2016 Obama's America

[lenore]

Watched Obama's speech last night, must say it was pathetic. He gave no solutions, and basically sounded like his campaingn trail attacks...I think the independents are going to make their final decision on the debates... Obama looked tired and worn out. Man I think they blew it having Clinton speak, he was far more dynamic... I want a business man in power, not these string of lawyers that the democrats have pushed...Should be either a tite race or a landslide whichever way it goes...

[SW03ES]

First of all..his name is Reagan. ReagAn. Not Reagon.

Those Ivy league colleges filled his head full of elete, utopia ideas and I am afraid he is not what America needs. Boy I would take Bill Clinton anyday....But the choice is here and it wont be Obama.

You do realize that Clinton, also a lawyer...wen't to Yale right? You do realize that Mitt Romney went to Harvard...right?

He gave no solutions, and basically sounded like his campaingn trail attacks...I think the independents are going to make their final decision on the debates... Obama looked tired and worn out.

I think your hatred is showing through a little here. I thought he looked and sounded great, I thought there were a lot of policy points in the speech...whereas the Republicans haven't had any policy points to offer really.

[lenore]

Well here is the man of the year....He put the real meaning of no leadership in the media.

[SW03ES]

Huh?!?

[lenore]

First of all..his name is Reagan. ReagAn. Not Reagon.

Those Ivy league colleges filled his head full of elete, utopia ideas and I am afraid he is not what America needs. Boy I would take Bill Clinton anyday....But the choice is here and it wont be Obama.

You do realize that Clinton, also a lawyer...wen't to Yale right? You do realize that Mitt Romney went to Harvard...right?

He gave no solutions, and basically sounded like his campaingn trail attacks...I think the independents are going to make their final decision on the debates... Obama looked tired and worn out.

I think your hatred is showing through a little here. I thought he looked and sounded great, I thought there were a lot of policy points in the speech...whereas the Republicans haven't had any policy points to offer really.

that is where we differ. He offered nothing new, just the same talking points he always had...I think Having Clinton speak ruined any chance of Obama up scaling his speech. The Republicans offered a five point plan to solve the economic woes. What exactly did Obama offer that is any different from his last four years. Green jobs, that has failed miserably...It all is either bogus or went overseas....So many of his green ideas were just giveaways to the poor. I have example's of the tax payers paying for Solar systems installed on old homes completely funded by we the taxpayers. Solundra was another boondoggle. He has done nothing to decrease our dependence on foreign oil....He has buried the Coal industry in regulations. His administration has killed jobs...So much that hundreds of thousands have dropped out of even looking for jobs. Hince that is why his un-employment number went up...Simply less people working than since the World War II. If they are they are working under the table to try to make ends meet. Government has crippled this economy.

[SW03ES]

First of all...this is going to be my last response to this thread or any political threads on here. This has become a tit for tat between really me and you, and its circular, you're never going to convince me, I'm never going to convince you. Continuing to have this exchange is just annoying, and I'm over it.

The Republicans offered a five point plan to solve the economic woes.

Which we've demonstrated here won't work.

What exactly did Obama offer that is any different from his last four years.

What are the Republicans offering that is any different than what they've done every time they've taken control from the Democrats? Cut taxes, roll back regulations, explode the deficit like they ALWAYS have.

The question is whether or not the policies Obama's enacted are working, which I believe they are. Theres no question in my mind we are better off than we were in 2008. Nationwide the housing market is stronger, the economy is growing, it is creating jobs however slowly, we have high deficits which come with a recession, but we can see the path to those deficits being reduced. The GOP asks us to abandon that and go with a plan that quite frankly as I demonstrated and Clinton demonstrated just doesn't make mathematical sense. There is no doubt in my mind Romney's economic plan will explode our deficit, reduce Medicare coverage for seniors, it rolls back changes to Medicare that reduce its solvency from 2028 to 2016, raising taxes on the middle class while giving tax breaks to high wage earners...something that we have seen them do before and it just doesn't work.

He has done nothing to decrease our dependence on foreign oil....He has buried the Coal industry in regulations.

Actually, oil imports are down, he's passed legislation increasing fuel economy standards, etc. As someone who's grandfather was handicapped after a coal mine cavein, I come from a long line of people involved in the coal industry in WV. I personally don't have an issue with regulations as pertain to the coal industry, very dirty crooked industry that puts peoples lives far behind profit, and has a long history of doing so.

His administration has killed jobs...So much that hundreds of thousands have dropped out of even looking for jobs. Hince that is why his un-employment number went up...Simply less people working than since the World War II. If they are they are working under the table to try to make ends meet. Government has crippled this economy.

Source?

This is just the thing, "his administration" has not "killed jobs". We're recovering from an incredibly deep recession, what was quite frankly I think a depression, far worse than we knew at the time. Recovery has been slow, but we're still saddled with a lot of issues globally that are having an effect too. What legislation passed by Obama has "killed jobs" and specifically how has the Government "crippled this economy".

I simply see no compelling argument from the GOP that we should change tracks at this time, when coupled with their crazy right wing social platform...no way I can vote for a Republican...hard to believe I was a republican only 8 years ago...like Charlie Crist, this is a party that has simply abandoned any sense of moderation.

[pj8708]

I have enjoyed putting my two cent's worth in here from time to time, but I stoped quite awhile a go when, as Steve said, it became a tit for tat. At the end it's been down to logic, and thoughtful reason on one side, and..well..on the other. I would suggest that for the mean time, all of the energy that we've spent on this particular topic be spent on answering those post that no one has responded to yet.

[LennyF]

the real important unknown about obama is, "does he drive a Lexus?"

[lenore]

Nah he owns a Chevy Volt....After all he bailed them out....GM (Government Motors)

[lenore]

As usual an empty chair....US Embassies attacked....

[SW03ES]

Yeah, why didn't he mentally sense that an attack was coming, and head out there with a rifle and defend them himself?

[LexBob2]

Another crisis. Let the second guessing begin!!

[LEXIRX330]

Yeah, why didn't he mentally sense that an attack was coming, and head out there with a rifle and defend them himself?

I was going to bet you some money that you would keep posting! :)

[lenore]

What was missing was any anger towards the people that attacked our sovereign ground (The Embassy)....Just we will bring them to justice. History repeating just like Carter's years with the Iranian Embassy in the late 70's...Empty chairs in both cases...And this is his show of foreign policy to let them get off. That is because they the Muslim brotherhood doesnt respect us and feels we are just a weak has been country. I would immediately cancel all foreign aid to Egypt and Libya. There is no dealing with extremist living in the 6th century. Yes I am a hawk when it comes to protecting the United States of America, its people, and its territory.

[SW03ES]

Anger and rash statements don't solve problems. You may "immediately cut foreign aid", but that would be a rash decision brought on by anger...and emotional decisions have no place in high stakes foreign diplomacy, just as they have no place in business, etc.

The administration's statement seemed pretty clear to me.

I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack.

This evening, I called Libyan President Magariaf to coordinate additional support to protect Americans in Libya. President Magariaf expressed his condemnation and condolences and pledged his government’s full cooperation.

Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.

In light of the events of today, the United States government is working with partner countries around the world to protect our personnel, our missions, and American citizens worldwide.

I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi, which took the lives of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Right now, the American people have the families of those we lost in our thoughts and prayers. They exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe, and stand in stark contrast to those who callously took their lives.

I have directed my Administration to provide all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe. While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.

And this is his show of foreign policy to let them get off.

Who is letting anybody get off? This isn't a foreign government doing this...they're terrorists. There's no country to go bomb, and doing that anyways just martyrs them and makes them stronger.

[nc211]

Lenore, it just happened yesterday man, and it's a "fluid" situation today that is expanding. Nobody is letting anyone get away with anything, because there hasn't been enough time to determine that fact.

I think this whole Arab spring movement of toppling governments is going to blow up in our face. It's too much and too quick. I like the idea of freedom and liberty being spread. However, I'm starting to wonder if certain places in this world shouldn't have freedom and liberty, because they can't seem to control themselves. Seriously, violence over a cartoon and an internet video? Really? Sharia Law allows a man to beat and rape his wife when he feels it's appropriate, and even kill his own children, yet some idiot with an ipad creates a cartoon somewhere, and all of the sudden we have war? I don't want anything to do with these people anymore. Racist as that sounds, and I probably can't defend such an accusation against me for saying it, even though I know that it's wrong, but my word folks, this is just beyond insane behaviour we're seeing from a part of the world that seems to take our hundreds of billions of dollars with their left hand, while dragging the corpse of the cash-truck driver behind them with their right hand. I'm sick of it, and I'm done with that whole part of the world. If it went "boom bye bye", at this moment right now, I'd probably feel relieved, to be honest with you.

[SW03ES]

Right, and you have to realize that part of why these Arab extremists hate us so much is our imperialist policies of trying to get in there, inhabit their holy lands, and alter their way of life. If we weren't doing those things, this wouldn't be happening.

Romney said something today about how important it is that we increase defense spending to remain a "leader in the middle east" so that we remain respected, the reason why our embassies got attacked...the reason for 9/11, is because we're trying to be a "leader in the middle east".

I'm with Rob, F#ck these people...we've got our own problems. Trying to "help them" is making our problems worse, and putting our interests at risk.

[lenore]

Right, and you have to realize that part of why these Arab extremists hate us so much is our imperialist policies of trying to get in there, inhabit their holy lands, and alter their way of life. If we weren't doing those things, this wouldn't be happening.

Romney said something today about how important it is that we increase defense spending to remain a "leader in the middle east" so that we remain respected, the reason why our embassies got attacked...the reason for 9/11, is because we're trying to be a "leader in the middle east".

I'm with Rob, F#ck these people...we've got our own problems. Trying to "help them" is making our problems worse, and putting our interests at risk.

Give me a break, imperialist policyies? We have made those folks rich beyond their dreams....They just dont share it with their people. Because they only have the rich and the poor. But backing down from them wont stop anything. They only understand power....That is why dictators have been the only ones to control them in those nations. They are not our friends, I agree totally with you, but you have to make them respect your sword, because they dont want to stop just in their nations, they want World wide dominance with their laws. 9/ll happended because a bunch of lunatics that believe in Sharia laws want to destroy you, me, and western civilization...They have to be dealt with force, and power. Apologizing for our society just makes us look weak. As for NC yea if they made a glass parking lot out of that part of the world it wouldnt bother me a bit. They have shown how they live in the dark ages...They need to clean up their act and give some of that money to the people through jobs....That is what you see are millions of un-employed young people with no future. We are next when our young become discouraged with what our economy has to offer. (The occupation group) . But The first thing you do is make statements like Romney stated, that this is not acceptable, and will be dealt with.....

I know Obama doesnt think we should be a leader in the world, but name one other country that has done so much for so many throughout our history...Freedom is all we want for the peoples of the world.

[SW03ES]

Give me a break, imperialist policyies? We have made those folks rich beyond their dreams....They just dont share it with their people. Because they only have the rich and the poor.

But why is that our problem?!? We can't solve all the world's problems...we can't even solve our own!

But backing down from them wont stop anything. They only understand power....That is why dictators have been the only ones to control them in those nations. They are not our friends, I agree totally with you, but you have to make them respect your sword, because they dont want to stop just in their nations, they want World wide dominance with their laws.

Obviously the global "War on terror", all the years in Iraq and Afgahnistan, the elimination of all of their leaders and disruption of their networks didn't stop them from doing this, did it? You can't fight this enemy with force, you cut off its head and it makes them stronger.

9/ll happended because a bunch of lunatics that believe in Sharia laws want to destroy you, me, and western civilization..

Why do you think they want to destroy western civilization? Because they feel western civilization (namely, us) have infringed upon their holy lands and seek to destroy THEIR civilization. Did you ever listen to anything Osama bin Laden said in his video tirades?

They have to be dealt with force, and power. Apologizing for our society just makes us look weak.

We've been dealing with them with force and power, it was your own candidate who said we shouldn't "move heaven and earth" to take out their leader! Force and power didn't stop this from happening.

And nobody is apologizing for our society, they're just saying that they don't condone the media message that sought to marginalize Arab society, which we shouldn't condone. Who are we to dictate how others should live their lives?

They have shown how they live in the dark ages...They need to clean up their act and give some of that money to the people through jobs...

Why is that our problem?

I know Obama doesnt think we should be a leader in the world, but name one other country that has done so much for so many throughout our history...Freedom is all we want for the peoples of the world.

Of course he wants us to be a leader in the world. What we cannot afford to be however is the world's police force. We can't be out in the world toppling governments we don't agree with and nationbuilding. We have things we need to do here at home.

Who cares if the rest of the world is free. Lets worry about our own freedom for a while.

[lenore]

"Obviously the global "War on terror", all the years in Iraq and Afgahnistan, the elimination of all of their leaders and disruption of their networks didn't stop them from doing this, did it? You can't fight this enemy with force, you cut off its head and it makes them stronger."

So than are we to stand by and let them initiate Sharia law in our neighborhoods? Because that is exactly what they want.

They have shown how they live in the dark ages...They need to clean up their act and give some of that money to the people through jobs...

"Why is that our problem?"

They made it our problem by attacking our country at the trade center, Our embassies, our ships, our barracks, our air liners. They have no tolerance for any religon except their own... They have disrupted peace in about every major country in the world. Phillipines, Indonosia, and yes even in the US. They are not going to leave us alone until somebody puts the whoop-a@## on them....

[nc211]

Lenore, you do realize that there is a difference between the muslim religion, and these Islamic fanatics, right? Now, I agree that Sharia law doesn't fit the laws that govern this country. Several years ago, sharia law tried to make its way into the financial sector of the US, and it was laughed at all the way to the curb. Oklahoma has a county that has a sharia population that has been trying to get the Oklahoma legal system to support it, and it has failed time and time again. Saying we have to go invade every nation that supports sharia law because we don't like it, is a waste of time and a circular equation that will end in complete and total death of all involved, on both sides. Why in the hell would I want one of my countrymen to even waste a bullet or a dollar fighting with this garbage anymore? We dont govern the middle east. We tolerate it for economic purposes, and much of that toleration is influenced by our allies who depend on it far more than we do for economic reasons. 9/11 is over, it's settled, we won. In my opinion, I say let that place burn itself to the ground on its own. I also say that we make it clear to them (as we already have demonstrated with Iraq) that if you allow the violence that is within your own borders to spill over to our homeland, we will revert to total collateral destruction far worse than Iraq's precision that was employed to influence Americas positive influence. Beyond that - it's your own problem. Let us not forget that these embassies aren't in Toledo, they're in Lybia, Yemen, and the like. They might sit on soil classified as owned by the US, but they're surrounded by soil that we have no ownership in. Why go to war over a friggin building in a country of lunatics? Cut the aid, vacate the building, leave the country, and let them all expend the energy to kill themselves, instead of having us expend our own energy in trying to prevent them from doing so. Send 'em down the rabbit hole of poverty and 4th world living conditions on their own, while we watch from the sky and paid spies to make sure nobody gets out with a weapon. Find a terrorist camp forming? Daisy cut the f'ers during their prayer session to show now mercy or tolerance for that kind of activity. Hey, life is not guaranteed for any of us. Life is not infinite for any of us. We've tried and tried and tried to make peace, show compassion, and provide freedom to those oppressed. At the end of the day, if all that our efforts produce an endless round after round of hatred towards us and our values, then screw it! As Pauly D' says "you do you, and I'll do me". They want us to leave the alone, so be it. You won't see us anymore "but we'll see you, trust me." Allow the living conditions to deteriorate to Sudan levels, and see how easy it is to buy intel...

At the end of the day, so long as Isreal exists, the US will be a target for those too stupid and too immature to just go on with their own lives. I say the time for compassion and tolerance for the middle east is quickly coming to an end, and if this type of behavior is what we can expect going forward, then it should come to an end, in my opinion. They're like that bad drunk at your party who thinks he's respected for acting like an intimidating a'hole. At some point, he either is shown the door forcefully, or passes out and wakes up with parmenant marker all over his face in the back yard, with dog crap on his shirt, and never invited back. I say feed the dogs some beans, and let's get this over with so we can get back to the party! I'm not even that mad about this anymore. I don't have that feeling of bloodlust for revenge anymore. I simply have the feeling of "what a bunch of idiots!"

[SW03ES]

So than are we to stand by and let them initiate Sharia law in our neighborhoods? Because that is exactly what they want.

Paranoid much?

Actually...thats not what they want. They want us dead...all of us. Thats all they want. They're not trying to convert us, they want to murder us.

Anyways, how would that be different than how Christians spread Christianity all over the globe? How do you think they did that? With the edge of a sword.

They made it our problem by attacking our country at the trade center, Our embassies, our ships, our barracks, our air liners.

What you fail to comprehend though is that they did those things because of OUR actions, our imperialism, our occupation of their holy lands, our refusal to leave. That doesn't excuse it, doesn't mean they aren't our enemy. But continuing to bomb them and fight them isn't going to stop them...it makes them stronger, it solidifies their jihad against us.

Anyways, islamic terrorists attacked us...doesn't have anything to do with middle eastern states "living in the dark ages" or keeping their populations poor. To make that connection would be like saying because American terrorists bombed Oklahoma City that the US government did that, or because the KKK burned people at the stake that the US government did that. The US government certainly allowed the KKK to operate with impunity and turned their heads when they committed domestic terrorism over and over again.

I'm not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves from our enemies, I'm saying we should get the f@ck out of all these foreign countries and stop nationbuilding all over the place. Attack our embassies? Fine...we'll depart your country and never return...take all our money and aid with us and be better off. Never should have been there in the first place, and we were there WAY before anybody ever harmed a hair on an American's head.

They have no tolerance for any religon except their own...

Remind you of anyone? Before you get all butt-hurt on me, Christianity has killed a LOT of people my friend. Entire civilizations of people. Difference is, they did that in History whereas radical Islam is doing it now. Islam is no different than Christianity.

Like I said...religion can be an evil, evil thing.

They have disrupted peace in about every major country in the world. Phillipines, Indonosia, and yes even in the US. They are not going to leave us alone until somebody puts the whoop-a@## on them....

A simplistic solution from a simple perspective. We've been putting the "whoop !Removed!" on them. How has that been working? I bet the dead diplomats think...not so well. They're disrupting the peace in countries that are our allies. We're the common denominator.

You can't solve every problem with a bomb. This enemy is not some country where we can just go nuke their capitol and move on. Yu can't outgun this enemy. This is a fight that has to be fought with intelligence, strategy, foreign policy...and smart diplomacy.

Sometimes smart diplomacy is knowing when to quit, when to say "We've overstayed our welcome here, we're leaving. Good luck figuring this out on your own". Israel and Palestine want to blow the bejeezus out of each other. Let them. We're in their trying to stop the inevitable all over the place...and we just keep staving it off and putting ourselves at greater and greater risk...and for what? One day the conflict will happen, eventually we'll either be destroyed, or unable to hold it off any longer.

[LEXIRX330]

All I have to say is I agree, pull all aide, and get the F out.

[lenore]

Well one thing we can all agree on is pull their aid and pull out.....i AGREE COMPLETELY. Then let the vacuum begin. But will our goody two shoes in Congress do this?

Also pull all immigration visas from these folks...no more school for the future terrorist. Let them go to France and England where they have turned their societies into garbage.

[LexBob2]

One of my favorite lines is from the Nixon/Viet Nam era when one of his diplomats said, "it's time to delcare victory and leave".