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135,000 Miles '91 Ls400 -- Camshaft And Valves Leaking Oil


LS400Luver
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Hi guys. First post. Be gentle. :D

I have a 1991 LS400. And yes, I would like very much to keep it, as I love the car.

Over the last several months the car has developed an oil leak (s). I have now taken it to two different (and both recommended) mechanics here in the DFW area and they both say the same thing. Camshaft and crankshaft seals and valve cover gaskets have to be replaced. The second garage actually washed down the engine and then watched until seepage was visible, so I don't doubt the diagnosis.

Timing belt and water pump were replaced at 94K.

My question to you experts on here (and watch out because there are more questions coming on other elder LS400 care and feeding topics!) is this. Do these leaks represent an engine that is going to need additional repair on down the road?

I ask because the car is also in need of new tires, a new instrument cluster (tach and water temp are not working) and a few other normal aging upkeep items.

Yes, it's that old dilemma -- should I look for another Black Beauty -- or will this seal repair work on the engine set me up for another 100K miles in fine fashion? Is this normal? I ask because oil leaks like this do not seem to be the norm for this engine.

Second question: I never really had a "formal" 130K maintenance check done. What items do you feel should be replaced and/or checked with a 130k maintenance check? If I am going to deplete my bank balance getting the leaks repaired, I might as well go into debt full bore. ;)

Thanks!

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If its actual miles, that car is not even broken in at 135K. I imagine that the seals may just be old due to age. I know that the valve cover gaskets go around this time... mine are leaking on my 1991 and were seeping on my 1990 I had 6 years ago. I have not heard of that other oil leak you mentioned, though, especially at that mileage, but I am sure its not out of the question. I dont have any oil leaks on mine and it has 222K (except the valve cover gaskets).

Instrument cluster issue is common, though I have not heard too much of those problems you mentioned at such low mileage. Still with those low miles, I would just repair yours and keep it. Its hard to find a low mileage gen 1 LS400.

I am curious.... what about your power steering pump? Any leaks or issues there yet? Now that is a very common issue on these.

I am definitely not the most knowledgable person here, so hopefully more will chime in. Welcome to the site btw.

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If its actual miles, that car is not even broken in at 135K. I imagine that the seals may just be old due to age. I know that the valve cover gaskets go around this time... mine are leaking on my 1991 and were seeping on my 1990 I had 6 years ago. I have not heard of that other oil leak you mentioned, though, especially at that mileage, but I am sure its not out of the question. I dont have any oil leaks on mine and it has 222K (except the valve cover gaskets).

Instrument cluster issue is common, though I have not heard too much of those problems you mentioned at such low mileage. Still with those low miles, I would just repair yours and keep it. Its hard to find a low mileage gen 1 LS400.

I am curious.... what about your power steering pump? Any leaks or issues there yet? Now that is a very common issue on these.

I am definitely not the most knowledgable person here, so hopefully more will chime in. Welcome to the site btw.

Thank you for the nice welcome!

Yes, they are original miles. I purchased the car from Sewell in Dallas in 1999. Car only had 60K on it when I bought it. It was in excellent condition, pristine actually, and I received a copy of all service records. I have a home-based business, so for the last 10 years the car has had only seen about 7K a year. No commuting, so it's easy to keep the miles down.

Yes, I fought through the power steering issues two years ago -- but the last couple of months I am beginning to feel some binding again on the ends of the turning cycle, if you understand what I am talking about. Power steering fluid is fine, and it is not leaking. So dunno. But yes, went through all of that.

I know the instrument cluster thing is normal. I had my mechanic install a separate engine temp gauge for me about 6 months ago -- after an incident that left me on the side of the road in 30 degree temps and an empty radiator. ;-( Oh yeah, replaced the radiator. It had developed a nice crack.

My gut feeling on the oil leaks is that is is just age related. While the car has few miles on it -- the damn thing is 18 years old. ;-)

Feedback from the two shops I have taken it to in Dallas (bad thing about moving....you have to find all new support systems for your aging baby) is that this is not a serious issue -- that the engine is just fine. Just thought I would come in and get the opinion of those who count -- you folks who own them.

As for the normal other issues, yes, my power door lock button broke off a couple of months ago, and all but two of my speaker units have now bitten the dust. My next post, in fact, is going to be a question about how I should replace those tweeter/woofer Pioneers. My radio (I have the Nak) is as great as ever. No problem there. LCD readout for the AC was actually replaced by a dealer at 75K. I hated him at the time for his "preventative maintenance" (as it cost an arm and a leg), but I guess I should thank him now for padding his service profits. LOL.

Anyway, yep, she has all the usual symptoms. I joined the board because I think it's time I either put some money into her, or....well, you know. And frankly, if am going to put more money into her, I need to do my homework. So that is why, after years of lurking in here, I finally joined.

Thanks again for the kind welcome.

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Not sure if this is your leak but if it is the front seal for the crankshaft or the seal on the front of each cam shaft its too bad they weren't changed when the TB was changed. They were 95% of the way there, it would have been minimal extra work to swap in new ones. You might ask you shop why they skipped this step.

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Not sure if this is your leak but if it is the front seal for the crankshaft or the seal on the front of each cam shaft its too bad they weren't changed when the TB was changed. They were 95% of the way there, it would have been minimal extra work to swap in new ones. You might ask you shop why they skipped this step.

Unfortunately the timing belt and water pump were changed at the Lexus dealer in New Orleans in 2001. It was shortly after that service that I stopped using them altogether. (Long ugly story....let's just say as we all know, not all Lexus dealers are alike). It was done as part of the 90K service. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm back in Dallas and have the advantage of not only a number of indy folks to call upon, but Sewell as well.

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Hi LS400Luver,

If it is just the surround foam on your speakers that went sour, you can order new surround foams and replace them yourself. I just repaired my subwoofer located on the packing shelf. It was fairly easy. Sounds good as new.

Contact Simply Speakers:

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/

1-800-511-3343

(Ask for Tom, he sounded like he really knew his stuff.)

And tell them what size speakers you have. The rear subwoofer is an 8 inch Pioneer and the part number is:

FS-8

It comes with directions, pictures, glue an everything you need to change the foam. It was $21.95 with the shipping.

The subwoofer has a special metal frame to fit the packing shelf. It would be kind of tough to find a replacement.

Sounds like the New Orleans dealer gave you the runaround or they did not know what they were doing. The cam and crank seals should have been replaced when the timing belt and water pump were changed. I guess they did it that way so they could charge you twice for tearing the front of your engine down.

Concerning keeping the car, here is my story:

I came across my 91 LS 400 about 3-4 years ago. I do collision repair for a living and someone had wrecked their LS and I bought it from them for $1000.00. It was not in great shape but the price was right. I kept it all this time and tried my best not to put any money into it except for changing the oil, brakes and regular maintenance items because I did not know if I wanted to keep the car or not.

It has all of the problems of these older LS400's and I have put off doing any of the work. I kept telling myself, "Should I scrap the car or keep it?"

There were several things that made me decide to keep the car.

1. My boss has a friend that is a multi-millionaire and is in the investment business. He just paid several million dollars for his new home that he had built. This man can buy any new car that he wishes to buy and pay cash for it with no problems at all. Sure he has a new Mercedes but he also has a 1990 Lexus LS 400.

He prefers to ride around in the 20 year old Lexus over the brand new Mercedes. I asked him why and he says it is a better riding car. He says he takes his Mercedes to Vegas and places he needs to show status but he prefers to drive the Lexus. He has kept the maintenance up and has even had the seats reupholstered. He refuses to let it go.

2. My wife's friend had a brother who was a bigshot here in Baton Rouge Louisiana. He was a bigshot with The Shaw Group, a Fortune 500 company. They gave him a new company car every year or so to drive. He drove a Lexus for a few years and then they traded him up with a Mercedes. He complained about the Mercedes and told his company he wanted his Lexus back. He said it was a better car.

3. I got in an accident back in July and my work car, a Toyota Corolla was totaled. I rented a brand new 2009 Nissan Sentra for a few days. After driving in the Nissan, my wife and I both realized that our old raggedy Lexus, even with the suspension problems it had, drove better than the brand new Nissan Sentra.

I told my wife that we would be hard pressed to find a better riding car than our Lexus. So I decided not only to keep the car, but to fully restore it back to factory condition. I have full intentions on spending several thousand dollars to restore it back to original condition doing most of the work myself.

For what it's worth, that is my story and I am planning on keeping my Lexus just as long as I can. It has 168,000 on the odometer and I am hoping to get well over 300,000 so it is worth it to me to spend the money on it.

And one other thing, being in the automobile repair business all my life, I HATE spending money on automobiles. Automobiles are a bad investment, I would rather spend my money on real estate. But since we need some type of transportation, we have to spend money on cars.

I have found my 1991 Lexus LS 400 to be a keeper. And I ride in and work on all kinds of cars and I am not easily impressed by automobiles. Sure my LS has plenty of problems, but every car you get wears out, it doesn't matter what brand you get. I have found Lexus to be in the upper crust when it comes to durability and long lasting.

I am an I-CAR Gold Class Professional and I have been working on automobiles for 33 years. I know quality when I see it.

Jerry

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Jerry - Glad to see my thoughts and sentiments are echoed by someone of your knowledge and experience. I was going to send my speakers out, but based on your post, I will do them myself.

LS400Luver - I am reasonably certain that your car has many more miles ahead of her. My 1991 has 228K and is driven 100+ miles a day. For new tires, I would suggest looking at the Kumho Ecsta Platinum LX tires. They are at a good price (I got mine from the Tirerack) and are the proper V-rated spec; I have been very pleased with them. My instrument cluster was having illumination issues (needles flickering) with a sticky speedometer. I found a unit from a local Pick-a-Part for $20 that works perfectly. All I had to do was swap the mechanical odometer from my old one to the "new" one.

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Jerry - Glad to see my thoughts and sentiments are echoed by someone of your knowledge and experience. I was going to send my speakers out, but based on your post, I will do them myself.

Hi Jeff,

Glad I could help. Changing the surround foam is fairly easy. You shouldn't have any problem. The instructions that come with it are very straightforward with pictures. Good luck.

Jerry

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Jerry - Glad to see my thoughts and sentiments are echoed by someone of your knowledge and experience. I was going to send my speakers out, but based on your post, I will do them myself.

Hi Jeff,

Glad I could help. Changing the surround foam is fairly easy. You shouldn't have any problem. The instructions that come with it are very straightforward with pictures. Good luck.

Jerry

Hey, thanks everyone for all the good info, and I couldn't believe the tire recommendation! I just ordered them last week from Tire Rack -- after doing research both here and in other places on the web. A friend of mine also put 4 on his 1992 LS about 6 months ago and loves them. They were shipped to a local garage here and are going to be installed on Friday.

Got the Black Beauty back today. All leaks were repaired and she got a good wash after it was all over, to get all the old oil off.

Yes, I have decided to keep her.

But here's the ironic part.

I guess she's trying to test my will.

Got in her tonight to run an errand and....the speedometer is not registering the proper speed. About 15 miles too slow.

Arrrrggghh.

Three years ago, after a new a/c compressor was installed, my water temp and tach died. They semi-worked if I beat on the cluster casing (I know, you have all been here), but finally they got to the point where they didn't move at all. But the speedo and fuel gauge have continued to work just fine. And everything lights up.

Until now.

Given that all the lights still work, but now I have two gauges that don't register at all, and a speedo that is not registering properly, I guess it's time for the cluster repair? Or is the cluster replacement and/or repair only for restoration of the lights?

Sigh.

At least I've already gone through the power steering pump phase. :P

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Hi LS400Luver,

If it is just the surround foam on your speakers that went sour, you can order new surround foams and replace them yourself. I just repaired my subwoofer located on the packing shelf. It was fairly easy. Sounds good as new.

Contact Simply Speakers:

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/

1-800-511-3343

(Ask for Tom, he sounded like he really knew his stuff.)

And tell them what size speakers you have. The rear subwoofer is an 8 inch Pioneer and the part number is:

FS-8

It comes with directions, pictures, glue an everything you need to change the foam. It was $21.95 with the shipping.

The subwoofer has a special metal frame to fit the packing shelf. It would be kind of tough to find a replacement.

Sounds like the New Orleans dealer gave you the runaround or they did not know what they were doing. The cam and crank seals should have been replaced when the timing belt and water pump were changed. I guess they did it that way so they could charge you twice for tearing the front of your engine down.

Concerning keeping the car, here is my story:

I came across my 91 LS 400 about 3-4 years ago. I do collision repair for a living and someone had wrecked their LS and I bought it from them for $1000.00. It was not in great shape but the price was right. I kept it all this time and tried my best not to put any money into it except for changing the oil, brakes and regular maintenance items because I did not know if I wanted to keep the car or not.

It has all of the problems of these older LS400's and I have put off doing any of the work. I kept telling myself, "Should I scrap the car or keep it?"

There were several things that made me decide to keep the car.

1. My boss has a friend that is a multi-millionaire and is in the investment business. He just paid several million dollars for his new home that he had built. This man can buy any new car that he wishes to buy and pay cash for it with no problems at all. Sure he has a new Mercedes but he also has a 1990 Lexus LS 400.

He prefers to ride around in the 20 year old Lexus over the brand new Mercedes. I asked him why and he says it is a better riding car. He says he takes his Mercedes to Vegas and places he needs to show status but he prefers to drive the Lexus. He has kept the maintenance up and has even had the seats reupholstered. He refuses to let it go.

2. My wife's friend had a brother who was a bigshot here in Baton Rouge Louisiana. He was a bigshot with The Shaw Group, a Fortune 500 company. They gave him a new company car every year or so to drive. He drove a Lexus for a few years and then they traded him up with a Mercedes. He complained about the Mercedes and told his company he wanted his Lexus back. He said it was a better car.

3. I got in an accident back in July and my work car, a Toyota Corolla was totaled. I rented a brand new 2009 Nissan Sentra for a few days. After driving in the Nissan, my wife and I both realized that our old raggedy Lexus, even with the suspension problems it had, drove better than the brand new Nissan Sentra.

I told my wife that we would be hard pressed to find a better riding car than our Lexus. So I decided not only to keep the car, but to fully restore it back to factory condition. I have full intentions on spending several thousand dollars to restore it back to original condition doing most of the work myself.

For what it's worth, that is my story and I am planning on keeping my Lexus just as long as I can. It has 168,000 on the odometer and I am hoping to get well over 300,000 so it is worth it to me to spend the money on it.

And one other thing, being in the automobile repair business all my life, I HATE spending money on automobiles. Automobiles are a bad investment, I would rather spend my money on real estate. But since we need some type of transportation, we have to spend money on cars.

I have found my 1991 Lexus LS 400 to be a keeper. And I ride in and work on all kinds of cars and I am not easily impressed by automobiles. Sure my LS has plenty of problems, but every car you get wears out, it doesn't matter what brand you get. I have found Lexus to be in the upper crust when it comes to durability and long lasting.

I am an I-CAR Gold Class Professional and I have been working on automobiles for 33 years. I know quality when I see it.

Jerry

Is my subwoofer a Pioneer if I have the Nakamichi head unit? I thought they were different. (I am just starting down this road in terms of speaker repair and/or replacement, so forgive my ignorance.)

As for your other comments, I second them. I drive different rental cars all the time when I travel on business, some of which are high enders, and I have yet to drive anything that rides better. Or just feels as solid. I've always contended that the reason I haven't sold this one is because I have yet to find another car that I like better.

Then again, a good friend of mine has an Audi TT Quattro convertible. That is one hell of a great car to "drive." But definitely the classic "specialty" ride. Only good for short and intense doses. :lol:

-Holly

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Hi LS400Luver,

If it is just the surround foam on your speakers that went sour, you can order new surround foams and replace them yourself. I just repaired my subwoofer located on the packing shelf. It was fairly easy. Sounds good as new.

Contact Simply Speakers:

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/

1-800-511-3343

(Ask for Tom, he sounded like he really knew his stuff.)

And tell them what size speakers you have. The rear subwoofer is an 8 inch Pioneer and the part number is:

FS-8

It comes with directions, pictures, glue an everything you need to change the foam. It was $21.95 with the shipping.

The subwoofer has a special metal frame to fit the packing shelf. It would be kind of tough to find a replacement.

Sounds like the New Orleans dealer gave you the runaround or they did not know what they were doing. The cam and crank seals should have been replaced when the timing belt and water pump were changed. I guess they did it that way so they could charge you twice for tearing the front of your engine down.

Concerning keeping the car, here is my story:

I came across my 91 LS 400 about 3-4 years ago. I do collision repair for a living and someone had wrecked their LS and I bought it from them for $1000.00. It was not in great shape but the price was right. I kept it all this time and tried my best not to put any money into it except for changing the oil, brakes and regular maintenance items because I did not know if I wanted to keep the car or not.

It has all of the problems of these older LS400's and I have put off doing any of the work. I kept telling myself, "Should I scrap the car or keep it?"

There were several things that made me decide to keep the car.

1. My boss has a friend that is a multi-millionaire and is in the investment business. He just paid several million dollars for his new home that he had built. This man can buy any new car that he wishes to buy and pay cash for it with no problems at all. Sure he has a new Mercedes but he also has a 1990 Lexus LS 400.

He prefers to ride around in the 20 year old Lexus over the brand new Mercedes. I asked him why and he says it is a better riding car. He says he takes his Mercedes to Vegas and places he needs to show status but he prefers to drive the Lexus. He has kept the maintenance up and has even had the seats reupholstered. He refuses to let it go.

2. My wife's friend had a brother who was a bigshot here in Baton Rouge Louisiana. He was a bigshot with The Shaw Group, a Fortune 500 company. They gave him a new company car every year or so to drive. He drove a Lexus for a few years and then they traded him up with a Mercedes. He complained about the Mercedes and told his company he wanted his Lexus back. He said it was a better car.

3. I got in an accident back in July and my work car, a Toyota Corolla was totaled. I rented a brand new 2009 Nissan Sentra for a few days. After driving in the Nissan, my wife and I both realized that our old raggedy Lexus, even with the suspension problems it had, drove better than the brand new Nissan Sentra.

I told my wife that we would be hard pressed to find a better riding car than our Lexus. So I decided not only to keep the car, but to fully restore it back to factory condition. I have full intentions on spending several thousand dollars to restore it back to original condition doing most of the work myself.

For what it's worth, that is my story and I am planning on keeping my Lexus just as long as I can. It has 168,000 on the odometer and I am hoping to get well over 300,000 so it is worth it to me to spend the money on it.

And one other thing, being in the automobile repair business all my life, I HATE spending money on automobiles. Automobiles are a bad investment, I would rather spend my money on real estate. But since we need some type of transportation, we have to spend money on cars.

I have found my 1991 Lexus LS 400 to be a keeper. And I ride in and work on all kinds of cars and I am not easily impressed by automobiles. Sure my LS has plenty of problems, but every car you get wears out, it doesn't matter what brand you get. I have found Lexus to be in the upper crust when it comes to durability and long lasting.

I am an I-CAR Gold Class Professional and I have been working on automobiles for 33 years. I know quality when I see it.

Jerry

Is my subwoofer a Pioneer if I have the Nakamichi head unit? I thought they were different. (I am just starting down this road in terms of speaker repair and/or replacement, so forgive my ignorance.)

As for your other comments, I second them. I drive different rental cars all the time when I travel on business, some of which are high enders, and I have yet to drive anything that rides better. Or just feels as solid. I've always contended that the reason I haven't sold this one is because I have yet to find another car that I like better.

Then again, a good friend of mine has an Audi TT Quattro convertible. That is one hell of a great car to "drive." But definitely the classic "specialty" ride. Only good for short and intense doses. :lol:

-Holly

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Hi LS400Luver,

If it is just the surround foam on your speakers that went sour, you can order new surround foams and replace them yourself. I just repaired my subwoofer located on the packing shelf. It was fairly easy. Sounds good as new.

Contact Simply Speakers:

http://www.simplyspeakers.com/

1-800-511-3343

(Ask for Tom, he sounded like he really knew his stuff.)

And tell them what size speakers you have. The rear subwoofer is an 8 inch Pioneer and the part number is:

FS-8

It comes with directions, pictures, glue an everything you need to change the foam. It was $21.95 with the shipping.

The subwoofer has a special metal frame to fit the packing shelf. It would be kind of tough to find a replacement.

Sounds like the New Orleans dealer gave you the runaround or they did not know what they were doing. The cam and crank seals should have been replaced when the timing belt and water pump were changed. I guess they did it that way so they could charge you twice for tearing the front of your engine down.

Concerning keeping the car, here is my story:

I came across my 91 LS 400 about 3-4 years ago. I do collision repair for a living and someone had wrecked their LS and I bought it from them for $1000.00. It was not in great shape but the price was right. I kept it all this time and tried my best not to put any money into it except for changing the oil, brakes and regular maintenance items because I did not know if I wanted to keep the car or not.

It has all of the problems of these older LS400's and I have put off doing any of the work. I kept telling myself, "Should I scrap the car or keep it?"

There were several things that made me decide to keep the car.

1. My boss has a friend that is a multi-millionaire and is in the investment business. He just paid several million dollars for his new home that he had built. This man can buy any new car that he wishes to buy and pay cash for it with no problems at all. Sure he has a new Mercedes but he also has a 1990 Lexus LS 400.

He prefers to ride around in the 20 year old Lexus over the brand new Mercedes. I asked him why and he says it is a better riding car. He says he takes his Mercedes to Vegas and places he needs to show status but he prefers to drive the Lexus. He has kept the maintenance up and has even had the seats reupholstered. He refuses to let it go.

2. My wife's friend had a brother who was a bigshot here in Baton Rouge Louisiana. He was a bigshot with The Shaw Group, a Fortune 500 company. They gave him a new company car every year or so to drive. He drove a Lexus for a few years and then they traded him up with a Mercedes. He complained about the Mercedes and told his company he wanted his Lexus back. He said it was a better car.

3. I got in an accident back in July and my work car, a Toyota Corolla was totaled. I rented a brand new 2009 Nissan Sentra for a few days. After driving in the Nissan, my wife and I both realized that our old raggedy Lexus, even with the suspension problems it had, drove better than the brand new Nissan Sentra.

I told my wife that we would be hard pressed to find a better riding car than our Lexus. So I decided not only to keep the car, but to fully restore it back to factory condition. I have full intentions on spending several thousand dollars to restore it back to original condition doing most of the work myself.

For what it's worth, that is my story and I am planning on keeping my Lexus just as long as I can. It has 168,000 on the odometer and I am hoping to get well over 300,000 so it is worth it to me to spend the money on it.

And one other thing, being in the automobile repair business all my life, I HATE spending money on automobiles. Automobiles are a bad investment, I would rather spend my money on real estate. But since we need some type of transportation, we have to spend money on cars.

I have found my 1991 Lexus LS 400 to be a keeper. And I ride in and work on all kinds of cars and I am not easily impressed by automobiles. Sure my LS has plenty of problems, but every car you get wears out, it doesn't matter what brand you get. I have found Lexus to be in the upper crust when it comes to durability and long lasting.

I am an I-CAR Gold Class Professional and I have been working on automobiles for 33 years. I know quality when I see it.

Jerry

Is my subwoofer a Pioneer if I have the Nakamichi head unit? I thought they were different. (I am just starting down this road in terms of speaker repair and/or replacement, so forgive my ignorance.)

As for your other comments, I second them. I drive different rental cars all the time when I travel on business, some of which are high enders, and I have yet to drive anything that rides better. Or just feels as solid. I've always contended that the reason I haven't sold this one is because I have yet to find another car that I like better.

Then again, a good friend of mine has an Audi TT Quattro convertible. That is one hell of a great car to "drive." But definitely the classic "specialty" ride. Only good for short and intense doses. :lol:

-Holly

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Hi Holly,

If you open your trunk and look under the packing shelf you should be able to see the speaker. On mine I can barely make out the name "Pioneer".

Even if it is not Pioneer, the packing shelf was made to hold 1 size speaker so regardless of what brand it is, it should be an 8 inch speaker and you will need an 8 inch surround foam. I do not believe they made two different size subwoofers for that vehicle.

When I repaired mine I noticed that the metal frame of the speaker was specially made to fit the packing shelf, so just looking for another regular speaker is not going to work. It will have to be one made for that vehicle or be modified. Best thing to do is repair the old one.

Jerry

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