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B & B Suspension Accumulators


Big Hurt

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I have purchased 3 sets of front accums for my 00 LK470 from B and B suspension and I am still getting the bounce after about 3 to 4 months of use. I have followed the directions from Keith(owner of B & B) and I get the same result. Are the factory accums that much more reliable and are the after markets just plain faulty? Has anyone experienced anything like this if they have bought aftermarket accums?

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  • 2 months later...

In two days (1/08/10) I will be having my local Lexus dealership replacing a set of front B & B accumulators after they were only installed four months ago, so they're covered by B & B's warranty but I still have to pay the $110 in labor. Unfortunately I also had a pair of them put into the rear two months ago so I'm hoping that SOME of these accumulators work for more than six months but at this point I don't feel well about it. The service manager at the Lexus dealership said the gentleman at B & B said 'the problem is with the seals and they're now fixed' so my fingers are crossed.

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This is the first negative feedback I've heard about B&B, Keith, and the aftermarket accums... I have a 99 with 148,000, have never changed the fluid (unless the dealer did it as part of the 90,000 ml) and my first set of globes....

I've made the decision to try B&B and purchase 4 accumulators..... after Lexus wanted $750 for oxygen sensors which I did myself for $100 PLUS 45 minutes of my time, including set-up and clean-up.... I am going "Do it yourself..."

I will report success and/or failure...

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I have purchased 3 sets of front accums for my 00 LK470 from B and B suspension and I am still getting the bounce after about 3 to 4 months of use. I have followed the directions from Keith(owner of B & B) and I get the same result. Are the factory accums that much more reliable and are the after markets just plain faulty? Has anyone experienced anything like this if they have bought aftermarket accums?

I am not able to locate you in my customer database, nor any customer, much less one in Hawaii having purchased 3 sets of front accumulators. :(

Please contact me directly before posting inaccurate information on such forums. B and B stands behind the products we sell. Yes, there HAVE been isolated failures, and we promptly ship , at OUR expense,new replacements WITHOUT requiring deposits or defective parts returned first (which is what every other parts supplier requires). We also provide unlimited telephone consultation to customers and their mechanics.

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Original Post:

AHC Suspension Accumulators - B & B Suspensions - Keith

I own a 1999 LX 470 with 148,000 miles and I'm changing my accumulators (all 4) for the first time. In the past few months, my ride has become spongey (truck seems to roll left and right around turns and slow curves) but very HARD when negotiating potholes, bumps, etc. It just doesn't feel like the ride I'm used to. I like in New York and think the climate has been kind to me... I heard harsh weather and intense heat really beats up the system.... so after a call to B & B Suspensions and an hour + conversation with Keith, I have decided to go after market....

I have purchased 3 (2.5 liter) containers of the Toyota / Lexus AHC Fluid (part AHC Suspension Fluid 2.5 liter container 08886-01805), which by the way, is now $41 and red in color like their antifreeze... (purchased at Bronx Toyota Parts - Boston Post Road, see Ray Figueroa) I called 5 dealerships locally and found pricing $41 to $57.... I believe I have enough to change the globes and flush the system.....

I have read a few forum threads on IH8MUD.COM... and feel I'm ready to take this on myself....

http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruiser...sion-fluid.html

Does anyone have ANY tips, tricks, watch out for's, suggestions before I start bleeding my first accumulator...

I've done a visual inspection (when I was doing my O2 sensors) and everything SEEMS to be where everyone says it is.... I read about taking a 36mm open ended wrench and grinding it down to 8 - 9 mm thick.....

UPDATE: FORGET THAT GRINDING THE $100 36mm WRENCH DOWN TO 8mm!!!!... get a FORD fan clutch wrench (they are a few bucks online... here's a link to Snap-on for you "Big Shots." Use Item Number: YA9325-1

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?it...oup_ID=1503)....

OR $16 on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Fan-Clutch-1984-and-NEWER-2-Piece-Wrench-Set_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d2468001aQQitemZ400042754074QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomo

tiveQ5fTools

It is 36mm and the PERFECT thickness.... my accumulators were original, ten years old and came off with just a little amount of pressure.... without the wrench this could be a lil knuckle buster..... I used a turkey baster to empty the reservior (with the truck in the LOW position), filled it to the brim with fresh, turned on the ignition and let the truck climb to the HIGH position, then started bleeding each accumulator (10 mm open end wrench).... did each one twice allowing the entire suspension to collapse (buy a length of clear tubing at Home Depot and attached to the end of the bleeder)... and continued until I had nice fresh fluid flowing.... This was possibly easier than changing the oil on this truck.... you DO NOT have to get under the truck... everything can be reached from outside the running boards and you don't have to drop the engine skid plate.... Keith said to allow AT THE MAX, 4 hours to complete.... I did everything in two hours, fifteen minutes with bull$#!ting and laughs.... I had one other guy helping me with the floor jack but this is definitely a one man job.... After completing the job, and spilling the oil out of my old accumulators... I think two were completely blown... the new ride was unbelieveably awesome.... firm yet smooth... and the truck lifts better, corners better and just feels fabulous.... I just hope I get the mileage out of these accumulators.... but as far as quality of ride, 4 STARS! I used 2 of the 3 2.5l containers of fluid.... it is relatively cheap compared to the system so let it flow when flushing out..... I plan on re-bleeding after ski season and a few trips to the Catskill Mountains of New York.... That should work out the kinks, and bubbles......

Thanks,

Rob

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  • 7 months later...

I have had 3 sets of these B&B accumulators fail. DO NOT BUY B&B aftermarket parts!!!!!!

"Please contact me directly before posting inaccurate information on such forums. B and B stands behind the products we sell. Yes, there HAVE been isolated failures, and we promptly ship , at OUR expense,new replacements WITHOUT requiring deposits or defective parts returned first (which is what every other parts supplier requires). We also provide unlimited telephone consultation to customers and their mechanics".

The statement above is pretty much exactly the opposite of what the warranty information they have changed on their site now says!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all, I hope this will be helpful to you guys, To start I'm a Toyota/Lexus certify tech. I have recently bought a set of front accumulators from b&b suspension and my worst fear came true, Keith will tell you everything you want to hear before you buy the product and sure enough after you start having problem with his accumulators, he then will tell how there's no way how his accumulator will fail and on and on with his BS. I have installed dozens of factory accumulator that was ether damage due to contamination or simply failure due to age, I never had a come back with my work when I use the factory part, of-course I always flush the system out and put new fluid. BOTTOM LINE DONT BUY AFTERMARKET. I kick myself in the !Removed! I'm a dealer tech I should have known better.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all, I hope this will be helpful to you guys, To start I'm a Toyota/Lexus certify tech. I have recently bought a set of front accumulators from b&b suspension and my worst fear came true, Keith will tell you everything you want to hear before you buy the product and sure enough after you start having problem with his accumulators, he then will tell how there's no way how his accumulator will fail and on and on with his BS. I have installed dozens of factory accumulator that was ether damage due to contamination or simply failure due to age, I never had a come back with my work when I use the factory part, of-course I always flush the system out and put new fluid. BOTTOM LINE DONT BUY AFTERMARKET. I kick myself in the !Removed! I'm a dealer tech I should have known better.

It seems as if many of the 'replaced with OEM and they failed and Dealer won't warranty them' find B&B, do not advise us of the vehicle history of accumulator failure, install our parts in a contaminated system without thoroughly cleaning it out--AND then our parts fail too-----and somehow this is supposed to be OUR fault? That is why we now require contamination testing of then current operating fluid before we will sell parts, and also testing 1 month after our parts are installed to ensure the system really is clean. Attached is photo of the typical Water Reaction test result from such a customer

post-11351-0-34773300-1290360575_thumb.j

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I have had 3 sets of these B&B accumulators fail. DO NOT BUY B&B aftermarket parts!!!!!!

"Please contact me directly before posting inaccurate information on such forums. B and B stands behind the products we sell. Yes, there HAVE been isolated failures, and we promptly ship , at OUR expense,new replacements WITHOUT requiring deposits or defective parts returned first (which is what every other parts supplier requires). We also provide unlimited telephone consultation to customers and their mechanics".

The statement above is pretty much exactly the opposite of what the warranty information they have changed on their site now says!

Why did they fail? CONTAMINATION, severe contamination damage was discovered when the finally returned parts were examined. See attached photo

post-11351-0-86467100-1290360806_thumb.j

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Hi all, I hope this will be helpful to you guys, To start I'm a Toyota/Lexus certify tech. I have recently bought a set of front accumulators from b&b suspension and my worst fear came true, Keith will tell you everything you want to hear before you buy the product and sure enough after you start having problem with his accumulators, he then will tell how there's no way how his accumulator will fail and on and on with his BS. I have installed dozens of factory accumulator that was ether damage due to contamination or simply failure due to age, I never had a come back with my work when I use the factory part, of-course I always flush the system out and put new fluid. BOTTOM LINE DONT BUY AFTERMARKET. I kick myself in the !Removed! I'm a dealer tech I should have known better.

Why didn't he check the fluid in the system for contamination before installing new parts? Contamination 'hides in struts and main accumulator if they are not repeatedly flushed and drained. IF contamination level is minor, simple drain and refill MAY be adequate. There ARE MANY cases of multiple repeat failures with OEM accumulators, and a FEW with B&B units. Forensic analysis shows contamination as probable cause for all multiple unit failures and many single unit failures. Simple drain, refill will not remove 60%+ of the contaminating substance.

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I have purchased 3 sets of front accums for my 00 LK470 from B and B suspension and I am still getting the bounce after about 3 to 4 months of use. I have followed the directions from Keith(owner of B & B) and I get the same result. Are the factory accums that much more reliable and are the after markets just plain faulty? Has anyone experienced anything like this if they have bought aftermarket accums?

I am not able to identify this alleged purchaser. 'purchased 3 sets of' is outright falsehood. His AHC oil is probably seriously contaminated is he really has '4 month life'

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I have had 3 sets of these B&B accumulators fail. DO NOT BUY B&B aftermarket parts!!!!!!

"Please contact me directly before posting inaccurate information on such forums. B and B stands behind the products we sell. Yes, there HAVE been isolated failures, and we promptly ship , at OUR expense,new replacements WITHOUT requiring deposits or defective parts returned first (which is what every other parts supplier requires). We also provide unlimited telephone consultation to customers and their mechanics".

The statement above is pretty much exactly the opposite of what the warranty information they have changed on their site now says!

B and B DID change the site language some time long after the first post. We were getting blamed for contamination caused failures unfairly. Owners had repetitive failures of OEM sets, then put ours on without removing contamination---and surprise surprise--ours failed too! We now require deposits for multiple accumulator failure claims. Our parts do not fail in sets unless contamination is the cause. An occasional (+/- 1% or less) fail for no apparent reason so we have to say those had defective diaphragms and leaked. Multiple units of a set at same time---highly, highly unlikely unless contamination caused.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Big Hurt. Had the same problem with B & B Suspension. First set lasted 3 months, Keith said he had some problems with buying faulty O rings, and sent replacement pretty quick, no questions ask. Sent old ones back. 5 months later, same problem. So he sent another set. (Front) Installed in customer car. Keep in mind, Labor was free due to malfunction of parts, and not customer fault. This set lasted 3 months. Now Keith is upset, and tries to blame tainted fluid, and has changed his warranty. I had to go 250 miles and haul car back to our shop, as advised customer to not drive for safety sakes. Have reminded Keith that he had admitted that he had purchased faulty parts earlier, but he denied, but by reading this forum, has admitted before. ALSO, could not answer why never a problem with rear accululators if fluid was contaminated. Just very argumentitive. Finally was able to do "his test" and forwared photos of the fluid, as well of the leaking accumulators on the vehicle, and the can of $40 fluid purchased from Lexus. Sent to the over a week ago, and have had no response. Ask if they wanted me to remove Acc. and send to them, still no response.

I believe Keith does not take care of business, and his parts are now sub-par. On the first set he sent, we agreed and he charged me extra for overnight delivery. got them in 6 days. Advised him of this, said he would look into, never received credit. Also tried to say I had not returned last faulty Accumulators to him, therefore he would not honor warranty. Fortunately, saved receipts from P.O. to prove I did. I dont look for him to honor any type warranty any more, he hasn't mine. Will be glad to update should that change.

Well, been a couple weeks, and still no response from Keith or B & B. So today had to purchase parts from Lexus dealer. They were somewhat concerned about my problem, and said they had heard complaints about B & B Suspension before. They gave me a 20% discount on the parts to help ease my pain. Cost me about $476 ea. plus $30 for the fluid. I have learned my lesson for good. Please, BEWARE OF AFTERMARKET PARTS BY B & B SUSPENSION ! They are faulty, and They do not honor their warranty.They change their warranty to avoid replacement. They spend more time trying to find a reason not to replace, than to warranty the products they sell. I plan to contact Better Business Bureau in Houston area, as well as Texas Attorney General.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Big Hurt. Had the same problem with B & B Suspension. First set lasted 3 months, Keith said he had some problems with buying faulty O rings, and sent replacement pretty quick, no questions ask. Sent old ones back. 5 months later, same problem. So he sent another set. (Front) Installed in customer car. Keep in mind, Labor was free due to malfunction of parts, and not customer fault. This set lasted 3 months. Now Keith is upset, and tries to blame tainted fluid, and has changed his warranty. I had to go 250 miles and haul car back to our shop, as advised customer to not drive for safety sakes. Have reminded Keith that he had admitted that he had purchased faulty parts earlier, but he denied, but by reading this forum, has admitted before. ALSO, could not answer why never a problem with rear accululators if fluid was contaminated. Just very argumentitive. Finally was able to do "his test" and forwared photos of the fluid, as well of the leaking accumulators on the vehicle, and the can of $40 fluid purchased from Lexus. Sent to the over a week ago, and have had no response. Ask if they wanted me to remove Acc. and send to them, still no response.

I believe Keith does not take care of business, and his parts are now sub-par. On the first set he sent, we agreed and he charged me extra for overnight delivery. got them in 6 days. Advised him of this, said he would look into, never received credit. Also tried to say I had not returned last faulty Accumulators to him, therefore he would not honor warranty. Fortunately, saved receipts from P.O. to prove I did. I dont look for him to honor any type warranty any more, he hasn't mine. Will be glad to update should that change.

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I am having the same problem I went through 3 sets since april 28 2010 and this time he tried to blame my fluid that he said I can use then he said he did not say i could use it Did the water test said he seen worse once i sent the email to him staing he said i could use the amsoil fluid #5 then he switched saying it was the fliud is contaminated I have no idea I am so sick of spending $300 each time i have to change these over ( labor and 3 cans of fluid ) i would have been better off getting the oem's and having them installed every time i have them installed i make sure they flush the system atleast through 2 cans of total fliud and use the third to drive the vehicle with either way I have no choice but try another set and see what happens if this set fails after all this I will just switch to shocks springs as in the land cruiser or may just got that way now have to think it over but i am most likely going to springs and shocks and be done with this crap all together

has anyone else switched the set up let me know how it worked out for you thanks

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I am having the same problem I went through 3 sets since april 28 2010 and this time he tried to blame my fluid that he said I can use then he said he did not say i could use it Did the water test said he seen worse once i sent the email to him staing he said i could use the amsoil fluid #5 then he switched saying it was the fliud is contaminated I have no idea I am so sick of spending $300 each time i have to change these over ( labor and 3 cans of fluid ) i would have been better off getting the oem's and having them installed every time i have them installed i make sure they flush the system atleast through 2 cans of total fliud and use the third to drive the vehicle with either way I have no choice but try another set and see what happens if this set fails after all this I will just switch to shocks springs as in the land cruiser or may just got that way now have to think it over but i am most likely going to springs and shocks and be done with this crap all together

has anyone else switched the set up let me know how it worked out for you thanks

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post-52254-0-87525800-1293762249_thumb.j

post-52254-0-43334600-1293762352_thumb.j

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the above pictures are of my amsoil fliud which is only after 3 minutes the five minute pictures water on bottom was clear

I have since went to strutmasters and ordered a kit to replace this ahc system cost me $512 for the kit and $200 to install the complete kit and get the suspension light off truck rides better than it did new handles better than new hieght is as in nuetral position on the ahc system

why keep going through this problem i spent well over $10,000 on repairing this piece of crap system and these accumulators labor fluid in the past 3 years since april 28 2010 i went through 3 complete sets of B & B Suspension accumulators now he blames it on the fluid saying he never said I could use amsoil when u sent him the email when he said it is a pretty good alternative from lexus ahc fluid he blamed the fluid in the sytem saying it is badly contaminated i went to lexus with the jars of fliud they said the fluid is fine it will not cause the failure's

To me it is just not worth the problems worries or the time and money to keep repairing a system that just sucks period i have a $25 off coupon if anyone else wants to use strutmaster conversion Kit part number is lx470-4

if anyone needs any of the Lexus shocks mine are only 6 months old u will need new orings to seal the system properly i will also sell the pump and any other parts you may need for your i will swap out the switches if you need those for your if your are bad all my parts are in excellent working order let me know what you need i will pull it out of thetruck upon request my email is yamahawatercraft @aol.com my cell 727 455 1421 mine is a 1999 lx470 all parts from this system have been replaced in past 6 months to 5 years mark resoinable offers for what you need ken

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess i found my answer. Having spent this much already is not the way to go. I have had one set, already replaced under warranty from B*B and this next set only lasted 4 months. I performed the contamination tests as instructed and all modern oils have detergent in them. I tested the new AHC fluid and got the same results! Not to say aftermarket is bad, just that this is now a "pandemic" issue we are all facing. I agree to flush the system thoroughly. Not sure what anyone's track record is with this company, especially installed on a vehicle and still performing. Flush and go OEM! I have no choice but to say going with this aftermarket company is not advisable.

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B and B Suspension LLC offers the follow for consideration in response to the negative comments recently posted by a short handful (less than 5) former customers.

1) We normally ship using FedEx ground since it is economical, reliable, and prompt.. We WILL ship overnite (air express) if a customer requests and agrees to pay the extra cost--both for FedEx and B&B. The party claiming he paid for overnite and 'got 6 day' is untruthful. We have FedEx reports proving that untruth. We are awaiting payment from that person for the extreme compassionate discount to $200 total cost, including shipping, of a replacement set for confirmed contamination destroyed set. Try to do a good deed, be very compassionate and get stabbed in the back. We don't want people like this as customers.

2) Other parties have expressed dissatisfaction about early failures of our accumulators. These are the very few exceptions to the excellent performance and life of our parts. We were pulling our hair out trying to determine what was wrong--why were >90% of Customers not having any failures, and <5% were having Sets fail, and even replacement sets fail in a few days!!! or weeks. Why?

We finally proved in mid 2010 that contamination of the AHC was the cause for ALL multiple unit failures. There were a few single unit failures, less than 1% of parts sold. We stopped providing free replacements no questions asked shipped same day as we had been doing. We began requiring testing of the AHC fluid by the Water Reaction Test (included below) and found contamination in ALL the systems where more than a single accumulator of ours had failed. We suspect contamination may have caused the original OEM parts to fail. Service Techs do not usually test the AHC fluid for contamination. Even slight amounts of brake fluid and some windshield washer fluids will cause the accumulator diaphragms to fail quickly.

3) It seems today some people expect someone else to 'take care' of them and fix everything. Most Customers respond honorably when contamination of the AHC fluid is found and we advise them the failed parts are not covered under those conditions. We have been discounting replacements 50% from normal price to those unfortunate souls--which is a whole lot more than any other parts supplier would consider. However, a small number get angry, yell, and scream, and say we should have advised them to test the system for contamination, and somehow it was our fault, pay them for the labor, fluids and give them new parts free, or refund all their money or all of the above--OR they' will post negative comments, call the BBB, denigrate our products and even threaten personal harm. ' We take such blackmail attempts and harmful threats very seriously and have referred a few to the FBI for investigation and prosecution. Some of those inflammatory and false negative comments are posted on this forum. The posting parties may be under investigation right now--we do not get any feedback after we file the complaint with the FBI. The FBI will just show up with a federal warrant for their arrest.

B and B Suspension LLC promptly evaluates all warranty requests---if a single unit has failed---a free replacement is usually shipped at our cost that same day. We always want the failed part back quickly so we can learn what caused the failure. Reports of multiple unit failure will trigger a request the Customer test the AHC fluid and Email us the photos. Usually the contamination is immediately detected and clearly obvious to the Customer. We want the Customer to perform the testing so they can see the results themselves. Sometimes we hear " Contamination is not possible, I am the only one who......," and we have to remind the Customer--how it got contaminated is not really our concern--only the condition of the AHC fluid---contaminated or not, and how it got that way is not a question we can answer.

Water Reaction Test

B and B Suspension LLC

AHC FLUID WATER REACTION TEST

1) Purpose;

AHC fluid is very light colored highly refined low viscosity petroleum oil. Its appearance is (prior to new fluid from 2009 on) light greenish to light straw colored, clear and transparent. New fluid sold from 2009 on is dyed a light red/pink in color to distinguish it from other products. The similarity in appearance to brake fluid, many windshield cleaner concentrates, and un-dyed ethylene glycol antifreeze concentrate has contributed to many instances of service personnel using these similar appearing fluids to top-off or refill the AHC fluid reservoir. Unfortunately, the 'new color' is nearly identical to that of 'environmentally safe, non-toxic or RV water system antifreeze—propylene glycol) All of these common contaminating fluids are very detrimental to the 'rubber' components in the AHC system.

The diaphragms separating AHC fluid from high pressure Argon in B&B Suspension accumulators are made from a special 'Nitrile' compound formulated to retain flexibility and strength from -40 to + 180 F. These parts flex with every tiny bump and road roughness and thus are repeatedly stressed where they bend. The common contaminants mentioned above are VERY DETRIMENTAL to the diaphragm because they dramatically increase cracking from repeated flexing. Even very low contamination levels, barely detectable by this rough test, can reduce accumulator life by 75% or more.

This 'Water Reaction Test' is designed to quickly show if any significant amount of brake fluid, methanol, propylene or ethylene glycol are present in the AHC fluid where an accumulator failed unexpectedly. Note this contamination may have caused failure of the original accumulators before the present owner acquired the vehicle. Many Owners have experienced repeated failures of Dealer installed OEM accumulators following known system contamination and accumulator failure, even though 'the system was flushed with new AHC FLUID EACH TIME.' Draining the reservoir and refilling with fresh AHC oil, then flushing to the accumulator bleed screws leaves nearly 75% of the old oil and contamination in the struts and main pressure accumulators.

2) Test Procedure;

Prepare 3 glass pint jars with lids by thoroughly washing with detergent and then thoroughly rinsing to ensure all detergent residue is removed . Ideally the final rinse should be with distilled water. From the right front accumulator bleeder, catch approximately 4 ounces of the old AHC oil into one of the clean glass pint jars—BEFORE ANY ACCUMULATORS OR FLUID ARE REMOVED. Then into another clean jar, catch a similar 4 ounce sample from the right rear bleeder. Add two (2) ounces of distilled water to each jar with the samples. Cap and then vigorously shake both jars for thirty (30) seconds to thoroughly mix the oil and water and then place the jars on a flat stable surface and allow them to sit and settle. After they have settled for 30 seconds, take color photographs of each bottle, then again after 2 minutes , and again after 5 minutes. Take the photos close enough to clearly show the interface between oil and water layers. EMAIL all 6 photos to kebowers47@gmail.com and kvnedbow@gmail.com. Note: Depending on the vigorousness of the shaking, a very fine emulsion may form which may take several hours to fully separate, even for the new fluid. However, even very fine emulsions of uncontaminated fluid and water will show thickening clear layers within 5 minutes.

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We have previously provided digital copies of Water Reaction Test results for known genuine Toyota (Lexus) AHC fluid. The water layer remains crystal clear, the oil layer gets 'hazy' as expected with the water contact (it will clear in a few days or on heating), but there is no scum or 'cuff' at the interface between the two layers.

Hydraulic fluids and shock absorber fluids like AHC DO NOT contain any detergents. They contain anti-wear, anti-foam, anti-oxidant and viscosity index improver additives. The fluids do not cause deterioration of nitrile or 'Buna' synthetic rubbers, which will last more than 20 years without showing any deterioration and only minor swelling. There are several very similar products made by Several major oil companies which match or exceed the performance of AHC in industry standard qualification tests. We are developing a list of such product and plan to complete that this month.

We have been told verbally directly from 3 different Lexus Service Managers they got bad test results on AHC fluid from freshly opened cans. We asked for samples from those containers, but all 3 demurred. Other cans gave Good test results. We asked if all the test parameters were followed and were told Yes. We do not have any further information on this subject. We DO KNOW genuine, uncontaminated AHC fluid yields Good test results.

Using distilled water and CLEAN glass containers is important. Soap residue or dissolved solids in the water can cause a 'cuff' to form.Cleaning up a contaminated system need not be expensive and can be done in the driveway with some patience. We will post our suggested protocol,which has been well tested and proven 'in the field' by Customers.

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The photos sent to B and B clearly show significant contamination in the fluid. The water layer should be crystal clear and the oil layer transparent, but with some haze---AND should cleanly separate within 5 minutes at room temperature. We have been CONSISTENT in our communications. We have tested AMSOIL 5 and it does give GOOD test results when not contaminated. This owner did have a Seriously contaminated system, which we discovered after 3 complete sets of accumulators had failed ( 2nd and 3 sets furnished at NO COST) and Customer was advised it would likely take 2 or 3 flushing cycles following the protocol we suggest to get it clean. So, the results after 1 cycle are much better, but significantly short of Good. And it's Our fault????

I am having the same problem I went through 3 sets since april 28 2010 and this time he tried to blame my fluid that he said I can use then he said he did not say i could use it Did the water test said he seen worse once i sent the email to him staing he said i could use the amsoil fluid #5 then he switched saying it was the fliud is contaminated I have no idea I am so sick of spending $300 each time i have to change these over ( labor and 3 cans of fluid ) i would have been better off getting the oem's and having them installed every time i have them installed i make sure they flush the system atleast through 2 cans of total fliud and use the third to drive the vehicle with either way I have no choice but try another set and see what happens if this set fails after all this I will just switch to shocks springs as in the land cruiser or may just got that way now have to think it over but i am most likely going to springs and shocks and be done with this crap all together

has anyone else switched the set up let me know how it worked out for you thanks

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  • 3 months later...

As an example of the ill informed customers we have had and deal with-see below.

We have many GOOD water reaction tests from customers all over the world clear water layer--very slight haze in the oil layer. These are with both original straw colored oil, and the new 'pink' AHC fluid. GENUINE pink AHC fluid gives good-excellent Water Reaction Tests. SOME 'stuff' supposedly right out of new cans purchased from Dealer, and in at least 3 cases--reported to us by Lexus Service Managers--the new 'stuff' gave horrible results on the Water Reaction Test. The horrible results proves the 'stuff' IS NOT the correct AHC oil. AHC oil DOES NOT have any detergents. Hydraulic oils NEVER have detergents, never have, never will, not needed. Hydraulic oils MUST have good water separation characteristics so any water/condensation can be safely drained from the sump on the reservoir.

Multiple unit failures ARE ALL caused by contamination in the AHC system. We 'suspect' a bunch of 'bad' AHC fluid (counterfeit, msfilled, or?) got into and is still in the Dealer's supply system. Since we have started last August requiring contamination testing prior to installing our parts, --no more failures with new customers--none. Our world wide sales volume is growing quickly. The contamination problem is not limited to the US, but has appeared in the UK, Spain, Portugal. We STRONGLY recommend Owners promptly test their AHC oil for contamination. We also strongly advise similar quality testing of each new can of AHC fluid purchased BEFORE leaving the Dealership. If it fails, demand a refun d or replacement, and test the replacement too. We KNOW GENUINE stuff tests very good to excellent.

I guess i found my answer. Having spent this much already is not the way to go. I have had one set, already replaced under warranty from B*B and this next set only lasted 4 months. I performed the contamination tests as instructed and all modern oils have detergent in them. I tested the new AHC fluid and got the same results! Not to say aftermarket is bad, just that this is now a "pandemic" issue we are all facing. I agree to flush the system thoroughly. Not sure what anyone's track record is with this company, especially installed on a vehicle and still performing. Flush and go OEM! I have no choice but to say going with this aftermarket company is not advisable.

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B and B Suspension LLC has invested a lot of time and money to determine the cause for multiple and repeated accumulator failures on the LX-470 / LC-100 vehicles. We have furnished new parts at no cost to customers immediately when any failures were reported--not waiting for deposits or return of the failed parts when we were not certain of the cause. These same parts were and are performing quite well in other (non-AHC) services. We finally were convinced that contamination of the AHC fluid was the root cause of the failures. Our uncertainty was heightened when even customers who thoroughly flushed their systems had repeated failures. We had not suspected 'new, right out of the can' AHC fluid as the culprit in most cases. That was an error on our part, and it cost us dearly in net out of pocket expenses for replacement parts, shipping, and in some cases total refunds. Even so, reported failures were substantially less than 10% of customers in fiscal year 2010 (Aug 2009 to Aug 2010)

We now are convinced defective and/or contaminated AHC fluid was the direct cause of many of the in-service failures. The 'final nail in the coffin' is that since we began requiring Water Reaction Test photos with all reported failures, all the failures were in seriously contaminated systems. Also there has not been even a single failure since August 2010 in customer systems shown 'clean' by the Water Reaction Test. The evidence has confirmed contaminated AHC fluid as the cause of the rash of failures. Thus far, 75% through FY 2011, there has not been a single in-service accumulator failure in systems shown clean upon installation. We have not had a single in-service since we began requiring a clean Water Reaction Test before installation for warranty coverage.

We apologize to the Customer community for our overlooking possible contaminated or defective 'new AHC fluid' as the potential cause of these failures. The cause was not B and B parts; it was/is defective AHC oil or contamination introduced into the system reservoir by ???.

We ask forgiveness for our oversight and pardon for the failures--as they were not caused by us or our parts.

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There are several very similar products made by Several major oil companies which match or exceed the performance of AHC in industry standard qualification tests. We are developing a list of such product and plan to complete that this month.

Where is the list you promised over 3 months ago?

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  • 2 months later...

Alternative suspension fluids.

Safe Substitutes for Lexus / Toyota AHC Fluid

The Automatic Height Control suspension of the LX-470 and LC-100 series vehicles uses a very low viscosity hydraulic fluid (AHC fluid) that is a highly refined petroleum based shock absorber fluid. AHC fluid is expensive (+/- $45 for a 2.5 liter can or about $20 per quart.) Many owners have asked if there are suitable substitutes that are not as costly.

The cost of AHC fluid is trivial in the overall scope of owning and maintaining this class of luxury SUV. Generally speaking, Owners should use the lubricants and fluids specified and/or supplied by the Manufacturer. However it may be desirable to use an alternative fluid if it improves performance or durability. The process of identifying suitable substitutes is not clear-cut. There are many factors that should be considered. Among these are:

  • Viscosity—does the substitute result in similar ride characteristics
  • Temperature range is it suitable for both the low and high temperatures a vehicle may encounter—like from Los Angeles to Ski Country in 4 hours
  • Wear Protection—the tiny hydraulic pump will wear out quickly if the substitute fluid does not have excellent wear protection characteristics
  • Compatibility with the 'rubber' components like accumulators and hoses

Japanese manufacturers typically specify Japanese lubricants and fluids unless U.S. laws REQUIRE they also approve suitable fluids supplied by others and typically available to vehicle purchasers. AHC fluid is a Toyota only product that does not quite conform to Industry specifications. However, there ARE products manufactured by others that do more than satisfy the important characteristics and in some cases greatly exceed those of AHC fluid.
  • Castrol LT Hydraulic Oil Part No. 4019 ISO grade 15,
  • Mil-H-5606 – RED aircraft hydraulic oil—may give stiff ride in low temp
  • AMSOIL Shock-Therapy 5 use Shock-Therapy 10 if stiffer ride desired
  • John Deere Low Viscosity Hy-GARD (TY22035)
  • Pentosin hydraulic suspension fluid—the original petroleum based one. IF using the newer 'synthetic' Pentosin product, all the old fluid must be purged and flushed out because the 'new synthetic' fluids are not miscible with the great performing petroleum (oil) fluid with decades of great performance in the real world.

We STRONGLY suggest Owners test each new container of AHC fluid purchased to check Water Reaction Test and reject/return to Seller any that do not yield Excellent test results. We are very surprised at the widespread incidents of this defective/counterfeit AHC fluid in the Toyota supply system. We have proven repeatedly that real ,GENUINE pink AHC fluid does yield Excellent Water Reaction test results. A more rigorous water separation test is part of the Toyota specifications for the AHC fluid.

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