2006 Rx400h - Inverter Leaking Coolant.

[lemon]

Vehicle has 120 000 KM on it. Noticed the inverter coolant reservoir was low on coolant a few days ago. Popped off the plastic engine cover and noticed pink crusty stuff where coolant had leaked out and crystalized. Can upload a picture if anyone wants, but it's at the front of the inverter where it appears that two halves meet. Thought maybe there was something similar to a head gasket sealing the two halves. Took it to the dealer who advised that the inverter is not repairable and is replaced as an entire unit. Thank God it's covered under the hybrid warranty as an inverter is around $7000 apparently.

The dealer said they'd be taking pictures for Toyota to see, as they've never seen one leak before. Scarily, they said they've replaced the odd inverter in the past, though I have no idea what for. I had a nice long chat with the hybrid specialist at the dealer who advised that it's a fairly simple job with only a few bolts holding it on. Fairly time consuming though, as they have to drain the inverter coolant, disconnect hoses/wires, disable the traction battery etc. etc. He also advised they would reset everything (power windows, sunroof, ISC reset and VSC/steering zero point calibration). Plus a car wash, hahaha.

One bonus is that the inverter coolant is recommended to be replaced at 128000KM, so I won't have to worry about that anymore.

BTW, the inverter is the black rectangular thing with the rectangular warning sticker on it. The black plastic stealth bomber shaped thing on top of that is NOT part of the inverter.

[RX400h]

Yes, please upload a picture. I can't imagine how something like that would cost $7000 - a transmission, maybe, but an inverter? <_<

[lemon]

Yes, please upload a picture. I can't imagine how something like that would cost $7000 - a transmission, maybe, but an inverter? <_<

That's what the technician told me (it was off the top of his head and not out of the parts computer). The inverter takes the 288 volts of the battery pack and ups it to 650 volts for the front electric motor (MG2? MG1? .. whichever one drives the front wheels). If you remove the engine cover on the driver's side of the engine, the inverter is the whole unit under that (with the plastic coolant reservoir on top) and it sits on top of the tranny. I'm trying to Google the part to see if I can get a price, but so far no success. At work now - I'll take and upload a pic when I get home.

**edit**

Found one

http://www.oemlexusparts.com/seccat/rx400h...verter-42443/3/

Yup...about $7000

[RX400h]

Wow! I'd hate to have to pay for THAT out-of-warranty! It looks like you wouldn't know about the leak unless you pulled the cover? maybe we should all be checking that, periodically.

[lemon]

Wow! I'd hate to have to pay for THAT out-of-warranty! It looks like you wouldn't know about the leak unless you pulled the cover? maybe we should all be checking that, periodically.

Actually, you can see the coolant reservoir through the cover. I noticed that was low and pulled the plastic cover to see if I could see anything. Luckily the leak was at the front, because it's near impossible to see the back. I would think the leak could be anywhere around the outside of the inverter, as it looks like there are two halves that fit together which you can kind of see in picture 5, which is where my leak is coming from. Had a look at my service CD, and it's a fair amount of moving things out of the way to get that sucker out. The tech at the dealership figured about six hours to do the actual remove/install, then a bit more time to reinitialize everything (power windows, ISC etc.).

This is worrisome. For one, liquid and 650 volts don't mix. For two, what if this happens again out of warranty? $7000!!! I could buy a decent used car for that.

[RX400h]

Nice pics! I'll have to check the one in my RX, this weekend.

[BadBrad]

Mine leaked a few days in the first few thousand miles; leak abated; never thought about it again.

[lemon]

Mine leaked a few days in the first few thousand miles; leak abated; never thought about it again.

You should update your profile page - still shows you as having an RX300.

Where exactly did yours leak?

[BadBrad]

Right you are - I did update my profile - now I look like Hugh Jackman in profile :D .

Contrary to that entire "Expert Shade-tree mechanic" mantra, I never went looking for the leak other than to note it generally originated under or near the inverter. I only noted it's abatement after a day or two.

[skyfish400h]

Right you are - I did update my profile - now I look like Hugh Jackman in profile :D .

Contrary to that entire "Expert Shade-tree mechanic" mantra, I never went looking for the leak other than to note it generally originated under or near the inverter. I only noted it's abatement after a day or two.

Was it leaking onto the ground then?

Because I've never looked under any of those covers, I barely even look under the hood... except to add windshied washer fluid ;)

[RX400h]

How could an RX350 leak coolant from an inverter that isn't even under the hood? Isn't that a hybrid thing only?

[lemon]

I think he used to have a 400h.

[RX400h]

...good point - didn't catch that fact!

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I think he used to have a 400h.

Tough crowd

:P

Actually, if I'd have had to guess, I'd have thought the coolant leak was from the ICE ...

[lemon]

I think he used to have a 400h.

Tough crowd

:P

Actually, if I'd have had to guess, I'd have thought the coolant leak was from the ICE ...

Which coolant leak was from the ICE? Mine or BadBrad's?

If you're talking about my leak, the inverter is that whole unit (it runs way down below where mine is leaking) and it sits on top of the transmission. In my pictures it looks like the leak is where two parts meet (almost like there should be a gasket there separating two separate components), but it is in fact all one unit (the inverter).

The ICE is nowhere near there. If you look under your hood, the ICE is basically the passenger side of the engine bay and the transmission and inverter are the driver's side.

My RX goes in to the dealership on Thursday this week to have a new inverter put in - all under the hybrid warranty.

[Robski]

First I read about a $6000 battery and now a $7000 inverter! I find it very disconcerting that we are driving around in cars that may require a leaking $7000 part to be replaced. Owning this vehicle could turn into one giant nightmare after the 100k hybrid warranty runs out. I'm scared to even think what is going to happen to the resale value of the these vehicles after the hybrid warranty runs out and the flood of complaints about uber expensive replacement components starts streaming in.

So much for the long term aspiration of recouping this vehicle's initially high cost through longer ownership. I mean these are electromechanical devices, of which a certain percentage is bound to break sooner or later, so the more miles we put on these vehicles the higher the likelihood that something eventually will break. Doesn't anyone else worry about the potentially disastrous economic impact looming overhead?

Is it fair for Toyota to be charging $7000 for an inverter? IMHO the high cost of such parts could send current owners to the cleaners and effectively kill the hybrid's future after the public catches on.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

First I read about a $6000 battery and now a $7000 inverter! I find it very disconcerting that we are driving around in cars that may require a leaking $7000 part to be replaced. Owning this vehicle could turn into one giant nightmare after the 100k hybrid warranty runs out. I'm scared to even think what is going to happen to the resale value of the these vehicles after the hybrid warranty runs out and the flood of complaints about uber expensive replacement components starts streaming in.

So much for the long term aspiration of recouping this vehicle's initially high cost through longer ownership. I mean these are electromechanical devices, of which a certain percentage is bound to break sooner or later, so the more miles we put on these vehicles the higher the likelihood that something eventually will break. Doesn't anyone else worry about the potentially disastrous economic impact looming overhead?

Is it fair for Toyota to be charging $7000 for an inverter? IMHO the high cost of such parts could send current owners to the cleaners and effectively kill the hybrid's future after the public catches on.

1)

Most Lexus original owners don't keep their ride for over 100,000

2)

Some states (following CARB rules) carry the hybrid warrany out to 150,000 miles

3)

Recouping the "hybrid value" ?? um, how long 'till you recoup the "value" of a porsche ... a harlery ... a jacked up chromed up 4x4 that never gets off road ... etc

4)

Years ago, folks bought cars with only a 12,000 warranty ... and now that cars are 500% more complex, and the warranty runs for 100,000 - 150,000 we whine about "what may happen" after the warranty (that many never see the end of, because we move on to the newer model ...)

5)

Folks keep buying & buying & buying regular ol' ICE vehicles that sometimes break down and magically the population doesn't stop buying them, causing sales to dry up.

6) The point of #5 above is this: It'd take the kind of regular, consistent, poor workmanship of a large segment of a manufacturer's inventory to be bad ... and ONLY then, if the manufacturer failed to step up to the plate, would sales go away. Take the 1972 Chevy Vega for example. 100% went south. Ours went bad just 500 miles after the 12,000 warranty expired. The GM folks just laughed. THAT's what it took to make the vehicle fail. Ford Pinto would EXPLOAD on rear impact. THAT's what it took to make the vehicle fail. A little fluid leak? Bad, yes. Unexceptable, yes. Inconvenient? Yes. Fatal to continued success of the Name brand / Model brand? You'll have to decide.

;)

.

[lemon]

First I read about a $6000 battery and now a $7000 inverter! I find it very disconcerting that we are driving around in cars that may require a leaking $7000 part to be replaced. Owning this vehicle could turn into one giant nightmare after the 100k hybrid warranty runs out. I'm scared to even think what is going to happen to the resale value of the these vehicles after the hybrid warranty runs out and the flood of complaints about uber expensive replacement components starts streaming in.

So much for the long term aspiration of recouping this vehicle's initially high cost through longer ownership. I mean these are electromechanical devices, of which a certain percentage is bound to break sooner or later, so the more miles we put on these vehicles the higher the likelihood that something eventually will break. Doesn't anyone else worry about the potentially disastrous economic impact looming overhead?

Is it fair for Toyota to be charging $7000 for an inverter? IMHO the high cost of such parts could send current owners to the cleaners and effectively kill the hybrid's future after the public catches on.

The battery is only about $2500 to $3000. Still not pocket change, but not $6000. The inverter however, is between $6500 and $7000. The dealer did advise me that they'd never seen one leak, and had only replaced a handful inverters (don't know what for).

[Robski]

The battery is only about $2500 to $3000. Still not pocket change, but not $6000. The inverter however, is between $6500 and $7000. The dealer did advise me that they'd never seen one leak, and had only replaced a handful inverters (don't know what for).

If my memory serves me correctly the price of the battery used to be much higher. It must have gone down in price and that's great to see. Hopefully, that will be the case with most of the other hybrid components or else these vehicles could prove to be a very costly endeavour for second or third hand owners. The Prius has been around for longer so I would gather that there must be a good deal of them which are out of the warranty period. If people aren't having issues quality wise with them, then perhaps we will be ok as well. Only time will tell how this will play out.

[skyfish400h]

Still not clear on how exactly the inverter leak came to the owner(s) attention.

I'm looking under my car but there is nothing but water coming out of it (from the AC drain) since it was new.

Should I feel safe or should I dig deeper to put my mind at rest?

[lemon]

Still not clear on how exactly the inverter leak came to the owner(s) attention.

I'm looking under my car but there is nothing but water coming out of it (from the AC drain) since it was new.

Should I feel safe or should I dig deeper to put my mind at rest?

Look at my pictures. Remove the plastic engine covers on the driver's side and behold your inverter. Yours will likely not be leaking (my dealership says they've never seen one leak). If it is leaking, it may or may not be in the same place as mine. Initially I noticed the low coolant level in the inverter coolant reservoir, which led me to delve deeper.

[rx4ooh2006]

Where can I find information on the hybrid system being covered to 150K? CARB sounds like California Air Resources Board, but I am in Southern Cal and can't find anything in my rx400h manuals beyond 100K. I have had an extremely slow loss of coolant on the inverter side reservoir which seems to have stopped for now. There is coolant evidence on a vertical seam well below the inverter area, kind of lower and to the left of the small inverter coolant hose. I looked under the inverter area with a mirror and can't find it leaking anywhere. My car just turned 101K.

First I read about a $6000 battery and now a $7000 inverter! I find it very disconcerting that we are driving around in cars that may require a leaking $7000 part to be replaced. Owning this vehicle could turn into one giant nightmare after the 100k hybrid warranty runs out. I'm scared to even think what is going to happen to the resale value of the these vehicles after the hybrid warranty runs out and the flood of complaints about uber expensive replacement components starts streaming in.

So much for the long term aspiration of recouping this vehicle's initially high cost through longer ownership. I mean these are electromechanical devices, of which a certain percentage is bound to break sooner or later, so the more miles we put on these vehicles the higher the likelihood that something eventually will break. Doesn't anyone else worry about the potentially disastrous economic impact looming overhead?

Is it fair for Toyota to be charging $7000 for an inverter? IMHO the high cost of such parts could send current owners to the cleaners and effectively kill the hybrid's future after the public catches on.

1)

Most Lexus original owners don't keep their ride for over 100,000

2)

Some states (following CARB rules) carry the hybrid warrany out to 150,000 miles

3)

Recouping the "hybrid value" ?? um, how long 'till you recoup the "value" of a porsche ... a harlery ... a jacked up chromed up 4x4 that never gets off road ... etc

4)

Years ago, folks bought cars with only a 12,000 warranty ... and now that cars are 500% more complex, and the warranty runs for 100,000 - 150,000 we whine about "what may happen" after the warranty (that many never see the end of, because we move on to the newer model ...)

5)

Folks keep buying & buying & buying regular ol' ICE vehicles that sometimes break down and magically the population doesn't stop buying them, causing sales to dry up.

6) The point of #5 above is this: It'd take the kind of regular, consistent, poor workmanship of a large segment of a manufacturer's inventory to be bad ... and ONLY then, if the manufacturer failed to step up to the plate, would sales go away. Take the 1972 Chevy Vega for example. 100% went south. Ours went bad just 500 miles after the 12,000 warranty expired. The GM folks just laughed. THAT's what it took to make the vehicle fail. Ford Pinto would EXPLOAD on rear impact. THAT's what it took to make the vehicle fail. A little fluid leak? Bad, yes. Unexceptable, yes. Inconvenient? Yes. Fatal to continued success of the Name brand / Model brand? You'll have to decide.

;)

.

[lemon]

Definitely a coolant leak, but hard to tell where it's comign from. However, if the level in the inverter reservoir was dropping, then yes, it's the inverter leaking from somewhere. I would take it to the Lexus dealer sooner rather than later, especially since you're just over the 100000 mile warranty. With the amount of bad press Lexus/Toyota has been getting lately with recalls and such, they may ignore the fact that you're 1000 miles over the warranty. Plus, if the coolant is dried and built up like that, it's been leaking for sometime now, not jut recently, or else it would appear wet.

It might even be something simple, like a loose hose clamp or small leak in a hose. If you could see the underside of that hose that's just above the leak you could tell for sure if it's coming from that hose (there are a few other hoses connected to the inverter as well.

[rx4ooh2006]

OK, so I took it in to the dealer, fearing the worst with the inverter. Instead, they diagnosed that the coolant is coming from the transaxle (I didn't know there was coolant there)...the clincher...no way to fix the leak, the transaxle needs to be replaced for $5900 plus tax. Ouch. I asked if the coolant was mixed with the transmission fluid and they said it is a sealed system and so no, the coolant can't get into the fluid. So I said then as long as the coolant is kept topped off,nothing will happen? and he replied "right". So with a leak that appears to be stopped or only leaking ever so slightly, guess what I'm doing (at least until/if it gets worse)?

Definitely a coolant leak, but hard to tell where it's comign from. However, if the level in the inverter reservoir was dropping, then yes, it's the inverter leaking from somewhere. I would take it to the Lexus dealer sooner rather than later, especially since you're just over the 100000 mile warranty. With the amount of bad press Lexus/Toyota has been getting lately with recalls and such, they may ignore the fact that you're 1000 miles over the warranty. Plus, if the coolant is dried and built up like that, it's been leaking for sometime now, not jut recently, or else it would appear wet.

It might even be something simple, like a loose hose clamp or small leak in a hose. If you could see the underside of that hose that's just above the leak you could tell for sure if it's coming from that hose (there are a few other hoses connected to the inverter as well.

[lemon]

Ouch..yeah the electric motors (MG1 and MG2) are integrated into the transaxle and IIRC (I can check my shop manual when I get home) they are cooled by the same coolant that flows through the inverter. That really sucks - did you aks if they would warranty it? I have 145000 KM on my 2006 and hope there isn't going to be a bunch of failing systems as these hybrids get older (and higher in mileage).

Part of my automotive bucket list is to own a diesel...wondering if I should be thinking about trading the 400h for something that will get decent mileage but not have such complicated engineering.