Low Brake Pad Indicator

[bainzey]

On my way home yesterday, I started to here bit of a grinding noise, My front PADS! Luckily I was close to home and on my way was my parts supplier, where I was able to aquire the new ones. And about half an hour later I was all set with new pads, and luckily the same rotors.

My question. I drive a 04 RX 330, are the RX's not equipped with a low pad warning indicator, or mine not working? This seems like a gimme on any Lexus vehicle of this age or newer.

[FZ6 Dude]

On my way home yesterday, I started to here bit of a grinding noise, My front PADS! Luckily I was close to home and on my way was my parts supplier, where I was able to aquire the new ones. And about half an hour later I was all set with new pads, and luckily the same rotors.

My question. I drive a 04 RX 330, are the RX's not equipped with a low pad warning indicator, or mine not working? This seems like a gimme on any Lexus vehicle of this age or newer.

I believe the break wear indicator is the small silver piece that needs to be removed from the previous pads and reused on the new ones. Perhaps the last time the pads were changed, it was not put back on.

[blk_on_blk]

That would be my guess, too. Older brake pads have the curved wear indicator fixed on one of the pads. One new vehicle pads, the indicator is a clip that can be left off is desired. Sounds like yours got left off. BTW, there should be new clips in every set of replacement brake pads... one per side, usually used on the pad that sits on the piston side of the caliper

[bainzey]

On my way home yesterday, I started to here bit of a grinding noise, My front PADS! Luckily I was close to home and on my way was my parts supplier, where I was able to aquire the new ones. And about half an hour later I was all set with new pads, and luckily the same rotors.

My question. I drive a 04 RX 330, are the RX's not equipped with a low pad warning indicator, or mine not working? This seems like a gimme on any Lexus vehicle of this age or newer.

I believe the break wear indicator is the small silver piece that needs to be removed from the previous pads and reused on the new ones. Perhaps the last time the pads were changed, it was not put back on.

Thanks for the responses...

This is my first pad change but I did purchase used with about 40k on it, so they were prbly done once before.

Interesting thing is... when I changed the pads there was a small metal piece that was one the old pads but not on the new ones, I just amounted that to a slightly different pad, as I did not buy the new ones from Lexus direct. Perhaps that piece was incorrectly put on during the last change hence no indication. But out curiosity when this is working correctly is there an indicator light in the dash?

[blk_on_blk]

No wear indicator light that I'm aware of... just an audible 'ring' from the mechanical interface of that curved tab touching the rotor. You should have had a couple little loose pieces in the new brake pad box that are the new clips to slip onto the corner ear of the new pad. If not, you should have been able to interchange the one off the old pad. Who knows, the old indicator might have been on there, but then just put on backwards... it wouldn't work on backwards, but it would slide onto the pad.

[dandg]

I am coming up on my third set of brakes pads in the front.I replaced the rotors last time.It seems these RX's go thought them about every 25-30K and the indicator is the mileage :)

Are you doing rotors and is there a better brand of pads then the TM ones?

thanks

[lenore]

Wow third set, what is your mileage? I am beginning to think the RX300 has lots of advantages. I have 162k miles and I am only on the second set.

[dandg]

Wow third set, what is your mileage? I am beginning to think the RX300 has lots of advantages. I have 162k miles and I am only on the second set.

Our is a 04 330 with 78k on it.Its in now for its second radiator (they are covering it under warranty) and the writer told me it needs brakes,I started to tell him "that X eats.." and he stopped me and said "brakes and tires".Not uncommon I suspect,this one is driven by a my wife a sweet little accountant not some young kid who is hard on them.

I did some searching on here and came up with this thread;

http://clublexus.com/forums/rx-second-gene...eplacement.html

I may do them myself this time,have to decide if I try another brand then the TM ones thou.

[blk_on_blk]

If you do it yourself, be sure to remove both of the floater pins on each caliper (both front and rear), clean them, regrease them, and ensure they 'float' in the mounting frame sleeve with minimal drag and no sticking points. You may have some sticky pins that are leaving the caliper slightly hung up, causing the excessive wear. These are a single pot 'floating' brake caliper design, like most non-performance domestic market vehicles. The force is applied on one side from the piston, and then equalized because the caliper floats. If it isn't floating properly, the braking force comes dominantly from the piston side. It could also cause the trailing side to hang a bit and you get excessive wear either way. There is a lot of heat generated in brake calipers, so refreshing the grease is important.

Akebono, which I use, is the manufacturer for Toyota's brakes. I'm not sure who their rotor manufacture is, but I've started using Centric premium rotors and have been very pleased. Not only are they a decent price, and they have a nice cross-hatched surface texture to them, but they also have powder-coated hubs... the section that always seems to corrode on these vehicles and leaves your wheel/rotor bound up to the hub over a long period of time. They are one of the nicest replacement rotors I've seen available.

I did both of our Lexus's in Akebono ceramic pads and Centric discs... since then they brake smooth and strong with no squeal nor fade. I'm very impressed with the combination.

[dandg]

Thanks for the tips and info on those Centric rotors.The Lexus dealer quoted me $475 per axle (says I need both front and rear brakes) "if" they can cut the rotors,he seem to think there was enough meat on them.They do the on the car,I think Pro Cut has the machine) to factor in any runout caused by front end.

I am going to check with a Toyota dealer and see what he wants but suspect I can order the pads (used Carson in Kalif for a case of oil filters(do my own with Mobil 1 and its much cheaper then the $175 the dealer charges).Open to other vendor if you knwo one of course.

many thanks for the help

[blk_on_blk]

www.autopartswarehouse.com has your rear rotors (Centric) for $106/pair. Front rotors (Centric) are $128/pair. They have your full brake pad set (Akebono) for $134 (front & rear). That's $368 for all parts (free shipping). I can't see the labor of changing out brake pads/rotors and cleaning/maintenancing the calipers being more than $120. So that's a full set of all new brake pads and rotors at all corners fully installed for the price of one axle at the dealer, and that's with turned rotors at the dealer (they can probably turn them and have them legally in spec, but it's not recommended because it leaves them thinner and more susceptible to warpage from the extreme thermal dynamic changes during braking).

Lastly, changing out pads and rotors is pretty simplistic and basic work. I would go find a good indie shop for this job (one that is willing to work with you bringing in your parts, or better yet, quote them on your parts and see if they can get matching components for equal or better pricing; that would save you some hassle)... definitely not the dealer. The dealer is good for very "Lexus" specific work... and this is definitely not one of those jobs.

[Grumpa72]

Wow. I don't what you guys and gals are doing wrong or what we are doing right but my 2005 330 with 46000 miles on it has its original everything except wiper blads. The pads and rotors get checked every 5000 miles when I rotate the tires and I still have tons of miles left in them. At least 1/4" from memory. This is my wife's car (she DOES drive like a granny ;) ) so I take no chances that she will tell me about a noise like the wear indicator. It is also used occasionally to carry grandkids so nothing gets left to chance or even remotely close to the limits

Just wondering.

[dandg]

just check out the autopartswharehouse site,thanks.

I went on the Carlson one,the TM front pads are 50.29 and the rear (they show 3 types) range but all are under 51.00 but there is shipping.Rotors are 110 each,again plus shipping from Kalif. I probably will go with the autowharehouse ones.I may try it myself,my only concern is any damge to the antilock but it seem if you open the cap on the master and remove a bit of fluid,then push the piston back slowly you should be ok.

One last question,it my understanding that the rotors should be replaced no matter what correct? Is it possible to just swap out the 4 pads? The two fronts rotors only have 30k on them as they where replaced last time (as you mentioned,the Toyota dealer turned them but then they where two thin and we where back a month later for rotors.

Thanks for all the help

[blk_on_blk]

I think this is something you can readily do yourself... and that DIY link you had from CL is a great guide. It covers everything with pictures except the compression of the calipers (for the new pads) and cleaning of the slide pins as I had mentioned. I really think you've got a caliper hanging up on you somewhere (leading to your premature wear), and that should get remedied with cleaning the slide pins (BTW, the rubber boots on them just pop off, then pop back on).

You could also go to your local parts store and they should have a 'caliper compressor' for cheap. It's essentially a caliper-specialized screw clamp. I got mine at Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=34304

Now, one thing to look for, if, when doing the replacement and using the caliper compressor to push the caliper pistons back into the caliper, you notice it takes excessive force to push the pots back, then that's an indicator you may have a caliper issue. Your vehicle is fairly new to be having caliper issues, but we recently had one on our ES300, so they happen. What you should feel is as you start to turn the screw on the caliper compressor, it will get stiff, but as soon as it starts to move, the compression should be smooth and relatively easy as you turn. If it is, then your calipers are good. I would suck out some of the brake fluid from the reservoir, too, as you mentioned, since you are doing all four wheels and that's a lot of fluid to push back into the reservoir.

As to rotors, the answer is that you should theoretically be able to use the same ones forever. If they don't warp and you never score them, they will sit there and provide strong braking for years and years. If they get grooved, over-heated, have hair-line cracks, or warped, then they need to be changed out. With that said, if you changed out your rotors ~30K miles ago and they are clean and smooth, then you can keep them. Although, if you change pad type or manufacturer, you will risk the possibility of squeal and brake fade, for pads embed themselves into the surface of the rotor, and dis-similar brake pad material could cause squealing and fade. One way around that is to take off your existing rotors, take an angle grinder with a flexible medium-fine grinding disc/wheel on it, and quickly scuff the surface of the rotors radiating from the hub out. This knocks off the surface skin and gives a nice texture to embed the new brake pads onto (Centric brakes already have this surface grind texture to them, which I've never seen on any other replacement rotors)... you just need a light dusting from the grinder just to etch the surface, but work your way around the rotor and ensure you get all the surface area dusted (I've done this before, and it works beautifully... no more squeal after that treatment). It'll save you $100+ for new front rotors. (BTW, other people have used sandpaper for this process, too, which seems to work well. Here's a thread in a Mazda forum on the topic: http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-271527.html )

As to the anti-lock... just be careful as you go and you'll be fine.

If you've never done a brake replacement before, then I suggest watching as many online videos and DIY's on the process... to the point it becomes repetitive. Everyone has a bit of insight as they go, and if you watch them to the point each one seems to repeat the same ideas, then that means you are comfortable with the process and ready to confidently do it yourself. It's not hard... just set aside an afternoon, make sure you have the right parts and tools, and by all means BE SAFE... jack-stands, good placement, a torque wrench, lot's of room to work, and take your time.

[lenore]

blk_on_blk you are absolutely correct. Have been doing brakes for 40 years. You can use the existing rotor if you dont have any warpage (you can feel it when you brake, it is a pulsating feeling) Clean the rotors up install new pads and you are good to go. The new pads will seat, even if there is minor grooving in the disk....good luck

[code58]

just check out the autopartswharehouse site,thanks.

I went on the Carlson one,the TM front pads are 50.29 and the rear (they show 3 types) range but all are under 51.00 but there is shipping.Rotors are 110 each,again plus shipping from Kalif. I probably will go with the autowharehouse ones.I may try it myself,my only concern is any damge to the antilock but it seem if you open the cap on the master and remove a bit of fluid,then push the piston back slowly you should be ok.

One last question,it my understanding that the rotors should be replaced no matter what correct? Is it possible to just swap out the 4 pads? The two fronts rotors only have 30k on them as they where replaced last time (as you mentioned,the Toyota dealer turned them but then they where two thin and we where back a month later for rotors.

Thanks for all the help

One suggestion I might make 'dandg' is to forget sucking fluid out of your reservoir. I don't like pushing fluid back upstream and the easy fix for that is to open the bleed valve at the same time that you stick a large screw driver down the opening in the caliper, between the rotor and the caliper body on the outside of the rotor. Keep your hand on the wrench for the bleed screw and as soon as the caliper piston bottoms out, close the screw. You don't need a retractor tool and it is the simplest way in the world to do it. No fluid pushed back up stream and your caliper is ready for the new pads when you take it off. That is the only way I have ever done it. You don't have to worry about any air entering the system, gravity and the immediate closure of the bleed screw see to that. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is obviously done before you even loosen the mounting slide pins. Good Luck- I think you'll be surprised how easy it is.

[artbuc]

just check out the autopartswharehouse site,thanks.

I went on the Carlson one,the TM front pads are 50.29 and the rear (they show 3 types) range but all are under 51.00 but there is shipping.Rotors are 110 each,again plus shipping from Kalif. I probably will go with the autowharehouse ones.I may try it myself,my only concern is any damge to the antilock but it seem if you open the cap on the master and remove a bit of fluid,then push the piston back slowly you should be ok.

One last question,it my understanding that the rotors should be replaced no matter what correct? Is it possible to just swap out the 4 pads? The two fronts rotors only have 30k on them as they where replaced last time (as you mentioned,the Toyota dealer turned them but then they where two thin and we where back a month later for rotors.

Thanks for all the help

One suggestion I might make 'dandg' is to forget sucking fluid out of your reservoir. I don't like pushing fluid back upstream and the easy fix for that is to open the bleed valve at the same time that you stick a large screw driver down the opening in the caliper, between the rotor and the caliper body on the outside of the rotor. Keep your hand on the wrench for the bleed screw and as soon as the caliper piston bottoms out, close the screw. You don't need a retractor tool and it is the simplest way in the world to do it. No fluid pushed back up stream and your caliper is ready for the new pads when you take it off. That is the only way I have ever done it. You don't have to worry about any air entering the system, gravity and the immediate closure of the bleed screw see to that. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is obviously done before you even loosen the mounting slide pins. Good Luck- I think you'll be surprised how easy it is.

Roger, I'd like to try that next time but I am afraid I will tear the rubber boot.

[code58]

just check out the autopartswharehouse site,thanks.

I went on the Carlson one,the TM front pads are 50.29 and the rear (they show 3 types) range but all are under 51.00 but there is shipping.Rotors are 110 each,again plus shipping from Kalif. I probably will go with the autowharehouse ones.I may try it myself,my only concern is any damge to the antilock but it seem if you open the cap on the master and remove a bit of fluid,then push the piston back slowly you should be ok.

One last question,it my understanding that the rotors should be replaced no matter what correct? Is it possible to just swap out the 4 pads? The two fronts rotors only have 30k on them as they where replaced last time (as you mentioned,the Toyota dealer turned them but then they where two thin and we where back a month later for rotors.

Thanks for all the help

One suggestion I might make 'dandg' is to forget sucking fluid out of your reservoir. I don't like pushing fluid back upstream and the easy fix for that is to open the bleed valve at the same time that you stick a large screw driver down the opening in the caliper, between the rotor and the caliper body on the outside of the rotor. Keep your hand on the wrench for the bleed screw and as soon as the caliper piston bottoms out, close the screw. You don't need a retractor tool and it is the simplest way in the world to do it. No fluid pushed back up stream and your caliper is ready for the new pads when you take it off. That is the only way I have ever done it. You don't have to worry about any air entering the system, gravity and the immediate closure of the bleed screw see to that. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is obviously done before you even loosen the mounting slide pins. Good Luck- I think you'll be surprised how easy it is.

Roger, I'd like to try that next time but I am afraid I will tear the rubber boot.

Good Morning Artbuc- If I understand correctly what your concern is, you are putting the large screwdriver (I actually prefer the ones that are bent on the end and are actually made for prying) on the OUTSIDE of the rotor, between the rotor and the opening in the caliper and prying outward on the caliper against the rotor. That is forcing the piston back into the caliper. Your rubber seal is on the INSIDE of the rotor on the piston. No possibility of damaging the seal. I hope that makes it clearer. :)

[artbuc]

just check out the autopartswharehouse site,thanks.

I went on the Carlson one,the TM front pads are 50.29 and the rear (they show 3 types) range but all are under 51.00 but there is shipping.Rotors are 110 each,again plus shipping from Kalif. I probably will go with the autowharehouse ones.I may try it myself,my only concern is any damge to the antilock but it seem if you open the cap on the master and remove a bit of fluid,then push the piston back slowly you should be ok.

One last question,it my understanding that the rotors should be replaced no matter what correct? Is it possible to just swap out the 4 pads? The two fronts rotors only have 30k on them as they where replaced last time (as you mentioned,the Toyota dealer turned them but then they where two thin and we where back a month later for rotors.

Thanks for all the help

One suggestion I might make 'dandg' is to forget sucking fluid out of your reservoir. I don't like pushing fluid back upstream and the easy fix for that is to open the bleed valve at the same time that you stick a large screw driver down the opening in the caliper, between the rotor and the caliper body on the outside of the rotor. Keep your hand on the wrench for the bleed screw and as soon as the caliper piston bottoms out, close the screw. You don't need a retractor tool and it is the simplest way in the world to do it. No fluid pushed back up stream and your caliper is ready for the new pads when you take it off. That is the only way I have ever done it. You don't have to worry about any air entering the system, gravity and the immediate closure of the bleed screw see to that. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. This is obviously done before you even loosen the mounting slide pins. Good Luck- I think you'll be surprised how easy it is.

Roger, I'd like to try that next time but I am afraid I will tear the rubber boot.

Good Morning Artbuc- If I understand correctly what your concern is, you are putting the large screwdriver (I actually prefer the ones that are bent on the end and are actually made for prying) on the OUTSIDE of the rotor, between the rotor and the opening in the caliper and prying outward on the caliper against the rotor. That is forcing the piston back into the caliper. Your rubber seal is on the INSIDE of the rotor on the piston. No possibility of damaging the seal. I hope that makes it clearer. :)

Gotcha...thanks. Wish I would have learned that trick about 30 years ago :D !

[pm99]

blk_on_blk you are absolutely correct. Have been doing brakes for 40 years. You can use the existing rotor if you dont have any warpage (you can feel it when you brake, it is a pulsating feeling) Clean the rotors up install new pads and you are good to go. The new pads will seat, even if there is minor grooving in the disk....good luck

blk_on_blk and lenore, You guys seem to know what you are doing. I have a '99 RX300, that I took to the dealer for a 120K service. Apparently, I have to change my headlights, I have a few oil leaks and there is only 2mm left on my back brakes. I changed my head lights but was wondering if I can do the brakes myself. According to the dealer I need my rotors machined, new pads and new shims. Do you have a any links to step by step instructions on how I can replace these. blk_on_blk mentioned some DIY videos. any recommendations on which ones to look at. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Prashant