Buyer's Preference: Sc 300 Or 400?

[openingact]

I admire both the design and quality of 400 and 300 tremendously, and I feel each, including the 5-speed 300, are great cars. I know the performance numbers on all of them, thanks to this site and the links.

Current owners: After having one of your own, which stock SC would you recommend? I wanted real recommendations from actual experience with the quality of hindsite. I am looking at all 3 models, and have located at least one fine example of each: exceptionally nice 96 and newer SC 400, 300 and the 300 5-speed.

Thank you very much for your respected and candid viewpoints.

[AWJ]

I suppose the answer lies in your goal. Quality daily driver with no to mild mofification? SC400. Virtually limitless modification (performance wise = horsepower) and a real spanker on the street or track - SC300.

You really can't go wrong with either SC. From my experience and hindsight - SC300 5 speed all the way. Good mileage, quality performance and fun. The SC400 can offer the same - so if you don't care about ease of engine modification, go for the one in the best condition that suits your liking most. Automatics can be nicer in traffic. Manual can be better off the line and offer max rev potential (if the driver is decent). With either 300 or 400 auto there are a few easy changes that will help with the hole shot.

SC400's have a power steering pump over the alternator. They seem to give out in tandem. The SC300 has a water pump over the alternator - same situation. (Or is it the water pump on both models?) Whatever. The SC300 engine is a little easier to work on. For example, if the starter goes - the 2jz-GE starter is much easier to acces than the 1UZ-FE.

With both models, there is the potential for some electrical nuances. So a newer model may delay any of those issues. That might rule out a 5 speed. But in the end, most issues can be dealt with quite easily by almost anyone with average technical ability.

Good luck. Did that help?

Maybe someone else should answer <_<

[Matthew_McNally]

Now thats what I call a quality answer!

thanks AJ! ;)

[openingact]

That answer helped very much. Now, I've complicated the picture myself with a exceptional MR2 Turbo from an original owner who's ordering a G-35.

I thought I had this all worked out and a local, low milage 93 MR2 showed up. This is not helping to make my decision easy. Pure 2-seater sports car or larger luxury sports coupe? I can't garage 3 vehicles (small P/U, too).

The crossroads heads off into 2 very fine directions. Any 93-95 MR2 Turbo thoughts? I know they're rare, and may not find a owner/prior owner on this Lexus SC board. Someone who's owned both could really be helpful about now.

[AWJ]

A genII MR2 eh? Well, that is a completely different animal. Mid engine, rear wheel drive - turbo. I woud buy both and leave the pickup truck outside.

MR2's are easily track worthy. Capable of approximately 300hp with a good turbo and controls on a 3sgte. But that takes $$$ and to go over 300-350hp requires internal modification. But they are cool cars.

A SC300 obviously is going to weigh more. But for approximately the same amount of money can be turboed too. And it can make 400 to 500 hp before internal modification. And after modification it can make up to 1000hp like my boy Ethan Banks. OF course that cost mucho dinero. The SC300 is going to be harder to handle. Both cars are equally rare in the respective state you are referring to. But a turbo SC300 is much more rare and if done right, will last forever or until it is crashed.

It's your call. I have thought about those cars a couple times too, but nothing beats a turbo Lexus in cool points and but kickin points. To have them both would be the best of two worlds. Sounds like your leaning towards the MR2 though and that is not bad. But you won't be able to flex like the guys with a turbo SC300 ;)

It's your money, your choice and ultimately, your car - sounds like you've got a winner there. It could potentially be very hard to find a SC300 in the state you would want to go turbo form (you can always save money that way and repair items). It will probably will cost more money to do so with a excellent condition, low miles JZZ31. They can be turboed at any point though and new motors are not hard to come by.

[zeta]

like AWJ said, it's your choice, since it's your hard earned money, and the car you want to drive.

the SC is a larger car (i think). from what i remember it's quite longer than the gen2 MR2.

those MR2's are really nice though, and finding a low mileage one is even harder, because of their age.

Lexus carries more luxury along with its name, which would be more comfortable, and the 2JZ-GE engine is quite amazing, though it has weaker internals.

but they are both toyota cars. both will last you for many years to come...

[AWJ]

the 2JZ-GE engine is quite amazing, though it has weaker internals

!Blasphemy!

Don't make me come out to Texas. ;)

Zeta - the 2JZ-GE is one of the strongest motors ever made. It has 7 four bolt mains where most V8's have 5. It has forged rods, resin coated drop forged pistons, a forged steel crank, a two piece rigid oil sump, and oil jets in the rods - all of this from the factory. It can handle more horsepower in stock form than any other motor I can think of. In fact, the only difference between it and the Supra TT motor (2JZ-GTE) is the oil jets for the pistons, the compression on the pistons and the head. The GE is one of the best motors to ever come out from toyota - better than any mr2 3sgte, 3sge, 7mge or te, 4age, on and on. <_<

The toyota in line 6 is the most overbuilt, underated motor in history. Never say it has weaker internals compared to an mr2 or anything else because that is not true. B)

I'm not trying to boil any blood but I want it to be known that this motor is one of the best to ever be introduced by toyota and offered in a Lexus. :D

Now I need to go take a drive and tell my car you didn't mean it. I'll be sure to hit 18 psi and 60mph in 4 seconds just to assure her that no MR2 is gonna get the best of her.

[Jap Spec 300TT]

AWJ how do you think the 1jz compares to the 2JZ-GE ?

[AWJ]

Greatness - the 1JZ is equally impressive. B) Merely .5 liters less displacement; it is the smaller brother of the 2JZ-GTE. The predecessor of it's design. Equally competent and with the twins operating in parallel (as opposed to sequentially on the 2JZ) it will offer a lifetime of enjoyment as well. If taken care of well.

Zeta - the car forgives you. I think she went into the red a couple times too many though . After 110mph I had to wind her down . She was getting carried away ;) . We both feel better now though. :) Just givin ya a hard time ;)

[Matthew_McNally]

LOL!

sorry - waste of a post I know, but

just

LOL!

[zeta]

lol... no... AWJ...

i meant that i thought the 2JZ-GE had weaker internals than the 2JZ-GTE because the 2JZ-GTE was designed with stock turbo's. and it would need a stronger internal setup opposed to an N/A 2JZ-GE. i know they are stronger than the MR2 no doubt. i didn't mean any comparison on motors to the MR2 motor. the 2JZ is a beautifully built I-6. it has an abundance of potential and can do many things.

but i always thought the GE had weaker internals than the GTE.

but i may be wrong.

the 2JZ is a top-notch engine. no 6 cylinder engine can compare to the vast potential and power produced by that engine, i know. but i wasn't comparing it to the MR2. i know it doesn't even compare to the engine in the MR2.

just clearing things up.

[AWJ]

It's OK Z B)

Got kinda carried away there I think, Matt.

JDM SPEC - post pics and details when your ride arrives. Will you meet it at the boat?

[Jap Spec 300TT]

I can't believe you're asking me that :( I'm so disappointed in you. It's like will you be meeting your wife at the alter? Okay maybe not THAT bad but yes i will be, i've actually taken that week off from work so i can take care of everything, maybe even give it a new paint job if the colour is too faded that week and 'bring it out' on the friday B)

[AWJ]

Well there you have it. ;) Right on man.

[UCF3]

I wonder what OpeningAct is thinking, now that we're swaying him in the direction of an lovely Sc300? <_<

I think that MR2 is a good choice. The car is really stable on cornering, but I would definitely recommend a 5sp over the Auto, since you can't really control the car with the auto/autostick. Now if you could just put a TOM's or Denso MRS engine in it, and tightened the suspension just a tad, you'd be happy having a GT300 car.

[openingact]

As much as I would enjoy planning out modifications and driving a SC 300 5-speed, I'm leaning towards the SC 400. The reasons are very few, and mostly economic:

First, I'm building a home through this fall.

Second, the SC 400 V8 should be reliable, roadworthy and luxurious enough to really enjoy owning it for a long time. Later, a torque converter, BAB and custom exhaust may move it close to 300 RWHP at a very impressive total price for such premium quality. In a 4-seater sport coupe, that's a very acceptable, high performance ride in my book. Plus, as all Lexus SC's are, it's a beautiful and inspiring car. I found a exceptionally clean 96 black on tan SC 400 w/80K equipped with stock chromes and a Nakamichi for 11K (lost his job and simply wants the loan payed off now). I looked everywhere and that appears to be a really good price for a stock 400, and resellable to a large market without a big loss. I heard the variable valve control on 97 and newer has to have regular oil changes to avoid oil deposit sludge build-up...with a 96, I can feel a little safer without paying the certified Lexus price at a dealer.

And third, I may keep an eye out for a exceptional Supra TT 93-95 with a OBD Type I. They can be safely and easily modified to +/- 450HP for a few hundred. I missed the best deal I've seen in months from a domestic new car dealer asking only retail (about 14,500) for a 94 gray 6-speed TT trade-in (very rare deal, stating "we only ask bluebook for other manufactuer's trade-in's"). It was sold in 3-5 days.

I test drove a new 95 Supra TT... rolling start from 20-100 mph + floored to redline shifts then flooring the ABS to feel it track perfectly straight and off immediately again to 100 shifting from 3rd into 4th...the salesman disappeared immediately somewhere when we arrived back at the showroom (maybe it was his time to get off? ). I've admired the TT tremendously ever since.

Plus, I have a feeling Toyota may not be able to hold out much longer. To recapture the high performance market, they need a new sports car to run away from the Z, G35, BMW's M series, and compete with a mid-high end Porshe and Corvette in the 30's price range. Toyota/Lexus is capable of producing awesome machines. Some "gentleman's industry agreement" limited Japan's stock HP output at 300 or below for years. I heard they may break that agreement, and read about a 400hp gas/electric japanese hybrid with 40 mpg in Autoweek a couple months ago. It may have been supercharged..I'm dreaming of a rear-mid engine, 400 hp 4-wheel drive, aerodynamically correct lightweight hybrid lightly modified around 500 hp. For now, nothing that I know of comes close to the price of a Lexus SC 300/400 experience in appearance, quality and pure driving enjoyment. A good Supra TT is twice the price.

I thoroughly enjoy reading the high quality posts here. Apologize for the long reply.

[Nomad]

When I get back to okinawa AW, I really need to get down and dirty with you on those "simple mods" for my soarer B)

[openingact]

:P Everyone, thanks for all your assistance. I purchased the black 96 SC 400 yesterday. Considering the overall mass and weight of that car, it is a fabulous sport's coupe. What a feeling. Now, almost all other cars on the road appear unrefined and ordinary. I didn't dream it would have that strong of a impression on me.

"Simple mods" on a Soarer... From a pure engineering perspective, you sound like you can temper higher performance with matched reliablility. If I had the skills and experience, I'd do a major number on my 400. For now, I need to get a service manual CD off EBAY to become aquainted better with the car.

Anyone know the stock wheel lug lbs torque pressure? ;)

[AWJ]

Openingact: welcome to the joys of owning an SC! Congratulations. 14.5k for a supratt - somebody slap me. Feel free to be as long winded as you like, by the way. B)

You won't be banned for it.

Nomad: OK

[borris]

I'm blasting this one from the past as well. Call it a habit of mine, but instead of starting a new thread that has already been done several times, I work my way from the back of the forum to make sure there isnt anything I have missed. Still waay in the back, but I'll get to the front soon enough. I've got an intro in the main newbie page, but will probably repost here is thats where it belongs.

Now, a buddy of mine has a 95 mk IV and we've been going back and fourth about what he was planning on doing with his engine... as its a stock n/a. He swears that the the GTE is far superior due to the stock turbo config as noted above. Knowing that forged is the way to go with turbo when trying for max hp he was saying that it would be far too expensive to replace all parts when he can just get a used GTE and retune. At this point there are no real complaints from my side of the fence as he wants to give me his setup for my newly acquired sc300. However he is a good friend of mine so if I can spare him some overkill I will do it in a heartbeat. Just to have you reiterate... AWJ, the GE and GTE are identical outside of the oil jets in the rods, the compression of the pistons, and the head? And what is different about the head as well? is it the cams or are we going into springs and clearances?

Boris