New Times A'comin'?

[IS400]

Unless you are a mechanic or willing to buy a shop manual and learn how to repair cars, I would not recommend an older Lexus to anyone. Imagine what a used LS 460Lis going to be like to repair in 20 years! OMG!

Blacked out auto-park screen, executive lounge seat stuck in full extend, computer screen start up menu on dash defaults to japanese...

The same thing with the LS400, it was bleeding edge tech in its day and is not going to be like a F-150 or Grand Am to repair on your own.

Here in Michigan all my friends are in the auto industry. Drunk by noon on the job (buzzed at least) and rush as fast as they can to get their quotas done to be off by 1 pm and go fishing.

Stop the line for a defect in a car/truck? Ha! Get a beating in the parking lot for that one!

I'll take a Japanese ASSEMBLED car anyday after the stories I've heard and scenes I've witnessed.

Part won't fit? Bigger hammer buddy! We've got forty more doors to assemble and we are off all off for the weekend at 11:30 am!

Whoo hoo! Buy domestic!

[TexasLexus94]

Intellivised made some very interesting comments regarding keeping an old Lexus. And I agree with him on most of his comments. One thought I have is that old cars have to be affected by their location. I've been in Laramie, WY in the dead of Winter, and remember not being able to open the drivers door because of the wind, and having to slide across the front seat to get out. Years of wild weather have to affect longevity, I think.

I live in Vegas, so the only detriment to a car is the sun and drunk drivers. So I'm still mixed about the clunkers bill. It hasn't passed yet, so let's see what happens.

[intellivised]

Intellivised made some very interesting comments regarding keeping an old Lexus. And I agree with him on most of his comments. One thought I have is that old cars have to be affected by their location. I've been in Laramie, WY in the dead of Winter, and remember not being able to open the drivers door because of the wind, and having to slide across the front seat to get out. Years of wild weather have to affect longevity, I think.

I live in Vegas, so the only detriment to a car is the sun and drunk drivers. So I'm still mixed about the clunkers bill. It hasn't passed yet, so let's see what happens.

My car has *definitely* been effected by location. It was a Michigan car before it was a Wyoming car. All the crud that they put on the roads in winter on top the bombed out near gravel quality of urban Lansing and Detroit roads... it had an effect. And I'd willing to bet the severe temp. fluctuations are what did in the seals on my PS pump. And what will kill the new one. Every day I drive the mile or two into work and think... its time. I've started a down payment fund.

[TexasLexus94]

Well, the Cash for Clunkers bill has gone to Obama for his signature. It says it is for cars that get 18 mpg or less, and I went back to the official government page, and my 94LS is still listed at 18 mpg. So it might be fun to go into a dealers showroom, haggle on a smaller car, and then, only then, pull the Clunkers deal. Fun, fun, fun. Looking at the Nissan Cube. 15 Grand or so. Less the Clunkers discount. Will look great in the garage next to my Mazda MX-5 Turbo. Some people never grow up...

[intellivised]

I just went on a test drive binge this weekend. I got behind the wheel of a lot of cars. I've gotten wheel time in 8 cars now. The great thing about living in the foothills of the rocky mountains? There are some GREAT roads for getting to know a car. Fort Collins is great - big city/lots of traffic driving, a major interstate AND mountain roads that wind their way up over the Front Range and Medicine Bows. Cash for clunkers is really really tempting. I love my Lexus but while I was waiting for my sway bar bushing upgrade to get done I walked over to the Toyota/Scion dealership and checked out a tC and had a really great test drive. I also had some great wheel time behind a VW Rabbit. The VW had some features that I really liked (big one is stability control, a lifesaver on a snowy night in the mountains!) that just aren't offered on the Scion, but the Scion had it beat in looks and upgrades department. Either way... might be time to send the old girl in.

[nc211]

I would also check out the Mazda 3's, if you're in that category of the car segment. I can attest that we loved our 07' 3-GT, it was an absolute blast to drive, and was very comfortable for cruising and such. They're built on a Volvo frame, which really shows well in the ride. I would have kept it when we moved to Chicago if it had not been for the overly HORRIBLE roads here that were just too much for my 36 year old back to take. If you live in an area of decent roads, and get that itch to remind yourself how fun driving can be, then I'd certainly recommend the 3. But, I would not recommend it if you live in a northern part of the country that uses a lot of road salt. Several other owners on the mazda3 forum from areas like Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, etc, reported rust showing up on the fenders and taillight areas, quickly. If you don't have that problem, then they're great little cars! Back in Carolina, my old commute used to be a 20 mile stretch of back country road full of horse farms and family McMansions, on my way to and from Chapel Hill. I can't recall a day that I didn't wake up in the morning and looked forward to driving into the office in that car! Here in Chicago, 17' low profile wheels, ain't the ticket.

As much of a Lexus fan as I am, and I know there are several folks on here with the series 1 LS that they simply love, with great reasons too, but one can't ignore the fact that they're at least 15 years old now. Cars today are made very differently in general then the way they were made back then. Granted, the LS is probably the best car made, but the new stuff from all manufacturers is pretty tough to ignore, when you're driving a 15 year old car. New bells and whistles, new technologies, new techniques. Not saying the 90-94 LS400's are bad, by any means, they're not. They're perfect, but, well you know what I'm trying to say. If you have the mean$, and the itch, then I'm all for the change. Especially now, with prices low, interest rates low, and massive incentives to get you to buy something in general. I'm telling you folks, this is a unique time to be a consumer, one that we'll probably not see again for at least a decade or two (hopefully).

[TexasLexus94]

Hey, Intellivised. My niece lives in Fort Collins. She graduated Colo State last year. She was going through some woman's crap when she was a Junior, so I pulled up in 2007 with a rental car. Except it wasn't a rental car, it was her brand new Hyundai Tucson. V-6, 4 WD. She almost died on the spot.

My point is that she calls me whenever she's going to places like Vail, because the 4WD is so important. Here in Vegas, there wasn't one 4WD in town. I had to buy the car in Westminster, CO, wherever that is. I was shocked that it cost $1,100 to register the vehicle, however. Worse than Vegas...

[aarman4]

Well, the Cash for Clunkers bill has gone to Obama for his signature. It says it is for cars that get 18 mpg or less, and I went back to the official government page, and my 94LS is still listed at 18 mpg. So it might be fun to go into a dealers showroom, haggle on a smaller car, and then, only then, pull the Clunkers deal. Fun, fun, fun. Looking at the Nissan Cube. 15 Grand or so. Less the Clunkers discount. Will look great in the garage next to my Mazda MX-5 Turbo. Some people never grow up...

Sorry to say, but i think the Nissan Cube just gave the Pontiak Aztek a run for it's money as the nastiest looking vehicle ever created....

[blake918]

Looks like the LS is in trouble, since I'm petrified about the known power steering and alternator problems. Already had the water pump/timing belt money pit work done.

So whatta' you think? Time to bail?

I wouldn't bail just yet. What's wrong with the a/c? Alternators and ps work is fairly simple and not that expensive. Gas is going to have to go past $5/gallon (and stay there) for me to want to downgrade to some overpriced tin can Prius or troublesome VW TDI. The $23k you'll spend on either of those cars will get you a nice '04 or later 430! B)

[intellivised]

I would also check out the Mazda 3's, if you're in that category of the car segment. I can attest that we loved our 07' 3-GT, it was an absolute blast to drive, and was very comfortable for cruising and such. They're built on a Volvo frame, which really shows well in the ride. I would have kept it when we moved to Chicago if it had not been for the overly HORRIBLE roads here that were just too much for my 36 year old back to take. If you live in an area of decent roads, and get that itch to remind yourself how fun driving can be, then I'd certainly recommend the 3. But, I would not recommend it if you live in a northern part of the country that uses a lot of road salt. Several other owners on the mazda3 forum from areas like Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, etc, reported rust showing up on the fenders and taillight areas, quickly. If you don't have that problem, then they're great little cars! Back in Carolina, my old commute used to be a 20 mile stretch of back country road full of horse farms and family McMansions, on my way to and from Chapel Hill. I can't recall a day that I didn't wake up in the morning and looked forward to driving into the office in that car! Here in Chicago, 17' low profile wheels, ain't the ticket.

As much of a Lexus fan as I am, and I know there are several folks on here with the series 1 LS that they simply love, with great reasons too, but one can't ignore the fact that they're at least 15 years old now. Cars today are made very differently in general then the way they were made back then. Granted, the LS is probably the best car made, but the new stuff from all manufacturers is pretty tough to ignore, when you're driving a 15 year old car. New bells and whistles, new technologies, new techniques. Not saying the 90-94 LS400's are bad, by any means, they're not. They're perfect, but, well you know what I'm trying to say. If you have the mean$, and the itch, then I'm all for the change. Especially now, with prices low, interest rates low, and massive incentives to get you to buy something in general. I'm telling you folks, this is a unique time to be a consumer, one that we'll probably not see again for at least a decade or two (hopefully).

I actually did check out a 3. The I had two big problems with the ones I was checking out:

- The dealership was terrible. There are a million 1 and 2 star ratings on the interwebs that back me up on this! Worst. sales. staff. ever. They pretty much sent me running for the hills. I was auditioning dealerships as much as I was cars. I have had a lot of positive experiences with the Toyota dealership in town, both Scion dealerships I went to were great.

- and with no Mazda dealership in town and no good answers from them about going to Ford for warranty work...

Wyoming DOT does not use salt, and Colorado, from what I understand, just stopped. Laramie is pretty amazing for car preservation - no salt, cold and dry and at 7000' there isn't even much oxygen in the air to encourage oxidation. I only live a mile from work and when the roads are crap, I stay at home. I'm a firm believer in summer/winter tires anyway. I've been pretty successful keeping my LS on the road so far.

Also as stupid as this sounds - I'm a touring a musician. I have a background in advertising and video, I see right through Scion's advertising and Toyota's three tiered approach. I also realize that a lot of the bands on the Scion compilations and playing those festivals they sponsor are getting good money and good exposure. I have a lot of friends whose careers got a real shot in the arm from being on those compilation tracks.

I'm keeping an eye on the bill. Going about my day to day Lexus business like it doesn't exist; that's why I had the new bushings put in. It's also why I'm going to get new plugs and wires in August, why I set up an appointment to have my passenger door reassembled. Why I'm going to seafoam the crap out of my car next week to get those damn noisy lifters to shut up and get back to a proper Lexus volume. I might end up keeping her and turning it into the winter beater and saving up for a proper down payment.

We'll see.

[intellivised]

Hey, Intellivised. My niece lives in Fort Collins. She graduated Colo State last year. She was going through some woman's crap when she was a Junior, so I pulled up in 2007 with a rental car. Except it wasn't a rental car, it was her brand new Hyundai Tucson. V-6, 4 WD. She almost died on the spot.

My point is that she calls me whenever she's going to places like Vail, because the 4WD is so important. Here in Vegas, there wasn't one 4WD in town. I had to buy the car in Westminster, CO, wherever that is. I was shocked that it cost $1,100 to register the vehicle, however. Worse than Vegas...

I didn't know Colorado was so pricey. Wyoming is cheaper (everything is cheaper here, including gas and no income taxes) but I get bit in the butt every year since registration is based on the ORIGINAL cost of the vehicle.

[nc211]

No arguments there about Mazda dealerships. They certainly don't rank very high in terms of service. But the way I buy cars, I usually don't care how I'm treated. If I'm at the point of buying something, I've researched it to a point where I know what I'm willing to pay. In fact, I kind of prefer a harder nosed, lousy type of service place. It makes me feel better about being a no-nonsense kind of buyer. I tend to take the route of "this is what I want, this is a fair offer for both of us, take it or leave it." I love USAA Bank and the way they do car loans. You go online, type in what you want, they approve you for up to a certain limit, send you the bank check, and you're now a cash buyer. I walk in with that bank check, say "somebody is going to get this from me today", take a test drive, and then make it their task to make sure that check doesn't walk out of the dealership. You give a car salesman a whiff of cash, and you pretty much own the place.

Another car that I think get's overlooked unfairly is the Subaru Legacy GT sedan. Turbo, awd, just at bullet proof as a Toyota, and a ton of fun to drive. But from the sound of it, I think you've made up your mind on what brand you're focusing in on, which in my opinion are pretty cool cars as well!

[intellivised]

The bill is law! Obama signed it this morning.

[intellivised]

No arguments there about Mazda dealerships. They certainly don't rank very high in terms of service. But the way I buy cars, I usually don't care how I'm treated. If I'm at the point of buying something, I've researched it to a point where I know what I'm willing to pay. In fact, I kind of prefer a harder nosed, lousy type of service place. It makes me feel better about being a no-nonsense kind of buyer. I tend to take the route of "this is what I want, this is a fair offer for both of us, take it or leave it." I love USAA Bank and the way they do car loans. You go online, type in what you want, they approve you for up to a certain limit, send you the bank check, and you're now a cash buyer. I walk in with that bank check, say "somebody is going to get this from me today", take a test drive, and then make it their task to make sure that check doesn't walk out of the dealership. You give a car salesman a whiff of cash, and you pretty much own the place.

Another car that I think get's overlooked unfairly is the Subaru Legacy GT sedan. Turbo, awd, just at bullet proof as a Toyota, and a ton of fun to drive. But from the sound of it, I think you've made up your mind on what brand you're focusing in on, which in my opinion are pretty cool cars as well!

I'm a firm believer in test driving everything to the point of driving the car dealers crazy. I haven't made it to Subaru or Honda yet. I'm firmly in the camp that I need to be treated well and the service department needs to be above average or better; I will no longer knowingly reward incompetence, institutional failure or general douchebaggery with my hard earned money. I don't feel bad about being hardnosed. I work for salespeople all ay, when I shop it's a nice opportunity to vent my frustrations a bit.

[TexasLexus94]

When I bought my new 2005 MX-5 Miata turbo here in Vegas, one interesting thing was that the manager told me that I shouldn't bother going to one of the 2 other Mazda dealers here because "we own them all". He was right. They all had slight accents, and it turned out they were all from Israel. No problem. But I did my homework, had a casino buffet in the morning to get ready for battle, and at 2 pm, the car they quoted me at $27,800 went out the door at $21,500. Now, however, I know I could have done better, maybe $20,000. They stopped making the car because the plant burned down in Japan, so they just wanted to get rid of them. Only made 5,200 total in 2 years.

Great car, however. The 4/48 warranty just expired. No problems whatsoever. Always have a big breakfast before going to the stealers-you can wear them down after lunch. Hi, NC211. Hope all is peachy...

[intellivised]

It's down to the Scion tC or a VW Rabbit. I think it's time to let the old girl go!

[intellivised]

It's down to the Scion tC or a VW Rabbit. I think it's time to let the old girl go!

Oh, man. What an adventure I've been on. The dealerships are getting sick of me. I finally came to my senses and decided: Whatever I buy has to have a dealer here in town. I also realized that... I live where it snows 8 months out of the year. Subaru? I'm looking at you.

Anyone else thinking of giving up the Lexus?