Question On Cpo (Certified Pre-Owned) - What Is The Proof I Need To Ke

[ct200h2011]

Hello, and thank you for the forum. First post, and (would be) first time buyers of Lexus.

Today we visited and finalized to buy a ct200h 2011 model, mainly for its mileage/hybrid part. The advertised price was 20,500. We negotiated to 18,800, and then the salesman played the trick that this does not cover the CPO (certified warranty). For that he asked to add 1k, so we came back to 19,800. Since it was too late, they could not finish the paperwork and we gave a check for 1,000 as an advance. Now we have a few questions to clarify.

1. The car was advertised as CPO, can the dealer (authorized) can use the bargain trick to make it non- CPO vs. CPO by changing the price? The car is listed as Lexus certified even on the Lexus website.

2. Now that we have agreed to pay extra for CPO, what proof should we ask for as a record.

3. Lexus says there is a 161 points check the certified goes through. The Lexus website lists that it checks for dents and scratches. See http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf

- Can we get the checklist for the car we are buying?

Also, we see a lot of scratches and dents, does it mean it was not properly inspected?

4. Any other pointer to keep in mind? Anything specific to ct200h - warranty, maintenance, etc.?

Again, thank you for your help guidance in advance, we expect to visit the forum much more in the future.

- R

[lenore]

I would hold them to dents and scratches even if they have to get dent masters to fix them..Look vehicle over carefully, if any fogged headlights, or other problems tell them to fix them in advance. CPO means the car is clean and near perfect.....

[VBdenny]

"Certified" is as good as the dealer. I promise you that if I ever had the intention of ripping someone off, I would certify it. Seems like a warm fuzzy the dealers use to extract additional money from buyers. Of course i am a cynic so I'll ask my friend who is a warranty manager and let you know. Most people like CARFAX a lot but keep in mind that often doesn't include "side" jobs.

[LEX-SV]

R. - Did you buy the CPO CT?

[midwesterner]

My understanding of any CPO car, any make, is that the certification is related to warranty. Seems possible that one might negotiate a lower price by sacrificing the CPO status, but that ought to be clearly stated as an option. And it begs the question as to the car's status with Lexus if it's already been certified and that status if relinquished.

In the construction equipment world, we used to offer certified rebuild construction equipment,although there was no option to forgo the warranty for a lower price (whatever negotiated price included the certified rebuild status). These were essentially machines that had been inspected, and certain key components rebuilt or replaced, and the machine offered with a warranty. As I recall, the buyer could get something like 90% of new machine capability for maybe 75% of the price.

Not necessarily the same with cars, as I think there is typically no major component replacement or rebuild. Probably varies a bit with manufacturer, but key thing is that car passes certain inspection criteria to meet CPO requirement and then includes the warranty.

However, I'd regard a car as advertised CPO and shown as CPO by the factory to be CPO regardless of the negotiated price. If the CPO status was negotiable, then the salesman should have made that clear at the outset. Consequence: I would be very suspicious of the deal. Might try going to the sales or general mgr, but that kind of manipulation sounds like accepted policy and implies the dealership ethics are questionable -- so likely not much help. Might be worth contacting the Lexus rep.t

That's a lot of hassle for a questionable deal (and maybe questionable dealership).

Somebody on the CT section can probably advise on specific CT issues, but in the same position, I'd look elsewhere,and would consider other Lexus models as well.

So, R, if you bought it, what was the outcome?

[LEX-SV]

Regarding the Lexus CPO certification that comes with a Lexus CPO warranty. The Lexus dealership can remove the CPO warranty coverage on an already "certified" car, therefore reducing the cost to dealer and hopefully the price to buyer too. I've experienced an offer/deal of this kind before (Lexus specifically), but declined the offer preferring to negotiate the price based on warranty to be included. But that situation should be very clear. A dealership that presents this kind of situation in a vague/confusing or unclear manner is not worth dealing with.

Separately the issue of CPO certification that includes meeting specific criteria (including miles/age/accident history) and nearly always involves some amount of maintenance, repair and refurbishment. A properly certified car with our without the CPO warranty is still the same car.

[midwesterner]

Steve,

You stated it better than I did.

While we're on the subject, my dealer called this morning to inform me that Lexus will replace the driver's seat in my GS350 because of unusual wear in the leather on the left bolster. I had inquired during a recent service, and the service adviser took photos that he sent to Lexus.

My experience with the dealer here has been straightforward and free of the kinds of chicanery that seem to mark the experience of many posting on this site. My daughter and son-in-law had equally good results with the Chicago dealer.

[LEX-SV]

Thanks Stephen.

After going back and reading OP's post #1 again, the dealership experience was not the best. Regarding question #2., the dealership should provide a copy of the CPO checklist (completed and signed) with or without the CPO warranty.

My Lexus dealership (in Fremont) experience has also been straightforward and without deception from day 1. That's a main reason why they continue to get my service business 6 years later, plus I'm fortunate to have an excellent service writer that I deal exclusively with.

[lenore]

If you are fortunate enough to deal with a honest dealer, than continue. If otherwise run and search for an independent or Toyota Dealership that treats you well.

[LEX-SV]

Lexus CPO certification and warranty adds value, and yes it's big profitable business. It's administered well with oversight by Lexus corporate. It is not some easy way for dealers to "rip off" Lexus used car buyers. Many used Lexus vehicles never meet the criteria for certification, (and for those buyer beware as they say), they are are often wholesaled to be sold through other less savory channels. In the rare case where a non compliant car slips through inspection process, buyer has legal recourse. These CPO warranties are not questionable aftermarket warranties sold by warranty salespeople/managers.

Only a Lexus dealership can sell CPO car with valid CPO warranty. The CPO warranty is only transferable if sale by owner is directly to another private party.

[Nowie]

Welcome aboard! If you google Lexus CPO vehicles, it will basically tell you everything you need to know about the cars they sell.

Only selected vehicles can be certified and has to be less than 70,000 miles in the odometer. Yes you absolutely can ask for a checklist and history of repair of that given car from the Lexus dealer. We just bought our CPO vehicle (RX 350 2012) and so far had good and bad experience with it but our Lexus dealer made it right. Read "bouncy ride" on this forum to give a feedback on my experience. The manager told me again yesterday that he's got our backs for 3 years or 100K mies or whatever comes first.

Good luck! Nowie

[LEX-SV]

Nowie - Did you get a copy of your CPO checklist? What comments were on it in chassis-shock/strut section?

[lenore]

Funny when I was about to buy certified they claimed they fix all imperfections....Body, paint, headlights etc. That was their story. I went to CarMax and got same vehicle, same shape, $6000 less...Lexus was upset when I told them I was on the way to look at CarMax car, but they still wouldn't deal....I am not pushing CarMax, but in my case it was a huge win......Especially when I pointed out to Lexus the fogged headlamp and all they would do is try to find a good used one and replace it...so much for CPO...$6000 more in my pocket and CarMax offered a great warranty for lots cheaper.

[pj8708]

I think you will all agree that over the last ten years, nearly all manufacturers have turned to offering a certified program. Over the last several years, and particularly since 2008, all car dealers have experienced a significant lack of availability of used cars for their demands. I think the CPO from Lexus has helped them bring in the CPO prospects because they can get the customers trade ( the dealer here is pretty selective) and move a buyer into a late year Lexus that the buyer thought they could never afford.

In one of my buying events at my local dealer, I negotiated back and forth about the $1,000 CPO offer. One of my thoughts at the time was even if I don't buy the CPO package, I would still get the benefit of what they had already done to the car. My dealer includes repair of all dings and dents, and scratches.

For a new buyer, Lexus keeps a complete history on all work done on a Lexus. It is available for the asking.

Paul