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pemarsh

Gasoline?

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I have a '96 LX-450 and I usually go with 93 unless it is not available, then I'll go with '92 or '91. Guess using the high octane is just a habit for me.

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Using fuel with an octane rating higher than what the manual recommends is really just a waste of money. There really isn't any performance or mileage gain with higher octane fuel.

Then again, it's your cash...if you want to pay for higher grade stuff...

Me, I'd rather save it for the mods.

...

Doug

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It's important to use the gas recommended for the car. I use the 87. I've heard that using high octane in an engine designed for 87 can actually do damage over the long run. If you are getting knocks and pings when using 87, then you need a tune up, not higher octane gas.

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I'll bet I have wasted lots of $$ over the years due to this habit. :blink:

Maybe when gas prices get much higher I'll finally decide to 'quit.'

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I'll bet I have wasted lots of $$ over the years due to this habit.

No you havn't wasted $$. Try 87 octane for several days or maybe a few weeks. At some point you may wonder "boy my engine is acting like it needs a tune up or some fuel injector cleaner." When you get to that point, have someone remind you that you switched to 87 octane several days or weeks ago.

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I'm not looking to start any battles or arguments, but...unless it's recommended by the manufacturer, there is absolutely no reason to use higher octane fuel. It doesn't give you more power, it doesn't burn cleaner...it only controls detonation. I've been running 87 octane in my 450 for over 3 years now (and for several years in the 94 Land Cruiser I previously owned (with the same engine as the 450). Never had any problems.

Well, like I said earlier, to each their own -- after all it's your coin. One thing to note, however -- if you switch back and forth between different octane levels, you will affect how the engine runs. It takes a while for the ECU to adjust to the different octane. Once the adjustment's made, it's no longer a problem.

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The 2004 LX owners manual says: "For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

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Well Dougjohn, I think you've convinced me. I don't have a spanky new '04, so next tank I think I'm going to switch to regular... see how she runs... and ride out the adjustment.

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The 2004 LX owners manual says:  "For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

Monarch -- excellent point. All I said was that a person should follow what the manual says.

On my '97 LX450's, 91 octane (or higher) is not recommended nor required. And until or unless I add the supercharger, I'll continue to run 87 octane; the supercharger requires 91 octane or higher.

Cheers,

Doug

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Well Dougjohn, I think you've convinced me. I don't have a spanky new '04, so next tank I think I'm going to switch to regular... see how she runs... and ride out the adjustment.

Nelson,

I hope it works out for you. In my area it's about a $4 difference per fill-up. With all the stuff on my rig, I can stand to save as much as I can -- I'm down to around 11mpg city/12.5 mpg highway...the bumpers, sliders, etc are pretty heavy! :(

:cheers:

Doug

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dougjohn , 87 is the MINIMUM recommended octane to use in a 6 cylinder LX450, but is not necessarily the best octane to use for the smoothest and most responsive engine performance.

Millions of Toyota owners use 89, 91 or 92 octane gaoline in engines designed to run acceptably well on 87 octane. Why do they do this? Because they notice the engine starts quicker and runs more smoothly overall with sharper, more instantaneous throttle response. Little annoying hesistations in some situations vanish. All traces of engine pinging, both audible and inaudible dissappear. And any tendency of the engine knock control sensor to !Removed! ignition timing (which hurts power) to compensate for pinging is eliminated as well. In some cases, premium grades have more sophisticated detergent packages as well and cleaner fuel injectors and intake valves contribute to better fuel economy. Finally, petroleum chemists tell us the smooth, less violent burning characteristics of high octane gas promotes longer engine life.

Some owners, like myself, think the drivability benefits of premium outweigh the cost.

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Monarch,

If you're convinced that higher octane fuel is better for your vehicles, then by all means, use it. I choose to use the best fuel that gets the job done. Using 87 octane will do absolutely no damage what-so-ever. That said, using 91 octane will also do no damage to the engine...it'll make your wallet lighter, but it will not damage the engine.

Just for kicks, I reviewed the owner's manual for the 1997 LX 450. On page 212, it states:"Octane Number - Select Research Octane Number 91 (Octane Rating 87) or higher. Use of unleaded fuel with an octane number or rating lower than stated above will cause persistent heavy knocking." This seems to corelate to your statement that 87 is the minimum octane recommended. No where in the manual, however, does it state that there will be added performance with use of a higher rated (octane) fuel. The only other statement related to fuel is on the inside of the back cover which states, "Fuel selection: UNLEADED gasoline, Research Octane Number 91 (Octane Rating 87) or higher."

Millions of people do lots of things -- sometimes right, sometimes wrong -- the fact that millions of poeple do something is really meaningless. I am curious about some of the statements made -- do you have any presentable evidence, any research, or findings to back-up the statements made that the use of higher grades of fuel eliminate "all traces of audible and inaudible pinging". On a related note, please define "inaudible pinging" -- this seems to be an oxymoron; isn't pinging an audible symptom?

To date, in converstions with mechanics and service consultants, I've been told that unless it's recommended, using higher rated (i.e. premium fuels) is simply a waste of money. I don't own a LS 400, so I don't know what's required for the 4 litre engine. The 4.5 litre Toyota inline 6 calls for "regular unleaded" -- that's what I use.

For what it's worth, I have several friends with an excess of 200k miles on the 4.5l inline 6, who have had absolutely no fuel-related problems (carbon build-up, fuel injector, etc.).

Not that I object to a nice debate, but why do you care about the use of premium grade fuel?

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> why do you care about the use of premium grade fuel?

Well at one point you said there was no benefit to using premium in an engine that is designed to have a minimum octane requirement of 87 like the 1FZ-FE inline 6. I just wanted to point out that some owners may notice benefits. Not necessarily better power or gas mileage benefits, but improved starting, overall drivability, engine responsiveness and engine smoothness. I even use premium gas in my lawnmower because it will start with one pull instead of 2-3 attempts like it would using 87 octane.

If you do a Google search for "inaudible pinging" or "inaudible denotation" you'll learn more about it. The 1FZ-FE has a knock sensor and on some engines knock sensors are sensitive enough to !Removed! the ignition timing (hurting engine performance and gas mileage) when they detect the earliest stage of pinging (which is inaudible to the human ear). However, I do not know specifically whether or not the 1FZ-FE's knock sensor is sensitive enough to detect inaudible pinging and !Removed! the ignition timing before it becomes bad enough to be audible.

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Fair enough.

I'll search the 'net for "inaudible pinging" -- honestly, this is the first I've heard of it.

No premium gas in my mower though...

no gas at all -- I have a rechargeable (cordless electric) Toro. I got tired of pulling the darned cord -- must've been the 87 octane :)

Have a good one Monarch.

:cheers:

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