2011 Cpo Es350 With Blank Fax History Information

[Prasant]

Hi,

I bought my 2011 CPO ES350 this saturday. Has 14k on it. Only thing which concerns me is that when you see the car fax history, all it has is the date when it was registered and then at 14k when it was offered for sale as CPO from the dealer. When asked, the sales man said that this was a loaner car. Got it for 34k $ with nav package.

Now questions:-

Why the car fax does not show anything for when it was used as a loaner car? Apparently it was not registered. But the how can the dealer use it as loaner when it was not registered?

Was this a good deal. Asking price was 35.9k but I had no solid grounds for much negotiations as KBB, NADA and edmunds were giving much higher prices.

Thanks in advance for responses.

BR,

Prasant

[LexBob2]

Hi,

I bought my 2011 CPO ES350 this saturday. Has 14k on it. Only thing which concerns me is that when you see the car fax history, all it has is the date when it was registered and then at 14k when it was offered for sale as CPO from the dealer. When asked, the sales man said that this was a loaner car. Got it for 34k $ with nav package.

Now questions:-

Why the car fax does not show anything for when it was used as a loaner car? Apparently it was not registered. But the how can the dealer use it as loaner when it was not registered?

Was this a good deal. Asking price was 35.9k but I had no solid grounds for much negotiations as KBB, NADA and edmunds were giving much higher prices.

Thanks in advance for responses.

BR,

Prasant

Not sure about the Car Fax question, but you can log on and register at lexus.com and see the service history of the car. You just plug in the VIN #.

[pj8708]

Hi,

I bought my 2011 CPO ES350 this saturday. Has 14k on it. Only thing which concerns me is that when you see the car fax history, all it has is the date when it was registered and then at 14k when it was offered for sale as CPO from the dealer. When asked, the sales man said that this was a loaner car. Got it for 34k $ with nav package.

Now questions:-

Why the car fax does not show anything for when it was used as a loaner car? Apparently it was not registered. But the how can the dealer use it as loaner when it was not registered?

Was this a good deal. Asking price was 35.9k but I had no solid grounds for much negotiations as KBB, NADA and edmunds were giving much higher prices.

Thanks in advance for responses.

BR,

Prasant

This probably varies by state, but here in Iowa, all of a dealers inventory, new and used, is classified in a category called, "Dealers Registry" until such time as the auto is sold. When I'm given a service loaner, they must put license plates on the car that say "Dealer", then a license plate number. Using these "Dealer" plates must also be used when driving a pre-owned car or a new car.

When the car is sold, it then becomes registered to the new owner. Given this process, the car is never truly registered to anyone until it has a true owner and, the registration and license fees are paid, and the state gets it's taxes.

As for Car Fax, If your car has never been sold before or registered to an individual, what would you expect to find?

[LexBob2]

Hi,

I bought my 2011 CPO ES350 this saturday. Has 14k on it. Only thing which concerns me is that when you see the car fax history, all it has is the date when it was registered and then at 14k when it was offered for sale as CPO from the dealer. When asked, the sales man said that this was a loaner car. Got it for 34k $ with nav package.

Now questions:-

Why the car fax does not show anything for when it was used as a loaner car? Apparently it was not registered. But the how can the dealer use it as loaner when it was not registered?

Was this a good deal. Asking price was 35.9k but I had no solid grounds for much negotiations as KBB, NADA and edmunds were giving much higher prices.

Thanks in advance for responses.

BR,

Prasant

This probably varies by state, but here in Iowa, all of a dealers inventory, new and used, is classified in a category called, "Dealers Registry" until such time as the auto is sold. When I'm given a service loaner, they must put license plates on the car that say "Dealer", then a license plate number. Using these "Dealer" plates must also be used when driving a pre-owned car or a new car.

When the car is sold, it then becomes registered to the new owner. Given this process, the car is never truly registered to anyone until it has a true owner and, the registration and license fees are paid, and the state gets it's taxes.

As for Car Fax, If your car has never been sold before or registered to an individual, what would you expect to find?

Paul, where do you live in Iowa? We lived in Cedar Rapids and Davenport (Quad Cities) before moving to the Chicago area.

[pj8708]

Hey LexBob,

I live in Des Moines and have for many years. I have a good friend in Cedar Rapids and have always liked the city.

There is a excellent Lexus dealer here, but as you can guess, with the size of Iowa, it's the only dealer in the state....until you get to the Mississippi.

Wave if you go by!

Paul

[SW03ES]

If it was a loaner car it wouldn't show an ownership record in Carfax probably.

Not a lot you can do about it but you did ask...not a terrific deal IMHO. I only paid $2k more for my ES350 with nav brand new in 2010. Pricing between 2010 and 2011 is about the same.

[RickC5]

FWIW, here in Colorado, car dealers have state-issued "dealer plates" that they use for customer test drives and loaner cars. This allows dealers to use cars for loaners without registering them. Could be that's what happened with yours--no registration = no CarFax.

As a side note, whenever I'm given a loaner, I frequently "drive it like I stole it!" So much fun!!! Hope that didn't happen too many times to yours.

[Prasant]

Hi SWO3ES, Your deal for ES350 with Nav at $36k is amazing. I do not know how you got it even in 2010 when even the invoice price is @40K with the options. See below. I got it from Edmunds. What points did you give to justify your given price.?

Base Price

$34,400

Navigation System

$2,277

Ultra Luxury Package

$3,251 Total $39,928

Personally I did some research around and for a used one, all KBB, edmunds and NADA were giving pretty high pricing. All the listed price in auto trader or dealers web site were around this much. So, there was nothing I could tell him to justify and I just threw in a random price of 34K (asking was 35.9K). Within 20 minutes and two consultations with manager, he agreed. So, I could not say anything. Perhaps there was some mistake in my research but could not find anything yet. Since it is a certified one, I am not concerned about the condition of the car as it comes with a warrunty for 3 years.

BR

[Prasant]

Also Rick, I do not see how driving crazy can really harm a car unless it has accidents. I do not have much knowledge of auto mechanics, but driving badly over a period can at the most break the shock absorber, engine mounts etc. Engine performance should still be okay if vehicles are maintained well.

[LexBob2]

Keep in mind that loaner cars are driven by different people with different driving styles day in and day out. As you said IF they are maintained properly. They probably are, but I'd still be a little leery not knowing. On the other hand they are sold regularly so there probably isn't much to worry about since they have warranties.

[SW03ES]

Hi SWO3ES, Your deal for ES350 with Nav at $36k is amazing. I do not know how you got it even in 2010 when even the invoice price is @40K with the options. See below. I got it from Edmunds. What points did you give to justify your given price.?

My car doesn't have the Ultra Luxury package, it has navigation, HID headlights, heated and cooled front seats, parking assist, wood leather wheel, etc. MSRP was $41,215. Sales price was $36k. They did have an incentive at the time for $1k for returning ES owners, so otherwise it would have been $37k. Invoice is much lower than $40k, invoice was high $36's.

Nothing amazing about my deal, I'm a tough negotiator and always pay the bottom price when I buy a car, but I know Paul bought his after mine and got a similar deal. I have a few coworkers who bought them the same time and also got similar deals.

Does yours have the full glass roof with front and rear sunroofs? If it does not its not an Ultra Luxury model.

Also Rick, I do not see how driving crazy can really harm a car unless it has accidents. I do not have much knowledge of auto mechanics, but driving badly over a period can at the most break the shock absorber, engine mounts etc. Engine performance should still be okay if vehicles are maintained well.

It makes a huge difference in the body rigidity, the lifespan of a whole host of components such as the struts, mounts, bushings, all of which are VERY expensive on a Lexus. I would never buy a loaner car, there are plenty of these cars out there coming of leases and such that are well maintained. Even if you had to pay $37k for a brand new one...I think $3k more for a new one vs a loaner would be a no brainer.

[RickC5]

It makes a huge difference in the body rigidity, the lifespan of a whole host of components such as the struts, mounts, bushings, all of which are VERY expensive on a Lexus. I would never buy a loaner car, there are plenty of these cars out there coming of leases and such that are well maintained. Even if you had to pay $37k for a brand new one...I think $3k more for a new one vs a loaner would be a no brainer.

Totally agree! Driving a (loaner) vehicle hard will stress and prematurely age the components MUCH more than the typical owner who has an investment to maintain. Buying a loaner, even a Lexus, is a total crap shoot IMHO. The only reason for doing so is a deal that is too good to believe, in which case it probably shouldn't be believed.

[denslexusgx470]

I'm not sure about the law with car sales in other states too, but here in California (or at least here in my town) they state on the "Warranty/As-Is No Warranty" sticker that it was a rental/loaner. Also with my local Lexus dealer the carfax shows it as "Dealer took title of vehicle while in inventory" and sometimes they state a few services in the report, sometimes not. I would just run the vin with the service advisor, do a thorough check of the vehicle, drive it (as many times as u need, don't let the sales guy boss u around!), and let CPO (if it is a CPO) take care of any problems down the road.

Well in your case you already purchased the vehicle but this is just for future reference about my $.02