The "final" Subwoofer Replacement Question?

mikee72 · March 22, 2004

It has been said that one test is worth 1000 expert opinions, and people who have spent big money to improve their sound system tend to "hear" a big improvement whether it's real or not. What is really needed here is an accurate picture of the response curve of the stock sub and one of an aftermarket sub at different frequencies. I'd be willing to send a test CD of sine waves to anyone with an SC who has replaced their sub and is willing to test response with a dB meter.

SPORTcoupe300 · March 23, 2004

I've got the sine waves.

Send me a dB meter and I'll send you a lot more than one graph. :D

Seriously though, do you expect there not to be as much of a difference as we "think" there is?

I know for a fact that my music sounds fuller, deeper, and a bit louder.

Before I got the sub, no-one ever said anything about my stereo, and now I've had many compliments on how my "stock" stereo sounds.

mikee72 · March 23, 2004

Apparently my post wasn't clear in that I was referring to people who have replaced their stock sub speaker with an aftermarket one in the stock location, not whether or not a larger driver in a trunk-consuming box will produce more bass. That's obviously a no-brainer, but some of us aren't willing to live with a box in their already too small trunk.

SPORTcoupe300 · March 23, 2004

Ok. And now I'm trying to figure out how you decided that I wasn't one of the people that was saving trunk space. :huh:

I've replaced the stock 10" twice now.....first time I did a half assed job with the obviously wrong sub....sounded ok but rattled a bit and looked like *BLEEP* (brakelight had to be lifted)

Then I redid the whole job with a rockford 10" that fit freakin PERFECTLY and powered it by a Rockford 300 watt amp.

Sounds really clean and surprisingly deep for a free-air setup.

If you're interested, I can get you the model # of the sub but Rockford has updated their lineup and discontinued that model so it would be a !Removed! to find.

edit: I think I found the new equivalent of the sub I used:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/ez...ch%20Subwoofers

Great thing about it is it's small mounting depth (gotta clear that gas tank).

ChicagoLexus · March 23, 2004

SPORTcoupe300, what model amp are you running the sub with. Also, is it obvious that you have upgraded the sub outside the car (rattles, etc)? I am interested in this same setup.

SPORTcoupe300 · March 24, 2004

I'm running the older version of the Punch P3002

There are no rattles outside the car but if the windows are rolled down, you can hear a slight increase in bass.

Surprisingly, the increase in bass is mostly heard in front of the car (I'd expect it to be louder near the trunk) which I'm guessing is due to the fact that the bass reflects off the back window and bounces forward.

It's a great setup.....I don't think I could be happier.

ChicagoLexus · March 24, 2004

sounds good, do our brake light covers pop off with a screwdriver or is there more to it? i don't wanna go breaking anything....

SPORTcoupe300 · March 24, 2004

The part closest to you is held by 2 clips.

Just lift up and they should pop out (one of mine broke but I dodn't know if it was preventable)

Then the whole thing slides out toward you.

Don't pull too hard because the wire for the light might be very short.

There's a disconnect clip so that you can put the 3rd brakelight away while working.

Good luck and let me know if you run into any issues.

southernsc300 · March 24, 2004

if you roll down your windows and open your sunroof it reduces alot of sound cancelation. also the best point in your car for sound is by your head unit, its usually that way on all cars except for hatchs.

ChicagoLexus · March 25, 2004

:ph34r: I've been searching the net and found the Rockford Fosgate amp Punch 301s for 112.00. I can't find the RFP3410 sub but I found the RFP4410 HE 10" for 58.00. Does anyone know how similar the 3410 and 4410 are and what exactly are the differences? Also are these prices decent?

Thanks !

Theodore · March 25, 2004

Okay Heres my expert advice.

Ive installed hundreds of car stereo systems and worked for a professional company.

The only FREE Air Sub in the Market that is in a normal price range is the pioneer TSW-#### There might be afew more but this is the problem over sixed magnets.

As for the RFZ-2412 It is the lowest quality Rockford Fosgate. I have a friend who used to go through RFZ subs once a month.

Another reason is magnet clearence. Alot of subs have larger magnets and will not sit properly.

As for preamped subs those are designed for hatchbacks, Pickups, etc. If u do get a Bazooka for example it will only be amplified by its own 80 watt sub. Not gonna sound as good.

You want bass bass eguals quality. Put a box in the trunk i recomend the Alpine 10 or 12inch TYPE R dual voice coil with an MRDM500 Alpine Amp.

Now depending on how much bass u want is were u go the correct this is a box with and external amp.

If u want very little bass u can do a bazooka tube preamped.

Or if u want crappy bass response try to find a free air that will not interfear with the gas tank. and then u will have to purchase a weak amp to support this.

You make the decision. No body wants to lose trunk space, But if ur gonna upgrade ur gonna do it the right way. no point in wasting money if ur not gonan do it right.

mikee72 · March 25, 2004

Theodore, couldn't I essentially do the same thing by enclosing the area underneath the rear deck and making a sealed compartment for a bass-reflex 10"? I mean, you only need ~1cu ft for a typical 10", correct?

SPORTcoupe300 · March 26, 2004

Mikee: I'f you've seen the space underneath the sub, you must surely know that making something to fit there would be a big pain in the !Removed!.

The rockford in my car has been working flawlessly for over 3 months now so I'm not quite sure where you get your info.

Where did you get RFZ-2412 from anyways?

Chicago: I'm not sure on the difference between those 2 models.

The great thing about the 3410 is that it's got a mounting depth of just over 5.5 inches, allowing it to clear the gas tank.

The new RF sub I linked to in the previous post also has a proper mounting depth, and should therefore work.

EDIT: Just found a set of 2 3410 subs on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=2468800642

You can buy the 2 and sell 1 to a fellow SC owner. :D

Another:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=39774

And Another:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=39774

You get the picture.

They're out there.

mikee72 · March 26, 2004

Ok. And now I'm trying to figure out how you decided that I wasn't one of the people that was saving trunk space.
I've replaced the stock 10" twice now.....first time I did a half assed job with the obviously wrong sub....sounded ok but rattled a bit and looked like *BLEEP* (brakelight had to be lifted)

Then I redid the whole job with a rockford 10" that fit freakin PERFECTLY and powered it by a Rockford 300 watt amp.

Sounds really clean and surprisingly deep for a free-air setup.

If you're interested, I can get you the model # of the sub but Rockford has updated their lineup and discontinued that model so it would be a !Removed! to find.

edit: I think I found the new equivalent of the sub I used:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/ez...ch%20Subwoofers

Great thing about it is it's small mounting depth (gotta clear that gas tank).

Sport, I was thinking that you were the one who did the box with the 12", when it was actually southernsc300.

It sounds like you've done exactly what I want to do, and if the difference is dramatic enough to hear, I guess there's no point in doing back-to-back tests. Thanks for the all of the info.

southernsc300 · March 26, 2004

one 12" sub in the rear gives more boom than any 10" replacement ever will. but im starting to want two 12"s now because its not loud enough for me on the highway when the windows are down.

ChicagoLexus · March 30, 2004

Ok i think i'm goin to copy SPORTS's setup with a Punch 301s amp pushin 300watts and a rfp4410 sub. I chose this because it will fit in the stock 10" opening and pick up the audio a bit. Now I have never installed any car audio before except for a in dash unit in a previous car. Is it complicated. Would someone mind giving directions on how to do your own install or would it be easier to go to a local shop? Is all that I need an amp wiring kit and if so what gauge?? Please Help!

Thanks!

SPORTcoupe300 · March 30, 2004

Hey Chicago,

Glad all my writing has inspired someone.

I would advise against the RFP4410 for 2 reasons:

1) Neither the RFP4410 or the RFZ3410 are designed for free-air, but the RFZ is closer suited for our setup.

2) The RFP4410 has a mounting depth of 5.75 inches while the RFZ3410 is 4.7 inches. (You'll be surprised at how much of a difference 1 inch can make ;) )

If you have and know how to use a multimiter, I'd be glad to get on the horn with you and walk you through it.

On the other hand, if you don't know what a multimeter is, I'd reccomend you take it to a well acclaimed shop near you and have them do it.

They shouldn't charge too much since the setup should be straight forward.

Lemme know if I can help you with anything else.

P.S. Either way you go, 10 gauge should be plenty.

The amp sucks a maximum of 15 amps so larger gauge is not required.

ChicagoLexus · March 30, 2004

SPORT i thought you had a rfp3410 not rfz (based on your url) thanks for all the info!

SPORTcoupe300 · March 30, 2004

Hmm.....which link?

If I posted the wrong link somewhere, my bad.

My model is the RFZ3410 which was discontinued in 2003 with the arrival of their new lineup.

They have a similar sub now (P110S4) which has a mounting depth of 5.2 inches but I can't guarantee perfect fit because my RFZ barely cleared the opening in the rear deck. I actually had to bend back the terminals on the sub to get it to go down.

You can still find the RFZ3410s on eBay and prolly in few shops. (Should be discounted. If not, mention that they're discontinued and you should get a little discount.)

Just make sure you get a 4 Ohm sub because that amp bridges to 300 watts @ 4 Ohms.

When I got mine, they accidentally gave me the 8 Ohm sub and I didn't catch the mistake until I got home.

Smartazz91 · March 30, 2004

Regarding the RFZ3410's. Best Buy has them on clearance for $39.99 each. At least they did 2 weeks ago when I got a pair. Like SportCoupe300 said, be careful not to get the 8 ohm sub. It is the 3810 & they use the same box. Only the label/sticker on the box distinguishes it. Also, try calling Crutchfield. They may be selling them cheap. I've got a related question. First, It's difficult to find a shop with installers who truly know the car. They all want to experiment on my ride. I don't care for speculation when it comes to working on my vehicle. I've been told that everything, from the cd changer to the power antenna is controlled by the head unit through the stock amp. Is this true? That means that my after-market amp could & should go after the stocker? I have no problem with that. I just need accurrate info.

Thanks

`93 SC300 5sp, 225k miles & counting

SPORTcoupe300 · March 30, 2004

SmartAzz: My amp receives the signal directly from the wires that used to power the stock 10"

Other than that, the amp is absolutely independent of the rest of the stereo system.

(Actually, the remote turn-on wire is also integrated but that I leave up to you. Some people like the amp to turn on with ignition, others with the radio. I prefer a separate switch so I can listen to the music while the car is off without killing the battery.)

I think I wrote about this before, but I'm too lazy to look it up:

I tried the Hi-Low converter and used RCA inputs for the amp.

There was a lot of engine noise and a ground loop isolator didn't help.

So then I tried wiring the wires that came to the old sub, right to the amp's high-level inputs and it sounds clean and clear.

ChicagoLexus · March 31, 2004

SPORT

what would happen if I popped in the rfz3410 and ran that off the stock system for a while? Any idea if there would be an ohm conflict?? Just curious... :-)

SPORTcoupe300 · March 31, 2004

Hmmmm....*runs up to the attic to check*

.

The stock 10" is a 1 Ohm so I wouldn't reccomend it.

Just wait for your amp.

If you think the sound will improve with just the sub, it won't.

Because of the difference in resistance, it will probably sound even quieter.

mikee72 · March 31, 2004

Along those same lines, doesn't the new sub play lower regardless of power? I realize that running a 2ohm load vs. a 1ohm load will be 3dB quieter overall, but wouldn't the response curve be more linear? I'd give up some "hi" bass for a lower range capability. I'm not sure I want to go with a second amp, unless someone has a wiring harness that allows be not to have to cut into the factory harnesses.

southernsc300 · March 31, 2004

if you run the 1ohm amp to a 2ohm sub you will most likely burn the amp up and not be able to play it at all. a new sub will hit lower (around 5-7hz) with out distortion, that is unless it has a foam lip.