2004 Rx330 Spark Plug / 90k Mile Service Issues

[wctm]

I need help from this forum... I have a 04 RX330 with 90K miles. I am due for the 90K service, but after reading several posts, not sure if it is worth changing the timing belt until 120K miles. The dealer wants to do the standard 90K service but also telling me to have the spark plugs, water pump and seals replaced as well. I thought the plugs don't need changing until 120K (what should I look for if they need changing sooner). As for the water pump, it works fine now, so why spend the money for something that works?!? Anyway, any and all help in deciding to wait on the timing and/or spark plugs would be appreciated.

[newtoncd]

I need help from this forum... I have a 04 RX330 with 90K miles. I am due for the 90K service, but after reading several posts, not sure if it is worth changing the timing belt until 120K miles. The dealer wants to do the standard 90K service but also telling me to have the spark plugs, water pump and seals replaced as well. I thought the plugs don't need changing until 120K (what should I look for if they need changing sooner). As for the water pump, it works fine now, so why spend the money for something that works?!? Anyway, any and all help in deciding to wait on the timing and/or spark plugs would be appreciated.

The timing belt can *probably* wait until 105K, maybe to 120K; however, if it breaks before, it could damage the engine. The 3.3L V6 is an interference design. As for the plugs, they are good for at least 100K. You just save some labor cost if you have them done at the same time.

The water pump is another one of those, can it make it to 200K for your next belt change? If it isn't replaced now and it fails at say, 150K, the engine could be damaged. So, you don't have to replace the water pump, it is just recommended because replacing the water pump is cheap insurance.

Also, if you are going to the dealer, I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere. I use an independent that specializes in Toyota/Lexus and the cost was about $700 for the timing belt, water pump, Iridium spark plugs, coolant exchange and serpentine belt. My quote from Lexus was about $1600 for the same package.

[wctm]

Thanks for your input. The dealer wants $1900 for everything or $1200 for just the standard 90K service. I am planning on keeping this car until it dies and don't trust several independent shops due to "cutting corners" so it looks like I have to go with the $1900 for the services. Any other feedback on what to do here is appreciated! Thanks.

[RX in NC]

Bad decision on your part. The dealer is hosing you. These timing belts are well-engineered and will easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles if the vehicle is not driven like a bat out of hell. The iridium spark plugs will also easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles. Waste your money with your dealer if it will make you sleep better. In the meantime, our 2004 RX330 AWD (currently at 98,400 miles) will just keep rolling right along with its original timing belt and spark plugs....

[1990LS400]

Or you could just follow the maintenance schedule in your maintenance booklet -- seems to be a reliable way to make these cars last a long time and with minimal stress.

[wctm]

Or you could just follow the maintenance schedule in your maintenance booklet -- seems to be a reliable way to make these cars last a long time and with minimal stress.

[code58]

Thanks for your input. The dealer wants $1900 for everything or $1200 for just the standard 90K service. I am planning on keeping this car until it dies and don't trust several independent shops due to "cutting corners" so it looks like I have to go with the $1900 for the services. Any other feedback on what to do here is appreciated! Thanks.

I agree with RX in NC. Having had experience with my DIL's RX (I do all the work on it), what is recommended in the 90k mi. service is ultra conservative. I have only ever read of 1 person who actually had a water pump fail on them, and I am hard pressed to figure out how that happened. I cut the water pump apart that I took out of my DIL's RX at around 127k mi. (I think) and the W/P looked absolutely new. It was definitely original. It is the finest design I have ever seen on a W/P, it is difficult to see how it could ever leak with the multiple seal design (ceramic and rubber w/spring back-up for the 3rd seal) It also uses a double row of ball bearings that sit directly under the T/B which drives it. Even the grease was totally live at that mileage. The only weak point at all is the tensioner idler bearing which is a single row of B/B. The upper idler pulley also has a double row of bearings and the grease was totally live there also. ALL bearings mic'd EXACTLY the same, even though the tensioner bearings were totally dry of grease, they were smooth as glass and like a mirror and mic'd exactly the same as the others. The price that Lexus gave you is indeed a rip-off in my estimation. If you're semi wealthy, I guess they have to eat too, but FILLET MINON??? We have more than one truly excellent and honest independent Lexus shops in this area that I'm sure would do the work for about 60-65% of the price they gave you. And definitely no corner cutting either. That is why they have outstanding reputations.

[code58]

Bad decision on your part. The dealer is hosing you. These timing belts are well-engineered and will easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles if the vehicle is not driven like a bat out of hell. The iridium spark plugs will also easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles. Waste your money with your dealer if it will make you sleep better. In the meantime, our 2004 RX330 AWD (currently at 98,400 miles) will just keep rolling right along with its original timing belt and spark plugs....

You may be familiar with the T/B and Iridium plugs but if not, try reading up on them and you'll understand why they are just getting their 1st wind when others are taking the big DIRT NAP. They both, as well as other parts T/L uses are truly superior, hence the reason they last so long. When I took the T/B out of my DIL's RX I already had the new belt or I wouldn't have changed it. The original belt, at 97k mi. looked in absolutely perfect condition. Faint sign of wear and absolutely NO sign of cracking or other deterioration of any kind. I was amazed. I put a Goodyear Gatorback in and then replaced that with an OEM belt at 127k mi because I didn't like the looks of the wavy tracking when I replaced the other stuff. it looked worse at 30k mi than the original did at 97K mi. Live and learn!

[wctm]

Bad decision on your part. The dealer is hosing you. These timing belts are well-engineered and will easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles if the vehicle is not driven like a bat out of hell. The iridium spark plugs will also easily do 120,000 if not 150,000 miles. Waste your money with your dealer if it will make you sleep better. In the meantime, our 2004 RX330 AWD (currently at 98,400 miles) will just keep rolling right along with its original timing belt and spark plugs....

You may be familiar with the T/B and Iridium plugs but if not, try reading up on them and you'll understand why they are just getting their 1st wind when others are taking the big DIRT NAP. They both, as well as other parts T/L uses are truly superior, hence the reason they last so long. When I took the T/B out of my DIL's RX I already had the new belt or I wouldn't have changed it. The original belt, at 97k mi. looked in absolutely perfect condition. Faint sign of wear and absolutely NO sign of cracking or other deterioration of any kind. I was amazed. I put a Goodyear Gatorback in and then replaced that with an OEM belt at 127k mi because I didn't like the looks of the wavy tracking when I replaced the other stuff. it looked worse at 30k mi than the original did at 97K mi. Live and learn!

[wctm]

Thanks for your input. The dealer wants $1900 for everything or $1200 for just the standard 90K service. I am planning on keeping this car until it dies and don't trust several independent shops due to "cutting corners" so it looks like I have to go with the $1900 for the services. Any other feedback on what to do here is appreciated! Thanks.

I agree with RX in NC. Having had experience with my DIL's RX (I do all the work on it), what is recommended in the 90k mi. service is ultra conservative. I have only ever read of 1 person who actually had a water pump fail on them, and I am hard pressed to figure out how that happened. I cut the water pump apart that I took out of my DIL's RX at around 127k mi. (I think) and the W/P looked absolutely new. It was definitely original. It is the finest design I have ever seen on a W/P, it is difficult to see how it could ever leak with the multiple seal design (ceramic and rubber w/spring back-up for the 3rd seal) It also uses a double row of ball bearings that sit directly under the T/B which drives it. Even the grease was totally live at that mileage. The only weak point at all is the tensioner idler bearing which is a single row of B/B. The upper idler pulley also has a double row of bearings and the grease was totally live there also. ALL bearings mic'd EXACTLY the same, even though the tensioner bearings were totally dry of grease, they were smooth as glass and like a mirror and mic'd exactly the same as the others. The price that Lexus gave you is indeed a rip-off in my estimation. If you're semi wealthy, I guess they have to eat too, but FILLET MINON??? We have more than one truly excellent and honest independent Lexus shops in this area that I'm sure would do the work for about 60-65% of the price they gave you. And definitely no corner cutting either. That is why they have outstanding reputations.

Good information. Where I live, we don't have many indy's that do Lexus that I would trust, so looks like I have to go with the $1200 service. After reading these posts though, I may wait until 120K, not sure....

[newtoncd]

It is a difficult decision. I had ours replaced at 93K (wife was getting ready to take a long trip) and I didn't want to take any chances, but that was way too early. The belt looked to be in good shape.

I know you don't feel comfortable with an independent that specializes in Toyota, but how about the Toyota dealer? If your quote from Lexus is $1900, I am guessing the Toyota dealer will be about $1300/$1400 or so.

As for the interval, RX is right, it could go much longer; I just wish the engine wasn't an interference design. Then, while it isn't fun, it just leaves you stranded. Our 4 cylinder Camry belt broke, I had it towed to the shop, belt replaced and was back on the road in a few hours.

BTW, if this helps at all, a friend of mine is a Master Toyota Tech, who I trust implicitly. He recommends around 110K on both the timing belt and water pump.

As usual, YMMV.

[wctm]

It is a difficult decision. I had ours replaced at 93K (wife was getting ready to take a long trip) and I didn't want to take any chances, but that was way too early. The belt looked to be in good shape.

I know you don't feel comfortable with an independent that specializes in Toyota, but how about the Toyota dealer? If your quote from Lexus is $1900, I am guessing the Toyota dealer will be about $1300/$1400 or so.

As for the interval, RX is right, it could go much longer; I just wish the engine wasn't an interference design. Then, while it isn't fun, it just leaves you stranded. Our 4 cylinder Camry belt broke, I had it towed to the shop, belt replaced and was back on the road in a few hours.

BTW, if this helps at all, a friend of mine is a Master Toyota Tech, who I trust implicitly. He recommends around 110K on both the timing belt and water pump.

As usual, YMMV.

Thanks for your input. I will sleep better going to the Lexus dealer and paying the difference. It may be wasted $$, but I am keeping this car forever and as I said, the indy's here IMO don't have a clue as to what to do. I was considering waiting until 120K for the timing belt, but again, it's cheap insurance to just do it now. Either spend the money now or wait until later running the risk of failure. The water pump however can wait as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen anyone here with any issues with that yet.

[newtoncd]

Thanks for your input. I will sleep better going to the Lexus dealer and paying the difference. It may be wasted $$, but I am keeping this car forever and as I said, the indy's here IMO don't have a clue as to what to do. I was considering waiting until 120K for the timing belt, but again, it's cheap insurance to just do it now. Either spend the money now or wait until later running the risk of failure. The water pump however can wait as far as I'm concerned. I haven't seen anyone here with any issues with that yet.

I haven't either, Toyota water pumps last a very long time. The big question, can it make it to ~200K for your next timing belt change? The labor to replace the pump is the same as the belt. Again, doesn't matter to me which route you take, I am just bringing up things to consider.

The reason I replaced both the water pump and timing belt was because the cost for those two items was $450. I had additional maintenance performed at the time, which raised the cost to around $750.

[code58]

The reason I replaced both the water pump and timing belt was because the cost for those two items was $450. I had additional maintenance performed at the time, which raised the cost to around $750.

That price is realistic. The OP's was not. He must look like he has money, I swear, the service writers are worse than salesman for sizing their customers up in the driveway and taking them for ALL they can get. I worked in automotive all my life and there is no way I could have paid those prices, and I think I made pretty decent money. I can buy all of the parts and supplies (original equipment) that they are going to use on the $1900. job for less than $300. There is a huge amount of profit built into that job, even for a Lexus dealer.

[wctm]

The reason I replaced both the water pump and timing belt was because the cost for those two items was $450. I had additional maintenance performed at the time, which raised the cost to around $750.

That price is realistic. The OP's was not. He must look like he has money, I swear, the service writers are worse than salesman for sizing their customers up in the driveway and taking them for ALL they can get. I worked in automotive all my life and there is no way I could have paid those prices, and I think I made pretty decent money. I can buy all of the parts and supplies (original equipment) that they are going to use on the $1900. job for less than $300. There is a huge amount of profit built into that job, even for a Lexus dealer.

I should have dressed down... lol Probably wouldn't have mattered. I was marked the second I walked in.

[code58]

I should have dressed down... lol Probably wouldn't have mattered. I was marked the second I walked in.

We're going to have to unmark you WC. Truly sorry to hear that you don't have any GOOD independent Lexus shops in your area. We have a lot of GOOD independents of all different makes in this area, and I mean really good. Most of the time they are owned by former mechanics of the brand they specialize in and employ mechanics from the same brand. I wouldn't generally recommend using a "jack-of-all-trades" independent shop either, but the ones that only work on the brand they specialize in are generally very good at that brand. The high line independents are use to treating customers the way they were treated at the dealer.

[FZ6 Dude]

The reason I replaced both the water pump and timing belt was because the cost for those two items was $450. I had additional maintenance performed at the time, which raised the cost to around $750.

That price is realistic. The OP's was not. He must look like he has money, I swear, the service writers are worse than salesman for sizing their customers up in the driveway and taking them for ALL they can get. I worked in automotive all my life and there is no way I could have paid those prices, and I think I made pretty decent money. I can buy all of the parts and supplies (original equipment) that they are going to use on the $1900. job for less than $300. There is a huge amount of profit built into that job, even for a Lexus dealer.

I should have dressed down... lol Probably wouldn't have mattered. I was marked the second I walked in.

If you are going to replace the timing belt, it only makes sense to replace the water pump at the same time. The technician has already done all of the labor to get to the belt, why not have them replace the water pump at the same time? It is a no brainer IMO. You will save a lot of money, especially if you are going the dealer route, to only pay for the tear down once.

Good Luck.