve if

the Nav System can be made to work.

I've driven this car for 4 years with this nav system. Is it annoying that you can't type destinations in when driving? Yes. Does it make the system unusable? Not at all, you just have to plan ahead. Just put your top destinations in the presets, and pull over for the rest.

Hi Steve -- I find it hard to believe you find the system usable at ALL in a practical everyday environment. Try to find a restaurant (via a list of local POI for example) while driving in an unfamiliar area at 70 mph on a divided highway - To save you the trouble -- It can't be done. AND, pulling over to a shoulder on a major highway is probably more lethal than having the driver (let alone a front passenger - me) hit a few buttons if they worked properly (AND the way it was "implied" it would work in the pre-sale demonstrations we received). As for a destination input - I find it hard to believe that half a dozen pre-set destinations (quick access) is sufficient to deal with even a significant FRACTION of the destinations you would commonly try to access. It CERTAINLY dos not do the job for us. Like I said, the system as presently configured is a laughing stock (literally the case when I tried to do the retaurant thing with some friends in my new car), an embarrassment, and has an unbelievable number of signifi-CANTS. It is INDEED COMPLETELY UNusable, useless, and I feel I have been "taken" for $2400.00.

Ron

Hi Everyone -- I am a brand new Lexus ES 350 owner. I bought the car for the looks, performance, comfort, and Nav System. The Nav System was demonstrated pre-sale with enough "confusion" so it was not apparent that the system does virtually nothing unless the car is stopped. I am so annoyed I too am ready to sell the car or at a minimum request a rebate for the full purchase price of the Nav System from the dealership.

HOWEVER, I would MUCH prefer a solution so that I can (as a passenger) use the full set of Nav functions including Local POI Lists and Destination spec while driving.

Just think of normal day to day activity. Get in car, start and drive onto local community road. OK, where do we want to go. Oh, right, the kid's new home. Let's see, I have that registered as a Memory Point. and then I realize I can do no more. AAARRRGGGGHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can ANYone help?

Thanks

Ron