lbinh Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 I tried to solve the golf balls rattle in the front of my 93 es300. First I replaced the front strut mounts and struts, mechanic recommended. Rattle still remained. Then my mechanic said I needed to replace the Lower control arm bushings (demonstrated the LCA bushing play with a long crow bar). Got parts and labor quote from him, about $580 for new Lexus LCA's. The LCA from Lexus was about $180 each. I decided it was cheaper to buy parts on ebay (LH and RH LCA $49.99 each, $20 S/H - whole new arms, bushings and ball joints, Bestsupension was the seller) and install by my mechanic ($70 per side), $260 total for new LCA's. I also thought about pressing in new bushings but labor was $100 per side plus $50 per new bushing and you need to use your old LCA's and ball joints. Installed new LCA's from ebay and front end is raised higher quite a bit and the alignment is dangerously off by at least 90 degrees to the right (steering wheel). Plus, going highway speeds on curves with this problem and the car abruptly swerves when going over bumbs. Pretty scary at high speeds. Is it a normal alignment problem after LCA install or did my mechanic mess with the steering components? The steering feels very loose/soft and overcompensatingly sensitive. Will an alignment fix this and give me the normal steering feel again along with straghtening out my sterring wheel? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chargerucd Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Definitely, an alignemt is a must when replacing suspension parts as little "differences" on parts change where the wheel is pointing, definitely the toe settings are off, and it also sounds like you got some bump steer!! So yes, an alignment is is order. I tried to solve the golf balls rattle in the front of my 93 es300. First I replaced the front strut mounts and struts, mechanic recommended. Rattle still remained. Then my mechanic said I needed to replace the Lower control arm bushings (demonstrated the LCA bushing play with a long crow bar). Got parts and labor quote from him, about $580 for new Lexus LCA's. The LCA from Lexus was about $180 each. I decided it was cheaper to buy parts on ebay (LH and RH LCA $49.99 each, $20 S/H - whole new arms, bushings and ball joints, Bestsupension was the seller) and install by my mechanic ($70 per side), $260 total for new LCA's. I also thought about pressing in new bushings but labor was $100 per side plus $50 per new bushing and you need to use your old LCA's and ball joints. Installed new LCA's from ebay and front end is raised higher quite a bit and the alignment is dangerously off by at least 90 degrees to the right (steering wheel). Plus, going highway speeds on curves with this problem and the car abruptly swerves when going over bumbs. Pretty scary at high speeds. Is it a normal alignment problem after LCA install or did my mechanic mess with the steering components? The steering feels very loose/soft and overcompensatingly sensitive. Will an alignment fix this and give me the normal steering feel again along with straghtening out my sterring wheel? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbinh Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 I got the alignment at another alignment shop. They saw the car's camber was off right away with a visual inspection. The wheels sat like this \ / in the front wheels, really obvious. They put it on their alignment machine and it says it was only slightly off from specs. Strange since it sat like \ /. Makes me question their machine's accuracy. They went ahead and adjusted the camber to "within" specs. They needed to install an additional adjustment bolt($35 part) to fix the left wheel camber which was off more then they could adjust. The camber still looks off to me but it was a huge improvement than before. Could the current camber that looks slightly like this, \ / , be causing this dangerous bump steer? Is this the bump steer you are referring to when it automatically pulls quickly to one side by itself with the slightest turn over bumps? The alignment helped with the really bad bump steer a lot but it still remains. I am very concerned about this dangerous problem and I hope it isn't a bigger issue with something else. Would a camber that is slightly more like this / \ be better and get rid of the bump steer completely? My mechanic who installed the LCA's told me to go back to the alignment place for them to do it again. He said if that doesn't work then he says it is the aftermarket LCA's from eBay that is causing the bump steer. Thanks for the responses and Merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tckcumming Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I got the alignment at another alignment shop. They saw the car's camber was off right away with a visual inspection. The wheels sat like this \ / in the front wheels, really obvious. They put it on their alignment machine and it says it was only slightly off from specs. Strange since it sat like \ /. Makes me question their machine's accuracy. They went ahead and adjusted the camber to "within" specs. They needed to install an additional adjustment bolt($35 part) to fix the left wheel camber which was off more then they could adjust. The camber still looks off to me but it was a huge improvement than before. Could the current camber that looks slightly like this, \ / , be causing this dangerous bump steer? Is this the bump steer you are referring to when it automatically pulls quickly to one side by itself with the slightest turn over bumps? The alignment helped with the really bad bump steer a lot but it still remains. I am very concerned about this dangerous problem and I hope it isn't a bigger issue with something else. Would a camber that is slightly more like this / \ be better and get rid of the bump steer completely? My mechanic who installed the LCA's told me to go back to the alignment place for them to do it again. He said if that doesn't work then he says it is the aftermarket LCA's from eBay that is causing the bump steer. Thanks for the responses and Merry Christmas! Definitely get this fixed ASAP. It could be a minor alignment problem (fingers crossed), but it could also be something loose or broken or otherwise dangerous. I'm assuming your tires are in good shape and pressures are all in spec? Couldn't hurt to check that first. I would find the very best front end shop in your area and take it there for a diagnosis. The two shops that have looked at it already (your mechanic & the alignment place) are sure to claim that "the other guy did it" - that's just human nature and very common in the repair business, and gets you nowhere. You need a third party that has no axe to grind. Ask around at some local car clubs for the name of a shop they use. People who collect and restore cars are often quite picky and a bit "anal" about getting things done correctly, and therefore are a good source for competent repair shops, in my experience. If you hear the same shop name mentioned more than a few times, that's the place. Take your car there and just tell them what the car is doing on bumps or whatever and let them try to figure out what the deal is. If they DO find something wrong, you can get it repaired and then take the bill back to the other shop and make some noise about a refund. Works sometimes and worth a try. Good luck! tck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbinh Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 It is the blame game. I took it back to the Alignment shop and they brought up a good reason why the car has bump steering. I told him the recent maintenance history. 11-09-06 Front Struts and mounts replaced....Car drove fine, no bump steering but golf ball noises still there. 12-20-06 Front LCA's replaced ......No more golf ball noises but Really bad bump steering afterwards 12-22-06 4 wheel Alignment ..........Bump steering remains but less than before. The alignment guy stated that there is something wrong with the Strut mount, bearing, or coil spring install. Said it was not replaced correctly and that threw off the wheel alignment causing too much pressure from springs (hence the increased ride height). He said I never noticed it before because of the torn LCA bushings caused the car to sit too low and with the new Strut replacement they offset each other. He says it wasn't until I replaced the LCAs and that the problem came to light. The LCA restored the proper ride height but the new struts that were replaced incorrectly causing to much spring or increased ride height. Thus, causing too much positive camber and the wheels sit like this \ / and causing bump steer. It does make sense to me since I can really see the postive camber when the car is parked on an incline/hill and less weight is on the front end. When I park on an level/even surface, the camber is less positive and almost in proper alignment. The camber changes depending on the weight placed on the front end. If this is true then my mechanic who replaced the struts did not mark the sturt in order to reinstall the spring/bearing/mount back in correctly. Does this make sense to anyone else? I will take it back to my mechanic and hopefully he agrees and can fix the strut alignment. I feel like a tennis ball. Now at least somehow has a decent diagnosis to go on. I won't take it to a third party just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Sounds like you are on the right track. If the LCA's were designed for the car, then they shouldn't be the problem. Sounds like something was installed wrong, and the struts are a plausible root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbinh Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Sounds like you are on the right track. If the LCA's were designed for the car, then they shouldn't be the problem. Sounds like something was installed wrong, and the struts are a plausible root cause. Got a thrid party opinion. They said it is the Lower Ball Joints. They showed me with a crow bar and it had a lot of play in it. Grabbing the front wheels and wiggling them back in forth with front end jacked up. Each move on the wheel, left or right, the ball joints would flex and move with it. They said lower ball joints are suppose to be rigid with no movement, especially new ones. My regular mechanic first thought that and attempted to reuse the old LCA nuts on the ball joints but that didn't work. Then he assumed it was just an alignment problem. So, with lower ball joint movement, the toe setting would constantly change with strut or wheel articulation and cause bump steer and pulling on the steering wheel. Alignment will do nothing for that condition. The LCAs are new with new ball joints also from Best Suspension on eBay. I emailed them today about their defective product and I am waiting for a response. I am afraid with so much time wasted going to different shops that I am out of Best Supension's 14 day warranty. Bought them on 12/13/06 and delivered on 12/18/06. My mechanic says I might have to eat the cost of new ball joints that he can buy for me. Keeping the new LCAs but replacing the new defective ball joints with new quality ball joints. So, one LCA with defective lower ball joint from Best Suspension $49.99 plus new lower ball joint $45.00 comes out to $95.98 total. Still less expensive than Lexus LCA ($180 a piece w/o ball joints). Just wasted a lot of time running back and forth b/w shops. I will wait to hear from Best Supension on eBay before I buy new ball joints. Hopefully they will refund my money or give me new non-defective Ball joints. I have my doubts about both scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbinh Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 best Supsension (eBay) sent me new ball joints free of charge. installed by my mechanic for another $80 labor. he showed me the ball joints that originally came on the LCAs from best suspension. they were loose and could be easily manipulated by hand. apparently both were defective. he scuffed at the label stating made in China. Wasted lots of time going back and forth b/w shops but money wise still cheaper than buying Lexus LCAs. drove with the new ball joints and the bump steer seems to be gone. car still pulls right and needs alignment to get camber and toe settings in spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Wow, there's a strange fluke to have two new ball joints be loose and bad. Definitely defective. Nice to see the seller was reputable. Hopefully an alignment will be the last thing you will have to do. Thanks for the update. It's aways nice to see what the end cause was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbinh Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Went to another shop for alignment using newer alignment machine and they did a good job. Steers straight and camber is good now. All they did was adjust the toe settings which made the camber settings fall within specs without adjustments. And visually you can see the front tires are square to the road now. Now enjoying my new front suspension after all the headaches, defective replacement parts, multiple shops, and arguing. Thanks you all for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.