rickshobbies

Well, I got it back. I almost wish I had said no. The new tranny so far hasn't done any of the freaking out the old one did, but it shifts very abruptly. Hopefully it will smooth out in time. However, I got the car back with lots of fun new problems. The steering wheel is sitting off center by 45 degrees, I have a loud clunk in the front end whenever I hit a road bump (I can hear and feel it in the steering wheel), it's rattling like mad (I noticed several screws weren't installed on the plastic panels under the car, hopefully it's that simple) and it seems to want to stay in 4th gear for only about 2 seconds before shifting to 5th. This... is... really... ridiculous... It's a Lexus for god's sake! Back to the shop it goes...

Well, I picked up the car today. They said it would take about 2k miles to break in and for the computer to adjust to it and my driving style. The drive home showed promise though the shifts are more firm than before. I assume this is because it's new. They're not bad mind you, just more firm, especially noticable when it downshifts during deceleration. I do, however, need to take the car back to them. I guess they must have had to remove the steering linkage or something because my once dead-center steering wheel is decidedly turned to the left. I hate that. I like my steering wheels centered when the car is driving straight down the road. Anyway, I called them and they apologized and said they would fix that on Monday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this whole thing. Hopefully it will all turn out well. R

Yeah, my brother is a Master ASE tech and he is saying the same thing. I must admit I have me reservations about it but he tells me that by replacing the trans, they basically have admitted a problem and are obligated to fix it properly. I wonder what years this trans covers. Meaning, I wonder how many model years it was used for and if they made any improvements to it in later years that the new trans would have. I guess it's wishfull thinking, but I am hoping that the new trans will work better with the new programming. In the meantime, I get to drive an '07. I would almost rather drive a lesser car than what I own than the reverse. The '07 has substantially more power than my '02, so I'm driving it extra conservative so I don't spoil myself! Well, hopefully this work out for the best. R

All, Back in November '06, I purchased a used '02 ES300 with 45k miles on it. What I didn't notice when I test drove it were a few tranny quirks like jerking when slowing to 10 MPH and accelerating again. I discussed much of this on the forums at the time and I had found out about the flash upgrade. I had decided *not* to do the upgrade, but since the upgrade didn't address my biggest complaint, I asked my Lexus dealer about it (the 10MPH jerk thing) before the 30 day dealer warranty was up (I still have powertrain covered). Anyway, they looked the car over and said that there was a newer version of the software for my tranny available and that I had the early "update". It seemed that the car had been flashed with the TSB everyone talks about here but not the latest (presumably the "R" version). They finished their check and the guy came back and said he flashed the car. I figured that since the car had received the early update (some of you suspected this based on my tranny's behavior) that it made sense to just let them give it the latest one. Well... At first it was OK. It just shifted at higher (about 1k RPM higher) shift points than it did before. I really didn't care for this as the car wasn't as quiet as before, but I could learn to live with it. However, over time the tranny just started to degrade in performance. Shifting became worse and worse. Sometimes the car wouldn't upshift until nearly 6k RPM. I drive fairly conservatively, so this was happening with light to moderate throttle. Very odd. Also, I could be in bumper to bumper traffic moving at about 30 MPH and then give it a little gas and it would downshift, not one, but 2 gears down. This of course made the engine scream and the car lurch. Not good. The shifting in general just feels odd now and I've gone 1k miles since the flash was done. It's had plenty of time to learn my driving and adjust, so back to the dealer I went. The service supervisor test drove the car with me for about 10 miles. Of course, the car didn't do any of it's drastic nastiness but it did enough that the supervisor said it didn't "feel like a Lexus" and he wanted to do diagnostics on it. They gave me a 2007 ES to drive (the bastages!) and they kept the car 2 days. Apparently they had some kind of new device to hook up to it while they drove it around. I kept in contact with them. I asked them if they could simply roll back the flash by replacing the computer. They got back to me (they had apparently been talking to a Lexus technical hotline about the car constantly over the 2 days) and said that replacing the computer wouldn't help because they all had the same new flash (what's in the TSB) that I had. They said that even the new cars made in late 2003 got it off the factory line (interesting). He then went on to say that the flash isn't the cause for my issues and that the computer was fine. Now, they finally finished their diagnostic and told me that they wanted to REPLACE the TRANNY! Holy Smokes! None of this started until the flash was done (save for the 10MPH jerk thing) so it seems strange that it would be the tranny itself. They said they didn't want me to suffer through repair attempts and that even Lexus recommend a new tranny (apparently Lexus has to approve such repair anyway under warranty). Has anyone else had to have their tranny replaced at 46k miles?!? Could there have been a problem that the flash brought to light? The tech said that right now, it doesn't seem to be failing but it's not behaving like a Lexus should, so he wants to change it out. Also, it will be a remanufactured tranny which makes me nervous (though they said Lexus does this at the factory and not to worry). I just bought this car from their dealer 2 months and 2k miles ago. It just makes me sick... *sigh* :cries:

I REALLY think this is the root of the problem, since this particular problem is not at all isolated to this particular Lexus model or transmission and the problem only exists on cars with the drive by wire throttle. Even the all new ES350 still has this lag in there, even though its a lot less noticable then on ours. Most cars I've driven with electronic throttles have this hesitation in varying degrees of severity. Interesting. The way the mechanic described it, he said that on deceleration the computer at some point makes a determination that you are going to stop, not just slow down, and shuts down the fuel injectors, etc (probably part of the ULEV tuning). However, when you step on the gas again, it takes too long (according to the mechanic) to decide to turn everything back on and accelerate. I REALLY think this is the root of the problem, since this particular problem is not at all isolated to this particular Lexus model or transmission and the problem only exists on cars with the drive by wire throttle. Even the all new ES350 still has this lag in there, even though its a lot less noticable then on ours. Most cars I've driven with electronic throttles have this hesitation in varying degrees of severity. As you guys probably know, I traded in a 2003 ES mainly because of the shifting lag, plus other annoying characteristics of this transmission. My ES350 transmission on the other hand WITH an electronic throttle, shifts like a dream from any speed, whether slow or fast, upshifts and downshifts with virtually NO shifting lag, plus the car ALWAYS picks the proper gear, without a fuss, nor any kind of driver intervention........what I'm saying is I don't have to nurse this tranny to do what a transmission is supposed to do in the first place! Suffice it to say.......I'm completely happy with this new 6 speed transmission. Today I had a car full of passengers on a 75 mile trip through city and highway, and they couldn't get over how quiet, smooth, and comfortable this car is.....without a rattle anywhere. I absolutely love this car....it's a complete joy to drive. :) That's good to know. I test drove a G35 with a 6 speed and I was very impressed. I just couldn't find one that was clean enough for me. The Lexus is quieter and smoother than the G35 save for the transmission (though the G35 has significantly more power IMHO). At least I know that I don't have to rule a Lexus out next time. But, so far the flash is better so I will probably keep the car two years then move on.

I put this in another thread I had going but since this is stickied, I thought I'd put it here in case it helps someone on day. I took it to the dealer today for maintenance and asked them to check to see if the car had the flash. When I came to pick the car up, they told me they had flashed it. As it turns out, I had the non "R" version of the flash and they said that they when they see these they update them to the "R" automatically. I asked why and he just said that that's what Lexus wants them to do. He also said that it addresses the problem that I was experiencing but it doesn't eliminate it. So, I figured I would report what I experienced since I am now part of the flash club (that sounds bad somehow). Basically, my problem with the rolling stop and acceleration jerk is actually noticably better. It's not gone, but it's better. Otherwise, the tranny shifts smooth but I notice that it definately wants more r's from the engine before it shifts. What it did fix is something I didn't like but didn't really think of a problem per se. The tranny stays in 2nd gear a lot longer. Where it used to stay in second for a very short time, it now wrings it out a bit more. Maybe just a little longer than I'd like, actually, but I can get used to it. The car feels much peppier but it's also not as quiet. That's something a lot of people mentioned in other posts. So, we'll see how it goes. The Lexus mechanic did give me the story about the drive-by-wire thing being the issue. His opinion was that the cars needed a faster computer to process the sudden changes the driver makes quicker. He also mentioned the bit about needing premium fuel, but he said that is the case with and without the flash. He also cleared the "learned" data from the ECU. He said that the tranny absolutely freaked out with the flash using what was learned before and had to be completely wiped. Interesting. Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback. At least I understand the limitations of the tranny now. Hopefully getting the updated flash will turn out to be a good thing and at least better than with the first version of the flash that the car had.

I called the dealer and they said they had to check it with a scan tool to determine if it has the flash or not. I guess I'll have to go in there regardless. If it doesn't have the flash, I will probably skip it but if it does, I want to make sure its at the "R" revision. Well, I took it to the dealer today for maintenance and asked them to check to see if the car had the flash. When I came to pick the car up, they told me they had flashed it. As it turns out, I had the non "R" version of the flash and they said that they when they see these they update them to the "R" automatically. I asked why and he just said that that's what Lexus wants them to do. He also said that it addresses the problem that I was experiencing but it doesn't eliminate it. So, I figured I would report what I experienced since I am now part of the flash club (that sounds bad somehow). Basically, my problem with the rolling stop and acceleration jerk is actually noticably better. It's not gone, but it's better. Otherwise, the tranny shifts smooth but I notice that it definately wants more r's from the engine before it shifts. What it did fix is something I didn't like but didn't really think of a problem per se. The tranny stays in 2nd gear a lot longer. Where it used to stay in second for a very short time, it now wrings it out a bit more. Maybe just a little longer than I'd like, actually, but I can get used to it. The car feels much peppier but it's also not as quiet. That's something a lot of people mentioned in other posts. So, we'll see how it goes. The Lexus mechanic did give me the story about the drive-by-wire thing being the issue. His opinion was that the cars needed a faster computer to process the sudden changes the driver makes quicker. He also mentioned the bit about needing premium fuel, but he said that is the case with and without the flash. He also cleared the "learned" data from the ECU. He said that the tranny absolutely freaked out with the flash using what was learned before and had to be completely wiped. Interesting. Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback. At least I understand the limitations of the tranny now. Hopefully getting the updated flash will turn out to be a good thing and at least better than with the first version of the flash that the car had. R

My 02 ES300 has the "premium" sound system with the subwoofer mounted in the rear deck. The trouble is that it doesn't seem like that sub is really doing anything. It's working but it just doesn't produce much, especially at lower volumes where I normally listen to music. I have a few questions for those of you who may have done an upgrade on this: 1) How difficult is it to replace that sub? Does the grille come out via releasing plastic clips in the trunk to give access to the mounting screws? 2) Does it use standard mounting holes for a drop in replacement? 3) Is there an amp? If so, where is it? What has to be done in order to upgrade it? 4) Is the amp only there to power the sub or does it power the other speakers as well? (I thought perhaps the head unit powered the speakers on it's own. If anyone has a guide or any pics of this, that would be ideal. Thanks! R

I called the dealer and they said they had to check it with a scan tool to determine if it has the flash or not. I guess I'll have to go in there regardless. If it doesn't have the flash, I will probably skip it but if it does, I want to make sure its at the "R" revision.

This is my exact problem: "Reflash creates: 1 a buck or studder when slowing down to speeds less than 20 mph and then reaccelerating quickly. Its kind of like the tranny hasn't shifted to the lowest gear it wanted to and the ECU just told it so shift up again. Simple work around is to just anticipate your accelerations. The tricky place that this buck becomes apparent is when you execute a "rolling stop" or when coming up to a red light and it changes to green before you stop so you then press the gas heavily. 2. I find that when accelerating from a stop, it sounds like the tranny is slipping when shifting from 1st to second. It isn't but it sounds like it." So now I am wondering if my car already has the flash. If this wasn't a problem unless thhe flash was applied, then maybe it has. I looked under the hood for the sticker and found nothing. I asked the dealer to give me a print-out of any work that had been done though and there is no mention of anything other than the regular service intervals. Maybe I should request that they do a search with the VIN to determine if it had be done? Rick

Rick, I very rarely get the bucking anymore, because I have taylored my style to drive effectively/efficiently and swiftly without achieving the buck. The variance is the individual driving the reflashed vehicles. Lexus nor any other car manufacturer cannot control that variable. There were/are only two reflash versions. The original reflash came out August 3, 2003 (TC004-03) and then the second attempt that came out in April 2005 (TC004-03R). The R is for REVISED. Lexus has most likely abandoned any more attempts due to the partial success of the 4/05 reflash and the release of the new 6 speed tranny with the 07ES. steviej So would you say that the flash helped the bucking problem I am talking about, or is it all just in your learned driving technique? After reading all of the posts, it's hard to tell what actually got fixed and what the new flash did / caused. It would be great to see a pros and cons synopsis. Something that states what actually changes, good and bad, with the flash upgrade. There are posts that mention these things but is often not clear if what's being described is something new caused by the flash or simply something that it didn't address. R

Great info. Any idea on the steps needed to perform the upgrade on a 2002 ES300? I am hoping I don't have to pull the seat. Looking in the trunk, it looks like 4 clips and the grill comes off then I would guess that would expose the screws for the sub. If so, it should be an easy swap. R

Yeah, I really don't know anyone else with an ES300. Thanks for the offer, though. All I know is that having it buck when slowing to around 5mph is really starting to annoy me. If the flash would fix that, I'd really consider it. Did it address that for you? It almost seems like there is a variance in the cars out there are some people report good results while others report poor results. My appointment is scheduled for Monday, so I am hoping to make a sound decision before then. I also see references to different versions on this flash. It sounds like there have been several updates, the newest I've found in 2005. Any idea where they are at now that it's 2006? Rick

In the thread you told me about, you described my problem exactly: Test 1 1- Drive at a normal speed 2- Take your foot off the accelerator(as if you're in stop & go traffic) 3- When the car decelerates to about 2 mph or lower, press the accelerator normally(not flooring it), and see if the car goes into a lower gear immediately, or it hunts for a gear to go into and then lurches forward. So, I take it that even the latest iteration of the flash doesn't address this? Supposedly there was a newer version released in 2005. This is the only problem I've noticed (and it's a big one for me as I am a stickler for smooth driving) and if it doesn't fix this, then there is no point. Too bad, really. Such a nice care otherwise. Thanks for the info, Rick

I have the premium sound system in my 2002 ES300 (not the Mark Levinson). The system sounds terrific to me save for the lack of low end bass. It has a subwoofer in the rear deck and I am think about replacing it. It looks like you can remove the grille via clips you can see from inside the trunk, but I'm not sure. I can't find anything about this via the forum search, so I thought I'd ask to see if any of you have done this. There is supposedly an amp hidden somewhere, so my first thought is that perhaps a higher quality, more efficient sub would suffice. I only play the music at low volumes, so I don't know if this would help or if I would need to add an amp for the sub or not. Any comments? R