Drove A Cadillac Cts And Sat In A New Srx Today...

[smooth1]

The Tahoe is a much larger vehicle than the RX or the Highlander. You really need to compare the Tahoe to a Sequoia. Comparing a Hybrid Tahoe to a Hybrid Highlander is like comparing a LS600h to a Ford Focus Hybrid because both are hybrids...doesn't make any sense.

The Tahoe starts at $36,965, the Sequoia starts at $38,530. Equip them up and an LTZ Tahoe comes in at $56,240 with $4,000 cash bringing it to $52,240. A similar Sequoia Limited is $56,317...$4,100 more.

Comparing the Highlander to the Chevy Traverse is more fair. The Highlander starts at $29.050, the Traverse starts at $31,224. Loaded the Highlander Limited is $40,720 while the Traverse LTZ is $44,120

If you are going to compare the RX, compare the SRX vs the RX350.

As for the Escalade...I dunno...I see a LOT more Escalades than LXs. Its also not fair to compare the hybrid model to an LX.

An LX loaded with the rear seat DVD is a staggering $82,360

A fully loaded Escalade spec'd out the same is $73,035 with $6,000 cash back bringing it to $67.035, making it $15,325 cheaper.

I think it comes down to costs vs profits. It's simply more expensive to build cars here in America because of laws, increased material cost, and greater wages. If you gave GM $20,000 and Toyota $20,000, Toyota can do more with it because they have less costs than GM would have to deal with.

I'd agree with you except that 90% of the Toyota lineup is actually built in America.

Toyota doesn't have to deal with the UAW which helps, but its not the entire problem. Biggest problem is years of building sh!tty cars that Americans just didn't want.

Steve, your points are correct. I'm not debating the "magazine" classifications and how they look on paper. I'm more approaching this as a real buyer. And I'm sorry, but when I test drove a Chevy Tahoe a few days ago, (it seats 5) and then test drove a Mercedes Benz ML350, (that also seats 5) and then say to myself that these are both the same price, all I can do is laugh! The Tahoe is no where near the ML in anything other than size. And a non hybrid ML still gets better MPG's than a Hybrid Tahoe. Not to mention the ML has 4matic AWD and a 7 speed sequential touch shift auto trans. Even without going into the office to play hard ball the salesman dropped the price in the lot on the ML to $51K with a PO2 package! That includes touch start, dolby digital surround sound by Harmon Kardon, 40 gig harddrive and hard drive nav with real time traffic, parkmatic, and a whole bunch of other useless but cool stuff on it! And I get to go to a posh Mercedes Benz dealer for service, where I can choose to wait in thier huge living room style area, or cruise the internet cafe while they bring me finger sandwiches and sodas, or I could just choose to take a loaner car to continue my day. GM offers instead, a more truck stop approach, with thier 2 week old coffee/stale newspaper smelling vinyl floored waiting room. A state of the art 1980's 21'' color TV with rabbit ears barely pulling in a local news station all the while listening to that constant digital announcement buzzer on the PA system looking for Bubba Johnson in the accessories department while I lean on a set of gumball machines so my a$$ doesn't fall asleep on the most uncomforatble, barely intact plastic chairs they could find. And no car loaner programs to get around it either. GM needs to step up on alot more before I can honestly call them competitive at $50k + offerrings. The Volt coming out holds alot of promise, and so does the Orlando Concept and the Cruze. But one of my biggest fears about those right now is with the amount of pressure that the government and upper Mgmt. at GM is under to turn out some company saving models, that they don't "cover up" some problems or issues that would be detrimental to production dates and expectations. It wouldn't be the first time. I'm not in any way saying that it is the case here, I'm just airing my opinion about GM.

I almost forgot to tie this back to the SRX. The SRX is a much better competitor and has so much more potential. It seats the same amount of passengers, V8 option, computer controlled suspension, fully loaded, MSRP is $57,000.00 less the same $4000 rebate makes it $53,000.00. And atleast there they have a rug in the waiting room, a 32'' flat screen and give out free popcorn. lol!!

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Here, I'll put in my 2¢. I never had a problem with the quality of a GM product and before my ES my family was strictly GM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip

I had no issue either . . . until our '72 Vega fell apart just after the 12 month warranty expired. That cost us a half year's wages back then. Things may be better now, but why take a chance when Lexus often fixes stuff just for good PR ?

[nc211]

[but why take a chance when Lexus often fixes stuff just for good PR ?

Wait....they do? ! I need to get a couple of grand back from Johnson Lexus in Raleigh!!

[SW03ES]

Steve, your points are correct. I'm not debating the "magazine" classifications and how they look on paper. I'm more approaching this as a real buyer. And I'm sorry, but when I test drove a Chevy Tahoe a few days ago, (it seats 5) and then test drove a Mercedes Benz ML350, (that also seats 5) and then say to myself that these are both the same price, all I can do is laugh!

But smooth, the comparison isn't fair. Buyers aren't going to cross-shop a Tahoe and an ML350...not real buyers. Thats like saying why would you buy a Sienna Minivan when the 3 series BMW is the same price. The statement makes no sense. If a buyer needs/wants the minivan...they aren't even ever going to drive a 3 series BMW. Same is true with the Tahoe, if they want a big American truck-based SUV with a V8 that can tow their trailer or boat...they aren't even going to look at the ML350. The ML350 buyer might look at the Cadillac SRX...or at least Cadillac would like them to.

Demographically the two vehicles go after entirely different buyers an comparing them is pointless. Go drive a Sequoia and compare it...thats fair.

They sell plenty of Tahoes anyways...

It also isn't fair to compare Chevy dealers to Lexus or Mercedes dealers. First of all service at Lexus and Mercedes costs like 3 times what it does at Chevy. Compare a Chevy dealer to a Toyota dealer and that would be more fair...they're pretty comparable. The Chevy dealer is not a luxury car dealer...nor does it pretend to be so. Its just like Ford, Toyota, Honda, whatever.

Toyota has plenty of $50k+ models...and even a $70k model...the Land Cruiser...with the same dealer quality as GM.

I almost forgot to tie this back to the SRX. The SRX is a much better competitor and has so much more potential. It seats the same amount of passengers, V8 option, computer controlled suspension, fully loaded, MSRP is $57,000.00 less the same $4000 rebate makes it $53,000.00. And atleast there they have a rug in the waiting room, a 32'' flat screen and give out free popcorn. lol!!

Actually the new 2010 SRX no longer has the V8 option and is cheaper. Its FWD/AWD like the RX. The previous SRX was RWD/AWD.

[blake918]

And no car loaner programs to get around it either.

They do if the service takes long enough, and with a GM, that's not uncommon! My dad has gotten a couple loaners due to lengthy warranty work needed on his GMC truck (which is a POS.). They give you a slip to take over to Enterprise (who is on site at his dealer), and they bill directly back to the dealer. It's not like at Lexus or Acura (where after you tell them what you want, they say there's a silver xx outside with the a/c running, that one is for you), but if they need it for a while, they'll give you a loaner. Given that GM is not a luxury dealer, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to be selective with doling out loaner cars. I can say, though, the new Malibu is a fantastic car. I drove one (3.5 LT) from Las Vegas to New Orleans, and I really enjoyed the car. Great performance, efficiency, quality, and superb looks in and out.

I've got to agree with Steve, ML vs. Tahoe is apples and oranges. Sure, same prices, but they are going after two totally different customers. Most people get $8k-$14k off of a GM truck/SUV. I think $8k-$14k off of a MB is highly unlikely unless it's leftover or if it's brown or some other undesirable color.

[smooth1]

Steve, your points are correct. I'm not debating the "magazine" classifications and how they look on paper. I'm more approaching this as a real buyer. And I'm sorry, but when I test drove a Chevy Tahoe a few days ago, (it seats 5) and then test drove a Mercedes Benz ML350, (that also seats 5) and then say to myself that these are both the same price, all I can do is laugh!

But smooth, the comparison isn't fair. Buyers aren't going to cross-shop a Tahoe and an ML350...not real buyers. Thats like saying why would you buy a Sienna Minivan when the 3 series BMW is the same price. The statement makes no sense. If a buyer needs/wants the minivan...they aren't even ever going to drive a 3 series BMW. Same is true with the Tahoe, if they want a big American truck-based SUV with a V8 that can tow their trailer or boat...they aren't even going to look at the ML350. The ML350 buyer might look at the Cadillac SRX...or at least Cadillac would like them to.

Demographically the two vehicles go after entirely different buyers an comparing them is pointless. Go drive a Sequoia and compare it...thats fair.

They sell plenty of Tahoes anyways...

It also isn't fair to compare Chevy dealers to Lexus or Mercedes dealers. First of all service at Lexus and Mercedes costs like 3 times what it does at Chevy. Compare a Chevy dealer to a Toyota dealer and that would be more fair...they're pretty comparable. The Chevy dealer is not a luxury car dealer...nor does it pretend to be so. Its just like Ford, Toyota, Honda, whatever.

Toyota has plenty of $50k+ models...and even a $70k model...the Land Cruiser...with the same dealer quality as GM.

I almost forgot to tie this back to the SRX. The SRX is a much better competitor and has so much more potential. It seats the same amount of passengers, V8 option, computer controlled suspension, fully loaded, MSRP is $57,000.00 less the same $4000 rebate makes it $53,000.00. And atleast there they have a rug in the waiting room, a 32'' flat screen and give out free popcorn. lol!!

Actually the new 2010 SRX no longer has the V8 option and is cheaper. Its FWD/AWD like the RX. The previous SRX was RWD/AWD.

Ummm, actually the ML has a 10k mile oil change interval verses the 3,500 mile interval for GM. So even if it was 3x's more, it works out to be the same as GM's. Lexus and most others are at 5,000 mile intervals. I think BMW also does the 10k mile intervals now, along with that free maintenance program they have. And from all the cost of ownership reports that I've seen, the Tahoe is actually the highest!

But smooth, the comparison isn't fair. Buyers aren't going to cross-shop a Tahoe and an ML350...not real buyers. Thats like saying why would you buy a Sienna Minivan when the 3 series BMW is the same price. The statement makes no sense. If a buyer needs/wants the minivan...they aren't even ever going to drive a 3 series BMW. Same is true with the Tahoe, if they want a big American truck-based SUV with a V8 that can tow their trailer or boat...they aren't even going to look at the ML350. The ML350 buyer might look at the Cadillac SRX...or at least Cadillac would like them to.

I'm a real buyer. And I did. And your right, you can't compare em. It's like comparing an outhouse to your master bathroom. While the outhouse may have a few advantages, I just don't see them being built next to our homes anymore.

I really wanted to give GM a shot. I have to say I was very disappointed. Do me a favor. Go to a GM dealership, open a Tahoe and get in. Look at the center console between the driver seat and passenger seat. I'm not exaggerating this. There is a compartment with a flip up lid on it that in every one I sat in, which must have been atleast 5 or 6 Tahoes where that lid doesn't even come close to fitting properly. One of the Tahoes was missing that lid altogether, and in fact, when I drove the one I did, as we exited the lot and I rolled over the entrance/exit to the street, the bumps caused the lid to flip open! Now I know, it's just this little compartment, but if they did that there, then what about all the other stuff I can't see? (shakes head in disappointment.)

So, if you had a family of 5, and had 60K to buy a vehicle, you mean you wouldn't even consider which one, the Tahoe or the ML350? Why wouldn't you? I think you should really look at the cabin space of both. In fact, the ML350 actually offers more seating space then the Tahoe per seating passenger in head room, and leg room, and the back seats on the ML350 are way nicer than the ones on the Tahoe. The wheel base on the Tahoe is only 2 inches longer. The truck just sits 2 inches higher so it looks so much bigger, and the engine compartment is huge on the GM. The Tahoe does offer more cargo space. But the towing capacity of both are also more than ample for the weekend boat or jetski's. I just don't see these as so far apart as you seem to. And, from what I've seen of the GM line, if passenger space, cargo space and towing capacity were the true needs of the buyer, then the Chevy Express 1500 van would be the ultimate buy at under $30K and offeres staggering passenger space and an even higher towing capacity than the Tahoe. But who wants a van right? When you can have a giant SUV? I still maintain that the Tahoe is out of it's price range. It's a dinasour that I think GM would be better off just doing away with, or making it a smaller version and dropping the Equinox or Traverse.

[smooth1]

And no car loaner programs to get around it either.

They do if the service takes long enough, and with a GM, that's not uncommon! My dad has gotten a couple loaners due to lengthy warranty work needed on his GMC truck (which is a POS.). They give you a slip to take over to Enterprise (who is on site at his dealer), and they bill directly back to the dealer. It's not like at Lexus or Acura (where after you tell them what you want, they say there's a silver xx outside with the a/c running, that one is for you), but if they need it for a while, they'll give you a loaner. Given that GM is not a luxury dealer, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to be selective with doling out loaner cars. I can say, though, the new Malibu is a fantastic car. I drove one (3.5 LT) from Las Vegas to New Orleans, and I really enjoyed the car. Great performance, efficiency, quality, and superb looks in and out.

I've got to agree with Steve, ML vs. Tahoe is apples and oranges. Sure, same prices, but they are going after two totally different customers. Most people get $8k-$14k off of a GM truck/SUV. I think $8k-$14k off of a MB is highly unlikely unless it's leftover or if it's brown or some other undesirable color.

8-14k off? no way.

Let me clear up a quick point here. I'm not saying that GM is crap across the board. They can make a good car. Do in fact. I'm not so much argueing the comparison of a ML350 to the Tahoe. It could just as easily be XX SUV against the Tahoe. I'm more pointing at a $50K + Chevy Tahoe! I know people want what they want, and Chevy is there to serve them, but in my opinion, it's stupid! I almost can't think of any good reason to own a Tahoe when you look across the board and look at what is available in that price range. Given the circumstances today, the fuel cost issues, the jobless, and economy, they almost have to put that huge "Hybrid" print on the sides of it so you can look all the other drivers in the eyes while your tooling down the road! lol!!

[blake918]

8-14k off? no way.

Sure they do. My dad got $12,000 off his Sierra last summer (no owner loyalty, no rebate from a GM credit card, etc.). It had a $53,000 sticker. And, he didn't spend hours haggling back and forth. It's a black on tan turbo diesel z71, so it wasn't an off color, and it hadn't been sitting there for months and months. He told them that's what he'd pay (after he and I researched it online), and they took it because that's the going rate for GM trucks and SUVs because they aren't $50k vehicles. I've seen on some forums that people come across Yukons and high trim Tahoes that have been sitting on the lots for months, and they get even better deals (that's where the $14k came from). It's not like a Japanese car where roughly 10% off is a good deal.

Here's a quick example of a base model Tahoe with $8k off. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-NEW-Ch...d=p4506.c0.m245

LTZ for $55k sticker for $46k: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-NEW-Ch...d=p4506.c0.m245

Those are buy it now prices. A good negotiator could get even more off.

I know people want what they want, and Chevy is there to serve them, but in my opinion, it's stupid! I almost can't think of any good reason to own a Tahoe when you look across the board and look at what is available in that price range.

And I'm sure a Tahoe owner would wonder the same thing! I, for one, would be far more inclined to get a Tahoe...scratch that I'm a Ford guy, the Expedition since the nearest MB dealer is a 140 mile trip away. $30k for that Tahoe is a good buy (bluetooth, stability control, 3 rows of seats, V8 engine, towing package, etc.); if I had a family or a need for a SUV, I'd seriously consider it since the Highlander, Pilot, and most other crossovers just don't do it for me.

[smooth1]

8-14k off? no way.

Sure they do. My dad got $12,000 off his Sierra last summer (no owner loyalty, no rebate from a GM credit card, etc.). It had a $53,000 sticker. And, he didn't spend hours haggling back and forth. It's a black on tan turbo diesel z71, so it wasn't an off color, and it hadn't been sitting there for months and months. He told them that's what he'd pay (after he and I researched it online), and they took it because that's the going rate for GM trucks and SUVs because they aren't $50k vehicles. I've seen on some forums that people come across Yukons and high trim Tahoes that have been sitting on the lots for months, and they get even better deals (that's where the $14k came from). It's not like a Japanese car where roughly 10% off is a good deal.

Here's a quick example of a base model Tahoe with $8k off. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-NEW-Ch...d=p4506.c0.m245

LTZ for $55k sticker for $46k: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2009-NEW-Ch...d=p4506.c0.m245

Those are buy it now prices. A good negotiator could get even more off.

I know people want what they want, and Chevy is there to serve them, but in my opinion, it's stupid! I almost can't think of any good reason to own a Tahoe when you look across the board and look at what is available in that price range.

And I'm sure a Tahoe owner would wonder the same thing! I, for one, would be far more inclined to get a Tahoe...scratch that I'm a Ford guy, the Expedition since the nearest MB dealer is a 140 mile trip away. $30k for that Tahoe is a good buy (bluetooth, stability control, 3 rows of seats, V8 engine, towing package, etc.); if I had a family or a need for a SUV, I'd seriously consider it since the Highlander, Pilot, and most other crossovers just don't do it for me.

I was so dissappointed with the Tahoe I didn't discuss pricing, so I'll go there this weekend and talk hardball to see what the real price ends up at. But if they ARE discounting that much, then that just goes to show you that the GM mentality hasn't changed much at all. After what they have done to the tax payer, why not just offer their cars and trucks for an honest price?

[blake918]

I was so dissappointed with the Tahoe I didn't discuss pricing, so I'll go there this weekend and talk hardball to see what the real price ends up at. But if they ARE discounting that much, then that just goes to show you that the GM mentality hasn't changed much at all. After what they have done to the tax payer, why not just offer their cars and trucks for an honest price?

Just search ebay and the forums to see what number you should be at, and 30 seconds on ebay told me that $10k off a LTZ is where you need to start, and I'd suspect the forums would tell you that you can go even further. They ARE discounting them that much; I'm not sure why this is so surprising. It's the way it is, and it's been like this for years and years.

I wish I knew how the Detroit marketing morons came up with their pricing strategies because they are laughable. Imagine if that Tahoe LS had a sticker of $33k, a fair deal for the dealer and customer was $29k, and if you really wanted to haggle, pay $27k (which I have seen local specials on new Tahoe LSs)....they would sell far more than they do now. They do $4k-$6k off new Impalas and Malibus too. Makes them even more appealing cars!

[SW03ES]

Ummm, actually the ML has a 10k mile oil change interval verses the 3,500 mile interval for GM. So even if it was 3x's more, it works out to be the same as GM's. Lexus and most others are at 5,000 mile intervals. I think BMW also does the 10k mile intervals now, along with that free maintenance program they have. And from all the cost of ownership reports that I've seen, the Tahoe is actually the highest!

But the dealer service per hour is cheaper. The Chevrolet is just not a luxury car...its like a Toyota...and Toyota dealers are just as crummy.

I'm a real buyer. And I did. And your right, you can't compare em. It's like comparing an outhouse to your master bathroom. While the outhouse may have a few advantages, I just don't see them being built next to our homes anymore.

Then you are in the distinct minority who would cross shop the vehicles, and I would say it was silly to do so. Lets just say if you could use an ML350 for your purposes, you had no business in a Tahoe anyways because the benefits of the Tahoe...mainly towing and hauling...are of no use to you.

Go to a GM dealership, open a Tahoe and get in. Look at the center console between the driver seat and passenger seat. I'm not exaggerating this. There is a compartment with a flip up lid on it that in every one I sat in, which must have been atleast 5 or 6 Tahoes where that lid doesn't even come close to fitting properly. One of the Tahoes was missing that lid altogether, and in fact, when I drove the one I did, as we exited the lot and I rolled over the entrance/exit to the street, the bumps caused the lid to flip open! Now I know, it's just this little compartment, but if they did that there, then what about all the other stuff I can't see? (shakes head in disappointment.)

I've done better...I've driven several Tahoes. Its no Mercedes Benz...but its not supposed to be. I found them very similar to the Toyota Sequoia...which is no surprise because those two are actually designed to be competitive (i.e. Chevrolet never even looked at a Mercedes when designing the Tahoe...would be no point) and are very similar in cost. The Toyota Sequoia is the same cost as the Tahoe...and isn't nearly as nice as an ML350...why aren't you making the same tirade about the Sequoia?

So, if you had a family of 5, and had 60K to buy a vehicle, you mean you wouldn't even consider which one, the Tahoe or the ML350? Why wouldn't you? I think you should really look at the cabin space of both. In fact, the ML350 actually offers more seating space then the Tahoe per seating passenger in head room, and leg room, and the back seats on the ML350 are way nicer than the ones on the Tahoe. The wheel base on the Tahoe is only 2 inches longer. The truck just sits 2 inches higher so it looks so much bigger, and the engine compartment is huge on the GM. The Tahoe does offer more cargo space. But the towing capacity of both are also more than ample for the weekend boat or jetski's. I just don't see these as so far apart as you seem to.

Actually if I had a family of 5...I wouldn't even look at a Tahoe, because I would never use it for towing a boat or camper. Only reason I'd buy one is for that. However, if I had a boat or a camper...I wouldn't even look at an ML350.

You're assuming a buyer would cross shop the two, and any buyer who would doesn't really need the Tahoe anyways.

I still maintain that the Tahoe is out of it's price range. It's a dinasour that I think GM would be better off just doing away with, or making it a smaller version and dropping the Equinox or Traverse.

But why is the Tahoe the best selling fullsize SUV on the market, if its so overpriced? People buy them...a lot of them and the Suburban too. They sell a lot more Tahoes than they do ML350s.