So, Now I'm Thinking Of One New...

[dcfish]

I like this Bad Boy.... My Father had a 1963 Le Sabre with the 410 Wildcat Engine, What a blast

[smooth1]

I hear ya', but I'm fortunate enough to say the economy doesn't suck for me. You want to talk about job security? How about being 1 of only 7 people charged with putting $3b in the economy throughout the US and Canada, and being 1 of 3 who covers everything east of Colorado! One of the trade-offs for making this move. My driving distances are about to change, we're moving the office in September. Plus, you know the golden rule....it's great to be a buyer when everyone else is trying to be a seller. With #2 on the way, I'd like for us to have the option to switch cars every now and then. As it is now, I'm the GS, she's the 4runner. I'd like to drive the 4runner sometimes, and she'd like to drive something else with the kids every now and then too. The GS doesn't cut it, we need a wagon in the mix. And, quite frankly, I loothe this GS, probably one of the most disappointing cars I've ever owned. I hate paying for things I don't like or want. However, that said, I do recognize the economy and the addition to the family. That is why I'm not considering a new car, just used. I'm really tempted to take a look at a decked out Ford Flex, but know better than to do so. No more Lexus's for me though. I won't argue that they're great cars, but I think I've scratched that itch for awhile...

So, anyone have anything to say about the Volvo? Obviously anything I decide to buy will have well documented and reviewed certified warranty. I'm seeing something called a T5, which is basically a turbo on the engine, bumping HP up from about 170 to 210ish. Not sure if I want to take on a turbo, but certainly intriqued

I have a 2000 S40 turbo. We just turned 90k miles on it. I've done all the maintanence on it since new. I happen to think that Ford was the best thing that happened to Volvo. There were some "engineering" issues before that Ford I thought did a great job of addressing. The car itself has been great. I did have to replace the motor mounts at 60k, (the replacements are much better.) and the ring clamp on the catalytic converter seemed to disintigrate away around the same time. But when I called Volvo for replacement parts, they fixed and replaced the cat for free even though it was out of warrentee mileage, and was 7 years old. Everything else has been good. I was thinking about getting an S60 to replace it when the time comes. Of course the Ford era version. Maybe an 08'.

[SW03ES]

The Volvos have a great record for safety, but I just can never quite bring myself to "like" one. To me they're a little too sweedish-quirky. Kind of like rolling around in an Ikea store...

Those 5 series wagons are nice...but RARE!

A coworker of mine just bought an '07 X5 that I love! I haven't driven it but she's been driving us around on broker tour every Tuesday (I always used to drive) and something about it...it rides well but its sporty...it has TONS of room in the front and rear without being abhorently huge outside. The material quality inside is excellent. It has 22k miles on it and I think she paid $40k or so...

I've considered whether I want one or not...

She has owned BMWs for years, mainly 3 series convertibles. She's had no problems but only keeps them until 70k or so. I have another coworker who has am '03 530 that he hates because its such a money pit. I think the big difference between a Lexus and a BMW in terms of reliability comes after 100,000 miles.

[LEXIRX330]

A coworker of mine just bought an '07 X5 that I love! I haven't driven it but she's been driving us around on broker tour every Tuesday (I always used to drive) and something about it...it rides well but its sporty...it has TONS of room in the front and rear without being abhorently huge outside. The material quality inside is excellent. It has 22k miles on it and I think she paid $40k or so...

I've considered whether I want one or not...

You know SW...I was in a 08 or 09 loaner...not sure which it was and it was real nice...I kind of have mixed feelings on it though. I actually prefer the ride and handling of the 06 X5 that I have vs. the new loaner that I was in. I will give then new X5 credit...hands down the NAV, overall electronics and interior is far better but as far as the ride and handling mine seems much better. Maybe because my X5 also has the sport package, not sure if the loaner did or not?

[SW03ES]

I'm sure the loaner did not...

[nc211]

SWO, I certainly agree with you regarding the 100k+ mark and where Lexus really shines.

I drove an 06 V70 wagon this weekend, normal engine (not the turbo). Granted, it's a 5 banger engine with 170 hp, but the way it's geared, it's hard to tell it only has 170 hp. I really like the car, found it to be comfortable, and practicle for our uses. It's definetly not as "refined" in the mechanicals as Lexus, but nothing really is for the price range I want to be in. The Mazda certainly wasn't, and I really enjoyed that little car. If they still have it in inventory this weekend, there is a pretty good chance I'll be trading the Lexus for it.

[nc211]

Well... I couldn't bring myself to the Volvo. I drove it again on friday afternoon, and just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I can't go from a silky smooth v8, to a very busy i5. We looked at an 07 Passat 4motion with the 268hp v6, awd, fully decked out with ALL the options, including the nav. It was blue with black leather. Very beautiful car. Had 39k miles, and was a "VW Preloved Certified" car. However, I was not impressed by the noises coming from the engine, could easily hear a bearing going out somewhere. And, here's a little something interesting that was a total "bait n' switch" about VW....that "preloved certified" status...isn't a warranty, unless you're willing to pay for it, at about $1,500+. No way, Jose'. Now, I haven't owned a VW since 1987, and was really stunned when I actually sat in the car, the center counsol is still way too low. You have to reach down to it, not over to it. Didn't like that at all. Plus, the price...way too high at $24k. That's BMW territory. Not to mention the d'bag salesman kept calling my flawless GS430 with only 62k miles, a Toyota. I made the comment that my "Toyota" at 9 years of age was probably smoother, stronger, more reliable, and better built than anything within 5,000 feet of him. He really ticked both me and my wife off. I told him "why would I trade a car that never puts me in the shop, for a car that everyone who's ever owned one, knows will, if it didn't automatically come with a bullet proof warranty from the manufacturer?" That dude was a twerp. Wanted BMW pricing, for a BMW wannabe car. Granted, it's a very nice car, truly beautiful, but no BMW.. Speaking of which....

Guess what just fell into my lap on Thursday.... a 2006 BMW 325 awd wagon, red with grey leather, 30k miles, true BMW certified with the 100k warranty for the next 4 years...every single option possible, from the i-drive system, right down to the heated steering wheel, panoramic sunroof, and pop-up head light washers. The BMW dealership that contacted me that it was coming in on trade, sold it new, and serviced it 100%. Drove by it today to take a look in peace with the wife and son. It's stunning..... Our boy walked up to it, put his finger on the front, turned to me and went "oohhhh...car car...ooohhhh". I'm taking the Lexus over at 9am tomorrow morning to drive it, and if I like it "which I'm pretty sure I will", will be making a fair offer for it. Called the insurance company today to check rate changes if I do end up switching cars....insurance for the BMW is about $120 cheaper than the Lexus! Go figure that one! Other funny element to this....the 4runner and today's interest rates. Going to have the bank recast the note to today's rate, not changing the remaining term, just the rate...lowers the payment by the exact amount the BMW would increase it over what I pay for the Lexus. Total cost for both cars is a complete wash, damn near right to the dollar! I hadn't realized interest rates where so darn low for used cars. So, let's hope it drive's nice, and they accept my offer. NOT looking forward to the process at all though, I hate car dealers. But, a necessary evil I guess for a car that I've wanted since I was a teenager, but never had the ability to have, until now. My fingers are crossed!

[nc211]

Guess I'm not foolish enough to buy the car. Those folks are fishing for idiots, and you'd have to be one to pay what they're asking, $24,990. THEN, came an additional $3,200 for taxes ($1,500) and $1,700 for all the other junk. First time i've actually seen "rust proofing" before in real life, at $395, and some kind of "special" conditioner applied to the dash and seats, at $395. My offer of the keys to the lexus and a check for $19,500, turned into their reply of $28k. Didn't help some country club dude and his snot nosed kid were there looking at it as well. But, that isn't the basis for my nolonger wanting one of these cars....it's the fact that they don't have a spare tire, and require the run flat tires. You couldn't give me a car in this town with those tires on it. Hit a typical Chicago bump in the road during the test drive, and I thought the thing was going to explode from the shock. Want to known how it felt? Take a tree branch, and smack yourself in the face with it, it was that jarring. No way am I going to drive that around here, and no way would I put my wife and kids in a car that didn't have a spare tire. Not that I'd expect my wife to change the tire, as she would just hit the SOS button for help, but the fact that the guy who came to help her, would have to bring a tire with him to do it. No way, Jose'.

Glad I did this today, finally put the 3 series wagons to rest for me. The more I do this, the more I'm realizing why I've choosen three Toyota made products in the past already. Just wish they made a sporty midsized wagon, and this whole process would be over and done with.... the search continues...

[smooth1]

Guess I'm not foolish enough to buy the car. Those folks are fishing for idiots, and you'd have to be one to pay what they're asking, $24,990. THEN, came an additional $3,200 for taxes ($1,500) and $1,700 for all the other junk. First time i've actually seen "rust proofing" before in real life, at $395, and some kind of "special" conditioner applied to the dash and seats, at $395. My offer of the keys to the lexus and a check for $19,500, turned into their reply of $28k. Didn't help some country club dude and his snot nosed kid were there looking at it as well. But, that isn't the basis for my nolonger wanting one of these cars....it's the fact that they don't have a spare tire, and require the run flat tires. You couldn't give me a car in this town with those tires on it. Hit a typical Chicago bump in the road during the test drive, and I thought the thing was going to explode from the shock. Want to known how it felt? Take a tree branch, and smack yourself in the face with it, it was that jarring. No way am I going to drive that around here, and no way would I put my wife and kids in a car that didn't have a spare tire. Not that I'd expect my wife to change the tire, as she would just hit the SOS button for help, but the fact that the guy who came to help her, would have to bring a tire with him to do it. No way, Jose'.

Glad I did this today, finally put the 3 series wagons to rest for me. The more I do this, the more I'm realizing why I've choosen three Toyota made products in the past already. Just wish they made a sporty midsized wagon, and this whole process would be over and done with.... the search continues...

So can you put together a list of "No" cars? So far I see:

Volvo S ???

BMW 3 series

Volkswagen

And then put together a list of remaining potentials so we can see what else is still out there?

[RX in NC]

I'll say it again - just keep driving what you already have while you do your jail sentence in Chicago. Once you relocate to a better climate, that's the time to swap vehicles as well....

[nc211]

So far, I've driven three that didn't give me the warm & fuzzies...07' Volvo V70 FWD with the normal 2.4 engine, 07' VW Passat AWD with the V6, loaded with everything, and 06' BMW 325 AWD with all options. Volvo is a no because of power, feel, and an questionable corporate ownership these days. They're being sold to a Chinese company, and they're going to stop selling wagons in the states next year. That worries me when it comes to the certified warranty. Same reason why I won't look at a Saab wagon. VW is 75% no because of the comments I've read on Edmunds, Consumer Reports, and others - it sounds like they fall apart after 50k miles or so. The 06+ BMW 3series wagon is 100% no due to the lack of a spare tire being replaced with the run-flats instead (too expensive to replace, and ride like crap).

Given that my wife absolutely refuses to consider an Outback "which would fit this bill perfectly", I'm starting too look at SUV's instead. Just not a lot of wagons out there that aren't either way too expensive, or barebones. Next car to look at is the Mazda CX9 GT. Capable of seating 7 when needed for around town trips (nice feature when the grandparents are in town), has excellent reviews from all the usual sources, and what I really miss about our former little Mazda 3, the triptronic transmission. Plus, there's quite a few of them out there, so negotiations are certain to be better. This shift in my focus to sportier SUV's opens up a lot more options, like the Acura RDX, Infiniti FX35, Lexus RX, Nissan Morono, and the BMW X3 (not sure if they're runflats too, inlaws have one, love it).

I must admit that I am attracted to the 05-06 MB E320 wagons too, but know better than to take on one without a bullet-proof warranty in place. But, they sure are beautiful to look at and have all the room we would need. But not a wise move, at all. I've read where MB wouldn't even sell an owner an extended warranty when their normal warranty was about to expire. That doesn't say much good about the car.

RX, if I keep the GS, it won't be because I need to, it'll be because I can't find a replacement that is within our budget that suits our needs. We're a growing family, and even though the 4runner is a true winner, I don't like the fact that it's the only vehicle we've got that can get the job done now. We want a back-up option if needed. Plus, we're moving our office this fall. Now, I'm only a few miles from home, but that will change. I don't want my wife to be stuck at home with two kids on snowy days when I need the 4x4 ability to get to work. That's just not acceptable. The GS SUCKS in bad weather. It's even scary in the rain! And, I'm not spending the money for "snow tires" for a car that I don't want. I'm fortunate to be able to have this option. I'm going to take it. Plus, many are saying the elections this November are running a real risk of being the trigger to the hyper-inflation that we all know is coming. I'd rather lock in a more suitable vehicle at today's rates for the next couple of years, then be in this position when we move back east in a 10% interest rate environment...which is clearly just a matter of time before it happens. 10% on a home is one thing (a painful thing), but I'm ok with that, because when rates fall again, that's when you realize the most appreciation in value (hence 1998-2006). 10% on a car is wasteful beyond the basic need. Rates are so low these days, that it doesn't make much sense to pay cash for a car. Bet we won't be able to say that in 12 months or so. Plus, I have no debt, other than the two cars. Combine the two balances, still doesn't even come close to the price of a new basic car today. After I do this, then I'll have two cars for about the price of one new one.

[smooth1]

To bad about the Subaru, that was my surprise runner up. But I have to tell you that I love my MB ML 350. AWD, and a spunky V6 made our trip to the cabin in North Carolina a smooth breeze. So the list would be like: ( I would like to state for the record that these are not my reccomendations , nor do I endorse any of the following, I am just assembling a list in which to gather the available selections.)

Mazda CX

Mitsubishi ????

Nissan/ Infinity ?????? Pathfinder,

Honda/ Acura ?????? Pilot

Toyota/ Lexus ?????? Highlander/4Runner

Ford Flex? Freestyle?

Chrysler Pacifica?

Chevy ????

Land Rover ?????

Dodge ?????

Jeep ??????

Mercedes Benz ????

Subaru ??????

Porsche ????

What else is there?

[RX in NC]

It ALWAYS makes the best financial sense to pay cash for a car. That's all I've done for the past 20 years or more. Make your best deal on a 3-year-old well-cared-for vehicle coming off a lease and pay cash. Wins hands down every time....

If your wife won't consider an Outback (mine wouldn't either when I sold her 2000 RX300, although it was exactly what she needed for hauling our dogs), then get another 4Runner. You're happy with yours, it fits the bill for winter driving, and you have two similar vehicles to maintain. There were times in the 1990s when we had two Jeeps and it always worked out perfectly for us. Two 4Runners would do the job for you....

[SW03ES]

The runflats are becoming a problem on a lot of cars. The new GS has runflats and I don't think it has a spare either. I know the SC has runflats and no spare.

Thats how I have always felt when I have driven a BMW or Mercedes. I like the look and the idea, but when I drive them they always fall short of the Lexus to me. I even drove an S550...and just didn't care for it. I'd honestly rather have an LS460. I'd really like to have one...I admire them on the road...then I get behind the wheel and its just kinda...ugh. I don't feel that way in an Acura or Infiniti...the Lexus is nicer but they I don't dislike them. I guess German just isn't for me.

I'd look at the Infiniti FX. Infinitis have God-awful resale value which is a huge plus when buying one used. I really like the FX.

[nc211]

If your wife won't consider an Outback (mine wouldn't either when I sold her 2000 RX300, although it was exactly what she needed for hauling our dogs), then get another 4Runner. You're happy with yours, it fits the bill for winter driving, and you have two similar vehicles to maintain. There were times in the 1990s when we had two Jeeps and it always worked out perfectly for us. Two 4Runners would do the job for you....

You know, RX, that part about another 4runner isn't all too bad. I've done quite a bit of research lately, started looking at the BMW X5, had a few conversations with some mechanics, and although I really LOVE the look of BMW, I think I'm going to wait for my first Bimmer to be a 3rd car. The 5 series wagons are just a bit out of my comfort zone on price vs mileage, and have written off the 3 series wagons. I think, sadly, i'm out of the station wagon segment, which has me heading over to the SUV side.

The Mazda CX9 would be the ideal choice, but (a) a GT model with AWD that isn't either silver or black, for a fair price, is tough to find. They're a bit of a stretch for my comfort zone. The Acura MDX is too expensive (in it's current form, older designs..yawn), the RDX is Rav4 too small. Basically....I'm down to the RX330, back to the Sequoia Limited, and possibly a GX470. Out of the three, two share the same components as the 4runner we've got - the bullet proof 4.7 V8 engine, and transmission/drivetrain components, which I really like. However, the Sequoia is BIG! I'm talkin Big Foot in the woods kind of big. Not sure how the wife would feel about that. That's where the RX comes in (the egg, as my wife calls them). Easier to drive in the city, but can't haul 7 in a pinch. That's were the GX comes in - same bullet proof mechanicals as the 4runner, can haul 7 in a pinch....but worried about that whole ride-height suspension aspect. Damn sure don't want to deal with a faulty air set-up....So...long story short - I think it's between the RX330 and the 03-04 Sequoia Limited. Don't want two 4runners...too boring. If these don't do the trick, then either the Mrs. is just going to have to get over her Subaru thing, or learn to love a minivan, which would either be the Sienna (1st choice) or Nissan (2nd choice).

The Infiniti FX is too difficult to access the back seats. We looked at one, and wacked my head on a door seal. Neat concept of a car, but not "car seat" friendly, at all.

Watch....i'll probably end up buying an 06' MB R350 instead, and end up bitchin' about it for the next two years..... They are quite nice, and would fit the "space" bill perfectly...see? I'm already talking myself into trouble...good thing I don't drink like I use to, other wise there'd be two baby seats strapped to the back of a MB SL500!

[nc211]

Did a little research last night on these MB R500's, which I must admit really intrique me. However, after reviewing the cost differences of a 3rd party extended warranty between a MB / BMW / Toyota "Lexus" product...no way Jose'! The MB R500's have taken massive depreciation hits, which put them within our reach. They fit the bill on space and seating. Edmunds and the like user reviews rave about them. But, they're very electronical - no way I would buy one without a warranty (which you have to buy yourself). Anyone care to guess how much a 5 year 100K limited warranty costs on a 2006 Mercedes Benz R500? $6,500!!! I knew it would be higher than normal, but that's insane!!! So, I checked www.parts.com to see how much normal wear and tear parts cost.... Struts - $1,100 EACH dealer pricing - $750 parts.com pricing. Guess how much a strut on a Land Cruiser cost...about $50 bucks.... 2004-5 BMW X5 was better, but still north of $4k. 2002 Lexus LX470? $1,500. Now...THAT says something right there!

So, with that, I'm 100% sticking close to home base - Toyota. Got three cars in mind - 2002 LX470 with 65k miles - 03ish Land Cruiser (if I could find one), or the Sequoia. I'm in the $20k range here. All share the same bullet proof 4.7 engine that i've come educated on via the 4runner. I have NO fear about buying above 60k miles on that engine, at all.

I'm REALLY intriqued by this LX i've found. But, don't know enough about that ride-height leveling system to gain comfort in it. I would have to assume it's the best in the business, due to the intended use of the vehicle - and the fact that it probably has never seen 10% of that intended use (who swamp-buggies a $75k vehicle?). Anyone have one of these vehicles that can chime in on this? I'm going to post the questoin in the LX section too.

[cduluk]

NC, have you considered the Toyota Highlander? I believe they come with the optional 3rd row (although i doubt it's very roomy). How often do you need a 7th passenger?

You could probably get a newer Highlander for the same price as an older Lexus. I think the Sequoia is a bit too big

[nc211]

cduluk, I checked out the Highlander, and they are quite nice "obvious association to the RX in some respects", but it just doesn't do anything for us. Too similiar to the 4runner.

I have located an 04 Land Cruiser, fully loaded with nav and rear seat entertainment, 76k miles, certified. Oddly enough, can you believe our 4runner, in the 3 years and 30k miles we've owned it, is worth just as much today as it was when we bought it!! It hasn't depreciated at all! One of the benefits of buying an SUV when everyone was trying to get rid of theirs. In fact, the same dealership is advertising the exact same 4runner (year, V8, options), but with 11k less miles than ours, for $20k! That's MORE than what we paid for ours 3 years ago with 53k miles on it. So....we're actually discussing trading the 4runner for the Land Cruiser, and not the GS. We've got a boat load of equity in the 4runner, which is a year newer than the Certified Land Cruiser, but has 8k more miles, and isn't nearly as "loaded". I'm still too spooked to bite on the LX over that air suspension stuff.

Negotiating now over the email on price, before wasting our time to drive over and look at it.

[LEXIRX330]

NC...wasn't the idea to get rid of the car to have another suv, or wagon?

You thinking of (2) new cars?

[nc211]

if the 4runner can become a bigger 4x4 that can seat 7 for the same price I'm in now, then that would open the door to something cheaper to replace the GS - like say - an 05' outback limited. The Land Cruiser would be the wife's, and the subbie would be mine, and with the subbie being awd, we wouldn't have to switch in bad weather. :)

[cduluk]

Yeah, Toyota's and Lexus' hold their value very well. You really can't go wrong!

[nc211]

Looked at a couple today:

Sequoia is out...way too big for our needs

Mazda CX9 is out...doesn't have a quality "feel" to it, not nearly as much room as in the photos.

Land Cruiser negotiations = failed, guys wanted way too much... gave me the run-around, of which I tossed it back at them. Guy told me he has $3,500 in repairs in it to make it "certified", said it needed a new water pump, that was leaking. I told him that anyone who knows anything about a Toyota V8 engine, knows that even a marginally mainted one should not need a new water pump at 70k miles, especially the 4.7 engine.

All roads seem to be pointing back to 4runner....which is bringing the GX470 back into the mix.. going to take a look at an 04 w/ 65k miles tomorrow... Asking price is right in the strike zone, so negotiations will be easier, assuming we like it.

[SW03ES]

I know a bunch of people with GX470s, its a popular vehicle in the real estate industry...everybody's been 100% thrilled. Its a really nice vehicle.

[smooth1]

Yeah, it's strange. You tend to think theres all these car companies out there to choose from, but when it's your own dollars, and you begin to focus on a specific type of vehicle that will appeal to you as well as fit all your needs and a few anticipated ones, suddenly the pool looks pretty small.

[nc211]

Looked at the GX470. It was nice, but dang it, it just doesn't give us that excited feeling of ownership that we've had before. It felt like a "need" vehicle more than a "want and need" vehicle. Same with the RX series too, which we looked at as well. But, and for those of you who've been around here long enough to remember the hell I went through before buying the Mazda, the following statement is big for us... We have decided on a specific vehicle to search for and buy, finally!!

2006 BMW X3

I just can't ignore that feeling I get when I see a BMW, sit in a BMW, and drive a BMW. Yeah, they're not perfect, not nearly as smooth and quiet. But, that itch just won't leave me alone, and my wife has it too for a BMW. Her folks bought an 06 X3 18 months ago, and love the heck out of it! I was ready to do the deal on an 06 here this past saturday - blue, fully loaded. I was ready, willing, able, and wanting to buy it....had it not been for the fact that it had been in FOUR accidents!! Friggin' used car salesmen - scam artists for sure. I was soooo bummed it had been wrecked. It was the car! Oh well....at least we know what to look for now.