2013 Es Dash Stitching... Is It Real?

[cduluk]

Hi guys,

I saw a new 2013 ES350 in person today at the dealer. Overall, i LOVE it. I love the exterior, but something about the interior caught me by surprise.

Upon close examination of the dash, i noticed that the stitching (shown below) doesn't look to be "real"! By "real" i mean stitching which ensures the integrity of the bonding of vinyl/leather to the dash itself. It looked and felt like the upper dash was in fact a solid piece of rubber with this fake stitching in it! The stitch makes it look like the dash is covered in vinyl or leather, but it's not. It's just a solid piece of rubber. The ES i saw was the standard base model, not the hybrid.

Can anyone verify/explain this? Did Lexus really try to fool people into believing the dash is covered in leather or vinyl?

[LexBob2]

I thought I read the dash was hand stitched. Maybe someone else can chime and and confirm.

[pj8708]

For some reason I never would have thought to ask that question. When I go out this afternoon I will take a look. However, My guess is that it is NOT leather but some other material that the goverment safety standards require to absorb the terrific G-forces upon a collison and protects the occupant and allows the Air Bag to deploy through it.

tAlso, as far as I know, the 2013 is the first edition to use a Leather like product called New Luxe instead of leather. I know this because I had to order my 2013 ES350 from the factory in Japan to get the actual leather package.

Paul

[SW03ES]

The dash is actually stitched, they are all stitched by hand. Its not leather, its the nu-luxe material. My GS has the same stitching...

[cduluk]

The dash is actually stitched, they are all stitched by hand. Its not leather, its the nu-luxe material. My GS has the same stitching...

SW, i don't think the GS utilizes this "fake" stitching that i saw in the ES. I have no doubt that the stitch on the ES dash is/could be done by hand, my only question is WHY the stitch is there, since the ES dash isn't covered with any vinyl/leather material at all; it's just a solid chunk of rubber which shouldn't require any stitching (other than for dubious aesthetic purposes). It's definitely a solid rubber, not coated with any vinyl/leather material at all.

However on the dash of the new GS, you can easily see that it's in fact covered with some type of vinyl/leather veneer, and the stitching we see there is used to hold the vinyl/leather to the dash itself. It has not only aesthetic qualities, but serves a function. Here's the '13 GS dash:

However if you look at the ES dash (pictured in post 1) you can see that the dash isn't covered with any type of vinyl/leather veneer at all, and therefore shouldn't have any stitching (other for aesthetic reasons). At first glance, the stitch in the ES dash makes one think the dash is covered in a vinyl/leather like in the new GS, when in fact it's just the same cheap rubber material used in previous models. Could Lexus have thought the stitch would make people think that the dash is covered in a higher quality vinyl/leather veneer like in the new GS? Am i the only one that thinks that's a little "cheap"?

Having sat in both the '13 GS and '13 ES, (in my opinion) the quality of materials in the new ES seems to pale in comparison to that of the new GS. This "stitch" in the solid rubber dash of the ES bothers me for some reason.

[SW03ES]

The ES absolutely has the same NuLuxe synthetic leather on the upper dash as my GS does. I drove 6 or 7 of them at length when I almost bought one before I got the GS...its not as padded as the GS, but its there.

[pj8708]

Hi cduluk,

I'm a little confused about why this is such a major issue from your perspective. Do you feel that Lexus has been misleading or misrepresenting the materials used in their interiors? As I said in my earlier post, I'm more concerned that the material used for the dash works when the air bag is supposed to deploy.

The reason for using the top stiching is to show that this leather has been made by hand. Going back to the industrial revolution, the practice of having all leather needs made by hand or partly by machine, a Cobler might use a the top stich or visible stich as on the ES. Latter, when all leather goods were made by machine, having a pair of leather shoes using the visible stich pattern easily showed the other person that you could afford hand - made shoes.

That is the same affect I believe Lexus is going for. The top stich is also considered to be more suited for spots themes. I suppose they want the GS and ES to look a little more updated.

You probably won't see this stich pattern used on "Fine Leathers", Gucci, Feragamo, etc.

Paul

[cduluk]

The ES absolutely has the same NuLuxe synthetic leather on the upper dash as my GS does. I drove 6 or 7 of them at length when I almost bought one before I got the GS...its not as padded as the GS, but its there.

The ES i was in must be different than those you drove, because there was absolutely no veneer on the dash of the '13 i was in. I manipulated the upper dash in my hands and it was completely solid rubber; no vinyl/leather covering.

Hi cduluk,

I'm a little confused about why this is such a major issue from your perspective. Do you feel that Lexus has been misleading or misrepresenting the materials used in their interiors? As I said in my earlier post, I'm more concerned that the material used for the dash works when the air bag is supposed to deploy.

The reason for using the top stiching is to show that this leather has been made by hand. Going back to the industrial revolution, the practice of having all leather needs made by hand or partly by machine, a Cobler might use a the top stich or visible stich as on the ES. Latter, when all leather goods were made by machine, having a pair of leather shoes using the visible stich pattern easily showed the other person that you could afford hand - made shoes.

That is the same affect I believe Lexus is going for. The top stich is also considered to be more suited for spots themes. I suppose they want the GS and ES to look a little more updated.

You probably won't see this stich pattern used on "Fine Leathers", Gucci, Feragamo, etc.

Paul

That's exactly it Paul; Lexus is misrepresenting the materials used in the '13 ES. It's even fooled SW! The upper dash of the '13 ES is solid rubber; not covered in a vinyl/leather as the stitch would lead us to believe.

Having a vinyl, leather or synthetic leather veneer on the dash shouldn't affect airbag deployment; Lexus has used these materials as veneers on the upper dash of many of its models, and it functions well. Even my 400h uses a vinyl veneer on the upper dash.

If the stitch is intended to show that the dash is hand made, that's even more sad... It's molded in a machine!

[pj8708]

I disagree cduluk. Your statment saying that SW has "even been fooled" is inapropriate for our forum, when we are supposed to be exchanging our perspectives on topics not people or their personaities.

I do not know if the dash material is leather in any of the many forms and types, or if the dash material is a synthetic. I do know I like it's appearance and feel, and I also like the extra touch of the stiching .

I would be curious to know if any of the other luxury badges use any look-a-like leather substitute products in their cars. Does BMW or Mercedes or Range Rover (David), Cadiliac, Audi, Infinity, and so on use any leather look-a-like products in their interiors. I don't know. But before we take Lexus to task any further, maybe someone else could chime in regarding other luxury makes.

[LexBob2]

When the new gen ES came out I read a couple of articles that talked about workers receiving training for the hand stitching of tne dash material, whatever it happens to be. At the time I thought the information was embellished a bit, but the point was the hand stitching. If it's important, a search would confirm the info.

[cduluk]

I disagree cduluk. Your statment saying that SW has "even been fooled" is inapropriate for our forum, when we are supposed to be exchanging our perspectives on topics not people or their personaities.

I do not know if the dash material is leather in any of the many forms and types, or if the dash material is a synthetic. I do know I like it's appearance and feel, and I also like the extra touch of the stiching .

I would be curious to know if any of the other luxury badges use any look-a-like leather substitute products in their cars. Does BMW or Mercedes or Range Rover (David), Cadiliac, Audi, Infinity, and so on use any leather look-a-like products in their interiors. I don't know. But before we take Lexus to task any further, maybe someone else could chime in regarding other luxury makes.

Paul, i never meant that in a disrespectful way at all- my apologies! I will admit it had me fooled at first glance, also. After more research, i've learned that the dash is in fact solid (not covered in a free-floating leather/vinyl that would require stitching). Lexus actually calls it a "stitched slush mold."

From cars.com regarding the dash on the '13 ES:

"The cabin trades last year’s chrome inlays for silver plastic, and the

faux-leather dashboard trim is little more than a stitched veneer, which

Lexus calls a stitched slush mold. Other entry-luxury cars, including

Lexus’ own CT 200h, have more-convincing dashboard stitching, and

Chrysler’s sedan can come wrapped in genuine leather. Similar stitching

to the ES adds a classy vibe to the plebeian Camry, but in the pricier

Lexus, it rings cheap.”

I'm not aware of any other luxury makers that use real leather anymore... The leather used in early Lexus models was the softest i've ever touched! I wish they'd bring it back.

[LEXIRX330]

My Range Rover has the nicest leather of any car I have owned. The dash is leather too. BMW and Mercedes at least the ones I had also had the fake leather unless you upgraded. I did in the BMW and the leather was still OK at best. The leather in the Lexus vehicles that I have owned I would say is great as well. Here is a pic of the leather in the old RR to show the dash. The leather is the same in the 13 but got black this time.

Oh yea Paul, I didn't take CD's comment that way either. No biggie but I didn't read it like that.

Hell CD what do you care what the dash is made of? You will take it apart and put your own touch on it anyway! Maybe you can do a whole dash out of that wood... lol

[cduluk]

My Range Rover has the nicest leather of any car I have owned. The dash is leather too. BMW and Mercedes at least the ones I had also had the fake leather unless you upgraded. I did in the BMW and the leather was still OK at best. The leather in the Lexus vehicles that I have owned I would say is great as well. Here is a pic of the leather in the old RR to show the dash. The leather is the same in the 13 but got black this time.

Oh yea Paul, I didn't take CD's comment that way either. No biggie but I didn't read it like that.

Hell CD what do you care what the dash is made of? You will take it apart and put your own touch on it anyway! Maybe you can do a whole dash out of that wood... lol

Woah that car looks beautiful!! Congrats BTW! I haven't seen that model in person, but from the pictures it's easy to see the quality. Looking at the dash stitching, we get right away that it's covered in a nice leather. I love the look, i just don't get why Lexus couldn't have done it right in the ES! I didn't mean to turn it into such a big deal, i was just curious if anyone else noticed Lexus' deception in the ES. I understand the "look" Lexus was trying to achieve (and i like it), it just would have been nice if they put leather (even a padded vinyl or the synthetic stuff) on the dash to add to the sincerity.

[pj8708]

Very nice David. The color looks rich and contemporary.

You know guys, as I go back over the threads here, it made me think back over the cars I've owned that had leather, and those with faux leather. And there is no question that the touch and comfort of quality leather is the thing you would want and expect in a luxury car. Then again, I imagine most of us have had that first encounter with the blue dye from blue jeans transferring off onto the leather seats as you slide in and out Also, there are always quite a few post asking how to clean the perferated leather seats without fouling or tearing the holes that allow for the cool air flow function.

I have mentioned before when I got my 2013 ES that I had to special order it from the factory to get the leather interior. I forget how much more that was. So yes, I do like the feel and look of the Lexus leather.I t does require some TLC now and then but I take it to the detail shop if it needs good professional care.

In talking about the special order for the leather, I never thought about if that would make a difference in the dash covering. I highly doubt it.

Now lets move on to a new topic...........Do you have to use premium gas in a new ES350? lol

Paul

[LEXIRX330]

Very nice David. The color looks rich and contemporary.

Now lets move on to a new topic...........Do you have to use premium gas in a new ES350? lol

Paul

Actually my new one is black. Just didn't have a good pic of the dash. I like the black more the "tan" as they call it looked great but I have had a lot of people say the same thing I think that the black looks classy. Here is the only pic I've taken so far of the interior of the new one.

AND- Really Paul...GAS? :) Think you can run them on water now so you don't need gas but you need to use bottled water!

[cduluk]

Very nice David. The color looks rich and contemporary.

Now lets move on to a new topic...........Do you have to use premium gas in a new ES350? lol

Paul

Actually my new one is black. Just didn't have a good pic of the dash. I like the black more the "tan" as they call it looked great but I have had a lot of people say the same thing I think that the black looks classy. Here is the only pic I've taken so far of the interior of the new one.

AND- Really Paul...GAS? :) Think you can run them on water now so you don't need gas but you need to use bottled water!

Ahh! I LOVE it in black!!!!

[LEXIRX330]

Thanks CD. I love it too. Can't keep my eyes off of it. And I tell you 510HP...she will move too!

[cduluk]

Thanks CD. I love it too. Can't keep my eyes off of it. And I tell you 510HP...she will move too!

Damn, that's a LOT of power!! What's the 0-60 time on that thing??

[LEXIRX330]

Says 5.6 seconds. But the real power is 60 and up man I kid you not I am going to get a ticket. When overtaking a car it is so easy to hit 80 with out even trying. In my 12 I took it on a long straight back road, nothing around for a few miles and floored it and I hit 100 so quick it was scary. So I use my cruise A Lot! The paddle shifters are a load of fun too!

[cduluk]

Says 5.6 seconds. But the real power is 60 and up man I kid you not I am going to get a ticket. When overtaking a car it is so easy to hit 80 with out even trying. In my 12 I took it on a long straight back road, nothing around for a few miles and floored it and I hit 100 so quick it was scary. So I use my cruise A Lot! The paddle shifters are a load of fun too!

WOAH!! I'd wrap myself around a tree so quickly if i had that car! That's some SERIOUS acceleration!!

[KathleenL]

Paul said, "I have mentioned before when I got my 2013 ES that I had to special order it from the factory to get the leather interior. I forget how much more that was."

Gosh, I've got the leather interior on my 2013 ES (and yes, it cost more), but I didn't have to special order the car. I guess I got lucky. The dealer was trying to talk me into taking a silver, white, or grey car, but I wanted the Fire Agate Pearl with the "parchment" leather interior. He checked their incoming stock and found out that what I wanted was due to arrive at the port in Los Angeles a day or so later, so he put my name on it, and that's what I got.

I've not examined the dash closely enough to know whether or not the stitching or the material is "real," but it sure looks like it to me. I'll try to remember to take a closer look tomorrow when I get into it again.

[weekse]

To answer the original question of this post about the Dash Stitching on the ES.

Yes, it is absolutely real.

Here is an article posted on the Lexus Global Site about it:

http://www.lexus-int.com/models/ES/craftmanship.html