Detailing fanatic Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Hello all,. I'm new to the forum,and have not yet purchased a Lexus. I have my sights set on an LS430, and am in the process of researching the pros/cons of such a vehicle. Specifically, I'm after an Ultra Luxury edition of the LS430. The year is not all that significant (unless there are years to avoid, of course!). My concern is that I don't want the LS430 to turn out like my friend's 2006 Infiniti M45, which is a spectacular car, but has proven to be quite expensive to own after the warranty expired. Consumer Reports has nothing but good things to say about the LS430 (all years), and for the most part, the consumer ratings on Edmunds.com are pretty stellar as well. My budget will probably be in the $32-$35k range. Given that, is it worth the effort to find a CPO car from Lexus? While it's not a deal-breaker, some warranty coverage would be ideal. Anyone have any good/bad experiences buying a higher-mileage LS430? Say, north of 75k? I've got a great local independent garage that specializes in Lexus, so I have someone I trust to look over a higher-mileage car. Any and all input/advice is welcome! Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Welcome! If you buy you'll find this forum invaluable. I have a '04 LS430 with modern luxury package I bought new 12/2003. Very nice car to drive and has aged well (even older LS400s styling still looks good to me). The cars are expensive to maintain but they're designed very well and are more reliable than most cars. So it’s a tradeoff, more expensive repairs but fewer of them. I'm at 77k miles and haven't spent over $3,000 since owning it (including regular maintenance, but not tires). A bonus is the gas mileage is very good for an large 8 cylinder heavy vehicle. I’m always amazed on highway trips how good the mileage is. I do feel some Lexus dealers do unnecessary maintenance and create “maintenance bundles” (30k, 60, 90k service) which pumps up some maintenance cost. In my mind the 90k is the only big maintenance milestone. The rest are what I would consider fairly routine. The transmission is sealed (no dipstick) in my car and fluids aren’t supposed to be touched until after 100k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will B. Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I disagree that the year isn't important - you should look for an '04 - '06 since they have the six speed transmission and the arguably better styling. Does the ultra luxury package have the air suspension? If so, you might want to avoid that - feedback on this forum indicates this is perhaps the only common component to fail on these vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detailing fanatic Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I disagree that the year isn't important - you should look for an '04 - '06 since they have the six speed transmission and the arguably better styling.Does the ultra luxury package have the air suspension? If so, you might want to avoid that - feedback on this forum indicates this is perhaps the only common component to fail on these vehicles. Actually, I should have said "the year isn't that important to me, unless of course there are years to avoid" :) Yes, I agree with you on the six-speed transmission -- I would think that would be an upgrade over the previous 5-speed. Unfortunately, the ultra luxury package does include the air suspension. I have heard of some issues with that -- I take it that it's not covered under warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detailing fanatic Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Welcome! If you buy you'll find this forum invaluable.I have a '04 LS430 with modern luxury package I bought new 12/2003. Very nice car to drive and has aged well (even older LS400s styling still looks good to me). The cars are expensive to maintain but they're designed very well and are more reliable than most cars. So it’s a tradeoff, more expensive repairs but fewer of them. I'm at 77k miles and haven't spent over $3,000 since owning it (including regular maintenance, but not tires). A bonus is the gas mileage is very good for an large 8 cylinder heavy vehicle. I’m always amazed on highway trips how good the mileage is. I do feel some Lexus dealers do unnecessary maintenance and create “maintenance bundles” (30k, 60, 90k service) which pumps up some maintenance cost. In my mind the 90k is the only big maintenance milestone. The rest are what I would consider fairly routine. The transmission is sealed (no dipstick) in my car and fluids aren’t supposed to be touched until after 100k miles. Wow -- $3k in nearly 6 years is pretty minimal. I have some friends that drive S-Class Benzes, and that seems like a typical year of expenses for them! I'm always concerned about the dealerships and their pricing games. Unfortunately, the Internet destroyed their profit margins on car sales, though not as bad as the domestic car makers. I've been looking at some 430's that are in the 40k-50k range in mileage, so I would still have a few years before I got to the 90k service. That's good information to know, though, if I find myself looking at cars with higher mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will B. Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Unfortunately, the ultra luxury package does include the air suspension. I have heard of some issues with that -- I take it that it's not covered under warranty? Naw, it will be covered. Still annoying if it breaks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detailing fanatic Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Unfortunately, the ultra luxury package does include the air suspension. I have heard of some issues with that -- I take it that it's not covered under warranty? Naw, it will be covered. Still annoying if it breaks though. I agree with that, though at least it will be covered. Ever hear of any issues with the navigation system? The M45 uses a similar "brains of the car" type nav system, and when it goes, it's bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwallican Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I had a 96 LS400 and got rid of it with 140k miles. Now I've got an 05 LS430 with 56k miles. Bought it last year and, trust me, it's worth it! These cars are rock solid and age gracefully. Maintenance is expensive compared to American made cars but who wants to drive an American made car?!? I'd say pull the trigger and get the latest year model you can for your price range. You won't be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett in AK Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Hello David, Welcome to the forum! I became hooked on owning a Lexus after riding in a friends LS 400. Once I decided on a 430 I did a little research and settled on the 2006. I missed a couple on EBay and then tried Cars.com where I found my 06 at a Lexus dealership and it was a CPO. It had just under 25k on the clock and was in overall immaculate condition other than a few rock chips. I paid about $35k for it plus the cost of having it shipped up here. Long story short, I love it and have no regret about "pulling the trigger". It's a garage queen for the winter months and only out on several trips during the summer months. We bought it as a "retirement vehicle" so will baby it until we move outside (lower forty eight) and it will then become our main vehicle. Take your time, don't get in a hurry. There are some great ones to choose from. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainla Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Hello David... I was in your shoes a little more than four (!!) years ago when I went shopping for a car to replace my indestructible 240D. The LS 430 was and remains a standout on the pre-owned car market. The performance, reliability and overall ownership experience are very tough to beat. Compared to a new Camry a 4-5 year old LS 430 is an unbelievable deal. These are, however very complicated, very sophisticated machines. Toyota has done a wonderful job at making them almost bullet proof (the engines and transmissions some might argue are almost grenade resistant) but they are machines with lots of moving parts. A LS 430 over the long haul will probably have more problems than an earlier LS 400 simply because there are more things to go wrong. Problems are still fairly rare; but when they do go they can be expensive. All that said; in four years of owning an LS430 with the UL package I've had few problems; the center high mounted stoplamp burnt out (about $7 at the dealer), 2 oxygen sensors died around 80k miles (about $300 each with parts and labor) and during the 90k service they replaced a leaking radiator and some front suspension bushings (substantially more than $7). The car had 66k when I bought it. I'm the first to admit that this car leads a charmed life; but most other LS 430 owners I know have reported similar experiences. No problems to speak of with any of the myriad electronic systems in the car--they all still work admirably. Aside from a couple minor cosmetic issues the car had when I bought it it looks almost brand new. Most people can't believe it's 9 years old. I was concerned with the Air suspension but I've been told by several Lexus techs that the air springs typically last between 100-150k miles; although it's not unheard of for them to be replaced earlier. So if you are looking at a higher mileage car it might not be such a good idea. Many people insist that the '04-06 models are better than the earlier ones; styling aside the only substantial mechanical difference is the 6 speed autobox (I admit I have yet to see a review that can demonstrate a substantial performance difference between it and the 5 speed). Bluetooth, Smartkey and the backup camera are nice features to have so that might tip the balance for you but I don't think you can go wrong with an older model as long as it has a complete maintenance history and the features you want. Later models also have more option packages, earlier models tend to either be loaded or more basic. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 The UL package is great, but I would really avoid the air suspension. Even if they last 100-150k miles...the standard struts will probably last 200k miles and to replace the air struts is a staggeringly expensive ordeal. Plus the UL package is pretty rare on '05 and '06 cars. The ride with the standard struts and the air struts is almost identical. You might want to look for a CL package...has everything from the UL but the rear seat controls and the air suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will B. Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Many people insist that the '04-06 models are better than the earlier ones; styling aside the only substantial mechanical difference is the 6 speed autobox (I admit I have yet to see a review that can demonstrate a substantial performance difference between it and the 5 speed). Bluetooth, Smartkey and the backup camera... Don't forget the swivel headlights, LED tail lights, and more interior airbags (I believe on the knees). In terms of performance, Lexus claims 0-60 times of 6.4 seconds for the 01-03 and 5.9 seconds for the 04-06. That's a pretty significant difference. I don't believe either of the numbers themselves (Consumer Reports clocked the 01 in 7.1 seconds), but I don't doubt the significant acceleration advantage the 04-06 would have based on the gear ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerFatty Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 In terms of performance, Lexus claims 0-60 times of 6.4 seconds for the 01-03 and 5.9 seconds for the 04-06. That's a pretty significant difference. I don't believe either of the numbers themselves (Consumer Reports clocked the 01 in 7.1 seconds), but I don't doubt the significant acceleration advantage the 04-06 would have based on the gear ratios. You know what I just found out? The LS isn't a performance car, go figure? so don't worry your self with the acceleration. :D You will be happy with what ever year you decide. Based on what I have heard, and only what I've heard, the air suspension tends to be a major PITA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will B. Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 You know what I just found out? The LS isn't a performance car, go figure? so don't worry your self with the acceleration. :D You will be happy with what ever year you decide. Based on what I have heard, and only what I've heard, the air suspension tends to be a major PITA It's also not a demolition derby racer (unless you are driving, of course), but I would still like it to have seat belts, air bags, and crumple zones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Chow Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I just got a '05 ultra w/ 21.5K mi on it a month ago...immaculate condition (owned by retirees in the desert). I was also concerned about the air suspension, so I bought the extended 6 yr CPO warranty. At any rate, if you have some mechanical skills, the air suspension can be replaced with the standard or sport suspension; all you basically need to buy are the coils, shocks, rear stabilizer bar w/ bushings, and a few minor other parts. You can get the parts for a discount on line for about the price of ONE air suspension shock! Someone already did this conversion (added the OEM sport suspension). This way, you get the creature comforts of the ultra (rear seat goodies) plus the benefits of the stock coil spring suspension. Ditto for the LX470...everyone is afraid of the hydraulic suspension, but one can install a stock toyota landcruiser suspension for $1200 in parts plus labor. The bottom line when looking for a used car is vehicle condition. Have your lexus dealer print out the service recs (they can download recs for any lexus given the VIN). You can then see what service was done, how often, and if anything was rejected, warranty claims, etc. My local dealer had 3 LS430's: a '06 modern luxury, '06 custom luxury, and '05 ultra luxury. Going in, I was pretty sure I'd bid on the '06 modern. I drove all three and closely inspected them. The '06 modern was kind of abused; dings on the wheels, PO was evidentally heavy on the pedal, refused some service, etc. The Custom was fine, but it had some gauche window tinting and terrible paint patch job on the front bumper (lots of rock dings, plus running paint, like it was a home-job). Last was the '05 ultra, one of the last '05's built and only 3 months older than the custom '06 and in like-new condition. Dealer said the price on all 3 would be about the same, so it was a no-brainer. So make sure you look at the car and extensively test drive it (~20mi if you can). The LS learns the owner's driving style, so if you're heavy on the throttle, it'll take more pressure on the accelerator to get the car to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 but one can install a stock toyota landcruiser suspension for $1200 in parts plus labor. LOL! Thats not a small amount of money my friend. $1200 in parts plus at least $1500 in labor...probably more. Its 12.8 hours in labor just to replace the lower control arms on my ES...at a standard shop rate of $85/hour (which is cheap) just that is $1,000! So its "only" probably $2,500-$3,000 to have a shop replace the air struts with the standard suspension... I'll skip it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'd skip the air ride. You are looking at big money to replace it when they start to leak, and as far as I can see, strutmasters hasn't made a conversion kit yet. Its 12.8 hours in labor just to replace the lower control arms on my ES...at a standard shop rate of $85/hour (which is cheap) just that is $1,000!13 hours? That sounds like a bit much. I don't know if there's something special about the ES's suspension design, but it doesn't come anywhere close to taking 6.5 hours per side to change the LCA on a LS400. On my LS, it's more like 2 hours/side (maybe 3 if you've never done it before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainla Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 It's also worth thinking about how long you plan to keep the car. A car you're gonna sell in 3 years vs. a car you'll keep for 10 years may tip the balance one way or the other on all those fancy features. Thing is most 01-03 cars are probably 90k+ by now so mileage will be a factor more than age. The 04-06 cars will be newer and lower mileage (and they have some nicer colors than the 01-03 cars did). I agree with Jim_Chow... pick the best cared for example you can find that fits your budget. The Custom and Modern Luxury cars are very nice, but they are hard to find on cars built before MY '04. I have yet to see anybody clock an '04+ LS faster than 6 seconds in the 0 to 60 run. The shift logic in the 6-speed may be better (the 5 speed sometimes takes its time trying to decide...do I really wanna downshift?) but I haven't seen anybody prove it really shaves half a second off the 0-60. The nav system is also newer, and there's other little bits and bobs that changed but it's essentially the same car (it's not like they made run on goat cheese or anything). Knee airbags? Really? Buckling your seat belt properly (and driving a 4000lb+ car) is gonna do more to save your knees than any airbag will. Again though you pick the features that are important to you. About the air springs I'm sure sooner or later someone will come up with a conversion kit for the LS430; the LS400 kit might even fit. I've seen people on CL do the whole conversion on an LS400 for about $1000, which is the list price of a single air strut. Oddly enough the air struts are pretty easy to swap out, the conversion to coil over strut is a little more complicated. I'd skip the air ride. You are looking at big money to replace it when they start to leak, and as far as I can see, strutmasters hasn't made a conversion kit yet.Its 12.8 hours in labor just to replace the lower control arms on my ES...at a standard shop rate of $85/hour (which is cheap) just that is $1,000!13 hours? That sounds like a bit much. I don't know if there's something special about the ES's suspension design, but it doesn't come anywhere close to taking 6.5 hours per side to change the LCA on a LS400. On my LS, it's more like 2 hours/side (maybe 3 if you've never done it before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 13 hours? That sounds like a bit much. I don't know if there's something special about the ES's suspension design, but it doesn't come anywhere close to taking 6.5 hours per side to change the LCA on a LS400. On my LS, it's more like 2 hours/side (maybe 3 if you've never done it before). Thats the alldata specified labor time...12.8 hours. My mechanic did tell me it was more complicated than other Lexus designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTall Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have both a 2004 LS430 and a 2006 LS430 with the Ultra Luxury package. The 2004 has been great, one problem is 45,000 miles (backup camera) that was covered by warranty. The 2006 has been a big disappointment. It was delivered with several inoperable components (mainly due to missing fuses) and has long term problems with squeaking door trim and a moonroof rattle that several visits to multiple dealers have not fixed the problems. Also, the radar cruise control failed and was repaired under warranty. No problems with the air suspension. I would recommend as 2004-2006 LS430 without the Ultra Luxury package. The package adds a lot of complexity to the car, with little benefit. Looking for the Ultra Luxury package will limit your choices since i don't think it is very common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Are you in Raleigh? Looking at Johnson? If so, be somewhat cautious, and don't buy into their sales pitches that "it'd be CPO if it weren't for XXXX". I bought my former 95' LS400 with 81k from them, and, well, you see how many posts I've got? Probably 50% of those are "what's wrong" when I had the LS. After I had it all fixed, it was great. My problems were suspension/driveshaft/vibration issues, and mine was a unique situation for the LS series. But, the load of BS they delivered to me when I bought it, didn't turn out to be true at all. Lesson learned along the way...... That being said...you'll note my other two cars in my signature to the left as well...I'll buy a Toyota V8 engine all day long, with 0% worries. My current GS430, with 58k miles, will turn into a 05-06 LS430 in a couple of years (if not sooner). They're simply fantastic cars. They're built so well, that even if I could, I don't think I could bring myself to paying for a new one. I have no concerns about buying a used Lexus that's under 60k miles. North of that, and it's basically fluid changes and a brake job, which is normal for any car. Severe conditions (like here in Chitcago), north of 50k miles, it's ball joints, maybe a suspension bushing, and possibly an engine mount (worst roads on the planet). PS: I agree with the fellas......steer clear of the air suspension set up. Your roads down there are smooth, you won't notice enough of a difference between the normal set up and the air suspension to justify the costs. (I use to live in NC for 15 years until this past February). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The UL package is great, but I would really avoid the air suspension. Even if they last 100-150k miles...the standard struts will probably last 200k miles and to replace the air struts is a staggeringly expensive ordeal.Plus the UL package is pretty rare on '05 and '06 cars. The ride with the standard struts and the air struts is almost identical. You might want to look for a CL package...has everything from the UL but the rear seat controls and the air suspension. The rear controls is the whole point of the UL package!!! If I were going to get a used '05-'06, I'd want the UL package, air suspension be damned! I probably wouldn't keep it to the point where the air suspension failed, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 The rear controls is the whole point of the UL package!!!If I were going to get a used '05-'06, I'd want the UL package, air suspension be damned! I probably wouldn't keep it to the point where the air suspension failed, anyway. But...why? My dad's 04 has the UL package...and the stuff in the rear was fun for all of a week, and he never gets to enjoy it. Sure theres "oohs" and "aahs" when people get in the car back there but if you're planning on keeping the car for a long time, its just more to break alongside the air suspension. The features I like about the UL package are the radar cruise, the suede headliner (very rich), and the leather dash and door trim. Don't want the air suspension and the rear controls are just a gimmick. So...the CL package is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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