Big Hurt

B & B Suspension Accumulators

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ANYONE considering an aftermarket solution to their AHC system, please feel free to contact me regarding my experiences, trials, and resolutions.....

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I have change my suspension system I went to shocks and springs and the insurance company says there is no problem changing the system out with regualar shocks springs since toyaota make the sequia land cruiser are on the same frames

I went with STRUT MASTER REPLACEMENT SYSTEM WITH NO PROBLEMS HANDLES GREAT ALSO MORE MORE WORRYING ABOUT THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM NO MORE TOTAL COST OF KIT IS $525

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I have had 3 sets of these B&B accumulators fail. DO NOT BUY B&B aftermarket parts!!!!!!

"Please contact me directly before posting inaccurate information on such forums. B and B stands behind the products we sell. Yes, there HAVE been isolated failures, and we promptly ship , at OUR expense,new replacements WITHOUT requiring deposits or defective parts returned first (which is what every other parts supplier requires). We also provide unlimited telephone consultation to customers and their mechanics".

The statement above is pretty much exactly the opposite of what the warranty information they have changed on their site now says!

Listen to Symbolicmotors!!! Keith is very rude and insulting. His warranty method is !Removed! you off then hanging up on you. He assumes someone has tampered with the accumulators instead of giving the customer the benefit of the doubt. Don't do business with this guy!!

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This is the first negative feedback I've heard about B&B, Keith, and the aftermarket accums... I have a 99 with 148,000, have never changed the fluid (unless the dealer did it as part of the 90,000 ml) and my first set of globes....

I've made the decision to try B&B and purchase 4 accumulators..... after Lexus wanted $750 for oxygen sensors which I did myself for $100 PLUS 45 minutes of my time, including set-up and clean-up.... I am going "Do it yourself..."

I will report success and/or failure...

Keith must be have allot of bad product. He is very rude when you call about warranty issues. I finally ask him why he was being so rude and I could only assume this is the way he handles his customer warranty issues. He hung up on me. I bought (4) accumulators and a pump. My mechanic went through all his test and methods to install and got his blessing on all. They worked 4-6 months and failed. Don't do business with this guy!!!

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Hi all, I hope this will be helpful to you guys, To start I'm a Toyota/Lexus certify tech. I have recently bought a set of front accumulators from b&b suspension and my worst fear came true, Keith will tell you everything you want to hear before you buy the product and sure enough after you start having problem with his accumulators, he then will tell how there's no way how his accumulator will fail and on and on with his BS. I have installed dozens of factory accumulator that was ether damage due to contamination or simply failure due to age, I never had a come back with my work when I use the factory part, of-course I always flush the system out and put new fluid. BOTTOM LINE DONT BUY AFTERMARKET. I kick myself in the !Removed! I'm a dealer tech I should have known better.

Why didn't he check the fluid in the system for contamination before installing new parts? Contamination 'hides in struts and main accumulator if they are not repeatedly flushed and drained. IF contamination level is minor, simple drain and refill MAY be adequate. There ARE MANY cases of multiple repeat failures with OEM accumulators, and a FEW with B&B units. Forensic analysis shows contamination as probable cause for all multiple unit failures and many single unit failures. Simple drain, refill will not remove 60%+ of the contaminating substance.

B & B is awful to deal with. I replace the Pump, all four accumulators and all four shocks. Got Keith's blessing on the fluid test. The accumulators failed. Sent him videos and he agreed with the mechanic that they had failed. Told my mechanic he had to talk to me before he did anything. I called him and he was very rude. He kept interrupting me telling me someone must have tampered with the accumulators. When I tried to tell him only one mechanic had worked on the car and he installed it with all his test and pictures of fluid, etc. He finally hung up on me. How does this guy stay in business!!

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Do not buy from B&B !!! I bought (4) accumulators and a pump from Keith about (6) months ago. They were installed per his requirements, his fluid test, sent pictures and got his approval. All four units failed. Called on warranty and he was very rude and insulting. Kept telling me someone must have tampered with the accumulators, Fake fluid, on and on and on. The conversation went bad real quick and he hung up on me. So I'm out several thousand dollars and no warranty. How in the world does this guy stay in business!!

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B and B Suspension LLC offers the follow for consideration in response to the negative comments recently posted by a short handful (less than 5) former customers.

1) We normally ship using FedEx ground since it is economical, reliable, and prompt.. We WILL ship overnite (air express) if a customer requests and agrees to pay the extra cost--both for FedEx and B&B. The party claiming he paid for overnite and 'got 6 day' is untruthful. We have FedEx reports proving that untruth. We are awaiting payment from that person for the extreme compassionate discount to $200 total cost, including shipping, of a replacement set for confirmed contamination destroyed set. Try to do a good deed, be very compassionate and get stabbed in the back. We don't want people like this as customers.

2) Other parties have expressed dissatisfaction about early failures of our accumulators. These are the very few exceptions to the excellent performance and life of our parts. We were pulling our hair out trying to determine what was wrong--why were >90% of Customers not having any failures, and <5% were having Sets fail, and even replacement sets fail in a few days!!! or weeks. Why?

We finally proved in mid 2010 that contamination of the AHC was the cause for ALL multiple unit failures. There were a few single unit failures, less than 1% of parts sold. We stopped providing free replacements no questions asked shipped same day as we had been doing. We began requiring testing of the AHC fluid by the Water Reaction Test (included below) and found contamination in ALL the systems where more than a single accumulator of ours had failed. We suspect contamination may have caused the original OEM parts to fail. Service Techs do not usually test the AHC fluid for contamination. Even slight amounts of brake fluid and some windshield washer fluids will cause the accumulator diaphragms to fail quickly.

3) It seems today some people expect someone else to 'take care' of them and fix everything. Most Customers respond honorably when contamination of the AHC fluid is found and we advise them the failed parts are not covered under those conditions. We have been discounting replacements 50% from normal price to those unfortunate souls--which is a whole lot more than any other parts supplier would consider. However, a small number get angry, yell, and scream, and say we should have advised them to test the system for contamination, and somehow it was our fault, pay them for the labor, fluids and give them new parts free, or refund all their money or all of the above--OR they' will post negative comments, call the BBB, denigrate our products and even threaten personal harm. ' We take such blackmail attempts and harmful threats very seriously and have referred a few to the FBI for investigation and prosecution. Some of those inflammatory and false negative comments are posted on this forum. The posting parties may be under investigation right now--we do not get any feedback after we file the complaint with the FBI. The FBI will just show up with a federal warrant for their arrest.

B and B Suspension LLC promptly evaluates all warranty requests---if a single unit has failed---a free replacement is usually shipped at our cost that same day. We always want the failed part back quickly so we can learn what caused the failure. Reports of multiple unit failure will trigger a request the Customer test the AHC fluid and Email us the photos. Usually the contamination is immediately detected and clearly obvious to the Customer. We want the Customer to perform the testing so they can see the results themselves. Sometimes we hear " Contamination is not possible, I am the only one who......," and we have to remind the Customer--how it got contaminated is not really our concern--only the condition of the AHC fluid---contaminated or not, and how it got that way is not a question we can answer.

Water Reaction Test

B and B Suspension LLC

AHC FLUID WATER REACTION TEST

1) Purpose;

AHC fluid is very light colored highly refined low viscosity petroleum oil. Its appearance is (prior to new fluid from 2009 on) light greenish to light straw colored, clear and transparent. New fluid sold from 2009 on is dyed a light red/pink in color to distinguish it from other products. The similarity in appearance to brake fluid, many windshield cleaner concentrates, and un-dyed ethylene glycol antifreeze concentrate has contributed to many instances of service personnel using these similar appearing fluids to top-off or refill the AHC fluid reservoir. Unfortunately, the 'new color' is nearly identical to that of 'environmentally safe, non-toxic or RV water system antifreezepropylene glycol) All of these common contaminating fluids are very detrimental to the 'rubber' components in the AHC system.

The diaphragms separating AHC fluid from high pressure Argon in B&B Suspension accumulators are made from a special 'Nitrile' compound formulated to retain flexibility and strength from -40 to + 180 F. These parts flex with every tiny bump and road roughness and thus are repeatedly stressed where they bend. The common contaminants mentioned above are VERY DETRIMENTAL to the diaphragm because they dramatically increase cracking from repeated flexing. Even very low contamination levels, barely detectable by this rough test, can reduce accumulator life by 75% or more.

This 'Water Reaction Test' is designed to quickly show if any significant amount of brake fluid, methanol, propylene or ethylene glycol are present in the AHC fluid where an accumulator failed unexpectedly. Note this contamination may have caused failure of the original accumulators before the present owner acquired the vehicle. Many Owners have experienced repeated failures of Dealer installed OEM accumulators following known system contamination and accumulator failure, even though 'the system was flushed with new AHC FLUID EACH TIME.' Draining the reservoir and refilling with fresh AHC oil, then flushing to the accumulator bleed screws leaves nearly 75% of the old oil and contamination in the struts and main pressure accumulators.

2) Test Procedure;

Prepare 3 glass pint jars with lids by thoroughly washing with detergent and then thoroughly rinsing to ensure all detergent residue is removed . Ideally the final rinse should be with distilled water. From the right front accumulator bleeder, catch approximately 4 ounces of the old AHC oil into one of the clean glass pint jarsBEFORE ANY ACCUMULATORS OR FLUID ARE REMOVED. Then into another clean jar, catch a similar 4 ounce sample from the right rear bleeder. Add two (2) ounces of distilled water to each jar with the samples. Cap and then vigorously shake both jars for thirty (30) seconds to thoroughly mix the oil and water and then place the jars on a flat stable surface and allow them to sit and settle. After they have settled for 30 seconds, take color photographs of each bottle, then again after 2 minutes , and again after 5 minutes. Take the photos close enough to clearly show the interface between oil and water layers. EMAIL all 6 photos to kebowers47@gmail.com and kvnedbow@gmail.com. Note: Depending on the vigorousness of the shaking, a very fine emulsion may form which may take several hours to fully separate, even for the new fluid. However, even very fine emulsions of uncontaminated fluid and water will show thickening clear layers within 5 minutes.

Keith ... You are a real funny guy. How can people be arrested for telling the truth? How about good customer service and not hanging up on someone!

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More info on this globe supplier on ih8mud.com. ;)

Steve

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RE: B&B Suspension LLC aka http://activesuspensionsystems.com - Keith Bowers 4909 Jessamine Bellaire, TX 77401 - 832-651-7576 or 713-664-8276 - kebowers47@gmail.com (all info listed is from public posts by Mr Bowers)...

I am posting for myself and my customer who is so upset ,not with me but with the product and customer service I received from Keith Bowers ,Sales, R&D, Technical Support.of B& B suspension. that I had to let others who may be less qualified or knowledgeable what to expect for your investment..Please know what to expect and be cautious.Sometimes cheap is not good thought our effort was well intended.Our reputation on the internet speaks volumes for our customer care and service values- google .... Central Florida Auto Repair.

The customer,Deanna, came to my shop for a second opinion on her 03 lx470 with severe bounce that was diagnosed by dealer as a complete suspension rebuild;pump,accumulators,relay and flush at estimate cost over $5k. I am a state licensed repair shop with many credentials to my credit and a ASE master tech for 40 years and in business for 25 years;well qualified to diagnose and repair this vehicle.

​We diagnosed the issue to be just the accumulators and fluid flush and we always give customers options and explanations for the repair cost and expected results between these options. We quoted the Factory OE Lexus parts and B&B parts. I had called Keith prior to suggesting his parts to my customer so i could have first hand explanation and benefits of his accumulators over the OE Lexus parts. My business is legally responsible for the work and product we install on a car.Keith assured me these accumulators will function and last as long as the OE parts as long as proper procedures were followed.I installed the B&B Accumulators with no issues and system functions were operating as designed. Keith quotes...This exclusive design is believed to be more durable than the OEM unit.

​The vehicle came back in less than a year with suspension bounce and a upset customer.No work was done with system since it left our shop.We know because we install a safety seal on the reservoir cap to detect tampering.The front accumulators failed and the rear were weak..I called Kieth and he went off on the bad Lexus fluid and I need to do the tests,send pictures,ect.... before he would consider warranty replacement.We understand this from the DIY,but when a qualified shop is making claim,the issue should be given more credit as to the merits of claim.We have a customer who deserves an answer of when there car will be fixed.Nobody likes a come back.

We did the tests as requested and called Keith.The we get that he KNOWS the OE fluid is crap and that's what ruined the parts and yada yada on and on.I must say that Keith only hears his way and its hard to get a word in if you have the pleasure of talking to him.He instructed me to e mail him with the order number and he would try to look it up on his Yahoo account.I sent the requested e mail to him.

1 week and No reply and now I am in a position with my customer for a resolve .The vehicle is not safely derivable and I am legally bound to my contract of a 1 year parts and labor warranty as given by B&B suspension -http://activesuspensionsystems.com/ware.html

I called and left numerous messages and left e mails.

I am required by FL law ;but more importantly; I have a Moral Obligation to my customer and the hard earned money they spent and the Trust they put in me to correct the problem,even thought the product failed and B&B was neglecting their warranty terms.After 2 weeks with no contact from B&B; I had to go in search of the best deal i could find on the OE Lexus accumulators and installed them on the customers car.

I sent a email and called Keith to tell him what i had to do to keep my customer satisfied; and was expecting him to act accordingly as a responsible business and I would send the accumulators back for a credit or refund whatever he could consider !Removed! fair compensation to me given his actions. Keith called and e mailed that he had family issues,was out of town,blah blah....my business still runs when i am not there and to me was just some more excuses and diversions.

I have since read here the frustrations members/ owners have had and the loss of money and time. Keith does not liked to be questioned and likes to threaten legal actions based on his own terms...http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/topic/61043-b-b-suspension-accumulators/?p=427212]

Quote from Keith and B&B suspension web site...

We will personally take your phone calls and respond to your emails with pleasure because happy customers mean a happy business.
Sincerely,
Keith E. Bowers, Managing Director

I am sorry Keith, you had your chance to make it right with members here,and me as a business. I have supplied the facts and truths about my experience with B&B Suspension and I was more than patient as was my customer....I asked all the right questions but a warranty is only as good as its maker.

DO NOT USE B&B SUSPENSION

Buy from a brick and motor accountable business.

respectfully,

frank

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