Better Luck Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Bought my 400h in November. It was a Lexus Certified Pre-owned 2008 with about six thousand miles on the odometer. I did a Carfax report on it before buying it. I took the report to the dealership and asked about each entry of which there were five or six. All of the items were body shop related and were explains away as minor including one that was noted as frame work. The others were related to painting and ding removal "In order for the vehicle to be certified". With the economy as it is and my line of work taking a beating, I decided that maybe the high payment was not prudent and I should downsize. I went onto KBB and Edmunds to find out what my car would fetch on a trade-in. Both sites came up with about 38 thousand. I took the car over to Carmax and had an appraial done where much to my dis ay they valued it at 28 thousand saying it had been in a severe enough collision to require the frame to have been welded. The appraiser took the time to show me exactly where the work was done and how to see the differnce between the factory welds to the rear quarter panel welds Vs the welds on the side that was worked on. Needless to say I was very upset and immediately drove over to the Lexus dealer located near Washington DC and showed the sales manager what I had discovered. I could not have gotten a worse reaction from the guy and was told I had no idea about what I was talking about and what did I expect him to do. I am in customer service and I certainly know enough not to antagonize someone who you are trying to get a result from but this guy went over the top. Within three minutes he offered to buy me out of the car for 35 thousand. I was shocked to get to a number so quickly. I said that was absolutely unacceptable and he walked out of his office more annoyed than before and came back with his last offer of 36500. Which again I declined sighting that I paid nearly 43 thousand. And that this vehicle should never made it through the CPO program. The end result is that they gave me what I owed on it which was about 37500. And they said that if I wanted to buy another used car from them, I could get it at wholesale. Does anyone out there know about CPO more than what the Lexus website says about the program which says that the faintest of odors or the smallest rattle would disqualify a car from passing inspection. But major body work (welding) would not? Has the world gone mad or are my expectations out of line? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX400h Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think that dealership was out of line for trying to pull the wool over your eyes. That's kind of like selling a house that had major flood damage and never telling the prospective buyers. You were certainly right in getting upset. Sometimes that's the only way to get results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 My guess is that the dealer didn't know the damage was that severe. Dealers get some of the cars directly off leases, but most come from auctions- where who knows what has happened to it. Granted they should have inspected it better, they probably just assumed it was ok with such little mileage. If they knew the real damage, they would have never certified it. They would have nothing to gain certifying a car with such major damage. Also, i believe to be certified it can have no more than 3 body panels with paint work, the bumpers not included. They check every 1/4 panel, hood and door for paint work (with with one of those depth testers). If your car only had the front bumper worked on (which doesn't apply), the hood and both front 1/4 panels, it still qualifies for a cpo. It's up to the dealer to check below for frame work, which they missed for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Jim Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 If they knew the real damage, they would have never certified it. They would have nothing to gain certifying a car with such major damage. Except for an extra ten thousand dollars! I fear that as the economy drops so does honesty and integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 If they knew the vehicle had that damage, they never would have purchased it from auction. It is possible they discovered it only after they bought it, and still decided to put it on the lot- but somehow i don't believe that either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Of course they knew. If Carmax could figure it out...they could have when they did the CPO inspection. If they didn't know then they didn't do the CPO inspection which is equally as bad. The whole point of paying extra for the CPO is that they know...in fact now you get a free Carfax for the CPO and its guaranteed to be clean! Frame work IMMEDIATELY disqualifies it for CPO as per Lexus' guidelines. Was this Pohanka Lexus? However, you have learned a valuable lesson. Don't let the party who is going to make the sale explain away carfax problems, have the car looked at by an independent party before you buy. I'm pretty surprised that you let them explain away frame damage on the Carfax...yikes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Luck Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 This was not Pohanka but Lindsay of Alexandria. This vehicle was originally sold by Lindsay since I was given the original window sticker. I doubt the car went to auction and the dealer bought it back. I think it was traded in or it may have been a loaner. Not certain. The body work was done by the dealership I bought it from. They knew about the "Frame work" since there was an entry in their system regarding the body shop work including reference to frame work. When I mentioned that point to the disagreeable gentleman named Ace, he tried to play semantics with me and said that frame work is not the same as frame repair. I called it one or the other I can't recall which at this point but he was quick to point out that they were VERY different terms. I tried to say that if 3-4 linear feet of the frame around the door was worked on, I would hardly think it should have been a candidate for CPO and of course he disagreed with me. I am now afraid to take the vehicle I bought from them to replace the Lexus to Carmax! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Really?!? Wow I am really surprised. My dad bought his 98 LS at Lindsay back in the day and he serviced it there many times and I've serviced my ES there too. I've always been very pleased with them. Pohanka on the other hand is a different story, and for some reason all their CPO cars look rough... You bought another car from them after your experience?!? You're kidding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Luck Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 I did research on the Highlander I was buying, no accidents or body work done. They gave me a below wholesale price which made up the difference for what I paid for the Lexus vs. what they gave me to return it which was what I owed. I put down about 5K on it and was walking away from that equity if I didn't take advantage of the wholesale price offer. I can't walk away from 5k that easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 You are worrying me, Better Luck. I just bought a CPO 2007 400h, which is also my first Lexus, from Lindsay. Carfax report was clean, and like yours, the car was originally sold by Lindsay and then repurchased by them a couple of years later. Here's hoping I have a better experience And hello all--am new to the forums. A wealth of information here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Luck Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 Angus, if you want to put your mind at ease take your vehicle to the nearest Carmax location and have it appraised. There is no charge for the service. I was very impressed with the new Woodbridge location off of Prince William Pkwy. Very nice and informative and no obligation to buy from them or sell it to them although it was my intent to trade it in to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 How do you like the Highlander vs the RX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Better Luck, thanks for the suggestion--I'll do that. I am happy with the CPO warranty package and the price, but would rather know sooner than later if there is undisclosed repaired bodywork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Luck Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 How do you like the Highlander vs the RX? Not as luxurious but actually a more commanding view of the road. Liked the telescopic wheel on RX and the power lift gate. Stereo was better too. I think the Highlander handles better though. A tad more truck like in the suspension tuning. Overall it will be fine I am sure. Glad I found out about the body work before it was too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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