Get Out And Vote

[lenore]

hey i am with my grandbabies no time to beat up the loser. enjoy your burger.

[pj8708]

As far as Iowa at this point in time, It looks like Obama by not a breeze, but not buy a white knuckle flight either. Romney's problem out here is that he has no way of making a beleivable connection with the agri-business folks. He rings true with the very conservative and evangelicals, but cant speak to export markets for farm, plant genectics, what is a farm bill (?) that hasen't been acted on all year because of Republican desire to make Obama look bad.

Now, with the storm, Romney has chosen to be filmed handing out cans of tomato soup instead of calling Fema or the White House and asking what can my organization and my gazillion worth of personal money, do to help.

[SW03ES]

HAHA Rob!

In all seriousness, for Romney to win the electoral college would take a fundemental collapse in polling. Polling in all of these swing states would basically have to be wrong. Obama has been consistently ahead in Ohio, and without Ohio I don't see how Romney can win, no Republican has ever won the White House without Ohio. He may be pretending they can win in PA...but to me that shows how concerned they are about Ohio. Polls in VA are routinely returning Obama positives. CO, same, IA same, NV same, NH same. Of the battleground states, the only ones showing Romney up are NC, and maybe FL...but its close.

I just don't see it happening for Romney.

Out of curiosity, those of you that think Romney is going to win...what's the rationale? How do you think he's going to get there?

[lenore]

i think the poles are favorable depending on which media bias you watch. i wish there were some non biased poles that asked non biased questions.sorry this touchpad drives me crazy trying to spell etc.

[SW03ES]

The question they ask is who are you voting for, Obama or Romney. Nothing biased there.

The issue for Romney is, in order for him to win basically every poll has to be wrong.

[LEXIRX330]

Out of curiosity, those of you that think Romney is going to win...what's the rationale? How do you think he's going to get there?

I just have to believe that there are enough people that are fed up in the direction that the country is heading. I'm seeing the polls show that it is going to be close and with the controversy in Libya I can't see how he can win. I know you will disagree but this was a cover up and the way it has been handled is a absolute disgrace.

[lenore]

Agreed about the coverup, just shows how poorly government is ran. however that has been going on for a long time....remember the Pueblo? Koreans should have never had that ship, unfortunately the bureaucratics couldnt make a command decision to send planes from japan, and they captured it. Sometimes I wish the military could make the snap decisions that would protect our people. As for the stats, All I have seen is do you favor how the economy is going, or how do you rate how likeable they are. As for un-decided, well there are none, people know whom they are going with, especially this late in the game. Maybe folks are sick of polls and arent giving truthful answers to mess with people. I know I AM SICK OF THEM.

AS for my gut feel I am nervous, I think America in the high population areas just dont care about the future of this country, just their entitlements.

[SW03ES]

I'm not talking about who SHOULD win, I'm talking about who is likely to win. I just don't see how Romney is going to get to 270 electoral votes, basically every poll would have to be fundamentally flawed. 12 battleground polls came out last week, Obama was ahead in 9, tied in 2, Romney was only leading in one...NC. The only battleground state where Romney has any kind of a lead is NC, FL is really close. He can't win if he just wins FL and NC.

As for Libya, I don't think its really an issue. In having discussions with people over the last few weeks...I haven't heard the word "Libya" until right now. While I agree it was handled very poorly, its not a big enough issue for me to totally betray every political stance I hold and vote for Romney. I can't just change positions at will like he can ;) Plus, I think the only Presdient we've had more willing to do whatever it takes to win the Presidency than Romney was Richard Nixon. If the Libya deal had happened under a Romney re-election campaign...boy you want to talk about coverups?

Maybe folks are sick of polls and aren't giving truthful answers to mess with people. I know I AM SICK OF THEM.

History has shown us these polls are pretty accurate. I think believing that theres a concerted effort out there to give untruthful responses to polls conducted by multiple agencies in multiple states' date=' when that has never happened before leading up to a Presidential election is a pretty big stretch.[/font']

I think America in the high population areas just dont care about the future of this country, just their entitlements.

You need to learn some respect for people who disagree with you.

In case you haven't noticed, there are people here who hold different viewpoints than yours, including me. I absolutely will not tolerate you insinuating that we are stupid, that we don't care about this country, or that we care about "entitlements" more than we care about the future of this country just because we disagree with you any longer. What a f&cking stupid thing to say, I pay more in taxes than the average family in this country earns, to insinuate that I am voting for Obama because I wan't "entitlements" is absurd. I will put my worth and my contributions to this country up against yours any day champ. Any day.

Disagree with me all you want, but I will not tolerate you insinuating that I, and those who agree with me politically, are people who care more about ourselves and our entitlements than we do about the future of this country. That is total bullish!t. At some point we have to grow up in this country and start trying to find strength in common ground again. Look at Chris Christie and President Obama. I'll tell you what, I never thought much of Christie until this hurricane situation but my opinion has changed a lot.

Somehow the rest of us can have this conversation, but as soon as you get involved it goes to !Removed!. Go play with your grandbabies.

[lenore]

sometimes i dont get you steve, you just went off the handle for thinking i was saying people were stupid which I in no way said. I just feel that the populated areas of the country tend to have more people on the entitlements than folks in the rural and suburbia areas. I hope you didnt have a bad day to trigger such response. It was not an attack but a perception that I see in San Francisco, L A, Chicago, New York, etc. These tend to be areas where you have more social programs than in less populated areas. What in heavens name in this thread made you feel that I was attacking? Hey i want both sides of the isle to care more about America and less about their political aspirations. I have always said that problem solving and making solutions is what should be done...This Administrtion has unsuccessfully shown any real reaching out to the other side to solve this nations problems...As for people not caring in these populated areas, heck have you seen the interviews with young people that didnt even know whom was running for the presidential, vice president spots, yet were waving banners for party thugs...That is terrible when you basically have mice following the pied piper. I resent you saying I am not caring about this country, I have served my time in Vietnam, and am from a retired Air Force veteran that served in the Berlin Airlift, Korean War, Vietnam War, and Cold war during the Cuban missle crisis, with his planes flying in Strategic Air Command and finishing as a Minute Man Missile officer. I personally served working For NSA and various Navel intelligence sites throughout the world. I know what goes on in the government as well as on the outside. I fully understand the direction this country is being drawn toward, and do not agree. I want our constitution protected, and do not believe it is a living document. This country is one of the greatest in mans history, and I want to see it continue to be so, but find that the policies of recent do not reflect the greatness of its people. And the dumbing down of our poplulation to meet the needs of folks that want to experiment with social engineering is not what I believe will make a challenging and prosperous society for my children and grandchildren. I understand there are different views from mine, but I am not alone in my beliefs as the polls show that by narrow margins the country is truely split in the direction we are taking, however just because I dissagree with you does not mean I am attacking you, but rather that we dont agree on that direction. That is what this forum is for, and those that agree or dissagree with you or me give their responses just as you and i do, to better understand what makes the other side tick. You are not in my skin as I not in yours, and we both could very well never understand the others viewpoint. But one thing is that i do read your responses and try to understand where you are coming from without making attacks and threats of banning me from this forum..It would be a shame that just because I dont agree with you I would be banned, when I do a lot in helping folks on these forums in fixing their cars as well. Heck one thing we can agree on is we want to fix this country. your way or mine, it has to be a consensus of ideas to fix our problems...This is the second time you have gone off on me...I truely dont get it, when I made no personal attacks. I guess some folks just have a breaking point in forum meant to entertain as well as educate. Oh by the way because my views are different doesnt mean the thread has gone to sh(t, it means we dont agree...nothing more, nothing less. Lighten up, enjoy your evening...

[lenore]

well here are latest polls

Email Print Share

RealClearPolitics Poll Averages

General Election: Romney vs. Obama

Poll Date Sample MoE Obama (D) Romney ® Spread RCP Average 10/22 - 11/3 -- -- 47.5 47.3 Obama +0.2

[SW03ES]

I think America in the high population areas just dont care about the future of this country, just their entitlements.

THIS statement is the problem. As I am someone who is voting Obama and lives in a high population area...am I supposed to assume your statement means everybody who lives where I do and votes as I do...just not me?

I am someone that is very well versed in the issues of the day and this election, and I have shown time and time again here that I'm actually more well versed than you are. Yet...I disagree with you. Its because we disagree, not because I'm an idiot.

Keep your statements about the issues...not personally about the people doing the voting. I could say I'm worried because of all the uneducated, racist, women hating, homophipic and xenophobic hicks in the low population areas who will vote for Romney...and that would be as ridiculous a statement as the one you made quoted above.

General Election: Romney vs. Obama

Poll Date Sample MoE Obama (D) Romney ® Spread RCP Average 10/22 - 11/3 -- -- 47.5 47.3 Obama +0.2

Remember that a presidential election is not a popular election. You need to look at the polls in the individual battleground states, thats what matters.

Thats why intrade has Obama as a 65.2% chance of winning:

http://www.intrade.c.../?eventId=84326

I also might suggest you read Nate Silver's 538 Blog:

http://fivethirtyeig...ogs.nytimes.com

He's a statistician that made a name for himself predicting outcomes for Baseball. He has Obama at 85.1% chance of winning. If you read his blog entries you'll read a lot of his rationale as to why this race is not as close as it seems, and why for Romney to win it would have to mean all the local polling is fundamentally biased against him.

In 2008 he predicted the wins and margins very accurately in 49 out of 50 states, and was also very accurate during the 2010 midterms. The guy's obviously got liberal leanings, but if you just look at the raw data you see where the issue for Romney lies.

[lenore]

well it going to be close probably like 2000 election. lets hope no hanging chads.so let me seeif i understand , any remark on a general group in populated areas is a personal attack. man that is nit picking. just as i said america is the greatest country even though you have good and bad in the make up i still feel that generally we are the best. lets agree that we can disagree.hey it will all be over soon and may the best man win. i do believe in our system.

[SW03ES]

well it going to be close probably like 2000 election. lets hope no hanging chads.so let me seeif i understand , any remark on a general group in populated areas is a personal attack.

Don't make personal comments about individuals or groups of people, its really not that hard and not that complicated. Everyone else who shares your political ideology seems to be able to do it fine.

Talk about the issues, not about people.

[nc211]

I read an interesting statistic this morning. For the past 18 presidential elections, if the Washington Redskins won the game prior to the election, the existing ruling party won the election. If they lost, the ruling party changed hands. Redskins lost yesterday... This is true fact, with only one hiccup occuring in 2004, that reaches back 72 years. I'm just sayin.....

We very well could be looking at another popular vote cast one way, and electoral vote cast the other. It wouldn't surprise me one bit, given the performance we've seen out of the house and senate over the past few years (or lack thereof).

I think there is a quiet and sizable portion of the population who have reserved their comments and opinions during this entire process, have dodged the polling calls and surveys, that are going to vote for Romney tomorrow. I think they're being very quiet and flying under the radar because they simply don't want to have the argument, don't want to hear the debate and the politics of thier own personal decision, so they're just agreeing with whatever is being said in their social circles, knowing full well they've already made up their minds and aren't going to reveal it to anyone, except to the ballot tomorrow. Why do I think this? Because for the first time in our history, race can actually be a factor and spark an ugly response. I must tip my hat however to all who have been involved in this year's election cycle for not going down this path. Some have tried, but the media didn't splash it on the front pages, and 99.9% of the coversations between all of us have had nothing to do with it. Yet, we all know it does exist. Not saying that it exists in a bad way, or anyway for that matter, but it exists just enough to put some folks off from speaking about or hinting to reveal who they're going to vote for. I think those voters, are going Romney, and aren't being seen in these surveys and predictions.

But Steve is 110% right, and it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. It's all about the electora, and these key races are so tight, that the electoral college is in no real jeapordy either way....

[SW03ES]

I read an interesting statistic this morning. For the past 18 presidential elections, if the Washington Redskins won the game prior to the election, the existing ruling party won the election. If they lost, the ruling party changed hands. Redskins lost yesterday... This is true fact, with only one hiccup occuring in 2004, that reaches back 72 years. I'm just sayin.....

2004 broke the streak ;)

I think there is a quiet and sizable portion of the population who have reserved their comments and opinions during this entire process, have dodged the polling calls and surveys, that are going to vote for Romney tomorrow. I think they're being very quiet and flying under the radar because they simply don't want to have the argument, don't want to hear the debate and the politics of thier own personal decision, so they're just agreeing with whatever is being said in their social circles, knowing full well they've already made up their minds and aren't going to reveal it to anyone, except to the ballot tomorrow

Then that would be a systematic failure of the polling data spread out amongst dozens of entities that do polling, and it would represent the most systematic failure of polls in history. I think thats basically Romney's only saving grace.

I actually see it the other way. Of all of my friends and colleagues, the most vocal are the Romney supporters. As an Obama supporter, if anything I feel pressure to reserve my comments and opinions to keep the peace with my friends. I certainly feel its "more popular" to be a Romney supporter in my circles. I can't tell you how many good friends of mine I've had to hide from my newsfeed on Facebook so I can resist responding to their posts.

So I might see it the opposite, that the race might not be as close as it seems in Obama's favor on election day. Speaking out about your viewpoints and responding to a poll are two different things. Someone passionate enough to vote is going to respond to a poll...

Something to think about, I was watching the news this morning while I was getting ready for work, the polls are almost identical to what they were on this day in 2004, with Obama in Bush's position. Up by a point or two in national polls, 49% approval, 49% disapproval, and Kerry's numbers were also similar to Romney's.

On election night, it came away for Bush more quickly that expected because back then it was unpopular to be a Bush supporter, even though more people were than let on. I think this race has a lot of similarities to 2004, but the polling data told the real story, while the feel out there was certainly more pro-Kerry, as I feel it is today pro-Romney.

[LEXIRX330]

I actually see it the other way. Of all of my friends and colleagues, the most vocal are the Romney supporters. As an Obama supporter, if anything I feel pressure to reserve my comments and opinions to keep the peace with my friends. I certainly feel its "more popular" to be a Romney supporter in my circles. I can't tell you how many good friends of mine I've had to hide from my newsfeed on Facebook so I can resist responding to their posts.

That is because you have some good friends! lol

[SW03ES]

LOL, its incredible they put up with me huh?

[nc211]

Ut Oh - heard tonight on the radio that the NFL has said a ref blew a call yesterday that gave the Panthers the win over the Redskins... Damn Redskins! I might be on the hook for a taco and a glass of water to SW this week! Drive thru, of course, in his car!!

[SW03ES]

Well, the ref blew the call I agree...but that didn't cost the Redskins the game lol

That game was a bloodbath

But yes, you may owe me a slab of prime rib from the a prime Rib lol

[pj8708]

I am so sick and tired of the so called "Self made Men" complaining about what they percieve as the low class, won't work, lazy, food stamp scaming, welfare check bleeding questionable citizens. In short the 47% that Romney and Lenore identify as existing on this planet only to grab entitlements.

Big fat clue Romney supporters. EVERYONE in this country, rich or poor, descended from the Mayflower or Africa enjoys and receives the benifits of entitelments. Through the tax code, previously mentioned support such as Medicaid. Future deffered tax payments. Special regulations, dispensations, ear marks, quietly inserted language in a Senate bill, and a personal lobyest. We also receive more payout from Medicare than we ever paid in if we are involved in a serious illness. We want less and less taxes, but more highways with smoother payment with the ability to drive faster. We love the entitilment of being able to stop anyone on the street who's skin is browner than mine and demand they prove their a legal citizen of the United States. It's kind of like the Master Golf Classic where first they had to change the rules to let a African American play. Then they had to change the rules again to let a WOMEN play in the tournement. Wow. Those golfers really had to earn those entitilments.

If anyone should be an expert on entitlements Lenore, it's has to be Romney. Born wealthy, which is a matter of goog fortune. But being choosen by the wealthy for the campaign and now owned by the aristocrisy to do their bidding should he win.

Everyone gets their entitlement.

[lenore]

See steve, a personal attack, but typical with liberals, the cheek is turned the other way in my defense....That is why I dont understand you two guys...Cannot for the life of me figure out why It is oK to attack me, but it is not ok to Attack your ideas....I personally believe Paul And you owe me an apology. Hey tomorrow is the big day...Lets hope whomever wins brings this country back together and starts solving our terrible problems that face our future generations.

[nc211]

We got Shoneys here in DC?!? :-)

I wasn't able to see the game, and didn't check the score either, was too busy cleaning up the environmental biohazard that was parked in the driveway, otherwise known as the family buggy. Came to the conclusion that it was a good concept by Volvo, that was cheapened down to a plastic rattle box from Ford. That car is on its way out, even got the wife on board with the idea, but I digress...

Dang Paul, I bet that felt good to let loose! I already voted (Friday), so I'm kind've in the waiting room now having a drink while waiting for this all to finally end. I think I said about 8 months ago that this thing is going to be nuts, and it'll be the election of doom and gloom. I was pretty close, but it didn't get quite as bad as I thought it would. Hey, at least nobody got an intern indicted (I actually saw Lewinski a few weeks ago in a private hotel lobby). At the end of the day, one way or the other, taxes have to come up, and spending has to come down now. That's pretty much been a given from both sides. That'll be some lost entitlements, and some increased opportunity costs for the country. Neither Obama or Romney can avoid this anymore. My top issue with the democrats, which I've always maintained this view point over the years, is the massive amounts of red tape that always seems to appear when they show up at the economic party. I like it better when the private sector has more input to the oversight. True, that's more dangerous at times, but in the end, I think it allows for faster corrections in the market. But, just my opinion on that. At the end of the day, as harsh as it is to say and to admit to, there will always be poor folks in our country. There will always be the disadvantaged, victims of greed, and collateral damage of the innocent from the policies of the leadership, no matter who runs the show. We'll never get around that, as its a requirement of how we function as a country. For my own selfish reasons, I find it easier to insulate myself and to prosper more from the system when government isn't front and center. Not a popular thing to say not admit to in public, especially given the past few years, but it is what it is for me. This time around, I voted straight economy, nothing more, nothing less. Given my own personal beliefs that we're all familiar with, you can see why I went with Romney. I learned a lesson in my 20's, when I was chasing a dream to become some movie director, one that led me back to school to get a finance degree. Wanting it all, produces nothing whatsoever, if you can't pay for it. Knowing how to pay for it, lets you do whatever you want. Funny thing is, that movie studio I spent so many years working my way up within, wouldn't qualify for a loan from me today!

One more day.....and it's all done! Just think, since Obama became President, I had moved from NC to IL to DC, had another child, and tripled my base salary from his first day in office. Can't say I've had it too rough, but now want to protect this momentum a bit...

[SW03ES]

See steve, a personal attack, but typical with liberals, the cheek is turned the other way in my defense.

WTF are you talking about? I never attacked you, and neither did Paul.

At the end of the day, one way or the other, taxes have to come up, and spending has to come down now. That's pretty much been a given from both sides.

THIS is my biggest problem with Romney from an economic perspective. This is what you're missing...yes taxes will have to go up...but Mitt Romney will not raise taxes. He has demonstrated beyond any reasonable person's doubts that he will say and do anything to be President. Do you really think he will go against the tax pledge, against his party, and against his primary campaign promise and raise taxes simply because they need to be raised to balance the budget? Bear in mind...it would loose him a second term.

I personally don't see that happening, his first term is going to be all about getting re-elected, because that's all he cares about. The result? Exploded deficit.

It's a moot point though...because Im pretty sure you're going to be buying me that slab of meat ;)

[lenore]

Ok, it is going to be a long day, for all of you voters it does count, particularily in the battleground states. If you dont vote, dont complain.

[LEX-SV]

wtf, I missed the personal attacks (because none happened).

I tried to place a bet last week, no takers.

Regardless I hope all here have a safe voting day!