More Bad News For Toyota

[The G Man]

Consumer Reports has given the Lexus GX 460 SUV a rare "Don't Buy" warning, saying a problem that occurred during routine handling tests could lead to a rollover accident in real-world driving.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Consumer-Reports-calls-Lexus-apf-2415389625.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

[dcfish]

I heard this on the morning radio show today. Toyota/Lexus better get there sheet together

[The G Man]

I heard this on the morning radio show today. Toyota/Lexus better get there sheet together

Toyota had the same problem with the 4runner 2 generations ago as well, lets hope it is something they can fix with some stability system re-programming.

[tim john]

Didn't the Gov. test this vehicle before it was released to be sold in the U.S.? Did they not catch this? Is consumer reports 100% correct all the time? What was redesigned on this vehicle from 2009 model? The whole platform of the vehicle or bigger engine or cosmetics?

Tim

[The G Man]

Didn't the Gov. test this vehicle before it was released to be sold in the U.S.? Did they not catch this? Is consumer reports 100% correct all the time? What was redesigned on this vehicle from 2009 model? The whole platform of the vehicle or bigger engine or cosmetics?

Tim

The Feds really doesnt road test roll over risk, they use a math calculation to determine how much roll over risk each vehicle has. The 2010 GX460 is brand new, everything in the 2010 is different from the 09. I am assuming the center of gavity is higher as well, hance the higher risk of roll over.

[eatingupblacktop]

Besides being one ugly vehicle (imo with apologies to all GX owners), I always thought it was too narrow and too tall, so for me, the roll over issue isn't surprising. As for the stability system, it seems the programming kicks in too late to help out when the rear starts sliding out.

[timj]

I find it sad that a magazine finds out that a car may have a safety issue and not the NHTSA.

Tim

[The G Man]

Here is the video of the skid for those of you who havent seen it. It looks like the Lexus was going about 40 to 50 MPH and it skidded like the stability system was not on.

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010/04/13/n_toyota_lexus_gx_460_suv_skid.cnnmoney/?cnn=yes&hpt=C2

[cduluk]

...seriously? Discontinuing sales of an SUV because it could roll over?

What's next??

[nc211]

well, you know what this means don't you? Toyota sales will INCREASE, as they did some 30%+ last month. Simply stated: Folks haven't forgotten about Toyota's legendary track record of dependability, don't really care about the "cover up", and see this as a good time to get a good deal on a new Toyota. Seriously, how many folks out there who are stuck with a GM vehicle they hate wouldn't take this opportunity to ditch the Lumina for a Camry at bargain prices. Especially when they know Toyota will fix their car if it has any problems, quickly.

I've got an 05' 4runner, and I can tell you first hand that I would not want to be in that car if I had to take emergency manuvers. Even with AWD and the best tires for the car, new Michelins, I still get nervous driving freeway speeds in the rain in that car. The last thing I'd want to experience is a hydroplane in our 4runner, and sadly, I have a little already. Talk about a "puckering" feeling! The GX certainly appears to be taller. In fact, I think I read somewhere the GX in question here is aoubt 3 inches taller than the new 4runner. And, for reasons I can't figure out, they have airbag suspensions in the back. No way I'd even consider the remote possibility of one of my struts "popping" on an SUV.

CR also said the same thing about the Mitsubishi Montero several years ago. Mitsubishi did nothing about it, and still sell them over seas under a different model name. I think Dens knows what they're called now.

At the end of the day though, anyone who thinks the "S" in SUV means sports driving, shouldn't be behind the wheel of one in general. They're haulers, through thick and thin. Put 12 inch spacers on the wheels, and they'd still flip over if asked to perform certain manuvers that a normal sedan can do. I've been in one that did roll, in high school "92' Blazer LT 4door". Kid had an Iroc previously. Riding in the back seat, alone, no seat belt, sitting in the middle holding both 'oh sh&t handles. Going 60 mph down a dirt hill into a mud puddle. Kid made it slide sideways in the mud, front right tire hit the dry dirt, came off the rim which acted like a pivot point, and the whole damn thing went up into the air and slamed on all sides. When we came to a rest after a full roll, my legs were sticking out of the back door window. Lucky as hell I wasn't paralized or worse. But that doesn't compare to the beating I took from my dad that night when he found out how stupid I had been to allow myself to be in that kind of situation to begin with. That old man, simply, kicked my !Removed!!!

[timj]

After reading and listing to all the crap about the GX 460, watching the video, the car did not roll over. I would like to see CR do some test on some of the mini monster trucks on the road. I had a lifted truck, about 4 inches, taller tires, I know that wasn't safe. I see much worse on the road, I worked on and lifted trucks, short box Chevys, 6 inch lifts, body lifts and 40 inch tires. If I had the money, I would buy a GX 460. This media crap is stupid.

Tim

[The G Man]

After reading and listing to all the crap about the GX 460, watching the video, the car did not roll over. I would like to see CR do some test on some of the mini monster trucks on the road. I had a lifted truck, about 4 inches, taller tires, I know that wasn't safe. I see much worse on the road, I worked on and lifted trucks, short box Chevys, 6 inch lifts, body lifts and 40 inch tires. If I had the money, I would buy a GX 460. This media crap is stupid.

Tim

CR does not test modified cars nor do they test work trucks. The GX460 in question is in factory form. What CR say was that due to the skid, if there have been an object in the skid path such as a sidewalk curb, the GX would have flip over. There are two schools of thoughts out there now, some would logically say, let Toyota work out all their safety and quality problems before buying one, and then there are people who just want to save a few bucks and take a risk and buy one now. Either way, Toyota is losing some customers.

[nc211]

I don't know how they're losing customers, when their sales are up big time, as reported on Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago for March.

I would be curious to see a CR on a minivan that slides sideways like that as well and hits a curb too. I don't think there is an SUV out there that doesn't risk a roll over scenario if one of the tires comes off the rim and the rim digs into the pavement and acts like a pivot point. As Tim pointed out above, the GX didn't roll in it's skid. I'd like to see one of these new Jeep Commandos do that trick and not roll. Heck, I hit a curb in my 1987 VW GTI when I was a kid going about 45 mph hotdogin' it and nearly rolled it too. Again, another well deserved butt-kickin' from my dad. :whistles:

[The G Man]

I don't know how they're losing customers, when their sales are up big time, as reported on Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago for March.

I would be curious to see a CR on a minivan that slides sideways like that as well and hits a curb too. I don't think there is an SUV out there that doesn't risk a roll over scenario if one of the tires comes off the rim and the rim digs into the pavement and acts like a pivot point. As Tim pointed out above, the GX didn't roll in it's skid. I'd like to see one of these new Jeep Commandos do that trick and not roll. Heck, I hit a curb in my 1987 VW GTI when I was a kid going about 45 mph hotdogin' it and nearly rolled it too. Again, another well deserved butt-kickin' from my dad. :whistles:

One or two months of increase sales does not mean they have regain all their prevoius customer's trust. Wait until the end of the year, my bet is that the numbers will be far short of the sales numbers from last year, even with the heavy incetives.

As far as I know CR perform the same test on the all newly design cars and SUVs and they did not assigned a dont buy warning for the Jeep Commando, so obviously, the Jeep pass the test. By the way, CR do not test SUV with one tire coming off the rim :). I use to owned a 05 GX470, I know how untsable that SUV is at high speed. I am just very surprise Lexus didnt improve the design to make it more stable. The funny thing is that my 05 GX's stability system works great, I have never been able to fish tail like the new GX in the video even in the snow. I wonder if Lexus actually cut some corners in the design of the new GX's stability system.

[nc211]

One or two months of increase sales does not mean they have regain all their prevoius customer's trust. Wait until the end of the year, my bet is that the numbers will be far short of the sales numbers from last year, even with the heavy incetives.

As far as I know CR perform the same test on the all newly design cars and SUVs and they did not assigned a dont buy warning for the Jeep Commando, so obviously, the Jeep pass the test. By the way, CR do not test SUV with one tire coming off the rim :). I use to owned a 05 GX470, I know how untsable that SUV is at high speed. I am just very surprise Lexus didnt improve the design to make it more stable. The funny thing is that my 05 GX's stability system works great, I have never been able to fish tail like the new GX in the video even in the snow. I wonder if Lexus actually cut some corners in the design of the new GX's stability system.

I agree, a couple of months of positive sales growth doesn't dictate market share. However, a 30%+ sales growth right in the middle of a company's darkest hour, sure does say something extremely strong to me about a company and it's products. I also think it is extremely telling these figures are seen while we're still in the grips of one of the worst economic recessions of modern times, certain in our lifetime so far.

I don't know if they cut corners, or simply were going to fast to catch a computer setting error. I'm sure it's an easy fix to just increase the sensitivty of the stability control system to kick on earlier. Clearly though, you're right, something was missed and the truck should not be allowed to powerslide like the friggin' General Lee! That would scare the crap out of me!!! Our 4runner's system kicks on at the drop of a dime. I tested it a few times this winter in the snow. Even with awd, that system would beep and pull me back in line if I intentionally tried to get the rear to slide out even a few degrees.

Didn't CR say something similiar about the Isuzu Trooper / Acura SUV in the 90's too? I've seen two of those on the roof by just going a tad too fast around a roundabout in the street.

[The G Man]

I agree, a couple of months of positive sales growth doesn't dictate market share. However, a 30%+ sales growth right in the middle of a company's darkest hour, sure does say something extremely strong to me about a company and it's products. I also think it is extremely telling these figures are seen while we're still in the grips of one of the worst economic recessions of modern times, certain in our lifetime so far.

I don't know if they cut corners, or simply were going to fast to catch a computer setting error. I'm sure it's an easy fix to just increase the sensitivty of the stability control system to kick on earlier. Clearly though, you're right, something was missed and the truck should not be allowed to powerslide like the friggin' General Lee! That would scare the crap out of me!!! Our 4runner's system kicks on at the drop of a dime. I tested it a few times this winter in the snow. Even with awd, that system would beep and pull me back in line if I intentionally tried to get the rear to slide out even a few degrees.

Didn't CR say something similiar about the Isuzu Trooper / Acura SUV in the 90's too? I've seen two of those on the roof by just going a tad too fast around a roundabout in the street.

Like all my AWD vehicles, I took my 05 GX470 out to a empty parking lot on the 1st sign of snow to test what the AWD can do. I remember being amazing on how good the stability system works on the 05 GX, everytime I slide just a bit, the stability system cought the back end and put the truck back into a straight line, it was almost like its on rail.

I sure hope it is just a matter of programming the stability system to be more sensitive, but from my pass experience of how Lexus' stability programming always plays it safe, unlike German cars, I think there might be something more going on here. Perhaps they deleted one of the sensors, maybe they are using a cheaper vendor for some of the components in the stability system, I am just guessing at this point.

CR did give the Acura SRX and the Isuzu Trooper high roll over possibility warnings. I am very surprise the Rover LR3 is not on the list, I seen a few of those on its side a couple of times.

[moonrayker]

So if you throw this car into a corner too fast, it skids. Is that a surprise to anyone? If so, what are they doing on the road at all? I know that the issue is the function of the traction/stability control, but no accessory or computer system is an excuse for driving like an idiot. No matter what systems a car has, ABS, VSC, traction control, or anything else, these are there to aid in driving, not to remove the responsibility from the driver or to save the vehicle in any situation.

[timj]

That's it, I'm buying a Smart car. Now that's safe. Throw in a couple of Suzuki GS 1100 bikes for the kids. I'll feel much safer. Motorcycles must have air bags and all that safety stuff right? Gota go to the store and buy a the latest copy of CR.

Tim

[The G Man]

So if you throw this car into a corner too fast, it skids. Is that a surprise to anyone? If so, what are they doing on the road at all? I know that the issue is the function of the traction/stability control, but no accessory or computer system is an excuse for driving like an idiot. No matter what systems a car has, ABS, VSC, traction control, or anything else, these are there to aid in driving, not to remove the responsibility from the driver or to save the vehicle in any situation.

The question I ask you and Toyoya is this: What if you are not driving like an idiot, just plainly trying to get out of the way of something. What if it is it a emergency maneuver?

[nc211]

I agree. If an idiot can roll a Enzo in Southern California, then he can roll anything. The problem here, like Gman says, is in an emergency situation, like driving down the freeway.

I nearly hit someone who pulled out in front of me this morning. I had to stand on the brakes in the Lexus to not smash into her rear passenger side. Had I been in the 4runner, not sure if I would have missed her. I told that btch off something fierce when I realized her child was in that back passenger side, and she was on the damn blackberry! Let's just say I probably won't be getting any christmas cards from her. What a VERY lucky idiot!

[The G Man]

I agree. If an idiot can roll a Enzo in Southern California, then he can roll anything. The problem here, like Gman says, is in an emergency situation, like driving down the freeway.

I nearly hit someone who pulled out in front of me this morning. I had to stand on the brakes in the Lexus to not smash into her rear passenger side. Had I been in the 4runner, not sure if I would have missed her. I told that btch off something fierce when I realized her child was in that back passenger side, and she was on the damn blackberry! Let's just say I probably won't be getting any christmas cards from her. What a VERY lucky idiot!

It never seize to amaze me that people are willing to risk their child life while driving on the freeway in order to answer a text. We should sent these drivers back to driving school and remind them of what the laws of physics can do to a moving object at 65 MPH.

[wlk12]

We should sent these drivers back to driving school and remind them of what the laws of physics can do to a moving object at 65 MPH.

That's not where I'd like to send them

[SW03ES]

What I find hilarious about this is...what did we all do before we had stability control? Remember back when people knew how to drive cars and get themselves out of skids without the aid of skid control systems?

So the skid control doesn't work well, doesn't make the vehicle unsafe. Skid control systems aren"t required by law and they aren't a replacement for driving skill. I suppose CR should go back and label all the SUVs without skid control they've given stellar ratings for "Unsafe/Don't Buy" too.

Now the VSC system needs to be repaired, they'll design a computer program to do that and it'll be no big deal. Unsafe? This is CR trying to cash in on the Toyota mayhem IMHO.

[RX in NC]

Maybe so. But as long as these types of stories keep popping up in the media, my chances of making some fairly decent money off of my Toyota May 2010 put options continue to increase. Just two more weeks of negative press - that's all I'm asking for....

[blake918]

The recall of 600k Siennas ought to help ya RX!

http://www.freep.com...Sienna-minivans

Bad Toyota press from CR always cracks me up since CR has been a long time Toyota-Lexus !Removed!. This isn't much of an issue to me because I wouldn't buy a GX in the first place. However, if a car comes equipped with a safety feature, it ought to work properly.