Venture Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 I go to a forum on the Toyota Avalon (which I drive now - my wife has my old Lexus). There is continued speculation on the next Avalon. One person said his dealer told him that the new model would be announced next January and would have 270hp. I thought this was just one more piece of speculation until I noticed that the Lexus site now has details of a forthcoming hybrid car that appears to be like the RX330. This car would have an electric motor but also a gas engine that was (according to a Lexus press release) 3.3 liters and 270hp. Given that this is a useful figure to avoid negative comparisons with the Nissan 3.5 and Honda V6, it would seem to be a reasonable target. Obviously hybrids wouldn't be the norm, but since Lexus can get 270hp out of the 3.3, maybe that will be the low end Lexus V6 from early next year. I could be totally wrong on this, but there seems to be a need for this kind of power, and the reports of 270hp seem to be too much of a coincidence.
Lexusfreak Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Sounds about right.......I'm sure Lexus (Toyota) can tweak the 3.3L V6 to obtain that kind of output & it would compete with other vehicles in their respective catagories. I'd be willing to bet that the speculation is not far off from what the power numbers will be in the end. I've heard simular rumours as well.
SW03ES Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 I would be INCREDIBLY surprised if the ES330 increases in power at all, 270hp? No way. Lexus is so conservative with the ES, 270hp is more than the new GS330 is going to have. The ES isn't going to go over 240. Plus the ES is front drive and as you start getting into higher HP you have problems with smoothness and torque steer. Lexus isn't going to risk that.
Lexusfreak Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Well I have heard that the Avalon is getting a pretty big boost in HP, so all we can do is wait & see......if they put more HP in the ES, let's keep in mind that the ES is front drive, & would compete with the new TL with 270. Just what I've heard & read in at least 2 auto mags.
Lex3486 Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Wonder why Lexus has never made a "sport" model of the ES... I mean, I know that they've covered the "sport-luxury" market corner more with the GS and the SC but why not offer a pepped-up ES like Acura has done with the TL Type S? Or like Mercedes with the AMG C class? (can't remember the name...C43 possibly?) The ES may not be the sportiest looking sedan Lexus makes, or not the newer generation models anyway, but I still think they might have mild success with a sportier ES. B) Just my two cents
amf1932 Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Wonder why Lexus has never made a "sport" model of the ES... For the same reason that Rolls Royce never made one. The ES was NEVER designed to be a sports model.....It was originally geared to a certain kind of driver....one who is not really interested in extreme sporty driving. Lexus has the IS300 for that. ;)
Lexusfreak Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Also a fair point and agreed....the ES is a totally different kind of car.
Lex3486 Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Right on; ES's are better than those juvenile Acuras Us ES owners are on a different level :P Man, I looked at an IS last night (I'd never had a chance to really check one out) I really wish I hadn't b/c now it's all I think about lol :)
SW03ES Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 You'll never see any sport in the ES, thats what the IS is for.
Venture Posted March 6, 2004 Author Posted March 6, 2004 I doubt that many people think that the Acura is some sort of sporty car, and the same for the Maxima. But no-one likes to be left behind in the horsepower stakes, and right now 270hp is becoming far more common. Also, Toyota has expanded the number of models, and I could see that happening with Lexus as well. I'll guess that a more powerful engine will help to bridge the gap between the ES/GS and the LS. That's why we have a Lexus version of the 4Runner. Oh, and Rolls-Royce's sports car was the Bentley.
amf1932 Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 One other thing: They expect gas prices in the States to rise to about $3.00 per gallon. I'm sure that raising the HP will also lower your fuel economy. That probably is another consideration that Lexus is fitting into their equations.
amf1932 Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Oh, and Rolls-Royce's sports car was the Bentley. ......and Lexus's sports car is the SC. :D
Lexusfreak Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 More than fair amf......I feel my car has more than enough power for almost all situations. The question I ask is.....how much power is enough for people? As long as people keep buying the cars with more power, the car companies are going to keep making them. Lexus might also want to consider building all there cars to run specifically on regular fuel in addition to what you mentioned. Some might argue the point that if you can afford a Lexus, you should be able to afford the fuel for it........to some degree they have a point I guess. I'm just very happy I don't have to feed a Hummer!!
FLiP Sp33d Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 You'll never see any sport in the ES, thats what the IS is for. the IS is too small and the GS is real wheel drive. why not have the practicality of fwd and 270hp? i think lexus should at least consider it, with cars like the acura TL and infiniti i35 in mind. i wouldnt mind if lexus did what nissan did and put the same high hp motor in their enitre lineup, it would probably be cost effective too. 270hp IS, 270hp ES, i dunno maybe 300hp GS?
SW03ES Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 I would bet my reputation that we're not going to see this type of change with Lexus. One thing Lexus hates to do is overlap their models with one another, each model has its own specific niche. They were going to do away with the GS3 because it was too close to the ES, but they decided to move it upmarket and up power. Keep in mind that the GS430 only has 300hp and the LS430 only has 290, an ES330 with 270hp is just not going to happen. Lexus is only quoting the new 2006 GS330 at 250hp, why would they make an ES330 with 270? I don't see it happening. What we may see is this kind of HP in the new IS, but not in the ES. As to the question of why not have the advantage of power and the versitility of FWD, a couple of reasons: 1. Nobody likes FWD, no enthusiast would touch an ES because its FWD. Acura isn't aware of this, and sales of the new TL have been slow. Lexus however knows a high HP sporty FWD car has no marketability. But, a moderate HP FWD Luxury Car does, like the ES and the old TL (which sold very very well). 2. As you get higher in power, FWD works against you. Have you driven a new TL? It has torque steer and wheel hop (characteristics of high HP FWD vehicles) which isn't present in my ES300 because there isn't enough HP to make the car exhibit it. Just not gonna happen guys, Lexus wants the people interested in a sprty fast car in the IS. You say the IS is too small, but its the same size as the 3 Series, C Class, A4, CTS. The ES isn't designed to compete with any of those cars, its more suited to compete with the 525is and low optioned A6s of the world.
Lexusfreak Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 Should be intresting once Lexus & Toyota release the numbers on upcoming models for sure! :D
Lexusfreak Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 I do sw! :D you make some very good points which I totally agree. I haven't driven the new TL no....but my 01 Maxima had torque steer in spades & I knew it was because it was fwd. I don't get that in the ES however....like you mentioned, it's not built for that which is more than fine with me. I do however appreciate the traction a fwd car personally offers in the bad winter weather here in Ontario & the hp & torque numbers are pleanty for the kind of car it is. The AVS works well if I feel like stretching her legs on occasion & I worry if I have too much power I might be making the phone call from the horizontal telephone booth way too early than I should
dcfish Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 The es and camry are the same platform , either you want to drive a toyota or a lexus [ i traded my camry for a G3 ] :D :D :D
dcfish Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 Maybe i am wrong , i have a 93 es3 and i am with the understanding that the es and the camry share the same platform [ althuogh i do not know if this is still true ] does anybody know ????
SW03ES Posted March 7, 2004 Posted March 7, 2004 They're the same platform, about 20% of the ES' components come from the Camry (no body panels or interior components, just some structural peices and the engine which will soon also be in the GS and the IS). The RX is also on the Camry platform. What I didnt understand was the point of your statement.
FLiP Sp33d Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I would bet my reputation that we're not going to see this type of change with Lexus. One thing Lexus hates to do is overlap their models with one another, each model has its own specific niche. They were going to do away with the GS3 because it was too close to the ES, but they decided to move it upmarket and up power. Keep in mind that the GS430 only has 300hp and the LS430 only has 290, an ES330 with 270hp is just not going to happen. Lexus is only quoting the new 2006 GS330 at 250hp, why would they make an ES330 with 270? I don't see it happening.What we may see is this kind of HP in the new IS, but not in the ES. As to the question of why not have the advantage of power and the versitility of FWD, a couple of reasons: 1. Nobody likes FWD, no enthusiast would touch an ES because its FWD. Acura isn't aware of this, and sales of the new TL have been slow. Lexus however knows a high HP sporty FWD car has no marketability. But, a moderate HP FWD Luxury Car does, like the ES and the old TL (which sold very very well). 2. As you get higher in power, FWD works against you. Have you driven a new TL? It has torque steer and wheel hop (characteristics of high HP FWD vehicles) which isn't present in my ES300 because there isn't enough HP to make the car exhibit it. Just not gonna happen guys, Lexus wants the people interested in a sprty fast car in the IS. You say the IS is too small, but its the same size as the 3 Series, C Class, A4, CTS. The ES isn't designed to compete with any of those cars, its more suited to compete with the 525is and low optioned A6s of the world. good points! i guess what i want is something big, practical, and fast... possibly an awd gs430? that thing is going to need more than 300hp, maybe lexus can work in conjunction with trd to come up with some supercharger package so the gs can compete against the rs6 and e55? anyways, back to the es... i believe there's a limit to how much horespower you can put in that car to the point where it's not exhibiting too much torque steer and wheel hopping. so i think lexus can do better than 225hp... 240? as for competitors, i dont expect an es to out handle a 3 series but should be almost as fast as a 330i auto. 0-60 in high 6? fun thread guys! keep it alive
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