In Pursuit Of Perfection, Dealerships Obviously Have No Clue

[Jim Nazium]

I have a 2006 RX 400h with 38,000 miles and runs like clockwork.... has never missed a beat....

I took my vehicle in to a Canadian Lexus Dealership (Lexus Spinelli Pte. Claire) to have an oil change and perform the recommended 35,000 mile Factory Required Maintenance.

I asked one question, can you replace at my cost, or see if the following item is covered under warranty... the rear strut mountings for the rear hatch, have rust on them. Before the rust for the base of the strut mount gets rustier, and leaves rust colored streaks along the back of the rear bumper, I wanted to have the base of the mounts either repainted or replaced.

The dealer informed me that the following struts were covered under a factory recall from Lexus and would be replaced under warranty. But, I would have to book another appointment during the xmas to new year period (I brought my vehicle in just before Xmas, the 2nd week of December). I said fine, call me back and tell me when to bring the vehicle back in (I had my Father do me a favour and take my wife's truck to the dealership for service for me. The dealer was nice enough to give my father a loaner).

I had the vehicle back in for the service to replace the rear struts. My father picked up the vehicle the next day and brought it back to me, where it sat in the garage. The next day, I took the vehicle in to work, and immediately noticed that the steering and handling of the vehicle were completely off. The steer was wobbley and loose, and the vehicle had an incredible amount of dead play at center. I looked at the repair work performed and to my surprise noticed that the entire rack and pinion was replaced under the Manufacturers recall. Updon further inspection, I noticed that the mechanic who worked on the car also left grease prints all over the rear hatch assembly, while he was working on the strut replacement.

I called that morning the dealership to explain to them that I never had a problem with my steering, and why I wasn't informed about the recall for the Power Steering. They insisted I was told about the work, but apologized none the less and said if I could bring in the vehicle back to address the steering looseness and grease marks.

My father once again brought the vehicle in to address the problem, and this time the dealership called me at work to explain the situation. They said the looseness of the steering wheel was due to the fact that the vehicle dash on my vehicle was taken apart by another Lexus Dealership and that they put the dash together all wrong (I did have a recall for the Dash to eliminate a squeeking problem that was performed at the time the vehicle was purchased 30,000 miles ago). As well, the service advisor informed me that the mechanic who is working on my car noticed that the alignment was off and that a wheel alignment was in order. Now, since they performed a wheel alignment on my vehicle when they replaced the rack and pinion 4 days ago, they questioned me if I hit a curb or went off the road and threw the wheel alignment out of whack Unbeleivable! I put them in there place and said to them that for over 30,000 miles I never had a problem with my steering and that the dash and/or steering was never loose before by the work performed by the previous Lexus dealership. Also, that I didn't hit anything or go off road throwing my wheel alignment out of whack. The advisor said she would not charge me for the second wheel alignment. Whatever, I thought to myself.

I got the vehicle back that night, and to my horror, I found once again, that the mechanic who was working on my card, left grease prints over the headliner under the vehicles A pillar. As well, the A pillar bracket was forced and put on crooked, as well, the rubber liner running around the drivers A pillar door was installed incorectly, causing the gasket to pinch the molding.

I called the dealer back to inform them of there "customer call back response voicemail" and explained to them what they had done. The next day the Dealer called back and apologized and asked if I could bring them the vehicle right away. I declined and said I was busy and did not have the time to trouble someone once again and have the car back at there dealership for the 4th time in as many weeks. They insisted, and said they would have someone come over to my house and pick up my vehicle and leave me a courtesy car in it's place (completely useless to me, since I am at work and park inside a secure parking lot that is not easy for someone with an unregistered vehicle to access). They were persistant and wanted to make good, so I agreed that if they wanted to do this, they could the following week (the day, being today 10/01/19).

So today (10/01/19) I drove my vehicle over to a friends house and asked him for a favour, if he could receive the valet driver and give him my car keys. Later on in the day, I get a call back from the dealer asking to call them back immediately and whether I could call my insurance company or have them call my insurance company for me. I called the dealer back in the middle of the afternoon, to find out that the valet driver, while driving the vehicle, a rock hit the middle of the windshield and blistered the front windshield to the point that it required replacement. Accidents happen, but this was complete and utter stupidity on the part of the valet driver. The roads are crystal clear, and the time of day he picked up the vehicle was during non rush hour. But the most frustrating part from all this, is the fact that the dealership had the gall to ask that I call my insurance company and claim the front window. Unbelievable.

I called back the dealership and let them have it. I told them to own up to there complete and utter incompetance. I said to them, that if I took there loaner car, and wrapped it around a tree, would they be calling there insurance to claim the repair?

I informed Lexus Canada of this situation, only to be blown off and be told that I had to deal with the dealership service manager (who happens to be on vacation, oh how nice for him).

I do not think that at the very least, they owe up to the repair, and replace the windshield with a Factory Lexus Window and cover the cost on there part 100%.

Lexuses are great, but their dealerships are lacking (in Canada anyways). Makes you think, they are real wannabe's. I always got outstanding, over and beyond service with my BMW's (and still do for that matter).

Stay tuned...

[lemon]

Wow...never had any problems with Lexus of Oakville, here in Ontario. It was in for the steering recall and that was done no problem - the recall includes a front end alignment - maybe they forgot to do it the first time with your car? My inverter was also replaced under the hybrid warranty due to leaking and no trouble there either.

In your case, the rock to the windshield did add insult to injury and IMO the dealer should fix this at their cost and not involve your insurance company, however, blaming the valet doesn't make any sense. If a rock flies up off the roadway from another car, I don't see how it could be the valet's fault. It's not like could see it coming and swerve to avoid it.

All your other issues are just poor workmanship and carelessness on the part of the dealer employee.

BTW, do you have any info on the recall for the hatch struts. Mine are rusted as well. If it's a TSB I'm out of luck as my warranty is done - if it's a recall, then I can have them replaced.

[cduluk]

I'm not surprised. <_< The techs at Lexus are no smarter nor more talented than the techs over at, let's say Kia...

And as for the windshield, make sure they replace it with OEM, as the aftermarket windshields are junk. Your insurance co. shouldn't get involved at all. I'm sure Lexus has their own insurance if they need it. I'm sure they'll just make a claim with their own people, the same type of claim they'd make if they accidentally scratched a dashboard while performing a service or what not...

Bottom line, no one will ever care for your vehicle as much as you do. As long as Lexus rectifies the problem to your satisfaction it's OK, mistakes happen.

[Jim Nazium]

day two...

Hmm... gr8t the service manager is on vacation til the 2nd of February. So I followed Lexus Canada's recommendation to call back the service manager and leave a voice message.

The colleague of the original service advisor, called me back to request what it is I wanted to do. These people are unreal. They want me to respond today ASAP, because they want to get the car off the lot.

I have requested that Lexus Canada investigate the matter (they said, it would take 3 - 5 working days), there is some serious coaching needed on the part of the dealers service advisors.

OH, the 2nd service advisor did reveal to me that the dealerships deductible is $10,000 dollars.

to be continued...

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

(shaking head)

[chmod]

My regrets, sounds like a series of nightmares.

Having said that, dealers are a crap-shoot. I am anxious for our 2007 400H to be out of warranty so we can utilize a competent independent shop. The local Stealer simply overcharges everything. Having the car washed gratis is not sufficient to cover the costs they charge.

Best of luck.

chmod

[pauljcl]

day two...

Hmm... gr8t the service manager is on vacation til the 2nd of February. So I followed Lexus Canada's recommendation to call back the service manager and leave a voice message.

The colleague of the original service advisor, called me back to request what it is I wanted to do. These people are unreal. They want me to respond today ASAP, because they want to get the car off the lot.

I have requested that Lexus Canada investigate the matter (they said, it would take 3 - 5 working days), there is some serious coaching needed on the part of the dealers service advisors.

OH, the 2nd service advisor did reveal to me that the dealerships deductible is $10,000 dollars.

to be continued...

I feel (very much) for you. The combination of incompetence, arrogance, lack of ethics and outright prevarication is astounding. I just hate dealers.... Just to peg a story: my BMW dealker, under warranty, replace an 'auto-dimming' rearview mirror because the fluid had leaked. This was in 2007; my car being a 2005. Lo and behold, the new rearview mirror again leaked, 2 1/2 years later (nearly to the day, same time period as the old one). BMW dealer says I need a new mirror, $600+, + shop charges + labor.... I find out that the leaky mirrors were discontinued by the manufacturer (Magna Donnelly) end of 2004, that the first new mirror was a discontinued part that they KNEW was going to be defective. ... I found a service that takes of everything ($100!) and I got a new mirror with gel (instead of liquid) and no future problems... So-- I cross my fingers for you - Good luck!

[RX400h]

This just goes to show us that there are bad dealerships of every brand vehicle. Fortunately, most larger cities have more than one, making your chances of finding a good one, much better. Our dealership has been great.

[RXREY]

I agree, I have NEVER,ever been happier with a dealership as I have been with my Lexus dealer. For the four years of having my car I have had nothing but great service and attention. I get questions answered, emails returned, I have always gotten a loaner car. They ask me if I want the ES or RX,so I get a choice...that's how I found out how much nicer ours is compared to the gas only RX. I am hoping to get to drive the 450rx soon while my "Princess" gets her service work done. Sorry about the bad experience that you got, but I feel lucky. I have never had a luxury vehicle before. Rey

[Jim Nazium]

Well, it's finally over.

I will never feel the same about my RX 400h, ever again.

I was really disappointed with Lexus Canada's response when I asked them to intervene. In the end, I got one well trained corporate "manager" call me back with "uh huh, uh-hum, I see, uh huh..." responses for there inquiry over what was wrong. Followed up by "They are franchises, and even though we try and wish they act in the way we would prefer too, they are after all the one you will have to deal with". The politically correct way of saying, Lehman Brothers (aka, go F yourself).

Nice! Thank you Lexus Canada for your Interest and Concern over this issue. I know that I have been chosen to selectively take part in a survey, everytime I call 1 800 Lexus Canada (at the end of my call), now how about listening to me when I call and actually have something to say.

My sole request on the part of Lexus Canada, was to no longer deal with the service representatives from the dealership, but to have someone from the dealers management team call me back. And NOT even that, was a gimmee. Instead, I had the same service advisor call me back. I did ask him why Lexus of Canada, did not request someone from the dealerships management team call me, he replied with, that he (and his colleague, the other service advisor) is an assistant manager. You can always tell people who screw people, they ALWAYS have an answer for everything.

In the end, the dealership paid for the window (a Lexus OEM windshield), and I had the dealer call in an outside firm who specializes in windshield replacements, to install the windshield at my expense. Hey, it cost me money, but I had no other choice. I had zero confidence in the workmanship and execution performed by the staff over at Lexus Pointe Claire. More importantly, they showed absolutely ZERO responsibility for there poor service performance. Everything that happened was laid out to accidents happen, and that accidents could happen to anybody. What irked me the most was the complete lack of empathy, or acknowlegement on there part for there sloppyness, poor service work, and carelessness.

Lexus Canada, if your listening... I cannot seriously consider another Lexus product. You have no idea that in this day and age, it takes more than a great product. The product is only as good as the warranty and service that is backed by the manufacturer (that being you, Toyota Motor Company). And in this case, Lexus Canada has told me what they have to say on the matter by there actions.

My next SUV will be from Germany, because there aftersales service IS Perfection.

Cheers,

Jim

P.S. My M5 has been a tank, and my previous 850 though somewhat italian finicky was always serviced over and beyond what the manufacturer would stipulate as warranty work by the dealer.

[lu1de]

You just got a bad dealership. And that's not Lexus's fault. Maybe you'd be happy if you started using an other dealership instead of the crappy one?

[RX400h]

I'm really sorry that this happened to you, Jim and I understand your bitterness. Believe it or not, my wife once had a lemon Honda Accord. For years, I swore off ever buying a Honda. "They're junk!" I'd tell everyone. Eventually I realized that no one else was having the same problems we did. In fact, year after year, car & driver and Consumer Reports rated the Accord as the best or right near the top. My son has a 97 Civic that is a model of efficiency and reliability. It puts all German cars in its class to shame.

Another true story..... I worked with a girl who always drove MB vehicles and ALWAYS had issues - no engine or transmission problems, but many irritating electronic ones. When it was time for her to buy a new vehicle, I suggested the new RX400h. Instead, she opted for the ML320 SUV that averaged 16 MPG on premium only. As gas priced rose above $4.00/gal, I asked her why she would continue to spend $60/week on gas expenditures. She told me she was always treated like royalty at her local MB dealership and that was worth more than the thousands of dollars and countless trips to the dealership over the years. ....very odd, to say the least.

Car and Driver recently completed a long term test of the BMW M3. The transmission was making strange noises and like most German vehicles, other issues were beginning to surface.

The bottom line in my book is that you can always switch dealerships, but switching vehicles because of quality issues is a far worse scenario in almost every way. The general saying among car enthusiests is that if you buy German, make certain you own the car ONLY while it is covered under a comprehensive warranty.

[Jim Nazium]

This is my third dealership since owning my vehicle...

The first dealer, gave me good service, except for... They would not, at any request, offer me a loaner vehicle. (Lexus Gabriel St. Laurent). My vehicle was always serviced with them, and I never questioned there type of service nor questioned there fees. On a major service interval, along with brakes and pads to be replaced (I was told it was going to be roughly a G-Note in costs), I asked if they could for that ONE time, pass me a loaner. They said No (and stuck to there policy of not offering a courtesy car to American Lexus Vehicles). I decided, at that point, to take my business elsewhere and asked them to cancel my appointment scheduled in two weeks.

I called another dealer, closer to my house (Lexus Spinelli Lachine) and was asked by the Service Advisor, what was the telephone number associated with my vehicle. As soon as I finished giving the Service Advisor my phone number she responded with "We do not have a loaner vehicle vehicle for you Mr. Jim, because you have a US Lexus vehicle". I thought this reply was rather odd, that the first words out of the Service Advisors lips were to that effect. I questioned the Service Advisor's response, and was told that there was a note on my file. I was, as you can imagine, not impressed by the actions of the 1st Dealer (Lexus Gabriel). I none the less, booked the appointment to perform the >Basic Service, as outlined by the Lexus Owners Manual>, and have no other additional "Value Added" Work performed. When I picked up my vehicle, and was told it was ready; it was returned to me unwashed. I walked back into the service bay, after having paid the bill and questioned them about my unwashed vehicle, and was told by the Service Advisor that they do not wash US Lexus Vehicles. Real Professional, Don't You Think? How much of a savings or time did they really save by being anal with a Lexus Customer. What benefit, did they gain by acting in such a manner?

I lost it with Lexus Canada and explained to them my predicament. I told them, that I felt like a 2nd Class Lexus Owner, getting second rate service. I was not prepared to sell my 1 year old Lexus vehicle that I purchased while working in the USA, to simply satisfy Lexus Canada Dealers, and purchase another new "Canadian" Lexus RX 400h, so that I could get satisfactory service. The Lexus Representative, asked me, if I was willing to work with the same owner (Lexus Spinelli, have two dealers, Lachine and Pointe Claire) but at the other Dealer location (I am guessing, Lexus must of given the Spinelli Lexus Lachine an Ear worth), and that the Manager At Lexus Spinelli Pointe Claire, would assure me, that if I had work performed at there dealership, they would offer me a loaner (not for routine stuff, like just an oil change) and even wash my vehicle, like a Canadian Lexus vehicle / customer would receive. At the time, I agreed, and said that I would call them back, at the next service interval (roughly December).

As it turns out, that dealership (Lexus Spinelli Pointe Claire) has turned out to be a complete nightmare, as reading this post for yourself, you can see they are really sub par.

Cheers,

Jim

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Well, it's finally over.

I will never feel the same about my RX 400h, ever again.

. . . . . . . . . . snip

My next SUV will be from Germany, because there aftersales service IS Perfection.

Just because the service was junk, the car is bad? We used to have the E300. It was very nice, but BOTH the service joints we took it to were HORRIBLE. It didn't make the care horrible. We just took it to an independent shop after that, and because of that.

.

[Jim Nazium]

Well, it's finally over.

I will never feel the same about my RX 400h, ever again.

. . . . . . . . . . snip

My next SUV will be from Germany, because there aftersales service IS Perfection.

Just because the service was junk, the car is bad? We used to have the E300. It was very nice, but BOTH the service joints we took it to were HORRIBLE. It didn't make the care horrible. We just took it to an independent shop after that, and because of that.

.

I never said the car was bad. My very first sentence, from my very first post...

"I have a 2006 RX 400h with 38,000 miles and runs like clockwork.... has never missed a beat...."

Where do you get the impression that the car is junk?

I just happen to base, the "total" experience, between Product and After Sales Service in my purchasing decision. Having a great product with p!ss Poor Service, Agravations, and Total Disregard for customer satisfaction, just happens to be a major "value" point with me.

I was just not impressed by the fact that Lexus Canada, did not regard after sales service as an important attribute reflecting there product. I do not know of one single manufacturer, who would not want to be 100% sure that the customer (especially during the warranty period) is being serviced in accordance with the manufacturers standards, which hopefully, would approach something other than "well, they are franchises after all..." As if, like water off of a Ducks Back.

Cheers,

MadloR

[Jim Nazium]

Well, I thought to have put this behind me... but incredibly, the Dealer Service Advisor is up to more antics.

Back when the dealer, on the 4th attempt, had insisted to want to correct the issue with leaving my interior in disarray... they wanted to send me a valet vehicle.

The vehicle would be delivered after 10H30 (over 3hours after I would of left for work) to my house. I informed the Lexus Service Advisor, that this would be pointless, and to just send two drivers, one to pick up my vehicle and shuttle back to the dealer. They said that would not be good for them, since that would involve two employees. I said to them, that I would not be using there vehicle for two reasons (1) the vehicle needs to be registered where I park at work (for security, you cannot bring in any vehicle and park there for security reasons), and (2) I would be leaving for work at roughly 6H30am. Therefore, I had no use for the vehicle, but if it was easier on the dealer to come down with one employee instead of two, I said fine.

Well yesterday 10/01/28 I received in the mail a copy of the work order (which was already supplied to me when I had my vehicle picked up) along with a copy of a fuel receipt for $13.55, AND a transaction receipt on my credit card for $13.55 from the Dealer.

Unbelievable! The Service Advisor passed a transaction on my credit card without my authorisation for the courtesy vehicle for the fuel refill. The vehicle was driven by the valet driver from the dealer to my home (my neigherbour in fact) and back to the dealer. Total round trip miles 20. The vehicle was the hybrid IS. I cannot understand what possessed the Service Advisor. Was she on some kind of vendetta? Are we in highschool? Who has time for these games?

This is simply getting out of hand and childish. I do not know if I have the energy or time to further pursue this matter. It's incredible.

Cheers,

MadloR

[Gryphon]

Madlo, it is time for an old fashioned, post office letter to the CEO of Lexus of America. Emails are usually ignored but letters are read, re-read, and passed on for someone to handle.

Tom

[pauljcl]

Madlo, it is time for an old fashioned, post office letter to the CEO of Lexus of America. Emails are usually ignored but letters are read, re-read, and passed on for someone to handle.

Tom

"Certified"

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I never said the car was bad. My very first sentence, from my very first post...

"I have a 2006 RX 400h with 38,000 miles and runs like clockwork.... has never missed a beat...."

Where do you get the impression that the car is junk?

I just happen to base, the "total" experience, between Product and After Sales Service in my purchasing decision. Having a great product with p!ss Poor Service, Agravations, and Total Disregard for customer satisfaction, just happens to be a major "value" point with me.

I was just not impressed by the fact that Lexus Canada, did not regard after sales service as an important attribute reflecting there product. I do not know of one single manufacturer, who would not want to be 100% sure that the customer (especially during the warranty period) is being serviced in accordance with the manufacturers standards, which hopefully, would approach something other than "well, they are franchises after all..." As if, like water off of a Ducks Back.

Cheers,

MadloR

Oh that's right. Sorry. But after following the post, on & on & on & on & on . . . like many, I'd forgotten the first part way way way back up there at the top. Folks tend to remember the last stuff. In this case:

. . . . . . . . . . . snip

My next SUV will be from Germany, because there aftersales service IS Perfection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . snip

So talking about a new German made SUV (to me) made it sound like it would soon be time to dump the Lexus. Soon, because who knows how cars, or dealerships, or independent shop will be 1/2 decade from now. Yea, I guess you could have meant to keep the lexus ... but since (aparently) independent shops are not a good choice for what ever reason ... well, one can guess how I jumped to conclusions. But for many, if you (for example) love diamonds, you have diamonds. If the diamond cleaning shop is junky, many don't get rid of the diamonds and start buying rubys. You simply clean the diamonds some other place ... or some folks DIY. For many, it turns on hou much you love what you have. To each his/her own.

.

[Jim Nazium]

I plan on addressing this with Toyota Canada (cc the president) to see what kind of Company the world's biggest automaker has to say. If anybody can help me out, or make any kind of suggestions, in terms of my letter, it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

MadloR

P.S. Is it me, or is Toyota acting more and more like the good 'ol days of the General, when THEY were the largest automobile manufacturer in the world.

[SW03ES]

Unfortunately...car dealers are all independently owned...same is true of Lexus...same is true of BMW...Mercedes...on and on. The quality of the dealer has a large part to do with how the dealership is run.

So if you want to buy a make of vehicle that ensures you what you define as great dealer service...its not going to happen.

Unbelievable! The Service Advisor passed a transaction on my credit card without my authorisation for the courtesy vehicle for the fuel refill. The vehicle was driven by the valet driver from the dealer to my home (my neigherbour in fact) and back to the dealer. Total round trip miles 20. The vehicle was the hybrid IS. I cannot understand what possessed the Service Advisor. Was she on some kind of vendetta? Are we in highschool? Who has time for these games?

I actually don't see the issue here at all. You paid $13 for the service of having the dealership drive to your house, pick up your car, and leave a car for your use. Thats a deal IMHO. Whether you needed the car or not it makes absolutely no sense for them to commit two employees to picking up your vehicle.

The service advisor is simply an employee of the dealer...she is simply following the policies of the dealer. They charge for gas on their loaners...my dealer does too. If I don't want to pay for their gas...I drop my own car off and don't get a loaner.

[Gryphon]

I don't get the US/Canadian distinction, but more than that, the idiocy of irritating a paying customer by cheaping out on a quick exterior wash.

Tom

[SW03ES]

I agree with this 100%...but all dealers are different...

I personally would be relieved they DIDN'T wash it...but thats me.