How To Tell If A/c Compressor Is Low On Oil?

[ThunderRiver]

It is a 1994 LS400, and I would like to know if there is a way to check the oil level in the A/C compressor, and if it is low. What type of oil does it use and can I actually just add it myself?

Finally, please correct me if I am wrong, but 1994 LS400 uses NIPPENDENSO 10PA20C as its AC compressor right?

Thanks

[obergc]

I think that is the right number for the a/c compressor, that's what my 03 LS has in it and unfortunately there is no way to check the oil level in the system, the oil circulates with the gas and some portions of the oil is retained in the receiver/drier, the condensor, the evaporator, etc. If you replace any component of the a/c system, the shop manual tells you how much oil to replace in the system to keep the oil level correct.

[LEXIE]

TR--

i know this is a controversial issue but i converted my a/c system from R12 to R12a refrigerant and it is working beautifully. added three cans at cost of $23...only takes 1/3 amount to fully charge vs R12... 12 0z R12a vs about 36 oz for R12 at some rediculously high cost.

well, lets not get into the pros and cons of that change but the point i

was going to make is when i made the conversion, i totally evacuated

the system before adding the new refrigerant plus i added oil

( precharged can oil/refrig combo). the place i bought the refrig from also sold little test devices that indicated your oil level in the a/c system.

they are pretty neat. it is a clear plastic tube, maybe 2" long and a bit

larger than pencil diameter and is filled with an absorbant white fiberous

material. you just stick one end of the tube on the low pressure port

where you add regrig and press in for a second and the refrigerant passes through the filter media. if the media shows wet to the top of the plastic segment you are in good shape. if close to half wet, you need to add oil.

the media will also tell how clean the system is...i.e., if chocolate, brown

or orange..dirty. light brown, borderline and pale yellow or white, clean. mine was totally white in color after the test and showed the proper oil level, following the oil add.

i am not sure if these are sold in auto patrs supply shops but if you want

to order online, here is the web site:

http://autorefrigerants.com/oilphasetester.htm

hope this is of some help.

lexie

[monarch]

This pdf tells you which compressor oil to use http://www.clublexus.com/index.php/article...view/1851/1/38/

It is not necessary to check the compressor oil since it isn't consumed during use and never runs low unless the system developes a sudden and violent refrigerant leak. In that case the oil will leak out at the point where the refrigerant gas is leaking.

Also, as obergc mentioned, if the system is ever disharged to replace a failed component, a certain amount of new oil will have to be added. The factory manual tells you how much oil to add depending on the component that is replaced.

[tansupplyman]

Have R12a in 3 autos! You do not need to remove or change oil but you do need to pull a vacuum on system--not compatible with R12 or 134--cannot mix!!![not in the LS400 since it was already 134!!!]

site on 12a:

http://www.maxifrig.com/

[monarch]

For 50 years auto air conditioning manufacturers and home air conditioner manufacturers have used only non-flammable, non-toxic refrigerants.

Maxifrig is a flammable, butane based refrigerant. So a system converted to Maxifrig essentially will have lighter fluid circulating around inside the air conditioner plumbing underneath the dashboard (inside the car!)

[LEXIE]

monarch--

i respect your opinions and really did not want to get into a discussion with reference to R12a vs R12 or R134a for that matter.

rather than me try to justify its use in the USA, you may want to research this on the net if you have not already done so.

briefly:

the USA is the only major country not using this non-halogen containing

gas as a refrigerant and it is costing this country billions of dollars a

year in energy costs. the energy requird to compress methane, propane, butane or blends of these gases is significantly less than halogen containing gases and the efficiency of halide free gases upon expansion is much greater thus giving you a double benifit in doing its job as a refrigerant.

major countries like australia, japan, canada, china, probably all of europe...on and on have been using these gases as refrigs for years but here in the USA there is extreme political pressure and mainly from some big time chemical companies like dupont to remain status quo with our current gasses. billions of dollars sales at stake.

look at it this way, some folks are driving driving a car/truck around with a 50 gallon tank of propane in the bed or under the trunk and the whole engine full of propane vs 12 oz of R12a in your a/c system. actually the gases sold here in the us and probably all over the world, have a few parts per million of a highly odorous pine-scent compound added any minor leak can be detected rather quickly. i picked the odor up when i charged my car with the R12a and it is pretty powerful.

again, not trying to justify my conversion but i sincerely think the US is way behind here and with the arab countries sticking it to us on oil prices we really need to do something here at home to relieve our energy dependency on foreign supply.

research it a bit and you will be supprised at what you will find...even greenpeace is all for us converting.

lexie

[monarch]

Lexie, I've rented cars in Canada, Australia, Mexico and Brazil

and they all had the traditional non-flammable R12 or R134a

refrigerants.

I am unaware of any cars sold in Japan or Europe that

come factory equipped with flammable refrigerants. Are you

aware of any?

The air conditioner evaporator on virtally all cars is located under the

dashboard INSIDE the car. If a flammable refrigerant is used,

that means both liquid and gaseous refrigerant is circulating around

inside the evaporator - around a cup to a pint's worth.

In a traffic collision that could mean a cup or two of butane could

leak, catch fire and / or explode. If it caught fire it would

act just like lighter fluid and burn up the dashboard and

carpeting.

In car accidents, it is common for people end up unconcious, strapped

to their seat belts. These people would risk burning up inside

their cars due to a flammable refrigerant.

Just the other day there was broadside accident at 45 mph

near my home and I had to help unbuckle and remove the

unconcious lady driver. There was no fire, thank God, but there could

have been if a flammable refrigerant like Maxifrig had been used.

The driver could have been roasted alive, strapped to her seatbelt

and no one could have rescued her due to the heat and flames (it

typically takes 10-15 minutes for emergency people with fire extinguishers

to arrive at the scene of an accident).

[LEXIE]

monarch--

i guess it kind of falls into the category of "do i really want to take this

plane trip to wherever with all this terrorist activity going on". yes

a car cabin explosion is possible but just as dangerous are the toxic fumes that r12 and r134a put out (extremely toxic as compared to

r12). one could make a case for about any situation and all are possibe

but highly unlikely.

heres some stuff that may be of interest:

HYDROCARBON REFRIGERANT SAFETY

Like many commonly used commodities such as petrol, natural gas and electricity, the use of HC refrigerants requires common sense and observance of adequate safety procedures. It is important to understand the volume of hydrocarbon refrigerant involved m motor vehicle air conditioning and refrigeration system applications. A typical car air conditioning system contains about a coffee cup full of liquid refrigerant, and a small refrigerator contains about an eggcup full.

Australian Standard AS 1596 - 1989 (LP Gas Storage and Handling) established safety guidelines for storage and handling of liquefied petroleum gas products, which include hydrocarbon refrigerants. Australian Standard AS 1677 (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Safety), recently, completed and soon to be released, includes comprehensive procedures for the use of all refrigerants, including Hydrocarbons.

In all applications hydrocarbon refrigerants are much safer for the consumer than chemical refrigerants, most of which degrade producing toxic by products following accidental release in the presence of an adequate heat source.

Research by International risk assessment engineers, the Arthur D. Little Group indicates an extremely low risk to motor vehicle occupants from accidental release of hydrocarbon refrigerant. The School of Mechanical & Manufacturing Engineering, University of N.S.W., is a world leader in the application of these products, and have documented* the safety and efficiency of HC refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioners. There is also overwhelming evidence of the environmental benefits and safety of HC refrigerants.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have there been studies to determine the potential level of incidence, in terms of ignited automobile compartment leakage?

Internationally respected risk assessors Arthur D. Little, in a detailed UK-based study, estimated the risk of an ignited refrigerant leak in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle as being in the area of 3 in 10 million. Their findings, from a local perspective, mean that if every car in the USA (some 50 to 60 million vehicles) were to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant such an accident might occur once in every 50 years.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The most significant point to be made is that there is a total lack of technical evidence to refute the case for hydrocarbon refrigerants.

Australia is particularly vulnerable to the effects of Global Warming and the degradation of the Ozone layer. At this time the supply of CFC refrigerants is practically exhausted. HCFC (hydro chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants) do less damage to the Ozone Layer than CFCs but are still detrimental and a cause of global warming. Currently it is intended that HCFCs be phased out by the year 2015, or sooner. Several European countries have decided on an earlier phase out period for HCFCS. EFC refrigerants (of which RI 34a is one of the more common types) have not been a universal success. Apart from having a very high Global Warming Potential, they have proved to be excessive energy consumers in most applications; poor performers in high ambient conditions- and are particularly dangerous when exposed to moisture or a heat source causing degradation. CFC, HCFC and HFC refrigerants are easily replaced with a hydrocarbon product.

All major refrigerator manufacturers in Europe have universally adopted hydrocarbon refrigerants. The refrigeration systems of four out of five of the largest UK supermarket chains have been - converted over to HC refrigerants with the obvious advantages of being recognized as environmentally I conscious, while energy savings have been outstanding. Chinese refrigerator design and manufacture is being geared to hydrocarbon technology instead of the American HFC chemical refrigerants.

The first Australian hydrocarbon refrigerator, using 'hydrocarbon refrigerants was produced by Email in February 1995. Email was promptly presented with a Federal award for their contribution to the protection of the environment. Greenpeace also commended the occasion. Email will be providing the latest hydrocarbon technology refrigerators for the Olympic villa-e at the Sydney 2000 Olympics.

Hydrocarbon refrigerants has become the dominant technology in Europe. Many models of refrigerators with hydrocarbon refrigerants are now on sale in Germany, Austria, Denmark, France, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland, and Britain. All of the major European companies, Bosch, Siemens, Electrolux. Liebherr, Miele, Quelle, Vestfrost, Whirlpool Bauknecht, Foron, and AEG are marketing Greenfreeze technology based refrigerators. 100 percent of the German market has converted to hydrocarbon refrigerants technology.

END OF ARTICLE

i guess it boils down to what your comfort level is to different things.

like one could make a case if they continue to allow 134a to be used

we we all die of cancer due to its contribution to the ozone problems,

altho it is somewhat better than r12, it still " ain't right".

would you drive a propane fuled vehicle knowing you are in a potential

time bomb should a rear end collision occur?? life is a crap shoot but we

do what we gotta do.

lexie

[JPI]

Lexie,

You are writting a book here. Good information provided though. But you didn't answer his question. If the A/C system running properly then you don't need to check for oil level and you can't tell if the system is low on oil. When you replace an A/C components you will need to add 2-3oz of oil. The new A/c compressor already comes with the oil. You can't mix R12 and R134a oil together, they will destroy the compressor in a matter or weeks.

JPI

[LEXIE]

jp--

sorry for the diversion... i guess this happens once in a while but i did

give TR an answer directly related to his question in my very first post

on this subject.

are the little oil testers i mentioned not a satisfactory way to determine

both oil and contamination level. it sure seemed to work ok for me

when tested my unit.

L