TroyLexus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hello everyone, I just joined this forum, and have a few questions about lowering an ES330 I'm looking at a moderate drop, 1" or so. How much would that effect the handling, softer, stiffer, handle better, etc etc .. Pro's and Cons ? Any recomendations... ? Will this make my lexus ride stiff, and uncomfortable ? thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 There are not a lot of pro's other than looks. If you lower the car via lowering springs, you'll put the caster/camber out of whack to a point you probably won't be able to get them back in with an alignment, then you'll start seeing odd wear on your tires. Here's one quote on the topic: "Only teenagers are a more efficient way of wasting tire tread than lowering a car. Every suspension is designed to work in a certain range: Lower the car and the suspension is sure to be out of its range. It's a truism we've verified on everything from Mustangs to Taurii. When dropping into the weeds, be prepared to sort out the suspension geometry or buy a lot of tires." A way around this is to use caster/camber plates, or (my preference) drop-spindles. But they don't make either of these for the ES330 (that I know of). Unless you did it right (with lowering plates or replacement spindles), it's not a good idea to lower your ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyLexus Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 what about coil overs ? is that bad for the suspension too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Uh... I'm not sure how that would work on an ES300. Coil-overs replace shock/spring assemblies in wish-bone, multi-link, and trailing-arm suspensions... these are strut set-ups. Essentially, they already are coil-overs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usvi Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 There are not a lot of pro's other than looks. If you lower the car via lowering springs, you'll put the caster/camber out of whack to a point you probably won't be able to get them back in with an alignment, then you'll start seeing odd wear on your tires. Here's one quote on the topic:"Only teenagers are a more efficient way of wasting tire tread than lowering a car. Every suspension is designed to work in a certain range: Lower the car and the suspension is sure to be out of its range. It's a truism we've verified on everything from Mustangs to Taurii. When dropping into the weeds, be prepared to sort out the suspension geometry or buy a lot of tires." A way around this is to use caster/camber plates, or (my preference) drop-spindles. But they don't make either of these for the ES330 (that I know of). Unless you did it right (with lowering plates or replacement spindles), it's not a good idea to lower your ride. all those stuff are not necessary for the 1 inch drop that he wants. Better handling as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyLexus Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 There are not a lot of pro's other than looks. If you lower the car via lowering springs, you'll put the caster/camber out of whack to a point you probably won't be able to get them back in with an alignment, then you'll start seeing odd wear on your tires. Here's one quote on the topic:"Only teenagers are a more efficient way of wasting tire tread than lowering a car. Every suspension is designed to work in a certain range: Lower the car and the suspension is sure to be out of its range. It's a truism we've verified on everything from Mustangs to Taurii. When dropping into the weeds, be prepared to sort out the suspension geometry or buy a lot of tires." A way around this is to use caster/camber plates, or (my preference) drop-spindles. But they don't make either of these for the ES330 (that I know of). Unless you did it right (with lowering plates or replacement spindles), it's not a good idea to lower your ride. all those stuff are not necessary for the 1 inch drop that he wants. Better handling as well. Are you saying a 1inch drop will have very little negative effects on the car ? where a 3 inch drop is more of a big deal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Hmmm... "not necessary"? I'm not exactly sure what that means. Each change to ride height changes the suspension trajectory... 1" drop has a certain effect/impact on it... a 3" drop has a greater effect/impact. I think usvi is saying a 1" drop will have a minimal effect. Really? I can't say that is true or not. What is directly effected when you drop a vehicle (usually by torching the springs or cutting them) is the camber. Here's a visual of what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyLexus Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Hmmm... "not necessary"? I'm not exactly sure what that means. Each change to ride height changes the suspension trajectory... 1" drop has a certain effect/impact on it... a 3" drop has a greater effect/impact. I think usvi is saying a 1" drop will have a minimal effect. Really? I can't say that is true or not. What is directly effected when you drop a vehicle (usually by torching the springs or cutting them) is the camber. Here's a visual of what happens... That's crazy, no one said they were going to take out their springs, and saw them off an inch and put them back in. This isn't the 1991 Honda forum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 So here's your choices on dropping your vehicle's ride height. You're going to either torch your springs to get the right drop, cut them (and no, you don't just cut off an inch from the spring and that equals an inch drop. Seriously, it's in a coil... you would have to figure out how much gets trimmed to make the drop you want... and good luck with that), or you go out and you find a spring manufacturer that has custom made springs giving you the ride height you want. There are companies like that out there... I had some custom made for my old racing Chevelle. The thing is that performance lowed springs often tend to have a stiffer spring rate by 20+%, and then are hard on the struts with the jounce/rebound rates (here's a good reference: http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/product...roducts_id=1289 ) ...if you get performance springs, then you better get performance struts. The closest thing out there to 'doing it right' is a kit like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=390037533466 ...which are adjustable struts (which I see they are calling coilovers... might be what you were thinking of with coilovers). They adjust ride height without stiffening the spring... but they still don't correct for camber changes. Still, the more you drop your vehicle's ride height, the more you muck your suspension's trajectory. If you don't mind biased premature wear on your tires and replacing them more often, then you'd be golden with this eBay kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky13 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I think this is a little to negative. If you have it done right by the right people (not some punk shop that will "slam" it) using springs designed to lower your car merely an inch you will not have any noticable cons. No real pros either but you arent destroying anything sheesh. Go for it, just do it right. And if were "just teenagers wasting rubber burning tires and ruining our vehicles by lowering it an inch" so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not negative... it just is what it is. Those are the options and pretty much what the end effect will be. If that's what the person wants, then go for it... just go in eyes wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyLexus Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Not negative... it just is what it is. Those are the options and pretty much what the end effect will be. If that's what the person wants, then go for it... just go in eyes wide open. Thanks for the help everyone... but when you say "have it done right by the right people " that's what I'm trying to do, I'm basically trying to ask how to do it the right way, maybe I didn't stress that earlier.. But what do "the right people" do ? torch springs, install adjustable coilover ? etc etc. .. Either way, thanks everyone for all your help, I do apreciate it. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 The right people would be a reputable custom shop. In my opinion, the best way to make the change is with that coil-over strut kit... for then you can adjust between different ride-heights and select what you want without committing to any one setting, plus you don't change your spring rates with each adjustment. In fact, you may even be able to adjust out the change in camber with an alignment (that I don't know... depends on how much your camber is changed and how much adjustment you have). Plus, if you've ever changed out struts, you can change out to that kit yourself. Torching changes your spring rates and brings your coils closer together... cutting changes the spring rate, but keeps the coils well spaced. Both are not the most wonderful way to lower your car, but if done right (and for minimal drops like 1") it can work perfectly (I've seen both done properly with great results). If you want more than an 1" or 2", then torching and cutting will leave a rough ride. Custom springs is another way to go... but you'll want to make sure they still have a 'close to factory' spring rate. You'll probably want those custom made (they shouldn't be too expensive). The racing ones readily available will probably be quite stiff. If I were you, and I were wanting to make this change, I would do my research and find a good custom tuner shop in the area, go talk to them, talk about your options and cost. I'm sure they've lowered vehicles by all methods and can give you the best option specific for your needs/wants. BTW, if you really wanted to play, you can always install an air system. http://www.airrunnersystems.com/content/pr...lications/lexus ...although it looks like they only have bolt-on kits for the earlier year ES's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usvi Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 a 1" drop will not !Removed! you wheels out. Try find a good company that makes a spring in that range. I dropped two of my cars around 2" and tires never stuck out. Once you know how to change your springs orstruts you can do it yourself and take somewhere to align after. But, I also dropped another one of my cars 2.25" and had minimal inside wear (never took it to align so that might have been the problem). I see no reason why a 1" drop will make the wheels look like the pic. Plus I live around alot of hills and sharp corners roads. But this car might be different The right people would be a reputable custom shop. In my opinion, the best way to make the change is with that coil-over strut kit... for then you can adjust between different ride-heights and select what you want without committing to any one setting, plus you don't change your spring rates with each adjustment. In fact, you may even be able to adjust out the change in camber with an alignment (that I don't know... depends on how much your camber is changed and how much adjustment you have). Plus, if you've ever changed out struts, you can change out to that kit yourself.Torching changes your spring rates and brings your coils closer together... cutting changes the spring rate, but keeps the coils well spaced. Both are not the most wonderful way to lower your car, but if done right (and for minimal drops like 1") it can work perfectly (I've seen both done properly with great results). If you want more than an 1" or 2", then torching and cutting will leave a rough ride. Custom springs is another way to go... but you'll want to make sure they still have a 'close to factory' spring rate. You'll probably want those custom made (they shouldn't be too expensive). The racing ones readily available will probably be quite stiff. If I were you, and I were wanting to make this change, I would do my research and find a good custom tuner shop in the area, go talk to them, talk about your options and cost. I'm sure they've lowered vehicles by all methods and can give you the best option specific for your needs/wants. BTW, if you really wanted to play, you can always install an air system. http://www.airrunnersystems.com/content/pr...lications/lexus ...although it looks like they only have bolt-on kits for the earlier year ES's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blk_on_blk Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 It all depends on the suspension geometry... some are more affected than others. Like I said, if you can compensate for the change in camber with an alignment, then you're good to go. If not, then your wheels won't "stick out", but you'll get dominant wear on the inner path of the tire (although the car will handle better, for the tire/wheel will be already pre-cambered when going into a turn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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