05silverls430 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I'm curious to find out what you guys are paying to replace front and rear brake pads and machine the rotors. My dealer is quoting me about $600 for the whole enchilada, which seems high to me, though I recall spending about $800 last time I did the brakes (about 20,000 miles ago). My car has just under 50,000 miles and is out of factory warranty, but still under CPO until next summer. I'm beginning to wonder if I should find a good independent mechanic for repair items like brakes. I love the "free" Lexus loaners and the customer service I get at the dealer, however I'm not I'm really willing (nor able) to pay that much now that the car is getting a bit older. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well for $60 you can get a set of pads and put them in yourself in about 30 minutes. Lexus calipers are terrific to work on. As for machining the rotors there are many opinions on that. I feel dealers push it as a revenue grab to pump up the bill. If the rotors aren't warped (no vibration when apply brakes) and not scored badly I'd just put in a new set of pads and live for another day. If the rotors are warped you can buy new ones pretty cheap. I got some from a foreign parts store for about $70 each (fronts). Also I doubt front and rear are both due for repair. Rear outlast the fronts by 2:1 ratio as they do less of the braking work. I'd be suspicious of them all needing replacement. Sounds like another revenue grab. Maybe pull a couple wheels and take a look yourself. Its easy to see how much pad is left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 What do you think? What do I think? I think you are "being taken for a ride". You had an $800 brake job at 30,000 miles and at 50,000 you are contemplating still another brake job? Do you drive your car extemely hard ... frequenty slam on your brakes at high speed and stop using maximum braking power? Are you a "street racer"? If you are an average non-abusive LS driver, your front brake pads should be lasting 60-70K miles and your rear brake pads should be lasting well over 100,000 miles. Yes, the brake pads on more recent Lexus cars don't last very long but the ones on your 05 LS are still of the old school long lasting type. The front brake pads on my 00 LS were replaced for the first time at 71,293 miles when the brake wear indicator light came on. Cost (labor and parts) of replacing with OEM pads and having the rotors machined was $214 at an indie shop that specializes in Lexus cars and owned/staffed by former Lexus dealer employees. LS430 brake pads are only slightly more expensive than the pads used on my car. My car is still on its original rear brake pads at 115,500 miles. They are getting fairly close to needing replacement and I am hoping they last until the 120,000 mile service during which I plan to have the rear brake pads replaced and the rear rotors machined. I assume that the price is going to be similar to the cost of replacing the front pads and having the front rotors machined -- probably less than $225. There is absolutely no reason to replace front and rear brake pads at the same time or until they need to be replaced. Brake jobs seem to be a "cash cow" at many dealers and repair shops -- I'd rather keep the cash and have a few cow steaks with the money I save by not having needless work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Hey Silver,You must be a racing maniac to need new a whole set of new pads after only 20K! :chairshot: Curious & 1990 have given you what you need to know. One slight departure from my perspective/experience. Imo machining a disc is never warranted. It only removes useable material and makes the disc thinner each time thus shortening it's lifespan. If the rotor is warped, it needs to be replaced period! If the rotor is scored, new pads will acommodate the groove in short order and everything will work as it should. If you have a high point, machining will even out the rotor for only the next 2-3K, then you'll have the imperfection back again. When necessary replace the disc, fluid, service the calipers, shims, sliding pins etc., and you will have the buttery smooth braking as per new. If you can diy (and I strongly suggest anyone with even the slightest aptitude to learn the howto) you will save a bundle and always have perfect braking. It's worth the time and little effort to learn about your braking system - the most important system on your car and also the most likely to be overbilled by just about any shop that thinks you know nothing about your car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05silverls430 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks guys! That helps a lot! No, I'm by no means a street racer. :) I baby my LS just like it deserves, though I do have a heavy foot. I'm not into full throttle take-offs or quick stops, though. I love and respect my car very much and like to think that I take very good care of it. That said, when I got my car back from the dealer yesterday (which is when they told me I'll need new pads at my next service), their explanation for the loud squeaking noise that I hear at low speeds, particularly when the brakes are cold, was that the rotors are "glazed". I also thought that I had felt some slight grinding when coming to a stop, however I was informed that this was just the glazing on the rotors, and no metal-to-metal contact was being made. I think the receipt said that I have 5mm of pad left, and the minimum recommended is 3mm. Is that accurate? I like to think that I can trust my service adviser, as I've been using him for almost 4 years and feel that I've always been well taken care of, though I've paid for it. I'm intrigued by the idea of servicing my own brakes, however that's just one more thing to add to the list of things that I don't have time to do. Know what I mean? Where would you suggest that I take the car to have it done (other than the dealer)? I found a good independent Mercedes mechanic on Yelp for my third car, which is an old S Class diesel. I guess I'm just nervous about taking the car to someone that I don't know. One thing I've learned to do on the Mercedes is order my own parts online and then just have the mechanic do the work. That has worked out well for me. Again, thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ... their explanation for the loud squeaking noise that I hear at low speeds, particularly when the brakes are cold, was that the rotors are "glazed". Has that guy been hanging out at a donut shop? What's the solution for "glazed" rotors -- is it to have the glazing licked off by endangered tree frogs? I'll bet that service would be expensive. I think the receipt said that I have 5mm of pad left, and the minimum recommended is 3mm. Is that accurate? Yes, it is recommended to replace the pads at 3mm under the "dealer profit enhancement program". Tell those people to "take a hike". I like to think that I can trust my service adviser, as I've been using him for almost 4 years and feel that I've always been well taken care of, though I've paid for it. I've known some very "nice" service advisers whose main interest is selling unneeded services. Where would you suggest that I take the car to have it done (other than the dealer)? Ask other Lexus owners where they have their cars serviced. I sometimes recommend the indie shop I use when I see other Lexus drivers at the gas pump ... which is sometimes funny because they are already using the same indie shop I use. Word of mouth iseems to be the best way to find a good indie repair shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I think the receipt said that I have 5mm of pad left, and the minimum recommended is 3mm. Is that accurate? Yes, it is recommended to replace the pads at 3mm under the "dealer profit enhancement program". Tell those people to "take a hike". There is one additional consideration on pad thickness. These newer cars have pad thickness sensors. Sensor is a bit of an exaggeration, it’s just a loop of wire encased in plastic along side the pad. When the pads wear this sensor gets exposed and then wears itself. Too much wear and the sensor wire loop is broken and the brake warning light goes on inside to let you know brakes need servicing. Well this sensor harness is about $60!!!!! So some dealers recommend you change pads before the sensor gets worn to avoid that. The result is changing the pads earlier than they need to be changed to save an ill designed sensor. Can you say planned obsolescence? Anyway either you live with changing pads a bit early to protect the sensor or maybe disconnect the sensor from the pad and secure it off to the side with a couple of wire ties. It would defeat the feature but allow you to wear pads further. Since I change my own brakes I just put pads in a little early to save the sensor. Pads are only about $50-60 (OEM) for the front so if I do this every 24-30 months that isn’t much of a maintenance burden. I change pads once they wear to be flush with the top of the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990LS400 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well this sensor harness is about $60!!!!! So some dealers recommend you change pads before the sensor gets worn to avoid that. The result is changing the pads earlier than they need to be changed to save an ill designed sensor. This is actually something my CPA wife and I have thought about. If your time is at all valuable, replacing pads early to avoid replacing a sensor is a false economy. It is an especially false economy if you drive almost any distance and spend almost any amount of time to take your car to a professional to change the pads and have the rotors turned as recommended by Lexus. The time you wait at a dealership or repair shop waiting for a repair to be completed is for many people lost income or lost productivity if they are salaried. Some people have said they can get by without have the rotors turned when they change brake pads. Good for them. I've tried that and am not willing to put up with the minor irritations including a sometimes very slightly pulsing brake pedal. I want my LS to drive and brake perfectly -- that's why I've spent so much money buying new or nearly new Lexus LS cars. IMO, the "3 mm rule" dealers like to push for changing brake pads is especially silly when it comes to the rear pads. For me, the difference between 3 mm and when the sensor on the rear pads trigger the warning message is, apparently on my current LS, about 45,000 miles of driving -- if my current LS gets to 120,000 miles on its original rear brake pads which I think it is going to do (currently it's at 115,500 miles and still on the original rear pads). I think this is a case where "one size doesn't fit all". Replacing the pads early works financially for some people but not for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05silverls430 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 You guys have given me lots to think about! And I'm certainly going to be a lot more wary of what I trust the dealer with, if I take it there at all (other than for a warranty issue). I'm going to do some research and find a good independent in my area. So does anyone know of a good indie in the Pasadena (CA) area??? ;) Thanks again for all of the input! You've probably saved me quite a bit of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainla Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I was quoted $720 at Lexus of Santa Monica for front and rear brakes @about 69k miles. I was like. Uh huh. Drove right over to my trusty independent, who pronounced my rear brake pads 'Fine' and the front brakes were 'a little low, not quite there yet but you could change them now to avoid having to pay for the sensors'. It cost $219 out the door. I probably could have done better but Max is a good guy and had good notices on the interwebs. I did end up changing the rears about 6000 miles later, similar cost. I hear the LS430 brakes are a little tougher to work on as there is not much clearance around the caliper and the rotor (both are enormous) but nothing too exotic. Someone posted a whole detailed description on how to do it in this forum somewhere and it's not hard if you have the right tools. It just takes a while. It definitely pays to shop around. For small things like this I feel like the dealers really put the screws to you. I have yet to walk out of a dealer for less than $100 (even for an oil change). That 'free' loaner car is not so free when you compare to the cost of independents; but the convenience of being able to drive and go is worth it for some people. You guys have given me lots to think about! And I'm certainly going to be a lot more wary of what I trust the dealer with, if I take it there at all (other than for a warranty issue). I'm going to do some research and find a good independent in my area. So does anyone know of a good indie in the Pasadena (CA) area??? ;) Thanks again for all of the input! You've probably saved me quite a bit of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwallican Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I had mine replaced at about 52k at the dealership. I was told the same thing about changing them before the brake light comes on to save the sensor. It cost $290 total. My indie charges $240 but I got the loaner at the dealership (which was verrrrry convenient). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 One thing I've learned to do on the Mercedes is order my own parts online and then just have the mechanic do the work. That has worked out well for me. If it's a repair that I can't do myself, then this is what I have done for many years as well with my Lexus vehicles (and the others). I order from www.parts.com and take them to an indi. Currently, I've got two motor mounts for my GS sitting in my garage that will be heading to the local shop on the corner next week to be installed. The pain of owning a Lexus, much as the MB you've got, isn't so much the retail cost of parts at the dealership, but the LABOR costs! Typically, there is about a 30%+ upcharge on buying parts directly from the dealership vs the online guys. Sometimes you can find a dealer willing to price match (including the shipping costs), but it's rare. You can also avoid the "Lexus" premium by buying some parts from the Toyota dealership. This is great for the fluids - specifically the transmission fluid. There is a large premium between the two. Also, many Toyota dealerships will do the routine service on your Lexus, for Toyota costs, not Lexus. Many use this option for oil changes and such. For example: It costs me $80 at the Toyota dealer here to have my V8 4runner serviced with Mobile 1 and tire rotation. The GX470, which is identical mechanically, costs well north of $110+ for the same service around here. No difference in oil, filter, or process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBdenny Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Lexus and Toyota factory brake pads are available from irontoad.com. For my 1990 LS, they cost $50. I have bought several things from these guys and they are fast and honest. Want to find a crook? you only need to look to your local Lexus dealer. When I had a rear caliper hang, I solicitied a quote as was told "at least $700" by the dealership. The guy said this with a straight face and wasn't even holding a gun. I bought the caliper at Bap-Geon for $90 and put it on in a half hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05silverls430 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Lexus and Toyota factory brake pads are available from irontoad.com. For my 1990 LS, they cost $50. I have bought several things from these guys and they are fast and honest. Want to find a crook? you only need to look to your local Lexus dealer. When I had a rear caliper hang, I solicitied a quote as was told "at least $700" by the dealership. The guy said this with a straight face and wasn't even holding a gun. I bought the caliper at Bap-Geon for $90 and put it on in a half hour. Good to know...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'll give you another example of what the "L" means in repair-ville... Called two indi shops today to get estimates on replacing my motor mounts this week "I have the mounts, just need the labor". One shop, that comes recommended by several folks in my area (European shop, but works on Lexus too), said simply and quickly "it's a 1 hour job for each, so 2 hours max..$200 bucks". The other, which I've seen on my way into the office in the morning said "can I get your name, address, and phone number and I'll call you back. I have to look up the hourly rate for your car. Each car has a different hourly rate." I hung up on him. Several errors in his approach. First: He was clearly hunting for marketing material. I can only imagine the telemarketing calls I'd get, and the junk mail. Second: He was clearly going to up-charge me on the hourly rate because I said "Lexus" instead of "Toyota". Third: You don't know what you charge per hour? Seriously? You're a 3 bay garage, and you don't know what you charge? No confidence in that shop that they know what they're doing..... $200 it is. It's about $50 more than I'd like, but $50 for "confirmation" I guess is the going rate these days.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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