Green Coolant In My 93

[monarch]

If you run ANY EG coolant for 5 years, good luck.

As I originally posted about Toyota Long Life Coolant, it is not special never has been. What is so hard to get????:chairshot:

Check out Heavy-duty anti-freezes that conform to a GM spec (6038M or 1899), ASTM D-4985 & ASTM D-6210. Again, Lexus is not special, nor has it ever been. They have been using the stuff (silicate free) for years in Peterbilt, Mach and International rigs/engines. If they comply to the proper GM spec it is fine for all alu and seals.

I do not see any chemical properties in PPM, SG, specific volume of Lexus coolant, so I do not know what the % means (in practice). I know about what Lexus supplied since I supplied the data, but again not “out of the norm” here at all.

Also you are incorrect with the silicate free. Again, many heavy duty coolants are silicate free. Hell I have been using the brand for over 10 years. Again, nothing new.

I am not getting mad, but the point is that Lexus/Toyota is nothing special or new. It is just normal EG based silicate free coolant, big deal. Again, I could tell you 10 different kinds that are out there.

Please provide the name an antifreeze that is 100% free of silicates and borates and contains this hybrid organic acid corrosion inhibitor chemistry:

85-90% Ethylene Glycol and

less than 5% Diethylene Glycol

less than 5% hydrated inorganic acids and organic acid salts

less than 5% water

So far, not a single person on several Toyota related forums, including ownes of fleets of diesel trucks, has been able to name even ONE antifreeze that is chemically identical to Toyota

Long Life Coolant.

The diesel fleet owners says the only 100% silicate free antifreezes available are the Dexcool types which have the sludge problem if air gets into the cooling system.

[mburnickas]

Please stop at any rig place to ask. Since you seem to know alot out this, you should be able to find these with very quickly.

Again, nothing new. They are 100% silicate free and conform to the proper standards. I do not see Lexus conforming to them or you even posting them.

Again, you say it is so special. When, it is not. If is so special they would have patents on it.

I am not going to debate "to and from" since you have provided nothing. I at least provided what Lexus sent ME? Do you have a chemical break down or anything?

What is the chemical braken (ash, etc) down of Lexus coolant? I can find these others very easy.

If it is ok for a $300K truck, then it is ok for a $30K car. Unless Lexus advances in this area.

***You can use any EG coolant that is low silicate.

[SKperformance]

wow this thread is getting long.

Just to summarize this whole conversation.

MB is saying it is ok to use green coolant.

Monarch says it is harmful or not recommended

both agree the long life by toyota is good or the same.

So for a few dollars why not just stick with the OEM sold and originally recommened fluid?

I am all for change when it comes to making a drastic improvment .

But if there is none......then why?

I didn't buy a Lexus to be cheap about it.

I am also the biggest tightass over money but i always give my cars the best i can.

[exdotcomer]

wow- very informative thread!. I'm running low(actually below the low line)on the reservoir ( I just checked - the engine was cold, and has not been driven since saturday)- what shoudl i put it in it?

[SKperformance]

what shoudl i put it in it?

whats in there now

we already know one person will say anything

others will say match it to what you have.

your choice as you have quite a bit of opinions to look at

[mburnickas]

I am not saying anything skperformance. I just posted at what LEXUS told me. I will post it again below.

I will say this since there is some incorrect data.

=========================================

1) Monarch is wrong per Lexus. As noted in the below statement from Lexus, the manufacture, you can use ANY EG coolant, case closed. See paragraph #4 on the "Lexus letter".

2) Monarch stated there is only #1 other 100% silicate free coolant, which again is wrong. I counted several online from the people I buy from. Also many manufactures <1 PPM, they say zero.

3) Monarch nor Lexus can PROVE that using using Toyota Long Life Coolant does anything better then other. No one, not even Lexus can PROVE that Toyota Long Life Coolant benefits over other EG coolants; if it did, Lexus would recommend them. It would be dumb not to since it gets more $$$$ for them in the end, when people buy their coolant.

4) As long as the coolant meets or exceeds the spec I noted in the previous threads you are fine (GM spec 6038M or 1899, ASTM D-4985 & ASTM D-6210). These pertain to low/no silicates, alu rads and other chemical issues.

Also Dex-cool is just fine. If you trap air in system, then sys is up. Most diesel rad are sealed and do not have a rad cap or "overflow" tank.

skperformance ----It is nothing about being cheap. I just comes down to, no one can PROVE that Lexus coolants are any better then other EG silicate free coolants. Hell, before me there was not even a % brake down on this forum!

Just follow what Lexus stated and you are 100% correct, per Lexus.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Burnickas:

Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department regarding your 1998 ES 300.

Lexus recommends Genuine Toyota/Lexus coolant. Here are the ingredients:

85-90% Ethylene Glycol

less than 5% Diethylene Glycol

less than 5% hydrated inorganic acids and organic acid salts

less than 5% water

If the cooling system is being serviced, a 50% solution of this type of anti-freeze and water is recommended or a sufficient quantity to provide protection to -31 degrees F.

**** If Genuine Toyota/Lexus coolant is not used, then the aftermarket coolant must be ethylene-glycol based. *****

Since coolant is poisonous if swallowed, we dye the coolant so that it cannot be mistaken for water. Otherwise, there is no special significance to the color choice. Aftermarket coolants can typically be found in yellow-green, blue, and orange.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[monarch]

Lexus STRONGLY recommends the use of genuine Toyota Long Life

Coolant because it has been specifically formulated for use in Lexus vehicles

and because of technical problems that can occur when using other ethylene

glycol based coolants that are not chemically identical to the

Toyota Coolant. And so far as anyone knows here, no available aftermarket

coolant is chemically identical to Toyota Coolant. Specifically, the 2003

ES300 owners manual states:

"We have used "Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant" in your Lexus vehicle.

In order to avoid technical problems, we strongly recommend using

Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant or equivalent"

"The engine cooling system is integral to maximizing performance of

your Lexus vehicle. In line with this, it is strongly recommended that

you use "Toyota Genuine Long Life Coolant" for protecting the system,

as it is an ethylene-glycol based premium antifreeze coolant with

excellent corrosion protection properties that has been specifically

formulated for use in Lexus vehicles."

I did not say "there is only one other 100% silicate free coolant" on

the market. I said there are no other 100% silicate free coolants on the

market that use the same hybrid organic acid corrosion inhibitor chemistry

used in the genuine Toyota Long Life Coolant. So far, no one has been able to

name a single aftermarket coolant that is chemically identical to Toyota

Coolant.

With regard to the statement "no one can PROVE that Lexus coolants

are any better than other ethylene glycol silicate free coolant" well we

do know the only popular 100% silicate free coolants on the market

are the Dexcool approved coolants like Havoline Extended Life Coolant

and Prestone 5/150 Extended Life Coolant.

And we know some owners have reported horrible sludge buildups in their

systems when using these NON-HYBRID organic acid silicate free coolants

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/deathcool.jpg. For those wanting to

read more about the problems owners have experienced with the

NON-HYBRID organic acid silicate free coolants you can find information here:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=fp-pull-web-t&p=deathcool+

[mburnickas]

***********Edited**************

If you were right it would only be for a 2003 and up or Lexus is BS/lying to me, their customers with their online Q/A page for owners

Also you state a 2003 when the original topic was a car 10 years OLDER then yours.

The post you posted might be good for a 2003 but not my 1998 or the post at hand (1993).

Moving forward, I would still disagree since I can find several anti-freezes that:

· Phosphate/NitriteMolybdate chemical inhibitor system

· non-corrosive medium (heavy duty chemical inhibitor.)

· demineralized water

· silicate-free,

· Formulated Borate/Nitrite

·

1) Again No one, not even Lexus can PROVE that Toyota Long Life Coolant benefits over other EG coolants; Yes ,you have a recommendation from Lexus for a 2003. I do not have that in my manual nor from Lexus online.

Also neither you nor I know the TYPICAL PROPERTIES of Lexus coolant. All I have is what I found out. Based on that info, what I have read on this forum and others, it is not special. If it was, tell me the amount of ash, Specific Gravity, Pounds per Gallon , pH (Undiluted), Reserve Alkalinity (Undiluted), Freeze Point, oF (Undiluted) , Boiling Point,oF (Undiluted), Water, wt % (Approx.), Total Glycol, wt. %, Glassware Corrosion Test, Water Pump Cavitation Test, Aluminum Corrosion TEST, Simulated Service Test, Ash Content, mass % & Chloride, wt % (ppm). All these are in the ASTM spec I noted.

Also as you noted, there is no chemically identical to Toyota Coolant. Well my friend what does the chemical property buy you? So far this goes back to #1

2) you stated Dex-cool has had some issues. As I am sure some is the coolants fault and some is the operator (major). I can’t comment on your picture since I do not know the complete story or data behind it. Hell, I can produce a photo in Photoshop and put a Lexus bottle by it. So that take the validity out of that.

As you lastly noted, I am sure when you put a seach criteria like that in yahoo, you will get results only as good as the original search term.

To a concerned owner, they would not look up “deathcool” but maybe Dex-cool is the more correct term. Also when you use the term “deathcool” I would not relay 100% on the info. Look at the sites it goes too.

SW03ES--I LOVE debates!!!! :) :) :)

There is case closed when the info came from the manufacture or “horses mouth” as I have posted

Ding..... Ding, round 4 is over. Trust me I am not heated at all. I live for deabtes since this is what the truth comes out!

Edited April 28, 2004 by mburnickas

[SW03ES]

Man you need to relax. Let other people have opinions, they're entitled to them. All Monarch is saying is that Lexus reccomends Toyota based fluids, which they do according to your own email. Has he said they REQUIRE them? No. So that leaves the owner with a choice, should they use the Toyota coolant or use aftermarket?

There's no such thing as "case closed" here, everyone is entitled to an opinion and is entitled to expressing that opinion. We started out doing this here but its rapidly headed in the wrong direction.

[mburnickas]

OH MY! LOOK WHAT I FOUND

http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/toyota.jpg

:D :D :D :D :D :D

KIDDING

[SW03ES]

Dun Dun Dun! (or insert dramatic music here)

LOL

[steviej]

wow- very informative thread!. I'm running low(actually below the low line)on the reservoir ( I just checked - the engine was cold, and has not been driven since saturday)- what shoudl i put it in it?

exdotcomer, don't worry, you were not forgotten in the midst of this debating.

If you can still see some coolant in your overflow jug--REGARDLESS OF COLOR--then the safest and easiest thing to add is distilled water.....<$1/gallon. Just bring the level up to where it needs be. It will only take a cup or two. This amount of water added will not drastically throw off the ratio of coolant/water already in the system.

However, if you find that you need to do this often, then have your system pressure tested for leaks and find out where it is going. You will get some minimal loss due to evaporation but you shouldn't have to constantly "top it off".

steviej

[SKperformance]

OH MY! LOOK WHAT I FOUND

http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/toyota.jpg

:D :D :D :D :D :D

KIDDING

but why would toyota coolant be in a GSXr ?

And even though you have repeated yourself a numerous amount of times and stated some very good points.It still comes down to money. NO ONE says the long life is bad so why switch other than say i tried something i belive to work and it does and saved a few cents.

I see no need in that.

What i stated needs no answers.

[mburnickas]

Let me say this first since people think I am going "nuts" so I read. This is a debate on coolants and these are vaild points I am bringing up. Maybe Lexus changed "mid stream" they manuals but my 1998 (and I guess older) to not say anying about coolant issues. They, Lexus, have not sent letter etc that using other EG coolants will do anything.

That being said, let gooooooooo :D

KIDDING

but why would toyota coolant be in a GSXr ? I would never use this coolant in my GSXR, not in my cars or anything. Again not enough data to PROVE it works better then other. Only thing people can say is that they have been using it. I can get more info (raw data) from other coolants that publicly display this data, proprietary info or not. That is the real proof to what the coolant is composed of.

And even though you have repeated yourself a numerous amount of times and stated some very good points. It still comes down to money. NO ONE says the long life is bad so why switch other than say i tried something i belive to work and it does and saved a few cents. I see no need in that.

I does not come down to money. I will repeat myself again it comes down to Lexus/Toyota proving and supplying the data to PROVE or show their product excels in these areas. All I see if people saying it works. All I see is that Lexus recommends, that means little to nothing. They can recommends all they want but they do not state you MUST use their coolant to stop any issues down the road. All I see print from Lexus in a 2003 manual is what monarch stated. They say to "avoid technical problems, Lexus recommends in a 2003 model....." If the problems are so severe why not state use only .......When Lexus leaves the door open in the field, they are only recommending, not vital that you use it. Also what defines a technical problems. I do not know what that is? A technical problems could be someing that is so small or something as major as an engine.

Maybe a recommendation is good for some; but, not for me I need proof. So me the standards and/or specifications it passes. No on can say it works the best, only that it is equal to other EG coolants per Lexus for my model (as I posted). It also is easier for me to buy other equal coolants at truck dealer that are closer to my home. Price again is not the issue. That is only on of the “bullets” in the list.

Why switch if it works? If that were the case, then we could still be driving model A car and rotary phones. They all worked just fine.

To close, based on what Lexus sent me I have been using non-Lexus coolant for almost 40+K miles. It works just fine in my 1998. I am not making a global blanket statement for all years and models, but in a 1998 or older it is just fine.

[mburnickas]

Here is some good info I put on my account.

http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/coolant.pdf

[Lexusfreak]

sk is bang on about one thing he mentioned about this being a long thread lol

:whistles:

[exdotcomer]

Thanks steviej !

Als0- this thread makes for great reading while working the graveyard shift! thanks to all. 8)

[mburnickas]

It is also good material when you "need some reading material"...

[steviej]

  It is also good material when you "need some reading material"...

are you saying that you take your computer to the bathroom?....now this thread has really gone out the window.

______________________________

exdotcomer......not a problem dude.

sj

[mburnickas]

Not that bad, not yet! Lets just say they keep alot of color toner at work!

[es300man]

Great timing! I have to buy coolant for my '93 ES300 Saturday. Changed out engine with a imported japanese used engine and am doing the final install. Now after reading all these comments....I have no idea what coolant to buy!!! I need to buy a ford or something, drive the out of it and make no decisions about anything! :chairshot:

[Lexusfreak]

ES, you won't go wrong with putting the Lexus/Toyota coolant that's recommended for your 93'. On top of that, I would just suggest to change it ever 2 years or 30,000 miles. ;)

[es300man]

ES, you won't go wrong with putting the Lexus/Toyota coolant that's recommended for your 93'. On top of that, I would just suggest to change it ever 2 years or 30,000 miles. ;)

I did just that this morning. Went to Toyota and bought their coolant. Figured I take most of you all's advice. Thanks!

[gav_logan]

Oooooh, I'm feeling all flustered...

All this commotion over lil old me?

hehe, just kidding.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to save money here, I was just checking to see if the mechanic that changed my coolant (after flushing everything) had done the wrong thing (worth noting that I did tell him it should be red coolant).

So, from anyone who's still interested, in 10 words or less, should Gav go back to the mechanics and demand the original coolant or just be happy with what he has?

MUCH appreciation to you guys btw.

[Lexusfreak]

I'd prefer the Lexus / Toyota red coolant personally (I just did a cooling system flush 2 months ago with it). Thats just my 2 cents, but I think this "debate" isn't quite over yet lol Change it ever 2 years / 30000 miles & live happily ever after. ;) B)