Pushing The Envelope On The Nav Override Issue

[chickenslut]

After a long time of being fed up with being locked out of the Nav screen while driving I decided I wanted to be heard. Who did I want to be heard by? Lexus corporate.

I called the main number 3 separate times. I waited on hold for an "experience rep" for no less than 30 mins each time. The first two calls I hung up after the half hour because I was at work and had to pee. The third time I held out and waited a full 45 minutes to speak to someone. Here was my rationale: you car is advanced enough to know when someone sits down in the passenger seat to activate the seatbelt chime, yet these advances are not enough to unlock the nav system et all.

The first day of calls was met with nothing but "I'm really sorry you feel that way Mr. Chickenslut, I really am sorry" to which my response was "really? that's it? you're sorry? wow I suddenly feel better" and "so you are the only one I can talk to regarding this matter at Lexus at a whole? No one else in the entire Lexus corp wants to hear what their customers say?"

"We'll have one of our senior level reps contact and follow up with you"

Less than 24 hours later my phone rings.

We'll call her Ms. X is on the other end of the phone. Once again she spews the script about how it is "for your protection that we disable the navigation". I tell her that I should be able to decide what I would like to do with my car and not a corporation. She says that because she cannot guarantee that we would not be using the nav while driving. So I ask:

"But it is my choice to flip the radio station while driving, or answer my phone, or view my child in the backseat while driving, or plow into a parked car, but I cannot be allowed to use the nav system at all while the car is above 5 MPH? It is a car that I bought and I should do what I want. So what you are telling me is that my $3K nav system is less useful than a $100 Garmin unit?"

Silence falls and she sticks to the script. Repeating something about how it was a decision that was made laterally and that there was nothing she could do.

I explained to her that I was extremely disappointed in Lexus and Toyota as a company. I felt that though they did not listen their customers and they should they ever decide to allow us to take back control of our cars to call me and I will spend even more money on Navigation discs.

No my time spent did not bear any results. I didn't get any money back. Did I feel satisfied after the calls? No. Am I happy about ruining 2 peoples day? No. I wanted to be heard. And I guess the best way I can be heard from here on out is speaking with my wallet.

[The G Man]

You are wasting your breath, many poeple have tried in the pass. Now with all these safety recalls Toyota is facing, you can pretty much forget about Toyota removing the interlock and giving your money back. I pretty much gave up on Toyota and Lexus Navi, I will never buy one again. Pulling over on a highway to enter a destination when my wife is sitting next to me and can do so safely is an insult to my intellagence. It seems to me now a day, all Toyota can say is they are sorry for this and they are sorry for that, but its all lip service.

[SW03ES]

Seriously...wasting your breath is right. They've been producing this navigation system with the lockout for 12 years...they're not going to stop now.

I still very rarely feel irritated about the lockout. I simply enter my destinations before I leave...and very rarely have the need to type in destinations when driving. I use the system 2-3 times a day every day too...I think its a situation where a little pre-planning can fix the issue.

Lexus isn't the only company that has such a lockout either...

[Messerchmidt]

get a garmin and stick it on your windshield

[The G Man]

get a garmin and stick it on your windshield

Thats is what we do, we have a Germin we use find restaurants, gas station, alternative routes or what ever else when we go on long trips. The Lexus Navi is too restrictive, one should not have to pull over just to use the Navi.

[chickenslut]

We will probably get a garmin or something like that and set it up.

Truth be told I was actually a little surprised as you would figure that their scripted answers would be pretty solid. They were weak and full of holes and when pressed they just defaulted to 'i'm really sorry'. Just wish I hadn't *BLEEP*ed away my money on the system and just pocketed it. Lesson learned.

[The G Man]

We will probably get a garmin or something like that and set it up.

Truth be told I was actually a little surprised as you would figure that their scripted answers would be pretty solid. They were weak and full of holes and when pressed they just defaulted to 'i'm really sorry'. Just wish I hadn't *BLEEP*ed away my money on the system and just pocketed it. Lesson learned.

or you can also get a Vasitech navi lockout over ride install like many other Lexus owners, personally, I dont like to rip apart my dash board unless I have to.

[chickenslut]

We will probably get a garmin or something like that and set it up.

Truth be told I was actually a little surprised as you would figure that their scripted answers would be pretty solid. They were weak and full of holes and when pressed they just defaulted to 'i'm really sorry'. Just wish I hadn't *BLEEP*ed away my money on the system and just pocketed it. Lesson learned.

or you can also get a Vasitech navi lockout over ride install like many other Lexus owners, personally, I dont like to rip apart my dash board unless I have to.

See I would like to. I even started a thread about which one to get. While I don't want to tear apart my dash either I would since I would also be gaining some sort of iPod integration as well. So to me that would be worth it.

Any recommendations as to which one to get? We (wife and I) have iPod Touches and I'm looking at getting an iPhone. Don't want/need video on the screen. Thoughts?

Was thinking SL2i-UP. At a penny under $200 it's worth a shot IMO.

[The G Man]

We will probably get a garmin or something like that and set it up.

Truth be told I was actually a little surprised as you would figure that their scripted answers would be pretty solid. They were weak and full of holes and when pressed they just defaulted to 'i'm really sorry'. Just wish I hadn't *BLEEP*ed away my money on the system and just pocketed it. Lesson learned.

or you can also get a Vasitech navi lockout over ride install like many other Lexus owners, personally, I dont like to rip apart my dash board unless I have to.

See I would like to. I even started a thread about which one to get. While I don't want to tear apart my dash either I would since I would also be gaining some sort of iPod integration as well. So to me that would be worth it.

Any recommendations as to which one to get? We (wife and I) have iPod Touches and I'm looking at getting an iPhone. Don't want/need video on the screen. Thoughts?

Was thinking SL2i-UP. At a penny under $200 it's worth a shot IMO.

Sorry, I dont know much about the bypass module since I didnt want to take apart my dash and possibly voiding some warranty.

[RXinATL]

FYI- the Lockpick 3 Basic which allows using the nav while moving goes in the rear compartment behind the dvd reader. No need to take the dash apart.

[RhoXS]

This is a very sore point with both my wife and myself. We have had high end Garmin units for almost six years now and the $2,400 Lexus unit is really no match to the Garmin products. That is exactly why we keep a Garmin 2720 on the dash above the frequently useless factory unit.

The issue, in my opinion, is more about Toyota having lost touch with their customers than the actual usability problems with the Nav system. Shortly after we purchased our 2009 RX350 last year, Lexus sent us an extensive survey concerning our satisfaction with our new car. I spent a fair amount of time giving them some reasonable and constructive feedback, both positive and negative and not just limited to the navigation system. I submitted the survey but never received any acknowledgment from Lexus/Toyota. Even an automated reply would have been welcome. I sincerely doubt anyone ever read my comments. On two occasions over the past year I called Lexus and had an almost identical conversation as was related in the first post of this thread. In other words, I now have the firm belief that Toyota no longer cares what it customers think. Unfortunately this appears to have become a deep seated cultural issue in the Toyota organization and will be very difficult to change.

Toyota has made an outstanding product for many years and, in spite of the recent issues, still does. However, their well deserved success is now becoming a big liability to them. To use an old WWII Japanese expression, describing valid concerns a few of their senior military leaders had in the early days of the war, they now seem to suffer from "Victory Disease". There incredible success has made them so confident, they no longer want to hear from their customers. They feel they know better than their customers what the customer wants. In my opinion, Toyota needs to get back in touch with their old culture or the competitive automotive market will become a much more level field. They still make a good product and most likely will continue to do so but I think their market dominance is going to seriously suffer. My wife and I are one customer that will no longer automatically consider a Toyota/Lexus product to the exclusion of most everything else.

[The G Man]

RhoXs, very well said. Toyota have gotten too big for its own good. Toyota President Akio Toyoda admitted to Congress that the desire for growth led to Toyota’s current woes.

As the company got bigger and bigger, spending and labor cost got out of control and there are too many lawyers in charge of preventing law suits and too many bean counters trying to cut cost. I remember the good old days when I call up Toyota and I could talk to an operator that is not reading off a script. Now a days, I might as well talk to a recording, the operators at Toyota and Lexus are nothing more than robots. I too wrote a whole paragraph in the survey about locking out the passenger from using the Navi while on long trips. It probably got filed in the round file cabinet like yours.

I have owned Toyotas and Lexus for over 15 years. In my opinion Toyota and Lexus' quality have been in decline for 6 or 7 years, too many bean counters and too many lawyers running the company instead of engineers and designers.

[rebb]

I agree with other posts. Lexus and Toyota now lead the pack in corporate arrogance. I wrote several letters to Lexus GM Mark Templin, with copies to my dealer. No one had the courtesy to respond. Wrote one to Mr. Toyoda in Japan. So I did what others did...bought a marvelous Garmin and I leave it stuck to my windshield on every service visit to Lexus. When they ask, it gives me a chance to rant. When I peer into a new RX in the showroom and the sales guy comes over, I tell him I won't buy another Lexus for the rest of my life. Won't do any good but it does dispel some of the frustration. Toyota/Lexus should make "how the might fail" required reading for every member of senior management. Don't know how a corporation can ignore 1500 frustrated owners on the Lexus override website.

[SmilingBoognish]

Once again she spews the script about how it is "for your protection that we disable the navigation".

Truth be told, it is for "Toyota's protection from frivolous US law suits".

Like others, I find my Garmin portable unit to be far superior to the built in Nav in my wife's Lexus. She likes it, though, and a happy wife makes a happy life!

[chickenslut]

What I found interesting was when I said something to the effect of "but if I want to change the radio station you "allow" me to do that, but I can't work with the GPS?"

Her response was something like "sir that's not the same thing". To which I replied matter-of-factly "actually it's the exact same thing. Both have screens, both require user input, both give audible feedback, both require you to search for what you are looking for, but the difference is that you decided to give me access to one and not the other."

And again she stuck to the script. Yes, I know that call center people are basically just supposed to apologize and nothing more, but that's it. Apologies don't resolve problems. I thoroughly agree that they do this to save themselves from frivolous lawsuits. But when you think about it Garmin, TomTom, et all have made a business model out of this an have kept themselves out of litigation.

Well I would have not minded if the 'Spoken Phrase' system worked even remotely well. When I asked it to call my wife (used her name) it thought I wanted Higher Education Institutions to display on my POI maps overlay. I tried again and used my name instead to which it wouldn't even recognize. I have a very simple last name. It is the same word that is listed next to anything that has an 'ON/OFF' switch.

Just frustration, well that and my Tape Deck which I used every single fr!ckin day.........woot to the cassette tape.

[The G Man]

Truth be told, it is for "Toyota's protection from frivolous US law suits".

I been saying it all along. If Toyota made thier cars so it can not accelarate, they would not have all these sudden accelaration law suits :)

[SmilingBoognish]

Truth be told, it is for "Toyota's protection from frivolous US law suits".

I been saying it all along. If Toyota made thier cars so it can not accelarate, they would not have all these sudden accelaration law suits :)

WORD!

Although it might cause some marketing issues if they sold cars that didn't accelerate. ^_^ B)

[The G Man]

WORD!

Although it might cause some marketing issues if they sold cars that didn't accelerate. ^_^ B)

Cars that doesnt accelerate, cars that cannot stop accelerating, picky, picky :) :)