lexus trekker16

I'd like to start a discussion regarding the Lexus LS460 Navigation lock-out and what we, as a group, can do to persuade Lexus that we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how.

Recently, on a trip in Florida, I needed to re-route around some traffic. I knew where I wanted to go (a POI I knew). My wife, in the passenger's seat, was perfectly able to use the navigation system, were it not for the fact that it was locked out while we were in motion. I had to pull into a parking lot to make the selection. The traffic was so bad that getting back in took over 10 minutes (Orlando, go figure). The navigation system that was supposed to save me time ended up being more hindrance than help.

This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway, which is what some folks might do, or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination -- especially for the passenger to do the selection -- is both ludicrous and insulting.

I have more stories, but I'm sure you share most of them.

These features are "locked out" while the car is in motion, and I believe (as I think many of you may) that the use of these options should be our choice -- not the car maker's choice.

• Choosing a different destination (POI, Address, Phone, etc.)
  
• Choosing an album to play by selecting it directly, rather than having to page through them one-by-one
  
• Dialing a phone number when using the telephone
  
• Other features "locked out" during forward motion
  

What I want, and what I believe we all expect, is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it.

So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.

I would love to see a class action against Lexus not only to give drivers the options you suggest but to fix all of the inaccuracies that the Lexus navigation system has. That ^%*%()'g system has sent my wife and I to the wrong place or on some ridiculously long routes so many times, I feel like throwing a brick through the screen. And I do know how to operate the system, as I have Lexus GX470 which is almost always accurate. As a result of the LS 460's poor directions, we cannot trust the nav system and can no longer depend on it.

The LX460 nav system is wrong so many times that I have named it the CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS SYSTEM. It does not know where it is going, it does not know how to get there, and when it arrives it does not know where it is. It was a complete waste of money. It has been to the dealer three times and Lexus says that it operates as designed. The problem is that the design is basically in error. And Lexus is going to hard line it by denying any errors, since it is too cheap to fix the problem. Guess what my next car will not be.

Don't any of you have similar problems?

A few thoughts about the GPS.

Another other thread has folks complaining about being "locked out" of the GPS while driving. They say they need to pull over "to enter the destination." That's kind of ironic, since the 460 allows for voice recognition -- while driving -- yet in 6 pages not one person mentioned it. It's not a perfect system, as you'll see in a moment, but you are definitely NOT locked out of the GPS the way you were with earlier models. (I'm referring here only to the GPS, not the other functions that do get locked out.)

I've used the voice recognition system several times. In general, it works fine. You say "Address" and it asks for State, then city, then street, then street number.

Problems arise, however, when, no matter how I pronounce a certain town, it fails to recognize what I'm saying. It seems it would be an easy fix for it to accept spelling of the town or street. After all, if it can understand, as it did yesterday, Pennsylvania, Downingtown, Perimeter Drive, surely if could understand the 26 letters of the alphabet.

If it could not get the town I wanted, it should ask for the first letter, then the second, and maybe the third, and then it would be able to "understand" when I say the name of the town.

But a much worse problem has been happening lately. Yesterday, on that trip from NYC to Downington, a trip of around 150 miles, it wanted to route me through Harrisburg -- which would have added another 150 miles to the trip! It gave me that route both going down and also when I said "Go Home." All my previous GPS systems were wacky in Manhattan, but I have never seen anything like the problems I saw yesterday, and other days as well, with my 460 GPS.

Is this happening to others? I have at least one neighbor who took her Lexus back for repairs on the GPS because it kept getting her lost. But she's a rather elderly lady (sorry for being sexist and ageist) and I thought perhaps she just didn't know how to use it. For me, this is my 4th vehicle with GPS, so I think I know how they are supposed to function.

Ideas about what's going on?

Yes, I believe that Lexus has a major software problem with its navigation system. Please see my (Lexus trekker16) discussion in this site about the navigation problems that I and many others are having. The navigation system regularly routes to the wrong place, refuses to take existing addresses and takes unnecessarily long routes to get to destinations. I have not heard of any solution yet.

I agree that the head lights are unusual. The high beams are really high, too high. They illuminate trees etc. about 30 ft. off the ground. And there is a black, dark line between the space lit up by the low and high beams. The dealer says that the lights cannot be adjusted relative to each other. That is, the dim beams cannot be raised to meet the high beams and vice versa. "It is working within specifications". Where have I heard that before? Has anyone else noted this problem and/or soved it?

My navigation system has, on multiple occasions, taken me to the wrong final destination. It has missed the final destination from a few hundred yards to several miles. But sometimes it is right on the final address. The dealer has "recalibrated" the system, but the problem continues. Has anyone had the same problem and its solution?

UPDATE: The dealer admitted the problem and called in a factory service person. I am told that there is "focus" in the navigation system that is adjustable. The focus in my system was not precise and just gave a general location. The system has presumedly been adjusted to a more precise location. So far, I have not had the same problem but I have only given it limited testing.

After more testing, the problem of faulty final destinations continue. So far, it has tried to reroute me OFF of the street with the final destination and send me to the wrong place. The navigation system has also refused to accept addresses that do exist and does not show streets that have existed for decades. Even when the final destination is close to the actual one, it often gives a route that is clearly not the shortest. The navigation system on my GX470 and my former LS430 were accurate and on target every time. The LS460 system is clearly defective and Lexus acts like the problem does not exist. My confidence is dropping fast on Lexus quality and service. The service people tell me that I am the only one to complain of this problem. The messages on this forum show that this is BS. It appears that a long battle is shaping up until Lexus can come up with a solution.

Nov. 20, 2007 update; The Navigation system remains inaccurate. In the latest trip it wanted to send me to someplace that was completely in the wrong direction. When I ignored the wrong direction, it then recalculated and sent me to the correct location. Other trials resulted in many wrong directions. My conclustion is that THE NAVIGATION SYSTEM IS UNRELIABLE AND CANNOT BE TRUSTED. It was a $3,000. waste of money.

I would appreciate more reader's feedback who do and do not have this problem. If there are units without any problem and are accurate all of the time, I can go the dealer and demand that it be replaced or reprogrammed. However, if all of the 2007 Nav systems are defective, then there is no use trying to get it fixed. Thanks.

12/27/07 The Lexus service manager, my salesman and I took a tour of a couple of places that had given me wrong directions in the past in my LS460. The nav system was completely in error on a major intersection near my home. It had the screen and the voice contradicting one another in one direction and in the opposite direction, both the screen and the voice were wrong. The service manager then said that he took two or three other new Lexus over the same route and they made the same mistakes. It was Lexus' conclusion therefore that the satellites were the problem and NOT the nav systems. WOW, what convenient reasoning powers. I wonder how my GX470 nav system received the correct signals at the same location from these faulty satellites?

On another route, the nav system routed the car to the wrong place by about 1/2 mile when the address was put in manually. But when the name of the club was put in then the nav system went to the correct address. How are we supposed to know when to put in the name or the address? Shouldn't it give the correct directions for both the name and the address?

I have to give the agency credit for at least sending out its people to see what the problem is. Howver, my impression is that the service manager is fearful of Lexus and is following the factory orders. My salesman was more honest and said that he has had many complaints about the nav system.

My only resort seems to be to buy a Garmin and set it on the dash or return the car as a lemon. Maybe I will do both. Why can't Lexus own up to its problems?

I just read somewhere that the braking distance of the new LS460 is not good. It was rated among the worse?

Is it true?

I do not have any objective tests, but I can give you a subjective experience. I tried the LS 460 with the old Turanza tires and thought that they were poor handling and rough. I had the dealer change the tires on my new LS to Bridgestorone Turanza with Serenity and they are much, much better. The handling is great, the ride is very smooth and the braking seems much better.

David

Hi everyone,

I own a '99 LS400 and am posting on behalf of my dad who has a new LS460. He recently put his original tires back on, after having snow's on for the winter. As I am in the process of choosing new tires myself and am doing a ton of research, I looked up the original equipment Bridgestone Turanza EL42 and was shocked. They were ranked 25th out of 27 tires in the Grand Touring All-Season survey category.

I was wondering what tires came with your LS460, and whether you are happy with them.

Jeff

Jeff,

I demod a LS460 with standard Turanza tires and did not like them at all, not great traction and harsh. I took a chance and ordered my LS with the new Bridgestone Turnaza with Serenity tires. That is, I had the dealer change them. The Turanza tires with Serenity are head and shoulders above the old models. They are quiet, smooth and the traction is great in corners. As an extra plus, they have a z rating in the size for the LS. Braking also seems to be improved. If you jam the brake pedal, it feels like you are going to go through the windshield. I read the poor reviews of the brakes and handling and cannot help but feel that the poor tires were a large part of it.

David

<_< Has anyone experienced the following w/their gx470?  Our 2005 has less than 1500 mi yet downshifts in cruise control when encountering slight hills.  Downshifts may occur 2-3 times before the hill (or rise) is negotiated.  We're not talking about steep grades.  All other cars we have owned (even 6 cyl) don't do this like this vehicle

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I have the same problem with my 2005. When in cruise control, it continuously downshifts and upshifts all the way up a gently incline. It shifts 10-15 times up a long hill. It is not tolerable and I just turn it off on a hill. I sent it to the dealer and just got it back. But the note just says the cruise control is operating as designed. SOME DESIGN! I talked to the service manager and she said that Lexus has not issued anything on it.

And by the way, it still clunks after having a new driveshaft installed.

I really like my GX 470, but I would like to change the steering effort to turn the wheel. At the present time, it takes very little effort to turn the steering wheel, even above 60 mph. As a result there is very little "feel" and it is easy to let the vehicle drift if you are not paying strict attention. Also, in turns there is little feedback. I have no reason to believe that the GX is not acting as it was designed or that anything is defective.

As I understand it, the steering effort is speed sensitive. Is there any way to "fool" the power steering into thinking that the GX is traveling faster that it acturally is , so that the effort will be greater? Or in general, is there any other way to increasing the steering effort and feel, preferably in a reversible manner so that the warranty is not affected.

On prior LS models, there was an electrical connector to the power steering that could be disconnected. When this was done the LS thought that it was doing maximum speed and the steering effort was set at the maximum. It created significantly more feel, but it was hard to steer at slow speeds.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Lexus trekker16,

I see you own a LS430 and the GX. I have a LS430 and think it is the best ride of all cars. My work vehicle has to have 4 wheel drive for some locations I go to, and for that I have a Tacoma pickup. In trying to find one vehicle to do both jobs I am considering a GX470. I am really interetsed in your opinion of how the GX feels out on the long freeway drive compared to the LS ... how quiet a ride, how smooth is the ride on freeways where you have a joint every 20 feet etc. Going 80 mph feel like 50 as it does in the LS?

Thanks Much for any help,

Terry

PS: I tried to send this in a PM but would not go through.

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W6RU

Sorry to take so long to respond. I haven't checked this subject recently, since my problem was solved. I will look at my info to see if something is wrong in order to let you contact me.

First of all, I love my GX470. It is a great combination of luxary and toughness. The ride is smooth and quiet, but not quiite as smooth and quiet as the LS 430. The LS has a bigger, heavier feeling. But the difference is very small. The GX has a quicker, more lively sprorty feeling. Of course, the GX has four suspension settings from Sport to Comfort. There is little more wind noise in the GX at 65+, but it is really small. You ought to give one a good test ride.

You mentioned tar strips. I found the tar strips more noticeable on the GX, a little annoying but not to an obtrusive level. Interestingly, when I put the slightly oversize tires of 265/70X17 on the GX, the ride comfort improved significantly. The tar strips now feel about the same as the LX, and the sensation of all bumps is much, much less. Apparently, the taller side wall absorbs bumps much better than the 265/65/s. Where I previously put the ride on Comfort, I now put it on Sport and it is still smoother than the original tires. Incidentally, my tires are Bridgestone A/T's, so I would guess that highway tires would be even smoother.

I took my GX out to the woods and pastures and mud and ditches this weekend. It performed like a champ and did not leave me stuck in the country. My LS may be a little smoother but it stays on the highway.

As an aside, I made six changes to the GX. They are all small changes, except one. But the overall change in the appearance makes it unique. The one significant change is that I had a body shop remove the crease on the front fender from the window to the the headlamp. In my opinon, it smoothed out the looks and removed the cluttered look of the front fenders. Lexus disigners will probably disagree.

I hope that this answers your questions.

trekker16

The button is by your right knee.

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Thank you very much, I found it. I wonder why my dealer and Lexus customer service never heard of that button.

Here are a few of the pictures I promised.

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nice B)

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Where did you find the grill guard? Was it made specifically for the GX470?

You also have the button under the dash for different tires, and a recalibration function via the GPS screen.

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WHERE! More details please.

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I found it. If you have a navigation system, just click: MENU, SETUP, CALIBRATION, TIRES. And the computer will recalibrate itself for the new tire size.

It is scary that my dealer, Lexus customer service and a very large tire dealer all told me that new tire sizes would foul up the car computer and that recalibration was impossible.

I am using 265/70x17 BF Goodrich All terrain KO as a wintertire and also offroad without a problem.

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Thank you for your reply. I had heard all kind of problems could occur, but it sounds like the change works fine. I think that I will give the larger tires a try.

I have seen these wheels on a numbers of sites on the web.  Have any of you considered these for your GX?

Any comments on these wheels would be appreciated.

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I have these wheels on my 04 GX. Before you buy, let me tell you that almost no one understands what is happening with the wheel sensors.

The TRD wheel that they show will not work. What you need is:

00041-34960

Anything other than that will not work with the 20 degree wheel sensors that are wired into your ABS, skid control, and tire pressure sensor.

I did tons of research and got stuck by a guy in FL who did not know what was

going on. It worked out and he took the wheels back, but it was a hassle.

If you are interested, the wheels can be bought and mounted for about $1600. You will want to use your sensors, as each one is $105.

Mine were mounted at the Toyota dealership in Greensboro, NC. I have Hankook 285/50/20's and it looks sweet. They hit me for about $180 each, but it is one of the greatest looking tires on the market and is rated well against Michelin LTX series, which is an awesome tire. The ride has not changed significantly, but it did change it a little. In my opinion, the GX handles too much like a car in the first place.

If you're interested, e-mail me and I'll provide some more info. Attached is a pic.

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Did the change in diameter of your new wheels and tires bother any of the controls?

I have a 2005 GX470 with about 500 miles. Because I occasionly take the truck off road, I am considering a tire change. Bridgestone makes an excellent all terrain tire called the Revo. Off road, it is desireable to have a lot of contact area of the tire on the ground. The Revo comes in a 265/65X17 (standard on GX 470) and 265/70X17, but nothing wider which would give the same diameter as the standard 65's.

The 70 profile is about 1" greater in diameter than the standard size. If I buy and install the 70's will it mess up anything besides making the speedometer, mileage etc. slightly inaccurate? Can the computer be reset for the different size tires? Has anyone installed over sized tires? I asked the service department at my dealer, but he really wasn't sure what would happen.

Thanks for any help.