Presidential? Obama

[dcfish]

Jib Jab............ Kind of like Mad Magazine back in the day, Spoofers.......I like the ears in the wind Although they don't show his nose growing HHHHMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! If I spent the obamas money like they spend mine........ <_< Remember the Hatfields and McCoys ???

[jcrome04]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow that is exactly what I needed to set the weekend off! :D

[SW03ES]

Hahahaha, thats pretty good.

Not as good as the previous JibJabs IMHO though...

[nc211]

The Obama administration on Tuesday increased its 10-year budget deficit projection to more than $9 trillion, an increase of about $2 trillion that is blamed on the bleak fiscal picture and the practices of the previous administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/25...icits-trillion/

Ok, I'm getting a little tired of the "it's not my fault, it's Bush's" excuse. How can Obama blame an estimate "which we all know will change a thousand times anyway" on a number a DECADE in the future, on a previous administration? Especially given the utter fact that Obama's shop is spending trillions and trillions of dollars on expanding the government? This.....is the cost of what I've been saying to watch out for....the running of the corner office, from the oval office. There is a reason why Washington DC's commercial real estate market is the best in the nation....because the government is expanding so quickly that they're leasing up any vacant space they can get!

Here's a suggestion, Mr. President: Have a little faith in the private sector (the nation for which you represent on an international stage) to know what needs to be done to fix the problem. Yes, we have a problem. Yes, the vast majority of the private sector participants are to blame. But, as history always shows "talking to you Peanut Farmer Boy, Jimmy Carter", injecting government into the middle of the process of correction, only makes it worse.

Bush is retired. Time to stop pointing your right index finger at him as the excuse, as you're signing multi-trillion dollar bills with your left. Slow down, or you risk losing the confidence of the american public. You've already ticked off the vast majority of the business community with your "It's me or the pitchforks" attitude.

He has less than 36 months to prepare to answer the inevitable question from the Republican's front runner of "Hey America, how ya' doing?" Using the "I inherited this problem" excuse won't hold water then, because most americans will remember a time when they could buy a house without having to make their 10 year old child a co-signer. They're remember a feeling of security from the international threats that Bush was very good at protecting us from. They WON'T remember the bad, because the memory plays that trick on a person...it only remembers the good. It's just human nature.

I have this sinking feeling we're heading for a 1980-1982 "double dip" recession. I use to think we were more like the 90-92' recession, where commercial real estate was to blame due to over building "much like this one is to blame for the residential real estate market overbuilding". But, something is off. Something doesn't jive with that thinking anymore.... I know what it is....do you? It's OIL. True, oil spiked in 90-92' due to the first Gulf War. But, it eased up when things calmed down over there. It better ease up now, and soon, otherwise when inflation hits, and oil is still in the $60's+ range...it'll go through the roof and we'll be way worse than we were this time last year!

OK, rant done....sorry..

[LexLuthor400]

The Obama administration on Tuesday increased its 10-year budget deficit projection to more than $9 trillion, an increase of about $2 trillion that is blamed on the bleak fiscal picture and the practices of the previous administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/25...icits-trillion/

Ok, I'm getting a little tired of the "it's not my fault, it's Bush's" excuse. How can Obama blame an estimate "which we all know will change a thousand times anyway" on a number a DECADE in the future, on a previous administration? Especially given the utter fact that Obama's shop is spending trillions and trillions of dollars on expanding the government? This.....is the cost of what I've been saying to watch out for....the running of the corner office, from the oval office. There is a reason why Washington DC's commercial real estate market is the best in the nation....because the government is expanding so quickly that they're leasing up any vacant space they can get!

Here's a suggestion, Mr. President: Have a little faith in the private sector (the nation for which you represent on an international stage) to know what needs to be done to fix the problem. Yes, we have a problem. Yes, the vast majority of the private sector participants are to blame. But, as history always shows "talking to you Peanut Farmer Boy, Jimmy Carter", injecting government into the middle of the process of correction, only makes it worse.

You see this is why yesterday I said that the "Cash for Clunkers" was a pile of B.S. The more the government meddles in our day to day business, the less profitable we are.

I agree that he definitely needs to stop saying he "inherited" this crisis. This crisis was coming for years now, it is a product of our American culture (not all, but many) to accumulate debt so that we have nice things. Eventually something has to break, and that is what caused this crisis, bottom line.

I think the honeymoon is over with Obama, more and more people are starting to realize who he really is. The sad part, is that finding out who he really is was not that hard before the election. People were just so caught up with his fancy speeches (Which by the way, HE PLAGIARIZED), that people never really understood, he could not do anything to fix our situation, since the President really does not have majority "control" over the economy. Its not that McCain would have done any better, IMO he was not my first choice either, but I just could not bring myself to vote for another ego maniac, who thought they were the chance to make things right.

I don't know why I am having such a HARD time trusting ANY politicians. For the past twenty years, both sides have had the majority in the senate and house, yet for some reason things just keep getting worse. We have constant deficits, American companies are outsourcing jobs by the millions, all while our leaders spend more and more to "solve" problems that never go away and only get worse. On top of all that, now if you go to town hall meetings and express your thoughts; you are called a right wing extremist or unruly mobster. If I remember right, this is America, we have the right to tell our elected officials what WE want. I mean after all, THEY work for US!

Sorry for another rant, but I am seriously getting tired of the arrogance in our government!

[GDixon]

I don't know why I am having such a HARD time trusting ANY politicians.

You are kidding, right?

[dcfish]

Trust = oil.............................Politicians = vinegar !!! Or the other way around ?

[LexLuthor400]

You are kidding, right?

I wish I was!

I just don't trust a government that says "here is our nation's or state's budget" and then somehow it always ends up in a massive deficit. I mean why do they even bother calling it a "budget". Especially where I live here in Sacramento CA, we are now $21 Billion in the red as a state.

On top of that Obama recently says that his predicted deficit for our budget in the future was $2 TRILLION off. HOW THE HELL DO YOU MISS 2 TRILLION (Thats $2,000,000,000,000 with 12 zeros, or $40 billion more for each state, remember CA is already -$21 billion) MORE IN THE BUDGET. What kind of math do they use in Washington? Why cant we get an honest figure the first time? And I have a feeling thats not even half of the actual number we are going to see in the future. Plus we have not even pass the BS $1,300,000,000,000 healthcare bill or the cap and trade BS too.

In future years our nation WILL be borrowing HALF the money we spend yearly, now if that is not a cause for distrust in our government, I don't know what is. If you owned a business, would you hire these clowns to run it for you? HELL NO!

The FACT is that both sides of our government have been spending out of control for the past two decades and that is why we are where we are now.

I want to know, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE USA?

[nc211]

Hahaha! How do you miss $2 Trillion dollars! I like your posts Lex! I wouldn't necessarily say we've been spending too much for the past TWO decades, just the last decade. Remember, when Clinton left office, we actually had a surplus! But, Bush gave it away as a "stimulus" right before 9/11 happened.

There's simply no way to avoid the raising of taxes on anyone over the $100k mark anymore for a while. Those above that threshold in the 90's will certainly say how painful it was. But, the end result was a surplus.

I'll tell you the thing that is also starting to tick me off, and I predicted somewhere on this forum earlier, is the fracturing of the security departments (DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA) to a point where neither one trusts the other and can't/won't talk to them anymore. That's exactly what's going on now with the CIA and this witch hunt from Congress. We're going RIGHT BACK TO the Clinton days, which in some part, is to blame for the allowance of 9/11 to have ever been pulled off in the first place. Bush was spot on the money, spot on the damn money, to clean up the lines of communication between the agencies and to remove that cloud of red tape b/s that Clinton had put into place between them all. They all have the same goal = protect the country. But, if one knows something, and the other has the ability to do something about it, then why in the heck shouldn't the one who knows, have the ability to call the one who can, without having that Condor looking crook of a !Removed! !Removed! Pelosi in the middle of it? That woman makes Celine Dion look like Robert E. Lee, and coming from me, that says something!

[LexLuthor400]

Hahaha! How do you miss $2 Trillion dollars! I like your posts Lex! I wouldn't necessarily say we've been spending too much for the past TWO decades, just the last decade. Remember, when Clinton left office, we actually had a surplus! But, Bush gave it away as a "stimulus" right before 9/11 happened.

There's simply no way to avoid the raising of taxes on anyone over the $100k mark anymore for a while. Those above that threshold in the 90's will certainly say how painful it was. But, the end result was a surplus.

I'll tell you the thing that is also starting to tick me off, and I predicted somewhere on this forum earlier, is the fracturing of the security departments (DEA, FBI, CIA, NSA) to a point where neither one trusts the other and can't/won't talk to them anymore. That's exactly what's going on now with the CIA and this witch hunt from Congress. We're going RIGHT BACK TO the Clinton days, which in some part, is to blame for the allowance of 9/11 to have ever been pulled off in the first place. Bush was spot on the money, spot on the damn money, to clean up the lines of communication between the agencies and to remove that cloud of red tape b/s that Clinton had put into place between them all. They all have the same goal = protect the country. But, if one knows something, and the other has the ability to do something about it, then why in the heck shouldn't the one who knows, have the ability to call the one who can, without having that Condor looking crook of a !Removed! !Removed! Pelosi in the middle of it? That woman makes Celine Dion look like Robert E. Lee, and coming from me, that says something!

"!Removed! !Removed! Pelosi" Now that is funny *BLEEP*!!!! GOD I HATE that !Removed!! I embarrassed that she even represents near where I live. I say near to Sacramento, because even 80 miles is too close to that stupid !Removed!.

I say that we have been spending too much for the past two decades, because all we do is add ridiculous government agencies and programs. Although there have been times where we have had a surplus, we are still spending too much. Besides from what I have heard lately, I highly doubt those surplus' were even surplus'. There could have been some $2 Trillion dollar over estimates, from what we have seen recently!

I have a sneaking suspicion that our leaders do not want that clear line of communication between our investigative agencies. Because that might mean they will be watched too closely. They want to keep them busy just trying to communicate, so that they cannot investigate what really needs to be investigated: Congress. Obviously Obama shows no real interest in protecting our homeland, he is too busy making sure we don't "offend" anyone. If he honestly thinks that he can make friends with our SWORN enemies, he is more foolish than I had predicted. Unfortunately that is what is going to hurt us in the long run. When will Americans learn and realize that outside of our country there are people who want to kill us and destroy everything have. It makes me sick when people stand up for the guantanmo (however its spelled) detainees, rather than our own troops who are giving their lives in order to help free a country from the tyranny of a powerful regime. Then you get that clueless looking pelosi making accusations against an agency that is trying to protect her and the rest of the country WTF!!!!!! When did we do anything illegal, Pelosi if I remember right, they attacked us. Which means THEY broke the laws first. Pelosi stop trying to find an issue that will bring you more attention by attacking those who are there to protect you, YOU STUPID !Removed!!

Anyways I could probably rant for another 50,000 pages if I had the time. It just makes me angry at how many people have little to no clue about what is going on in our country, because if they did we would not be in this situation, so I am glad that people like you nc211 are out there. Every one is to busy finding out who is the next American Idol or who is going to be on Dancing with the Stars.

P.S. I hope the department of homeland security is not watching my comments since I am at a college typing this reply.

DHS- I would NOT like to kill Pelosi nor do I intend to, but if a truck were to run over her fat !Removed!; lets just say I would have a HUGE smile on my face! :D

[SW03ES]

People were just so caught up with his fancy speeches (Which by the way, HE PLAGIARIZED

Got some kind of proof of that?

[nc211]

Hahahaa..... I knew the second I read that line, we'd be seeing you shortly.... ;)

For the record: I'm not really complaining about Obama, as much as I am about the Democratic party in general. My vote is still out on Obama, as he has certainly come to office in a very interesting time. I think he deserves a little extra breathing room before I make up my mind. I know where I'm leaning towards at the moment though, but not finalized on that decision just yet. There's just something about the manner in which the democratic party conducts themselves that throws me off a little. Probably much in the same manner as those who feel that way about the republican party and their "I don't want to hear it" attitude sometimes.

[LexLuthor400]

People were just so caught up with his fancy speeches (Which by the way, HE PLAGIARIZED

Got some kind of proof of that?

Check out Youtube its all over there. I'm not sure what the title was but do some research you'll find them. He copied previous speeches word for word!

[LexLuthor400]

People were just so caught up with his fancy speeches (Which by the way, HE PLAGIARIZED

Got some kind of proof of that?

Here I found one for you, but there are more out there. I just don't have time since I am at school right now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3evN0GCa74

For the record, I don't hate Obama. I am just having a hard time trusting what he says and does, but the same goes with the Republican party as well. I don't trust those who say our current system is not right, when our current system is closer to the Constitution in comparison with where Obama wants to take our country, thats all.

[SW03ES]

YouTube? Seriously? Why don't you quote Wikipedia while you're at it.

In the link you posted by the way, hardly a word for word "plagarism", the overriding theme is the same yes but what other famous speech one-liners that have the same "call to action" theme would you use? There aren't many, and they aren't even in the same order here. Politicians don't write their own speeches by the way...speechwriters do. Could have been the same speechwriter.

If you look long enough, with the number of speeches that have been given by the many speakers in the world I would be surprised if there was a speech given by anyone you couldn't link back to some other speech given by someone at some point in history.

I have no problem with criticism and being critical of anyone, but you've got to have some better source than snippets put together on YouTube by some kid with nothing better to do than go back and watch hundreds of speeches until he hears something that sounds similar and then cue them up perfectly so it appears that of course he's a fraud. If you want to see what these yahoos can cook up and make look real convincing, look up "9/11 conspiracy" on YouTube...hardly a source.

The Constitution is a living document my friend. There is no way something written in 1789 can infallably dictate how we should proceed in 2009. We've differed with the Constitution a lot, as we were meant to do, thats why there are 27 amendments to the Constitution. In what way does what Obama wants to do differ so much from the Constitution?

[LexLuthor400]

YouTube? Seriously? Why don't you quote Wikipedia while you're at it.

In the link you posted by the way, hardly a word for word "plagarism", the overriding theme is the same yes but what other famous speech one-liners that have the same "call to action" theme would you use? There aren't many, and they aren't even in the same order here. Politicians don't write their own speeches by the way...speechwriters do. Could have been the same speechwriter.

If you look long enough, with the number of speeches that have been given by the many speakers in the world I would be surprised if there was a speech given by anyone you couldn't link back to some other speech given by someone at some point in history.

I have no problem with criticism and being critical of anyone, but you've got to have some better source than snippets put together on YouTube by some kid with nothing better to do than go back and watch hundreds of speeches until he hears something that sounds similar and then cue them up perfectly so it appears that of course he's a fraud. If you want to see what these yahoos can cook up and make look real convincing, look up "9/11 conspiracy" on YouTube...hardly a source.

The Constitution is a living document my friend. There is no way something written in 1789 can infallably dictate how we should proceed in 2009. We've differed with the Constitution a lot, as we were meant to do, thats why there are 27 amendments to the Constitution. In what way does what Obama wants to do differ so much from the Constitution?

Youtube? Does he not say the same thing? Does it matter where it was posted? Or who posted it? Those speeches speak for themselves, because they are real! Now I am not saying that speeches cant have some similarity, but come on this is word for word! Look up the definition of plagiarism, its not just words, its ideas too; if you don't cite your source, like Obama. Obama used those as HIS words, not the original speakers words. Therefore its phony and plagiarized.

Secondly, the Constitution was created in 1787 and ratified in 1788. Your right when you say it is a living document, but if it changes too much throughout history, then what good is it? Where in the Constitution does it say we have a RIGHT to healthcare, or that immigrants can have access to free taxpayer money, or that businesses which took part in risky investments should get a bailout on the taxpayers dime? Or that the government should dictate income taxes that are not apportioned, like they do now. You see, the government is working slowly to change the way our country works, and the only way they can do that is to change the foundation of our democracy, and to do that they will change the Constitution. The Constitution was meant to help those who want to help themselves, but our current culture everyone feels they are ENTITLED to something, so the Constitution can't function the way it used to.

You are right when you say that a old governing document needs to be updated, and I agree; but the basis of the Constitution needs to remain the same, unfortunately it is not. For example: The American auto manufactures Ford, GM, Chrysler and the bailouts recent and past that they have received.

1. In early America if the business failed to make a profit; It went out of business and another start up company took its place.

2. In modern America if the business fails to make a profit; They get a bailout from the government and continue their poor business practices.

Which one is more like the way America was meant to run #1 or #2. Which one is better for new entrepreneurs #1 or #2

I am not just blaming one side of the political parties either. What has happened to this country in the past few decades, is the fault of both parties and I don't think we have seen the depths of what they have done yet. This could be the tip of the iceberg for our economical meltdown. I just feel that Obama has the best chance of changing the Constitution the most, for the worst.

Look at how many businesses outsource jobs to other countries to avoid outrageous double taxation of corporations.

Even small businesses are suffering from taxes and ridiculous regulations.

Look at our national debt, and who we owe it to; it is now $11,700,000,000,000 trillion. Our debt is almost 4 times our yearly income. Could you last long if your debt was 4 times your yearly income and growing?

Look at our over-spending, and how it is not shrinking when it should; like when you have no money.

Look at our country struggling right now, from floating on too much borrowed money.

We need to stop focusing on quick fixes, and start focusing on genuinely rebuilding this country's economy, and that starts with cutting spending and lowering taxes period! You cannot borrow over a trillion dollars, in order to get out of a recession cycle in the economy. Thats is why I think Obama is changing us for the worse, because he wants to do to this country, what are forefathers would have never done.

If you don't think we are changing for the worse, take a look at this, we have been slipping in the past few years. "The Economist" magazine publishes a yearly democracy rating list. The list ranks different countries and how well their democracies operate, civil liberties, electoral process, political awareness and culture. It is very interesting, we are not the only "free" country: http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democracy%20Index%202008.pdf

[SW03ES]

Youtube? Does he not say the same thing? Does it matter where it was posted? Or who posted it? Those speeches speak for themselves, because they are real! Now I am not saying that speeches cant have some similarity, but come on this is word for word! Look up the definition of plagiarism, its not just words, its ideas too; if you don't cite your source, like Obama. Obama used those as HIS words, not the original speakers words. Therefore its phony and plagiarized.

Its not really word for word...like I said.

Secondly, the Constitution was created in 1787 and ratified in 1788.

I could have googled it also.

Where in the Constitution does it say we have a RIGHT to healthcare

It doesn't, but it also doesn't say that blacks have the right to vote...or women...it also says that we have the right to organize a militia and people take that to mean they can take semi-automatic weapons to townhalls with the President of the United States.

Healthcare was simply not an issue back then like it is today. People doctored themselves, they didnt have to pay for MRIs or Cancer treatment...they just died. You cannot argue that our Healthcare system is broken, it may not effect you because you have healthcare but it effects others. Thats why every other industrialized nation on earth offers government subsidized healthcare...but us.

The founding fathers simply could not have concieved the realities of the world we occupy today...

[LEXIRX330]

I have tried to stay out of this one. Oh well. SW how is Mr Obama planning on paying for this? How is the govt doing running SS, Medicare, Medicaid, uh the post office or anything they touch? Talk to most Drs and they will tell you malpractice insurance is running them out of business but it seems tort reform is not even in this bill? Pay back to the trial attorneys....Mr O. What a joke. What is this bill doing to address the problem with the illegals? Not a thing. Obama just wants more govt. The problem with the healthcare industry is simple young people don't think they need it so most don't carry it and the old and sick can't afford it because the younger people are not in the pool to bring down the premiums. Not to mention that we are all paying for the uninsured. By the way if his plan is so good why shouldn't all govt state and federal including him and his family sign up for it? Never it is ok for you and me but not them. Why is the Canadian system running out of money? By the way why is the govt allowed to pick and choose what businesses are allowed to make money and which ones are not? Health insurance companies should not be allowed to make money, but the drug companies are allowed? The govt should not be involved they regulate the insurance industry anyway you do realize that every rate increase has to be approved by the state that the policy is written in.

How would you like it SW if Obama said that real estate companies made too much money and that the govt is going to fix the housing market so they will take over all real estate transactions and people could use them not realtors? The nonprofit companies such as bcbs that he is promoting which I do business with files rate increase after increase. Why is a business making a profit a bad thing uncle Sam sure wants his share of the taxes.

I could keep on but I am tired of typing on my iPhone. One last thing. There are some people that will never have anything, never work for anything the founding fathers would not have let them have a free ride. People need to wake up.

[SW03ES]

How would you like it SW if Obama said that real estate companies made too much money and that the govt is going to fix the housing market so they will take over all real estate transactions and people could use them not realtors? The nonprofit companies such as bcbs that he is promoting which I do business with files rate increase after increase. Why is a business making a profit a bad thing uncle Sam sure wants his share of the taxes.

Thats just a totally different situation. People don't suffer because I need to make money in the Real Estate business. Its really easy to say everything you are saying when you have good insurance that you can afford. I'm a small business owner with employees and I make a lot of money, even I can't afford good healthcare for my employees. I can afford okay healthcare for myself, GOOD healthcare doesn't exist for me at any price. I don't have a problem with these companies making profit but they've taken it too far,

Business making a profit is a great thing, but you know as well as I do these insurance companies are raping the American consumer....AND American doctors. I'm not saying the Democrats plan is the right plan, but SOMETHING has to be done and anyone saying that nothing has to be done is just horribly naiive.

Just because people don't have healthcare doesn't mean that they are deadbeats my friend...it means they aren't fortunate enough to be a part of a group plan. My parents for instance spend nearly $2,000 per month for their healthcare for my father's Medicare supplemental and my mother's healthcare. They are fortunate enough to be able to afford to pay $24,000 per year for healthcare but most people just can't do that.

SOMETHING must be done. The government might F-up Medicare but at least all our senior citizens are insured instead of just left to suffer and die. How is he going to pay for it? I think those of us who can afford to might just have to kick in a little more to pay for it.

The problem with the healthcare industry is simple young people don't think they need it so most don't carry it and the old and sick can't afford it because the younger people are not in the pool to bring down the premiums

You should run for President then...

[LEXIRX330]

Up late too.

Not saying that people that can't afford health insurance are deadbeats. But there are many living off of the system. Sure you can afford to offer a group health plan, you pay 50% and the empolyees pay the other 50. Our company still pays 100% for the empolyee but you have to pay for kids and spouses. Maybe you have to take a higher copay or a HSA but there are plans that people can afford to have health insurance. I bet mist if the people that work for you have cable tv, cell phones, etc it is called responibilities. Now if Medicare is so good why does your dad need a supplemental plan? Why are your parents spending so much money? they choose a better plan same thing. The govt can not run these plans and less and less drs are accepting the plans. You have to insure your car right? Why shouldn't everyone have to have at the least a major health plan. My health plan cost 1k per month for my family. I am glad that I can pay for it, but on top of paying a sh it load of taxes now I should pay for someone elses health insurance. Wait I already do. Taxes. Why is Canadas system running out of money? Have you seen the pay scale fo drs in other countries? TORT Reform. Other countries don't have these bs law suits. Why is it that they the govt won't take this plan themselves?

Yes many many people are suffering right now because of people in the real estate and mtg industry. I am just saying the govt regulates the insurance industry anyway. They approve the plans rates carriers that are admitted what else do you want. They have done a *BLEEP*ty job doing it so far. There have been people that have lost everything and the mtg companies made billions of dollars too.

I would never want to be President but I also never would want to lie for a living either. The one thing that something needs to be done about in regards to healthcare is pre existing conditions. But the states already regulate this so what Obama should be doing is pointing his finger at the state insurance departments to make better regulations. Hell they are regulating insurance anyway. Everyone acts like these companies have been doing whatever they want all along. No accountability.

[SW03ES]

But there are many living off of the system.

Just because there are people living off the system doesn't mean that we can use that as an excuse to avoid the issue.

Sure you can afford to offer a group health plan, you pay 50% and the empolyees pay the other 50. Our company still pays 100% for the empolyee but you have to pay for kids and spouses. Maybe you have to take a higher copay or a HSA but there are plans that people can afford to have health insurance.

Yes you can afford to have health insurance, but not GOOD health insurance. People still worry about their healthcare and paying for doctors visits, still don't go to the doctor when they really should. No dental coverage of any benefit. Even if a policy has a $5,000 out of pocket maximum $5,000 is still a lot of money to most families. Its not good enough. I have a client who is experiencing some weird nerve issue where he cannot talk or move his arms. They discharged him yesterday before they figured out what the issue was and before he could move his limbs because his HMO, not his doctor, decided that he had been in the hospital long enough. THATS the healthcare we can afford.

You may have to pay for your kids and spouses but you buy into your company's plan which is better than any of us can get I would bet, and you buy in at the group rate! I bet your company has more than 5 employees too. if I wanted to offer good insurance to my employees it would cost me $4-5k/mo, and thats with them paying some too. Can't afford that.

I bet mist if the people that work for you have cable tv, cell phones, etc it is called responibilities.

Don't preach to me about responsibilities. Yes its their responsibility and they all have health coverage, but they coverage still leaves them very vulnerable.

Now if Medicare is so good why does your dad need a supplemental plan? Why are your parents spending so much money? they choose a better plan same thing.

Medicare isn't perfect, but its better than nothing. My mother isn't yet Medicare age and my father's Medicare is FAR better than her coverage for herself. Spending so much money? My Mom has a $2,500 deductible and just her coverage is still that high.

They are rich, so they have the option of choosing a better plan. Most people are not as fortunate. Most people have to deal with Medicare and maybe they can afford some cheap supplimental, but probably not. If they get sick...they can't afford the out of pocket maximum so they don't go to the doctor.

If there were no medicare what do you think these people would do?

The govt can not run these plans and less and less drs are accepting the plans.

Thats not really true. My mother owns a medical claims processing business and most doctors still take most plans, unless they live in a very wealthy area and can afford to demand self-pay. In Bethesda for instance...few doctors take Blue Cross...almost everyone takes Medicare because they are actually faster to pay and pay more in general than the private insurers. So I guess the government doesn't do it so bad afterall. According to her, and she would know, Medicare claims are the easiest to get processed and get the doctors paid on...and in many cases they pay the doctors more!

You have to insure your car right? Why shouldn't everyone have to have at the least a major health plan. My health plan cost 1k per month for my family.

Yeah, your employer pays for your healthcare and yopu pay $12,000 per year just for your spouse and children. Thats crazy! Glad you can pay for it....lots of other people aren't so fortunate.

on top ofof paying a sh it load of taxes now I should pay for someone elses health insurance. Wait I already do. Taxes. Why is Canadas system running out of money? Have you seen the pay scale fo drs in other countries? TORT Reform. Other countries don't have these bs law suits. Why is it that they the govt won't take this plan themselves?

Where's your source that Canada's system is running out of money? What about England...France...Canada is not the only system that has a subsidized healthcare plan...in fact like I said we are the only country that doesn't. Yeah I've seen the pay scale for doctors in other countries...its not bad. What you fail to realize is that while you may have to pay out slightly higher in taxes (if you make more than $250,000 per year) but the hope is your overall healthcare costs will go down...

TORT reform is neccisary too, but its not the complete problem and you have to start somewhere.

yes many people are suffering right now because of people in the real estate and mtg industry. I am just saying the govt regulates the insurance industry anyway. They approve the plans rates carriers that are admitted what else do you want. They have done a *BLEEP*ty job doing it so far. There have been people that have lost everything and the mtg companies made billions of dollars too.

Its a totally different thing and you know that. I am selling them a house...not giving them a heart transplant or a mammogram to keep them alive. The real estate and mortgage industries as a whole operate to avoid the very things that happened here because long term its bad for business. The National Association of Realtors is one of the most honorable trade associations I've ever seen. Insurance companies don't operate that way, you've said it yourself. Their lobby is...not one of the most honorable trade associations I've ever seen.

The one thing that something needs to be done about in regards to healthcare is pre existing conditions. But the states already regulate this so what Obama should be doing is pointing his finger at the state insurance departments to make better regulations. Hell they are regulating insurance anyway. Everyone acts like these companies have been doing whatever they want all along. No accountability.

People have been pointing fingers for 40 years...its time for something to be DONE. Enough with pointing fingers.

Have you read the proposals? They're actually pretty good and the public option isn't even a part of all of them.

[LexLuthor400]

But there are many living off of the system.

Just because there are people living off the system doesn't mean that we can use that as an excuse to avoid the issue.

Sure you can afford to offer a group health plan, you pay 50% and the empolyees pay the other 50. Our company still pays 100% for the empolyee but you have to pay for kids and spouses. Maybe you have to take a higher copay or a HSA but there are plans that people can afford to have health insurance.

Yes you can afford to have health insurance, but not GOOD health insurance. People still worry about their healthcare and paying for doctors visits, still don't go to the doctor when they really should. No dental coverage of any benefit. Even if a policy has a $5,000 out of pocket maximum $5,000 is still a lot of money to most families. Its not good enough. I have a client who is experiencing some weird nerve issue where he cannot talk or move his arms. They discharged him yesterday before they figured out what the issue was and before he could move his limbs because his HMO, not his doctor, decided that he had been in the hospital long enough. THATS the healthcare we can afford.

You may have to pay for your kids and spouses but you buy into your company's plan which is better than any of us can get I would bet, and you buy in at the group rate! I bet your company has more than 5 employees too. if I wanted to offer good insurance to my employees it would cost me $4-5k/mo, and thats with them paying some too. Can't afford that.

I bet mist if the people that work for you have cable tv, cell phones, etc it is called responibilities.

Don't preach to me about responsibilities. Yes its their responsibility and they all have health coverage, but they coverage still leaves them very vulnerable.

Now if Medicare is so good why does your dad need a supplemental plan? Why are your parents spending so much money? they choose a better plan same thing.

Medicare isn't perfect, but its better than nothing. My mother isn't yet Medicare age and my father's Medicare is FAR better than her coverage for herself. Spending so much money? My Mom has a $2,500 deductible and just her coverage is still that high.

They are rich, so they have the option of choosing a better plan. Most people are not as fortunate. Most people have to deal with Medicare and maybe they can afford some cheap supplimental, but probably not. If they get sick...they can't afford the out of pocket maximum so they don't go to the doctor.

If there were no medicare what do you think these people would do?

The govt can not run these plans and less and less drs are accepting the plans.

Thats not really true. My mother owns a medical claims processing business and most doctors still take most plans, unless they live in a very wealthy area and can afford to demand self-pay. In Bethesda for instance...few doctors take Blue Cross...almost everyone takes Medicare because they are actually faster to pay and pay more in general than the private insurers. So I guess the government doesn't do it so bad afterall. According to her, and she would know, Medicare claims are the easiest to get processed and get the doctors paid on...and in many cases they pay the doctors more!

You have to insure your car right? Why shouldn't everyone have to have at the least a major health plan. My health plan cost 1k per month for my family.

Yeah, your employer pays for your healthcare and yopu pay $12,000 per year just for your spouse and children. Thats crazy! Glad you can pay for it....lots of other people aren't so fortunate.

on top ofof paying a sh it load of taxes now I should pay for someone elses health insurance. Wait I already do. Taxes. Why is Canadas system running out of money? Have you seen the pay scale fo drs in other countries? TORT Reform. Other countries don't have these bs law suits. Why is it that they the govt won't take this plan themselves?

Where's your source that Canada's system is running out of money? What about England...France...Canada is not the only system that has a subsidized healthcare plan...in fact like I said we are the only country that doesn't. Yeah I've seen the pay scale for doctors in other countries...its not bad. What you fail to realize is that while you may have to pay out slightly higher in taxes (if you make more than $250,000 per year) but the hope is your overall healthcare costs will go down...

TORT reform is neccisary too, but its not the complete problem and you have to start somewhere.

yes many people are suffering right now because of people in the real estate and mtg industry. I am just saying the govt regulates the insurance industry anyway. They approve the plans rates carriers that are admitted what else do you want. They have done a *BLEEP*ty job doing it so far. There have been people that have lost everything and the mtg companies made billions of dollars too.

Its a totally different thing and you know that. I am selling them a house...not giving them a heart transplant or a mammogram to keep them alive. The real estate and mortgage industries as a whole operate to avoid the very things that happened here because long term its bad for business. The National Association of Realtors is one of the most honorable trade associations I've ever seen. Insurance companies don't operate that way, you've said it yourself. Their lobby is...not one of the most honorable trade associations I've ever seen.

The one thing that something needs to be done about in regards to healthcare is pre existing conditions. But the states already regulate this so what Obama should be doing is pointing his finger at the state insurance departments to make better regulations. Hell they are regulating insurance anyway. Everyone acts like these companies have been doing whatever they want all along. No accountability.

People have been pointing fingers for 40 years...its time for something to be DONE. Enough with pointing fingers.

Have you read the proposals? They're actually pretty good and the public option isn't even a part of all of them.

Thats the problem, everyone wants the government to solve their problems!

Please find me one government run program that runs efficiently and without deeper and deeper operating deficits! Our government has an uncanny ability at taxing their way into deeper debt, am I right?

Tort reform is the only way to solve this 'problem'. If Americans were not so lawsuit happy, maybe doctors would not be forced to buy insurance, which the cost of, is just passed onto the patient in the end anyways. So there IS a real solution to the problem, but its not more taxes or more spending, its just common sense.

[LEXIRX330]

First off I did not say that I pay 1 k per month, I said my plan cost 1 k per month. That is for me and my family. The average age of our group is high so that is the main reason it is so expensive. I could actually buy a much better plan on my own if I wanted to but since the company pays a large portion of my health care it is not worth it. Group rates will almost always be higher on a young healthy person vs. individual in MD that is a fact. I run quotes all of the time for people. The group plan may be better but when you add the total cost paid out in premiums it would not be worth it. You get what you pay for and that is the same with everything. I do however feel terrible sorry for people that can not qualify to get a plan do to health conditions but most of the time states have plans that will take them.

Sorry but I am not alone in regards to the people living off of the system. It is getting old. Punish everyone for the actions of a few. SW what is insurance all about? Spreading risk. The more people that have it the lower the premiums should be. If the younger people today decide to go with out insurance then it causes all of us to pay higher premiums. Competition is good but when the govt enters it is not competition it is take over.

Is there any incentive for you to have health insurance?

Well if you don't want to loose everything that you have then yes. But if you rent a home, don't have any assets then is there any penalty or reward for having health insurance? NO this is a problem. When your car is uninsured the state will fine you but no penalty for not having health insurance? DUMB.

Why not preach to you about responsibilities. I am not saying that you are not responsible but the sense of entitlement in this country is. We have a few colleges around us and it is sad seeing these kids come in when their parents plans will no longer cover them because of age. They get a quote of maybe 125/month for a base plan and they are like well I aint paying that much but they are driving new cars, have iphones, etc. They have no clue. If everyone carried some form of health care we wouldn't be in this situation? I talk to hundreds of people each and every year that do not have health insurance. Sure they "can" afford some type of plan. As you just said something is better than nothing. Go ahead tax the businesses and the people making 250k, or 200k, or 150k...see where I am going. A better solution is to create an incentive to have insurance, or a penalty if you don't have it.

If you want proof of the Canadian system starting to run out of money I would suggest watching the news. The head of the Canadian run health plan was on FOX, and CNN talking about the problems with their plan and it running out of money. I saw it a couple of days in a row. I can try to find it on youtoube! :D J/k Did not know we needed to post sources though.

As far as BCBS they are the largest health insurance co in the state of MD. There are not to many DR's that will not accept Carefirst if you want to do a search it is easy www.carefirst.com By the way BCBS is a non profit, what OBAMA wants to use now. So what does that say.

As far as the client that has a HMO that was discharged I am sure he was not thrown out on the street. I am sure he is still getting follow up treatments. Better yet if he did not have health insurance in this country they still would have treated him. So what is your point. Should the plans have no caps, no limits. Do you think the GOVT option will have no copays or deductibles or limits. Check Medicare...all kinds of copays deductibles and such. That is why people like your dad have to buy supplemental plans. And he should also have long term care another expense that this GOVT option is doing little about. You think that your visit to the DR is going to be better with everyone covered under a cookie cutter plan, why do so many people with money come into this country to get surgeries and procedures from other countries that have single payer systems or govt run health care. Canada takes appox 6 months to get tonsils removed. Saw that on fox news too.

Now SW. I am not saying that you did, but there are many, many real estate agents that have sold people homes that they could not afford. It is the fault of the realtor as well as the mtg company. That is like me selling a Umbrella policy to someone working at Wal-Mart making min wage, that has no need for it. The reason I have said anything about this is how would you like the govt to jump in and take over a part of your business? It is not right so I will say one more time. INSURANCE is regulated already by the state that it is sold in. If they want to change it to a federal regulation by all means go for it. Would make my life much easier. This has been proposed year after year and it is kicked out. Make a standard plan and let the federal government regulate it but the only way it will work is to make it mandatory.

Hey SW. Are you still my "friend" J/k

[nc211]

I haven't read all of these replies, skimmed them mostly. Hot topic, for sure!

I'm going to use myself as an example of some of the difference in today's healthcare world.

See that little guy in my avatar? He was born in May of 2008. My insurance is a HMO. My wife was working (where I use to work) up until about 3 months prior to his birth. She was covered by a PPO (I think that's the right name). We were eachother's secondary insurance as well. Her plan would of cost us north of $2,000 out of pocket for the entire process. Mine, you want to know how much it actually cost us out of pocket? You won't believe me, but it's true..... $24 bucks. The first co-pay in month 3, that's it. All the doctor visits, the scans, the delivery, the 3 day hospital stay afterwards, and all the followups for my son....for less then a large pizza at Pizza Hut. My monthly contribution to insure all of us via my employer program? About $150 including vision and dental. Do I think this is fair? Nope. But do I think the sacrafices I've made in my life to position myself to have the career I have - including the benefits associated with it - play a huge part in this? You betcha'! At the end of the day, we're all accountable for the choices and decisions we make and take in this life. You, and you alone. Blaming others, is a loser's game.

But, do I think the healthcare of this country is out of whack and needs some serious help? Yep, 110%. It breaks my heart when I hear or see a person, especially a child or elderly person, who needs medical help but can't get it because they don't have a "card". The world needs ditch diggers too, and I don't think it's fair they can't take care of themselves and their family within the system that we have built, without having to live in a tent and eat out of a dumpster to do it. I make more money than I need, and I'm ok with the idea of having to pay more so those who just dug that ditch in my back yard to prevent it from flooding everytime it rains, can go get their broken arm fixed without having to put one of their kids on craigslist to pay for it. I couldn't care less if it's the government, or a third party admistor to the program. Just get it fixed!! Stop pointing fingers, stop stalling, stop with the !Removed! comments (Rush Limbahl), stop with the socialism mumbo-jumbo, and get that guy to the hospital!

Doctors getting screwed: Seriously? I should feel bad because a person who choose to go into a career path of healing those who need help, is upset because he can't keep his Flying Spur Rolls Royce? Those doctors should have their own healthcare benefits stripped from them for thinking sick people are profit centers to line their own coffers with at the country club.

Not everybody in this country gets to be on the white-collar side of the street. And I do think it's unfair those with the rough hands, strong backs, bad knees, and leaking roofs, are living with one foot in the Chapter 13 coffin if someone gets sick or hurt.

Should be an interesting flu season, especially when Ms. Piggy and her H1N1 buddies show up in a few weeks. If the published estimates of 30,000+ dead this winter from this flu are correct...well...shame on us, shame on this history of ANY nation who was built under the values of "Gives us your sick, your tired, your poor".

That's my $2 cents (adjusted for inflation - minus the deductible).

PS: Had I not decided to take the move to chicago and quit without another job, COBRA would have cost me north of $800/month for a shell of my current plan. That was the final nail in our decision to leave our home and family in NC. I'm a dad, and my boy will have health insurance, period. Don't care if it costs me 20 years off my life. I'm the one to provide, and I'm going to, no matter what! A lesson of responsibility that he too will learn someday when he's earned the title of "DaDa".

[SW03ES]

Thats the problem, everyone wants the government to solve their problems!

Please find me one government run program that runs efficiently and without deeper and deeper operating deficits! Our government has an uncanny ability at taxing their way into deeper debt, am I right?

Tort reform is the only way to solve this 'problem'. If Americans were not so lawsuit happy, maybe doctors would not be forced to buy insurance, which the cost of, is just passed onto the patient in the end anyways. So there IS a real solution to the problem, but its not more taxes or more spending, its just common sense.

I don't specifically want the government to solve the problem, but the problem needs to be solved by somebody.

Tort reform...and thats not the government solving the problem? The government enacts the laws, so essentially it always must solve the problem.

I do however feel terrible sorry for people that can not qualify to get a plan do to health conditions but most of the time states have plans that will take them.

Thats just plain not true. Without a group plan is it practically impossible for someone with pre-existing conditions to get healthcare for those conditions, at least at any reasonable cost.

Sorry but I am not alone in regards to the people living off of the system. It is getting old. Punish everyone for the actions of a few. SW what is insurance all about? Spreading risk. The more people that have it the lower the premiums should be. If the younger people today decide to go with out insurance then it causes all of us to pay higher premiums. Competition is good but when the govt enters it is not competition it is take over.

You know what's funny? That was a integral part of the healthcare plan Obama campaigned on...

Sorry but I am not alone in regards to the people living off of the system. It is getting old. Punish everyone for the actions of a few. SW what is insurance all about? Spreading risk. The more people that have it the lower the premiums should be. If the younger people today decide to go with out insurance then it causes all of us to pay higher premiums. Competition is good but when the govt enters it is not competition it is take over.

I agree with you...but it still has to be affordable.

As far as BCBS they are the largest health insurance co in the state of MD. There are not to many DR's that will not accept Carefirst if you want to do a search it is easy www.carefirst.com By the way BCBS is a non profit, what OBAMA wants to use now. So what does that say.

Most places I agree, but my business partner who also has BCBS was looking for a doctor in Bethesda last week...had a hard time finding someone.

I don't personally have a problem with BCBS, but I have heard some scary things...

Canada takes appox 6 months to get tonsils removed. Saw that on fox news too.

Fox news has positioned themselves pretty opposed to healthcare reform...

To that though I say, non-essential procedures may have a wait...but everyone can have them. MANY families in America can't afford to have Childrens tonsils removed at all.

We're not all that apart you and I, its just a question of how to go about it. I'm not saying a public option is the way to go, and the Democrats aren't even saying that...at least not Obama. What we need is a fair and open exchange which we aren't getting...some sort of meaningful reform must be done. I've heard a lot of ideas I like that don't include a public option. Something having to do with required limits for waiting periods for pre-existing conditions, opening up ability to buy plans across state lines, tax incentives for small businesses to provide healthcare, lots of good ideas we just have to be open to them. I feel that Obama is open to hearing all these ideas, its just many of the idealogues on both sides dig their heels in and just toe the party lines instead of doing what we pay them to do...which is find a consensus...

Now SW. I am not saying that you did, but there are many, many real estate agents that have sold people homes that they could not afford. It is the fault of the realtor as well as the mtg company. That is like me selling a Umbrella policy to someone working at Wal-Mart making min wage, that has no need for it.

This is off topic, but it isn't a Realtor's job to decide for people whether they can afford something or not. In many cases we don't even have any kind of picture of a person's financial strength. We have a pre-approval from a lender that says what they can afford, and we have a financial disclosure that shows they have the cash to put down what they say they are going to put down and pay for their closing costs. Thats it...we're not financial advisors nor do we market ourselves as such. We make sure people have free and fair access to housing and represent them in their purchase or sale of Real Property. We inform them of what their rights are under the law, help them negotiate the terms of any contingencies, and serve as a kind of general contractor overseeing all the facets of the transaction through to closing. The law defines our job as fulfilling the needs and desires of our clients. What they can and cannot afford is up to them to decide, not us. Any decisions they make are their decisions, and its really not our business to poke into their affairs or tell them what to do.

If someone asks me what they can afford, I tell them that I and their loan officer can help determine what a bank will approve them for in terms of a loan, but if they want advice as to what is a smart financial decision for them and their specific situation...I refer them to my accountant and my financial advisor. It would be illegal for me to give them advice on those fronts because I am neither qualified nor licensed to do so.

You are a little different, because it is your job to interpret your client's insurance needs as pertains to their net worth and income. Thats not my job. My job is to find them the house they want and make sure that their interests are represented in terms of negotiating the deal. Thats it.