sv7887

You'll be back ;)

He's right you will definitely be back. I had to sell my '92 LS400 back in 2007 and believe me I wish I had that car back everyday. I ended up trading our '05 LS430 in '06 to get a S Class for my late father. My Benz experience has been quite good, the S is a great car but it's a different kind of car. There isn't anything quite like the LS series and depending on what you like that's both good and bad.

Still the ride and quietness can't be beat. The German competition rides harsher and definitely doesn't have that isolated library quiet ride that the LS does. Actually that's what has me probably coming back to a Lexus. I noticed you were interested in a early 2000s S Class. I'd strongly advise you to stay away from those cars. My '06 has had a ton of warranty work done to it, and that's the revised version of the 2000-1 model. Frankly I wouldn't touch anything past 2008 on a Benz, as the new ones are very good quality wise. I haven't had a single problem with my '09 E other than the rough ride driving me nuts.

Remember these LS400s are old cars now. Even before my '92 got T-boned it started to need suspension work and the Power Steering system crapped out on me. Parts are expensive and the dealer is a ripoff (Not exactly limited to Lexus, Benz charges nearly $300 for a glorified oil change)

Just take your time, and I hope you give Lexus another chance.

-Sam

Hey you said that you found out how to hook up aux in on CL? Can you give me the link? Congrats on your purchase. The 91 LS is an incredible car. I've owned it for close to 5 years and need to find an alternative to cd changer in trunk. Thanks

my bad! I originally tried to attach pictures but it said it doesn't allow for pictures that are dynamically sourced.

http://ps1.dlrsp.com/powersite/carpicture/...b200336aa_1.jpg

http://ps1.dlrsp.com/powersite/carpicture/...200336aa_11.jpg

http://ps1.dlrsp.com/powersite/carpicture/...200336aa_13.jpg

This is the thread on adding an Aux Jack on CL

http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269156

Hi Everyone,

I bought that 1991 LS with 45K original miles. The car is 1 owner, bought at and serviced by the original selling dealer, full service history. It apparently needs A/C (Possible new R134 system) and they are insisting on doing that work before giving it to me at their cost. I was surprised at the level of disclosure about the car, they wouldn't let me put down a deposit until they had inspected it.

Drivers seat looks a little tired, but needs some good reconditioning. (Leatherique is probably in order here). When I saw it had air suspension I hesitated. My old 92 didn't have that and I know they're trouble eventually. But I know of the Arnott Industries website that sells Reman OE shocks for the car for $400 a piece, so it's a devil I can live with. I was heartened by the new Climate Control display and cupholder. It seems the previous owner was as anal as I was when I had my car. It also has the Nakaminchi stereo so that is a plus.

I was thinking of having it wired with an Aux jack (I've seen the writeup on CL) by a local stereo shop or getting a Parrott Bluetooth kit with streaming Bluetooth audio capability. I'm wondering how to connect Nav to it but I'll start with the Aux jack

I jumped on the deal because you just can't find LS400's like this anymore. It sure beats paying $599/mo for this E Class that I don't particularly like. Don't get me wrong, the E Class is a great car, but the LS400 is like a best friend you've missed dearly, it felt like home driving a vintage one again. I drive less than 5K a year anyway so hopefully this car won't lay giant eggs lol.

I went for a 92 with 19,000 in Jan 08. The car needed service work for the 90K as it was so old. The cost is over 1500-. I paid 8,000 for the car and I love it but...

They aren't cheap cars by any imagination to keep. My 1992 was a money pit at the end of its time with me. It had 100K but was damaged in an accident..Prior to that accident it was a dream.

I am just thinking at the margin, it's either get a LS like this one, or get suckered into leasing another car which I really don't want to do.

A car like this will invariably need work and likely be expensive. But I know the foundation of this car is strong..The LS was built like no other, a build quality I don't see in today's cars. I've driven practically everything and have yet to find a car that impresses me. Even a $100K S Class has plastic coated door handles inside. Nothing really has that assembly quality of a LS400.

Even a Corolla can hit $21K today new...Even if I bought this car and it laid some king size eggs, I doubt I'll get anywhere near $20K or even 15K. It isn't the engine on a LS that is going to go..It's sensors, displays, and possibly some mechanical parts like thermostat, pulleys, P/S Pump, Rack, Hose, and Alternator.

We will see. The dealer was playing the "Someone else is interested game" too. I won't jump rashly on it. There is a 1995 LS with 15K miles on cars.com too.

Thanks for all your comments,

Sam

Hi,

Thanks for your post...They're asking $7,800 for it. If it pans out I'll offer 6800 for it. I looked on Kelley Blue Book and it's worth no more than $5K trade in. It still needs to go through their repair shop and detail. I am certain it will need work that goes without saying on an 18 yr old car.

I barely drive 4-5K a year so I did the math and felt even if this car laid some monster eggs over the next few years it will still make economic sense. Even a 6 yr old Corolla costs $10K list.

A LS of that age will probably need bushings, P/S Pump, Rack, Alternator, belts, and possibly fuel pump. It depends though. O2 Sensors might be another one.

Hi Everyone,

I used to post a ton on here as I had a 1992 LS400 that unfortunately was T-boned and never the same again...A 1991 showed up at a Lexus Dealer with 45K miles on it.

I have missed my LS ever since I had to sell it. There is just nothing like it at all. I have an E Class, it's nice but it doesn't have the grace, ride, or solid feeling that the original LS does...

I know I'll have to do some work on it. But..I'm paying $599 a month for this E Class that I barely drive..Even a used Corolla costs $13K these days. I'm familiar enough with this car to know what it needs. My LS needed the usual gambit of things, so I know what to ask and where to go to get a good deal.

What do you guys think?

As long as the car is less than id say $9k, buy it, all day long.

Hi Everyone,

I used to post a ton on here as I had a 1992 LS400 that unfortunately was T-boned and never the same again...A 1991 showed up at a Lexus Dealer with 45K miles on it.

I have missed my LS ever since I had to sell it. There is just nothing like it at all. I have an E Class, it's nice but it doesn't have the grace, ride, or solid feeling that the original LS does...

I know I'll have to do some work on it. But..I'm paying $599 a month for this E Class that I barely drive..Even a used Corolla costs $13K these days. I'm familiar enough with this car to know what it needs. My LS needed the usual gambit of things, so I know what to ask and where to go to get a good deal.

What do you guys think?

Hi Everyone,

I finally had to sell my LS400. It was starting to need something every few months and the paintwork needed some TLC. I was looking at around 2-3K to fix this all, and even then there was no guarantee something else wouldn't go wrong. The MA Lex dealers were a bunch of ripoff artists and most independents didn't want to work on the car. I'm taking it really hard..It's strange to be so emotional over a car.

I leased a MB E350 as they offered me the best deal since my dad just bought one. It's a good car, and surprisingly reliable, but...It's not a LS...The Comand system is clunky and it lacks the sound insulation of a LS. To it's credit the paintwork is fantastic, driving dynamics are great, and jam packed with safety features.

Still after driving a LS400 for so long, I don't know..It's like eating a Subway sandwich instead of a Quiznos one. :P Something feels like it's missing. Maybe it's the familiar V-8 rumble that greeted me with the turn of the key, or the smooth shifting transmission. Perhaps it was the eerie silence in the cabin as I drove 80 MPH on the highway or the great stereo. Or maybe it was the smaller things like functional cupholders!

I find myself looking at used 98-00 LS cars. My dad had a 1998 LS for about a year or so (traded it for a 02 LS430) and I drove it a few times. It was very powerful and a fun car to drive.

Are there any posters here who upgraded from a first gen LS to a newer 98-00 one? What were your impressions? Do you think it's a worthy upgrade?

Part of the problem with a leased car is the mileage restriction. Plus I'm a car nut and can never have enough cars!!! I always have loved Jaguars, but I wouldn't trust one NOT to leave me on the side of the road!!

A Jaguar to me is that sexy supermodel that everyone lusts after. It turns heads, but high maintenance galore. A Lexus is like the faithful Girl Next door that is always there when you need her.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

Sam

Curious,

The LS is hard to beat. I just sold my 1992 LS and tried to replace it with a MB E350. It is very hard to find a car that can replicate the LS experience. The ES comes close, but not quite.

You have the option of getting a CPO LS430. That will provide you with some warranty coverage. The market ought to be flooded with LS430 trades since the LS460 is out. I'd always take the car with lower miles. That premium is worth it. Keep in mind the 30K service will set you back $600 or so.

We had 4 LS400's and LS430's and they were excellent. I find that they provide a unique experience that cannot be easily put into words. I'll give it a shot:

I don't think there is a car out there that rides so competently or silently as the LS series. Together with unbeatable build quality and a great array of features this car will not only give you a peace of mind it will give you something to look forward to every day.

A Lexus isn't just a car, it's a relationship. Even until the end, my 1992 LS never stranded me. I always sat in my Lexus not worrying whether the car would start. In contrast it wouldn't surprise me if my dad's S430 or my E350 had issues. I think that's the biggest difference.

This is a great board and there are tons of knowledgeable posters here to help you during and after your shopping experience!

-Sam

Hey there guys (and girls!),

I'm trying to decide between buying a new 2007 ES 350 or an older model (2002 or 2003) LS 430. I was originally going to go in and order myself a new ES, but after reading aobut the LS here (I went through every LS 430 post over the last 2 years! Great info!) I'm now also seriously considering it.

Pros/Cons for each:

2007 ES 350

PRO: New car = new car warranty, built to my specifications (colour & options), new car smell

CON: There seems to be a problem with the tranny in the new ES's, not as smooth or refined and with fewer options, $$$ (would cost about $6K more)

02-03 LS 430

PRO: Very smooth refined, quality build, great reliability history, $$$ (save $6K)

CON: Not the exact colour combo I'm looking for, not a huge fan of the body styling, concerned about how it has been maintained and future repair bills.

I generally keep my cars for 5+ years (my last car, an STS, I kept for 10 yr and 150K miles!) and I want a car that I can depend on.

What would you choose?

Oh, and if you pick the LS, would you go for a 92 with 20K miles for $29 K or a 93 with 52K miles for $27K?

Thanks for all the help - this forum is a great asset!

Thanks for your post. I did finally find an independent who works on these cars. I'll take it to him next time something breaks.

Your comment on the ownership duration intrigues me. Do more people lease these high end cars? And do owners of luxury cars tend to hold on to them longer? I've been wondering how people have reacted to the increasing amounts of "gimmicks" in all of these high end cars. The LS460's and S550's are filled with all sorts of gadgets. I can't imagine them holding up as well my comparably "ancient" LS400 did over a 14 yr period.

You're right about leasing. Mercedes gave me a pretty good deal on my E Class. You're also right about bad salesmen being everywhere. The Boston area Lexus dealers used to be great. I remember when my dad bought his first LS 11 yrs ago, it was one of the best experiences we've had. I just think these particular dealerships have gotten too cocky for their own good. Maybe I should go out of state next time I'm looking for a car.

The Benz dealerships were like that too, but I think their recent struggles have humbled them a little. Their service guys still have an attitude problem. Actually the best experience I've had was with a Jaguar dealer. I really wanted to get my hands on an older XJ, but the car felt like an antique after sitting in the GS and E Class.

-Sam

All of these cars are expensive to fix when they get old. My Power Steering system on my LS400 cost me well over $1,600 to fix. The O2 sensors just went and that cost $800. It just goes with the territory. I don't think "any" of these high end cars are made to last 20 yrs like those 70-80's Benzes were.

I gotta agree with nc, your LS is far too old for you to spend dealership service rates to service it, find a good independent mechanic.

Most people don't own their cars for long durations anymore. Look at any Mercedes or Lexus dealer and you'll see tons of traded in 3-4 yr old cars. As soon as the model changes, most just trade them. My dad has a practice of trading in cars as soon as it gets near the end of the warranty. Even our past LS430's weren't as good as the LS400 when it came to issues.

This is because of the popularity of leasing luxury cars. All the 3-4 year old cars are lease returns. If you look at actual market statistics people are keeping cars LONGER now than ever before. Loan terms keep increasing as resale value increases, the average loan term now is 5 years vs 3 years only 10-15 years

I was thinking about a GS but the Lexus salesmen really ticked me off. When I told them I was considering a E Class they started to slam the car and even went so far to claim if the car broke under warranty I would have to pay to fix it. You shouldn't have to slam the competition to sell your car. They are Lexus salesmen, the car should sell itself. I really wanted to get a Lexus, but their attitude really put me off.

Unfortunately poor salesman are everywhere. All the dealers are independently owned so Lexus has little if any control over this. Being in sales I agree with you, the first rule of effective selling is to never put down your competition, but I've met terrible car salespeople from virtually every make.

All of these cars are expensive to fix when they get old. My Power Steering system on my LS400 cost me well over $1,600 to fix. The O2 sensors just went and that cost $800. It just goes with the territory. I don't think "any" of these high end cars are made to last 20 yrs like those 70-80's Benzes were.

Most people don't own their cars for long durations anymore. Look at any Mercedes or Lexus dealer and you'll see tons of traded in 3-4 yr old cars. As soon as the model changes, most just trade them. My dad has a practice of trading in cars as soon as it gets near the end of the warranty. Even our past LS430's weren't as good as the LS400 when it came to issues.

I just leased a E Class (E350 4Matic) and it's a nice car. It doesn't have the bank vault feel of my LS400, but it has some interesting safety features and technology. It brakes and handles better than my LS400. But the LS400 rides like a dream and is the quietest car I've ever had. The engine performance is pretty close. The 4Matic is going to be useful in winter. The highway performance is extraordinary. The Nanotech paint on the Benz is great. The Navigation isn't as good as a modern Lexus one. The Germans need some lessons from the Japanese in that regard. I wouldn't be surprised if I had issues with this car, but it doesn't bother me. It's nice to drive. Besides, I have the LS if something breaks.

People at work are making fun of me for still driving my LS even though I have a new MB...They don't understand, you can't buy cars like this anymore. I had the LS up to 85 MPH the other. Still can't hear a thing. Stereo is great, I can't even tell the difference between the LS's and the Harman Kardon in the Benz. And this is almost a 15 yr old car!

I was thinking about a GS but the Lexus salesmen really ticked me off. When I told them I was considering a E Class they started to slam the car and even went so far to claim if the car broke under warranty I would have to pay to fix it. You shouldn't have to slam the competition to sell your car. They are Lexus salesmen, the car should sell itself. I really wanted to get a Lexus, but their attitude really put me off.

They were arrogant and rude. They didn't seem to care that we were long time Lexus customers. I got the same attitude from the Service Dept a few weeks ago when I had the O2 sensors done. They didn't give a damn, despite my spending $5,000 in service alone this past year! I think the Boston area dealers are getting too arrogant for their good. I wished I had a top notch Lexus dealer around like Ray Catena and the like.

It'll be interesting to see what the next Lexus cars look like. I saw the LS460, it's a nice car, but I wished the design had some more flair to it. It's understated but a little bland. The S550 is bold, but I think it looks weird with the wheel flares. The A8 is a nice looking car though. I wonder what the next generation Jaguars are going to look like.

This is a good thread!

Sam

Agreed. As I mentioned in another topic, when the A/C went out on my aunts 95' Mercedes S500, it cost them $2800 to have it repaired. It did not require dash removal however. I think it was something else that went out.

I also agree that they are built like tanks, but the electrical systems can have a lot of glitches on the 92+ S-Class.

Now the 92-99 S class is another story. They were massive cars, with more legroom and headroom than almost anything else out there at the time. For a while I really wanted one of these. However I did some research and learned that while the drivetrain is bulletproof the rest of the car is not..and very expensive to fix. There is a part of the AC system (I believe it's the evaporator) that goes on ALL W140s. The part itself is only about $300, but the labor to install it (i.e. removing the entire dashboard) will run you about $3000. THREE GRAND. Most mechanics estimate at least $1500-2000 as far as yearly maintenence to keep these beasts running. Add another $1000 or more for the V-12 models. The design is starting to look a little dated IMHO.

When they run though they are great.

Hi Everyone,

So I got the car back from the dealer. They replaced the main 02 sensors, air filter and gave it back to me. I've noticed the gas mileage has gotten worse (Normally get around 20 mpg mixed city/hwy driving) Now I'm getting 16 MPG if that. I've filled the tank 10 gallons each time and gotten only 163 miles range out of it. You can almost watch the needle move..It didn't do that before. Car is a 1992 at 101K miles.

An additional symptom: If the car sits for a day or two, it spews black smoke when you start it with a strong smell of gas. That smoke dissipates within a few minutes and it runs fine.

The only other thing: When I'm moving in traffic you can hear a constant "Squeak Squeak Squeak" noise as the car moves slowly. Are my wheel bearings on the way out? Or is it something less sinister?

I have to say though, since I got my new Turanzas put on the car it drives like a dream. A real pleasure. My dad likes it even more than his new S430. I tell you, these cars are something special. I've sat in other cars, but nothing has the built to last feel of this car. I get initially really mad when things break, but I realize that it's an old car and it is to be expected. Besides, I love it, so it is money well spent. Everytime I try to sell or trade it, I back out..I just don't have the heart to do it!

One last question: Anyone know a good independent mechanic in the Boston area? My Lexus dealer hasn't been that good. I called them about the above issues and no one returns my phone calls. You'd think they'd treat me better after 12 yrs of going there. I guess they couldn't be bothered with an old car.

Thanks guys for all your help!

Sam

Hi Everyone,

I really appreciate the thoughtful responses. The impression of the car wearing out has come from the amount of parts replaced recently. Something has been happening every few months and had required 3 service visits this year. I understand it's old hence the idea of a "beater" car to keep the load off of the LS. Age will take it's toll on any car. It went 13 yrs before it really needed anything. I don't mind, the car is worth it.

It's all nice and shiny now..I'd hate to subject to the nasty winters around here. I've replaced so many parts in the last year I can't even remember what they've done. I'm so anal about the Body that the body shop laughs at me everytime I try to get something fixed.

The one thing I do know is that everytime I get it back from the dealer it's even better. This time it runs like a bat out of hell with those new oxygen sensors. Rides like a dream too. I get upset when I see the bill, but when I get back into the car I remember Why I am doing all of this.

They are actually decent on the prices and really fair when they screw something up. I've been going to that dealership since I was 12 yrs old. Maybe you're right, I should have the other Lexus dealer have a shot at it.

Apparently they found both my rear tires (Turanza LS-V's) are out of round and still vibrate even though they used a Road Force balancer. I've only done 1K on these tires so hopefully it will be covered.

These are great cars. I looked in the Lexus showroom two days ago and nothing really suited my fancy. Maybe it's the look, maybe it's the outstanding build quality, or just the presence..But there is nothing like it anywhere.

You're right about the Corolla. Everyone laughs at me for driving it. I don't even have power windows or locks in it!! I tell you though, every Friday is a real treat when I take the LS out. Nothing like the burst of power from the V-8 and cruising silently at 75 MPH to remind you what a great car this is..

I'll get the car fixed and hopefully enjoy it without having to return to the dealer in a few months!

Thanks

Sam

Keep the LS, ditch the Corolla

That's my vote. I've never understood the idea behind buying a nice car only to drive a tin can 6 days/week. Sell the Corolla, and find another dealer who will address your problems. That's good that the shop foreman is nice, but his kindness isn't making your car any better, and you should get a lot more than kindness for $110/hour and highly marked up parts. Find a shop who will take care of your car's issues, buy a set of winter tires, and enjoy this car that you are so attached to. ;)

Wear it out? You've still got a long way to go before you wear out a car that is capable of easily reaching 300k+ miles.

Hi Guys,

A real frustrating experience with my car. My car is a 1992 LS with 100,400 miles on the clock. I got back from a business trip and the check engine and trac off lights were on. It was also squeaking as I was driving it. They replaced the O2 sensors (I knew that one was coming) and replaced the engine belt for the second time in a few months. It still squeaks and it drives me nuts. They replaced the wipers and air filter so the bill was another $1,000.

I already had been to the dealer twice this year and spent $4000 in all sorts of stuff. (Front suspension, brakes all around, Rear Carrier bushings, Fan Clutch, Thermostat, P/s Hose and Rack, New needles for the cluster, new wood trim, and tires). The interior and body are near perfect. Suspension and most mechanical systems are all new.

The only things I can think of that may need attention are: Fuel Pump, Alternator, A/C (I don't use it that much), and perhaps the exhaust. Anything I'm missing here?

So okay, it's an old car, I understand. But 3 visits in a year? Here's the underlying issue: From reading this forum I told them to replace the tensioner and/or pulleys. They refuse to. "There is nothing wrong with it" Yet this car keeps squeaking with the new belts, and keeps eating them at $200 a pop! Ahh!

It only drives once a week. They tell me "Recommend you drive the car more..." Okay..Why is it that a brand new belt makes the same noise as the old one?? The guy who works on my car is the Shop Foreman and he's a real good guy. I trust him. It's just annoying though.

I've asked them repeatedly, "You guys know these cars, give me a list of things that will go wrong on it..Money isn't an object, if it's broken fix it!!!"

I just want to be able to drive it for a little while and enjoy it without having to go to the dealer every few months. As it is I only drive once a week. I am sorely tempted to trade it and just deal with the loss on the maintenance stuff.

I went looking in the showroom...They just don't build them the same way. I sat in a new IS and ES and was disappointed. The door handles aren't that big piece of solid metal like my LS are. Both cars didn't have that tank like feel the LS does.

I can deal with the $$$ required for this car's upkeeping..I really don't want to drive this car everyday, especially in the nasty New England Winter. My logic is that I don't want to wear it out. I have a 2006 Corolla that I use as a daily driver (Man, this thing has had the worst assembly quality of any Toyota car I've had) I'm thinking of getting rid of the Corolla asap, and am not sure what to do.

I could do two things:

a) Trade the LS on something..Maybe that is the wise thing to do..I'm not sure. I know the posters on this board can tell me how much $$$ I'll be on the hook for..The car has tremendous sentimental value (Always a dangerous thing when dealing with cars!) It was my dad's 50th birthday present to himself, and I was a 12yr old at the time.. I used to steal the keys so I could listen to music in it..It's been mine for a long time now..I'd hate to give it up at this point. I can afford the repairs, so that isn't a valid excuse.

B) Keep the LS, ditch the Corolla and get something nicer as a daily driver, and find a way to keep the LS mothballed without ruining it.

Any ideas?

Thanks guys for letting me vent!!

Sam

Thanks everyone for all your help!

The dealer did a trans fluid drain and refill and it shifts great now...This time the bill wasn't bad, $175..the cheapest visit I've had in a long time...

I also got a ride in the ES350. The center console looks really cool, but the dash material looks a bit cheap, and the absence of the wood (compared to the ES330) is quite noticeable. The exterior is much better looking in person.

-Sam

level is good ?

I'll have to check the car again to make sure, but I'm pretty sure the fluid level is okay. There is no trace of leaks or anything. The car was checked over about 5 months ago by another Lexus dealer and they didn't tell me anything about the transmission.

I'm wondering if the shuddering is a symptom of older fluid. It has been 2 yrs since the last change. The car does sit in the garage alot.

I'll see what the Lexus dealer says on Wednesday. Can you guys think of anything else I should be paying attention to since it's around 100k?

Thanks!

Sam

Hi everyone,

This morning I took my 92 LS out for a drive. I noticed when driving at 40 MPH the transmission shuddered for a few seconds when I stepped on the gas. It's done this maybe once or twice before, but it doesn't happen on a regular basis. Time for some new fluid maybe?

The car has 99,300 miles on it, and had the trans fluid changed (5 quart pan drop) at 84,300 (during 90K service) over 2 yrs ago. I called the Lexus dealer to schedule the car for a trans fluid change and oil change.

The car has had a lot of work done recently. I recently had the P/S rack, high pressure hose, upper control arms, fan clutch, thermostat, Stabilizer Bar Bushings, Battery, Brakes all around replaced. The timing belt, water pump, ball joints, P/S pump were all done at 84K. I just had all four tires replaced with Bridgestone Turanza LS-V's and aligned properly.

As the car nears 100K what else should I have looked at/done? I'm giving them the car on Wednesday and they'll keep it until Friday. The car only gets driven once a week so I'm wondering whether it needs any special attention. I mentioned the Transmission Filter and Fuel Filter but they claim it's "Lifetime" That seems to be the Lexus party line...

Thanks!

Sam

The electric fuel pumps in Toyotas almost never go bad if the fuel filter is changed at least every 100,000 miles and the owner uses a name brand gasoline (Chevron Shell, etc). The electric pump in my '92 Toyota pickup is still working fine at 469,000 miles.

It's funny you say that because the Lexus dealer REFUSED to change my fuel filter saying the fuel lines were all rusted and that the "filter" is lifetime...It's kinda hard to have the filter changed when the dealership won't do it!

I find it hard to believe the fuel lines need replacing because of this...The car has always been garaged and well maintained...

-Sam

If George Bush had been re-elected in 2004, instead of that damn John Kerry, we'd have cheap gasoline.

Um, okay...

Oh boy...Okay posts like this really get on my nerves. SWO3ES, I'm sorry for the following rant, I know as a Moderator you have better things to do..

Here's is a little primer on why gas prices are so high.

1) Global Supply and Demand:

The US consumes more oil than India and China combined. Hence 300 million Americans account for more usage than 2 BILLION people...

2) Source of Supply:

We get our crude oil from unstable countries:

Things in Iran are not helping

3) Refinery Capacity

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Usa/Oil.html

The US has not built a single refinery in 30 years. Why? The refinery market was deregulated making the operation of those refineries unprofitable. Before you complain about Big Oil let's take a collection to reopen those refineries..

3a) Oh wait you can't reopen them. The combination of Environmental Regs and our NIMBY (Not in my Back Yard) Protestors have thwarted any attempt to build new refineries.

As a result the number of refineries has falled from over 300 to 200.

4) Hedge Fund investors have poured billions into the oil commodity market, driving up the price of futures. This is not what the market was meant for, but it's legal as far as I know

5) The Speculator Market:

Big Oil doesn't set the price of oil, the world market does. Currently the speculation in the market is adding a $15 premium per barrel due to fears over Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Call it a fear premium if you want.

The summary is this:

Global Capacity to provide oil is constrained by a number of factors

a) US Demand

B) Ability to refine the Oil

c) Tensions in the supply areas

The true path to lowering prices is consumption. We, the lovers of Lexus cars, hold part of the blame. This will change in the future with Hybrid Lexuses but for the present we rightfully deserve these prices.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I want to set the record straight,

Sam

Now, onto the things I don't like.

The big one is the interior as a whole. While the features are excellent, the style and material content of this interior is a big step backwards from the previous car. The plastics aren't as soft or heavily padded and areas that were finished in wood are now finished in ugly, Chrysler looking plastic that has a very unnatural looking grain including around the guage cluster and the center console. The oval air vent design is still very odd, and the dash pad material also has a very unnatural looking grain and looks rough instead of smooth like leather. The style of the interior also seems off, the dash is much higher than the previous car as are the door panels making it feel narrower and making visibility seem lower. The gauges, while side by side tach/speedo and cool when lit up (a'la Acura RL) look plasticky and cheap when they're turned off and I really miss the "invisible when off" guages effect. From a styling and proportion standpoint, the feeling is not unlike sitting in a circa 2000 Ford Taurus. Very dissapointed in the interior.

So, I think overall the car looks great from the outside and I'm sure it drives great, but I absolutely will not be trading my 03 in on one. I'll keep it until I can get an LS.

So, sadly, I think the new ES has to be my least favorite of the remodeled cars simply because of the interior.

Great writeup. I think the interior of the last gen ES was fantastic. Everything gelled perfectly in that car. I had the pleasure of having an ES330 as a loaner and I really loved the cabin. The center cluster was especially appealing. The exterior was okay, but looked pretty nice in the color you've got.

The new car's interior reminds me of the original Lexus interiors. Not a lot of wood at all, and quite plain. I'll hold judgement on the car's exterior until I see it in person.

On a side note, save the LS460 I've been kinda disappointed by the L-Finesse styling theme. I'll have to wait to see what they do on the SC before making a final opinion on that. A lot of the original Lexus designs were timeless: The original LS/ES/SC all had great designs. You see a lot of these older cars these days and they still look attractive. If Lexus built a "modern" version of the original ES300 I'd buy it in ten seconds.

Just imagine a freshened ES300 (Circa 1992-2000) with a 2002-2006 ES330 interior. I think it would look great.

-Sam

LS400 Disc Player 86120-50360... As summer heats up my cd changer works less and less.

I GET THE ERR msg.

Well I have three options..

1. Get a whole new system $1500

2. Get CD repaired? Not sure where? $300

3. Use IPOD in LEXUS. $300

Any advice is greatly appreciated...

Hey Kewlguy,

Check out this website:

http://carstereohelp.com/lexus.htm

They want $275 to fix our CD changers. They are located in Orlando, FL. I kept this link just in case I have to fix that one day. They also have instructions to take out the stereo if that needs fixing. The prices seem reasonable.

Here are the instructions to take the changer out:

http://carstereohelp.com/stereoremovalLexusLS400CDChgrR.htm

Hope this helps,

Sam

Hey again!

My 400's transmission is in excellent shape and well maintained, but I do wish to firm up the shifts and have quicker shifts as well. Since the transmission is ecu controlled, what can I do? I drove a same year Sc400 and that trans shifts the way I like it. Can I swap an Sc's trans ecu?

Have you tried pushing the ECT switch to PWR? This switch is located right next to the gearshift. That should accomplish what you are trying to do.

-Sam

Hello, I own a 1999 GS300 and have had a excellent experiance with it. I love the Lexus brand. I 'm thinking of buying a LS 2003 or newer. I was was hoping on feed back from LS owners on how they like the LS and what kind problems you have had.

Thanks

TAGGAR

The LS is a great Luxury crusier. Did you buy your GS looking for a sporty ride? The LS430 isn't exactly the most "nimble" car but it will gladly go 100 MPH at the drop of the bucket. The ride is silky smooth and the car has every comfort you can think of. Quality is still the best around. I'd go for a 2004 or 05 as it is a substantially upgraded car over the 2003 model.

We had two LS430's a 2002 and 2005. We traded the '02 with 25K miles. It had the rain sensor replaced 3 times, and something in the steering column replaced. The '05 LS only had 7K miles when we traded it last month. They only problem with that car was the paint. It scratches way too easily.

It's a great car no doubt. Have you driven one?

Hope this helps,

Sam

(place soap box on ground, take step upward...)

As much as I hate to admit it I have been toying with the idea of getting rid of my LS in favor of something more environmentally friendly.

If a hybrid is available in the model car you are looking at, why not buy it? If you're spending $70K - what's another $6K ($120/month)? You'll get most of that $6k back in a tax break from uncle sam anyway and you may be able to avoid the gas guzzler tax. If I was looking at the Accord, Civic, or Camry there would be no question as to whether or not to get the hybrid. I would never expect to recognize any return on the extra investment in terms of fuel savings over the lifetime of the car, but it is the responsible thing to do. (I won't even get into our dependence on foreign oil in this rant.)

(step down, pick up soap box, walk away)

Why don't you get a newer LS430? That car has pretty good gas mileage compared to your original LS. Plus it has ULEV Emissions status. It's about as environmentally friendly as a Lux car can get. The LS series is one of the few High End cars that DOESN'T get hit with the Gas Guzzler tax. It's pretty efficient to begin with. The highway mileage on the LS430 we traded was around 25 MPG.

You'll never convince me to get a hybrid. I believe Diesel is a far better implementation than the Hybrid setup. Look at Europe, you'd be hard pressed to find a Prius there. Have you looked at the MB E320 CDI?

Yes, it's a Mercedes (Boo Hiss!! lol!) but that model gives 37 MPG on the highway, tons of torque and is faster than the gas powered model. Looking at the Hybrids I see the mileage improvement is not even close to being worth the premium. A Normally LS460 is fairly efficient at mid 20's MPG and I'm sure it will have low emissions.

Toyota was smart and cashed in on the Hybrid s*x appeal. But if you look at it closely, it's not what it's cranked out to be.

1) It adds needless complexity to the car. My best friend works for AAA and curses every time someone calls him to jump start one. They are hard to work on.

2) They take up trunk space. Not much of an environmental issue, but a convenience one.

3) You still have to change the batteries at some point. Disposal is a big Environmental problem

4) Creation of those batteries required Energy, and surely produced harmful byproducts. Essentially the net gain is nil, and in fact you might be making things worse by creating a disposal problem.

5) They are far more expensive to repair. You can't that get fixed at the local garage that's for sure.

6) The mileage benefits are exaggerated. Battery performance does vary according to temperature. A quick search on Google confirms people are not getting EPA estimates.

It's no surprise that they haven't been widely adopted outside of the USA. Right now Hybrid is the "in" thing with the so called Hollywood/hippy/environmental folk.

I don't dismiss the potential of hybrids, and I do think they are here to stay. I'd like to see a Diesel-Hybrid combination.

While the LS600h is a technical marvel, you aren't going to convince me to pay the premium. I'd take the normally aspirated LS460 L any day of the week!

-Sam

Looking to trade in this fall 2006 my 1998 LS400 with - by that time - 125K for a newer model. Which model is best ??

What are the opinions of the group on which model I should look to purchase next??

My budget is limited - $30 K or less, so my options re Years are too ! I'm looking for a 2000-2002 with < 65K miles. What year is best to get: 2000, 2001, or 2002 ?? What are problems with any of these years ??

Thanks !

LS400

White - 1998

Rockport, MA

The 2000 isn't that different from what you've already got. I think they added Brake Assist in the final year. However, you can be assured of the mechanical durability, since it was the last run of the model you have.

But, from a value for money proposition, I'd get the 01-02 LS430. The car is far more luxurious if anything. Once you get hooked on the electronic toys it is hard to pass up. The Navigation System is great, along with the Voice Control (2002 onward). The car has plenty of wood trim and is roomier than the 2000 model. The 2002 is more less the same as the '01, it has Voice Controlled Nav and Stereo though. 17" rims were pretty much standard for this year too.

I haven't seen many reports about high mileage LS430 cars

This is pure speculation on my part: Given the added complexity of these cars, I would expect long term maintenance costs on a LS430 to exceed that of a LS400. The touchscreen for the NAV is one of the first things I'd expect to go. I bet this replacement would run at least $1-2K. Make sure that any LS430 you consider has the CPO warranty on it. The market for the LS430 is about to be flooded with trade ins as the LS460 is introduced.

Since you are from MA, I can tell you quite a bit about the Lexus dealers in our area. Lexus of Norwood tends to have the highest quality of used cars, but prices them at a premium. Based on our dealings with them, they tend to price their CPO 5-7K more than what they paid at trade in. For example we traded our 2002 LS430 last December and got 37K for it. (It had 25K miles on it) They listed it at $44.9K within a few days. Their service is pretty good.

Their Mercedes dealer gave us $47,250 for our 2005 LS430 with 7K miles, and it is listed at $49,990 on the Herb Chambers website. (Anyone want a Dark blue LS430 that I can personally vouch for?) They originally offered me $45K, but I knew they wanted to unload their leftover S Classes so I pushed harder.

Lexus of Watertown has cars that are slighty scuffed up, but at a more reasonable price. My 1992 LS400 is from there. It did have it's share of teething problems in the beginning, but they took care of it all. It's been THE best car we've owned period. Greg Stanicek is the Service Manager there and is superb. He has personally taken care of my 1992 LS400 and has done a GREAT job.

Ira Lexus has got to be the stereotypical Used car lot mentality. Their sales pitch reeks of high pressure and all sorts of gimmicks and games. Their prices aren't that great, so I never understand the whole smoke and mirrors show when I go there. I'd avoid this dealer.

I haven't dealt with Lexus of Northborough in person. I did try to deal with their Internet Sales Dept and wasn't impressed by their pricing.

If you need any info, don't hesitate to ask.

Hope this has been useful,

-Sam

Well I recently took my car in for the 90k service at the dealer. I had made a list of items that I wanted completed as I wasnt sure what their procedure for the 90k service involved. Well I picked up the car when it was done and went over the list with the service advisor. While the major items were completed (water pump, timing belt, spark plugs, coolant flush) I was very dissapointed to hear that the other items on my list were not completed as I had requested. I had asked for the cam seals, crank seal, tensioner, and pulley to be replaced while they were in there. The service advisor said they were all fine and didnt need to be done.

I am very concerned, those seals are going on 11 years old now and dont leak today but I am sure it is only a matter of time. The pulley and tensioner are a bigger concern for me as I was reading some other posts about these items going bad on slightly higher mileage cars and destroying the timing belt. I paid a generous price for the service as it was done at the dealer, thinking they would do the best job. I could have taking it to a local mechanic and had it done cheaper and supplied the parts (saved even more money) but I didnt want my car to be a learning experience as we dont have many Lexus here in town and when I talked to my normal mechanic, they had never worked on an LS before.

So herein lies the problem, what do I do now? Do I go back to the dealer and explain my frustration? Or do I just live with it and hope that those parts last another 90k before they are due to be replaced?

I have some other small issues to talk to them about anyway, they overfilled my oil and now the car puffs a little cloud of blue smoke when I start it first thing in the morning and when I checked the coolant level, it was pretty low, I topped it off. There is also now a small coolant leak from one of the hoses on the top of the engine that wasnt there before.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Did you have them put in writing the additional things you wanted done? In any case, you should talk to the Service Department Manager. CALMLY (I know it's hard to do that, trust me I've been there) explain to the Service Manager that your expectations were not met, and that you had specifically mentioned that these things be done. From their view I don't know why they didn't do what you requested. It may have been a genuine attempt to save you money. (But then they should have deducted the service price accordingly) Or it could have been something a little more deceptive.

If it is a good dealer, they will offer to take the car back and make it right. If you are not satisfied with your experience call 1-800-25-Lexus and let them know of your dis-satisfaction. Lexus prides itself on Customer Service, and will try to help you out. If you make reasonable requests they will likely reciprocate.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I've been there before it wasn't pleasent. Don't let this stop you from enjoying your car!

-Sam