Help! Alignment Issues And I Need Some Advice!

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[bartkat]

[smooth1]

This is a forum that obviously has lots of different folks. Some are very enthusiastic about their cars, some consider them just a very nice daily driver. Some wax the crap out of them, baby them, work on them, modify them, and really enjoy the automotive excellence, and others probably just drive them, have them serviced and after a couple years, trade them in.

I am very happy with the car. As I've said a number of times, I think the IS250/350 is one of the most advanced and "goody-filled" cars in its class. Very sexy. Fuel effiecient. Fun car to drive. And very high quality for $38,000. Arguably state-of-the-art.

My point was that even though Lexus is currently rated by firms like JD Powers at the highest dependability rating, it still does not mean that the people who complain dont' have a valid complaint. I don't car if I was the only person on this site that experienced the short life of those tires, it's very real to me and I was very dissappointed in Lexus. If the tires had preformed to 30,000 miles (without cupping and under the recommended service by Lexus to rebalance every 5,000 miles), I probably would have felt OK.

I wonder.... were the tires defective? Was the front end suspension defective or had a factory alignment problem? Or... is this an engineering design flaw by Lexus? I know that the Continental ExtremContacts that I put on are going to last much longer than 20,000 miles!

How can it be justfied that an new IS250 goes through front tires in 15K or 20K miles? It appears to be technologically inconsistent. I think it was just a foolish mistake by Lexus to put very low milege "sticky" tires on that car from the factory. Perhaps is should have been a purchase option.

In over 40 years of driving and owning many vehicles, The Lexus was the first new car I bought that the front tires cupped after 20K miles!! Are we not living in the most advanced era in automotive engineering history!!??

Like Stevie said about the IS not having front end camber adjustment, that again appears to be technologically inconsistent.

As a consumer, do I not have the right to question the quality of what I'm buying?

That's just my worthless opinion. :D

[dcfish]

After reading the entire topic, All I can say is WOW !!! :snoooorrrtttt:

[Sidney07]

FWIW, the alignment/tire wear issue was one of the reasons my wife traded in her 07 for an 09. Only had 24K on it, but you could see the beginnings of some very odd tire wear. Tire rotation was done every 5K, and yet the inside tread of every tire had an unusual inside tread wear.

We'll see what the 09 will do, but with all the folks having similar issues, there is something up with the tire wear/alignment on the IS.

[freakychakra]

I too have a similar problem with my 2007 IS 350 (X Pkg) at 17,000 miles. Uneven front tire wear that the Lexus Service Dept indicates that may be due to misalignment or just due to the nature of performance tires combined with the car's setup. Was advised to get new front tires and have the alignment checked to see if the alignment is indeed at fault. The dealer reported that the GS has the same issue and other performance cars like BMWs also have the same problem. Was surprised by this since other people in the family with BMWs (M5 and 335 coupe) don't seem to have the same problem, at least not yet.

One person who posted before indicated that they had their alignment done under warranty. That wasn't offered to me, any suggestions on how to argue that the alignment check should be covered under warranty?

I have the stock Bridgestone Potenza's (staggered) which is already emitting more road noise. Any suggestions on whether I should change the front two and change all 4 when the front two wears out in another 17K miles or should I swap out all 4 now? Considering switching to high perf. all seasons.

Any suggestions on whether I can have the alignment adjusted to increase tire wear while sacrificing some performance on handling as I don't drive the car through slalom courses much? I've read that adjustments to the toe in/out can do that but the numbers and terms absolutely baffle me.

Finally, I was also told that my front brake pads had around 30% left and a front brake job would be $314. Is this the norm or am I getting hosed? Pads can't be that expensive but does the brake job include turning or machining the rotors. I didn't think doing anything to rotors were necessary since there's still pad left but I've also read that it should always be done to ensure the rotors are flat and doesn't cause pulsations when braking in the future. Any insight into that?

Ultimately, am pretty disappointed and surprised to find out that I need to replace the front tires so frequently. Especially since I still consider the car to be pretty new.

[smooth1]

I too have a similar problem with my 2007 IS 350 (X Pkg) at 17,000 miles. Uneven front tire wear that the Lexus Service Dept indicates that may be due to misalignment or just due to the nature of performance tires combined with the car's setup. Was advised to get new front tires and have the alignment checked to see if the alignment is indeed at fault. The dealer reported that the GS has the same issue and other performance cars like BMWs also have the same problem. Was surprised by this since other people in the family with BMWs (M5 and 335 coupe) don't seem to have the same problem, at least not yet.

One person who posted before indicated that they had their alignment done under warranty. That wasn't offered to me, any suggestions on how to argue that the alignment check should be covered under warranty?

I have the stock Bridgestone Potenza's (staggered) which is already emitting more road noise. Any suggestions on whether I should change the front two and change all 4 when the front two wears out in another 17K miles or should I swap out all 4 now? Considering switching to high perf. all seasons.

Any suggestions on whether I can have the alignment adjusted to increase tire wear while sacrificing some performance on handling as I don't drive the car through slalom courses much? I've read that adjustments to the toe in/out can do that but the numbers and terms absolutely baffle me.

Finally, I was also told that my front brake pads had around 30% left and a front brake job would be $314. Is this the norm or am I getting hosed? Pads can't be that expensive but does the brake job include turning or machining the rotors. I didn't think doing anything to rotors were necessary since there's still pad left but I've also read that it should always be done to ensure the rotors are flat and doesn't cause pulsations when braking in the future. Any insight into that?

Ultimately, am pretty disappointed and surprised to find out that I need to replace the front tires so frequently. Especially since I still consider the car to be pretty new.

So you didn't sign an acknowledgement informing you that the car came with peformance tires and what that means?

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[freakychakra]

I too have a similar problem with my 2007 IS 350 (X Pkg) at 17,000 miles. Uneven front tire wear that the Lexus Service Dept indicates that may be due to misalignment or just due to the nature of performance tires combined with the car's setup. Was advised to get new front tires and have the alignment checked to see if the alignment is indeed at fault. The dealer reported that the GS has the same issue and other performance cars like BMWs also have the same problem. Was surprised by this since other people in the family with BMWs (M5 and 335 coupe) don't seem to have the same problem, at least not yet.

One person who posted before indicated that they had their alignment done under warranty. That wasn't offered to me, any suggestions on how to argue that the alignment check should be covered under warranty?

I have the stock Bridgestone Potenza's (staggered) which is already emitting more road noise. Any suggestions on whether I should change the front two and change all 4 when the front two wears out in another 17K miles or should I swap out all 4 now? Considering switching to high perf. all seasons.

Any suggestions on whether I can have the alignment adjusted to increase tire wear while sacrificing some performance on handling as I don't drive the car through slalom courses much? I've read that adjustments to the toe in/out can do that but the numbers and terms absolutely baffle me.

Finally, I was also told that my front brake pads had around 30% left and a front brake job would be $314. Is this the norm or am I getting hosed? Pads can't be that expensive but does the brake job include turning or machining the rotors. I didn't think doing anything to rotors were necessary since there's still pad left but I've also read that it should always be done to ensure the rotors are flat and doesn't cause pulsations when braking in the future. Any insight into that?

Ultimately, am pretty disappointed and surprised to find out that I need to replace the front tires so frequently. Especially since I still consider the car to be pretty new.

So you didn't sign an acknowledgement informing you that the car came with peformance tires and what that means?

I do realize that performance comes with a price and am willing to pay for it if it's necessary. Just looking for some suggestions from people that may have some more experience and it seems that you have obviously do. So I thank you for your comment. That was really helpful!

[bartkat]

The expected tire wear thing is published in several places including the owners manual.

The brake pads on almost all IS350's ought to come under the brake dust/squeel TSB.

[dcfish]

After reading the entire topic, All I can say is WOW !!! :snoooorrrtttt:

dcfish,

Perhaps you shouldn't read a complex thread after you've snorted??

Bucks snort, Not me, Heck even my dog snorts every now and then

[smooth1]

I too have a similar problem with my 2007 IS 350 (X Pkg) at 17,000 miles. Uneven front tire wear that the Lexus Service Dept indicates that may be due to misalignment or just due to the nature of performance tires combined with the car's setup. Was advised to get new front tires and have the alignment checked to see if the alignment is indeed at fault. The dealer reported that the GS has the same issue and other performance cars like BMWs also have the same problem. Was surprised by this since other people in the family with BMWs (M5 and 335 coupe) don't seem to have the same problem, at least not yet.

One person who posted before indicated that they had their alignment done under warranty. That wasn't offered to me, any suggestions on how to argue that the alignment check should be covered under warranty?

I have the stock Bridgestone Potenza's (staggered) which is already emitting more road noise. Any suggestions on whether I should change the front two and change all 4 when the front two wears out in another 17K miles or should I swap out all 4 now? Considering switching to high perf. all seasons.

Any suggestions on whether I can have the alignment adjusted to increase tire wear while sacrificing some performance on handling as I don't drive the car through slalom courses much? I've read that adjustments to the toe in/out can do that but the numbers and terms absolutely baffle me.

Finally, I was also told that my front brake pads had around 30% left and a front brake job would be $314. Is this the norm or am I getting hosed? Pads can't be that expensive but does the brake job include turning or machining the rotors. I didn't think doing anything to rotors were necessary since there's still pad left but I've also read that it should always be done to ensure the rotors are flat and doesn't cause pulsations when braking in the future. Any insight into that?

Ultimately, am pretty disappointed and surprised to find out that I need to replace the front tires so frequently. Especially since I still consider the car to be pretty new.

So you didn't sign an acknowledgement informing you that the car came with peformance tires and what that means?

I do realize that performance comes with a price and am willing to pay for it if it's necessary. Just looking for some suggestions from people that may have some more experience and it seems that you have obviously do. So I thank you for your comment. That was really helpful!

I asked the question I did because in your post you stated:

Ultimately, am pretty disappointed and surprised to find out that I need to replace the front tires so frequently.

So I was just trying to clarify here that it doesn't sound like you have a problem with the car. It's not like you have been driving the car misaligned, straight from the dealer and as a result have excessive tire wear. The tires on the car don't even come from the Bridgestone factory with a mileage warrentee. Here's the reviews on the tire, note, everyone has gotten about 20k miles on these tires no matter what car they were on: bridgestone Potenza So it's not the cars fault. And I think the dealership performed this service for the OP as a courtesy, and wrote it off. I promise Lexus never got that bill. So how are you going to get them to perform a "warrentee" alignment on something that isn't broke? You got 17k miles on tires that are rated to get about that. Your really in the middle of the pack here. Where you should be.

If you want tire that last longer, then get tires that last longer. So I would ivestigate the Goodyear Response Edge tires. I would also consider Avons or Michelins. I've heard some good things about that tire. There are a few others as well, but just keep in mind, you'll be giving up quite a bit for a longer lasting tire. I hate that mushy steering feeling. But if your ok with that, then you can save a few bucks I guess.

[greentingray]

I have owned many cars, some were pretty bad, but the problem with this one its expensive and I think people have to stop drinking the Kool-aid. I currently own 2008 ponitac g6 25,000 miles I have not had to bring it back to dealer at all. The tires are not wearing on the inside, its a low cost car but you know what it more advanced than the lexus, and the engine isnt a rattle trap. I also own 2006 jeep liberty, again not an expensive car but you know what its better than the lexus. BTW I just received 3 recall notices on the lexus its in the shop again, fuel rail, rear brakes, and power steering. You bet the next is going to be a domestic.

[bartkat]

The expected tire wear thing is published in several places including the owners manual.

The brake pads on almost all IS350's ought to come under the brake dust/squeel TSB.

Bartkat,

When you bought your IS and before signing the purchase documents -- did you open the Owner's Manual and read the part about the tire mileage? Let's do a survey.... how many people that buy a new car, before signing the documents, actually open up the Owner's Manual and read it before signing?

The fact that it's published in a little blurb in the Owner's Manual doesn't change the fact, not does it justify, that most car buyers probably don't ask "How many miles will I get on those tires? It also doesn't make if OK that the tires, high performance or not, wear out in less than 20K miles on a supposedly high quality luxury 4-door sedan. 99.99% of the owners of an IS250 probably never drive it over 80 MPH and probably don't drive it hard enough to exceed the traction limits of ANY tire that would be recommended or available for this car in a proper weather condition application.

Should you be an informed and enlightened consumer, heck yeah!!

I studied all I could find about the car for over a year before it was introduced. When I went to buy the first one in I knew more about it than most, if not all of the people working at the dealership. All that stuff you people think are surprises were in magazine and online articles way before the cars hit the market. If not that, just go look on tire rack or someplace and see the treadwear ratings for tires of this type. Many people moved up from IS300's which had a much worse front tire wear thing than the 2nd gen cars.

Stop trying to play cub reporter consumer advocate here and accept the fact that many people don't inform themselves prior to making the second biggest purchase they ever make, but then when they find stuff out, just like to whine and try to blame someone else for their own ignorance.

Lots of those same people get a car with a manual and don't even read that. The evidence is posted all over this forum in the form of questions easily answered by just opening and reading that manual. There ain't nobody to blame here but the owners.

[tex2670]

The expected tire wear thing is published in several places including the owners manual.

The brake pads on almost all IS350's ought to come under the brake dust/squeel TSB.

Bartkat,

When you bought your IS and before signing the purchase documents -- did you open the Owner's Manual and read the part about the tire mileage? Let's do a survey.... how many people that buy a new car, before signing the documents, actually open up the Owner's Manual and read it before signing?

The fact that it's published in a little blurb in the Owner's Manual doesn't change the fact, not does it justify, that most car buyers probably don't ask "How many miles will I get on those tires? It also doesn't make if OK that the tires, high performance or not, wear out in less than 20K miles on a supposedly high quality luxury 4-door sedan. 99.99% of the owners of an IS250 probably never drive it over 80 MPH and probably don't drive it hard enough to exceed the traction limits of ANY tire that would be recommended or available for this car in a proper weather condition application.

Should you be an informed and enlightened consumer, heck yeah!!

Sure--no one reads the manual before buying. I looked at the website and the pretty color brochure--both had footnotes on the specs page that clearly said 17" tires may not last beyond 20k miles, and 18" tires may not last beyond 15k miles. If you aren't going to even look through basic information on the car's specs, there's really not much to complain about.

[10]17-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 20,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[11]18-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may substantially be less than 15,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[bartkat]

Plenty don't read the manual after buying either.

[tex2670]

Wow..., now I've been reduced to a member "trying to play a cub reporter consumer advocate"... :(

I've been duly admonished to "stop". And.... I don't even get awarded the distinction of a full fledged "cub", I'm only trying to "play" one!! :o

It's interesting that when one of the members posts comments that has an opposing view, different experience, or just plain has an alternate perspective to the moderators' or management view on a certain topic of discussion, and the thread gets into expanded discussion, how quickly it becomes apparent that the member(s) with opposing views are put down. In many cases - just plain disrespectfully and with an arrogant condescending tone.

bartkat, you may be the most knowledgeable person on this site on what is published on your Lexus, and since you so profoundly advocate self-education, perhaps your should open a manual and do some research into how to respect other members. B)

...and I thought it was just me that noticed (and was a lighting rod for) the above mentioned behavior. It certainly gets in the way of trying to be productive and informative to fellow members.

I think Bartkat's point is completely valid. I'm all for being "productive and informative" on this Forum, but posting how you believe you've been wronged by Lexus for something that you should have known before you purchase does not accomplish that goal. Here's the "fine print" off of the Specs page for the IS:

Specifications, features, equipment, technical data, performance figures, options, and color and trim are based upon information available at time of posting, are subject to change without notice, are for mainland U.S.A. vehicles and may differ in the state of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and in other regions.

Some vehicles shown with optional equipment. Optional equipment listed may not be available separately or in all regions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details. Lexus reminds you to wear seatbelts, secure children in rear seat, obey all traffic laws and drive responsibly.

For more information, call 800-USA-LEXUS (872-5398). To learn more about your financing options, contact your Lexus dealer or call Lexus Financial Services at 800-874-7050.

[1]MSRP does not include delivery, processing and handling fee of $825. Excludes taxes, title, license and optional equipment. Dealer price may vary. [2]"Delivery, processing and handling fee" is based on the value of the processing, handling and delivery services Lexus provides, as well as Lexus' overall pricing structure. Lexus may make a profit on the delivery, processing and handling fee.

[3]Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease.

[4]Performance figures are for comparison only and were obtained with prototype vehicles by professional drivers using special safety equipment and procedures. Do not attempt.

[5]EPA MPG Estimates. Actual mileage will vary.

[6]Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VDIM will be effective in preventing a loss of control. Please see your Owner's Manual for further details.

[7]Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VSC will be effective in preventing a loss of control. Please see your Owner's Manual for further details.

[8]Brake Assist is designed to help the driver take full advantage of the benefits of ABS. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Braking effectiveness also depends on proper brake-system maintenance and tire and road conditions.

[9]High-friction brakes are standard equipment for the front brakes only and require periodic inspection and measurement as outlined in the Warranty and Services Guide. The pads and rotors are expected to experience greater wear than conventional brakes. Pad life may be less than 20,000 miles, and brake rotor life may be less than 50,000 miles depending on driving conditions.

[10]17-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 20,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[11]18-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may substantially be less than 15,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[12]All the airbag (“AB”) systems are Supplemental Restraint Systems. All ABs (if installed) are designed to inflate only under certain conditions and in certain types of severe collisions: frontal and knee ABs typically inflate in frontal collisions; side and side curtain ABs in side collisions; Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs at a severe tilt degree, roll or lateral G-force. In all other accidents, the ABs will not inflate. To decrease the risk of injury from an inflating AB, always wear seatbelts, sit upright in the middle of the seat as far back as possible and do not lean against the door. Do not put objects in front of an AB or around the seatback. Do not use a rearward-facing child seat in any front passenger seat. The force of an inflating AB may cause serious injury or death. Please see your Owner’s Manual for further information/warnings.

[13]The Pre-Collision System is designed to help reduce the crash speed and damage in certain frontal collisions only. It is not a collision-avoidance system and is not a substitute for safe and attentive driving. System effectiveness depends on many factors, such as speed, driver input and road conditions. Please see your Owner's Manual for further information.

[14]The Lexus Tire Pressure Monitor System alerts the driver when tire pressure is critically low. For optimal tire wear and performance, tire pressure should be checked regularly with a gauge; do not rely solely on the monitor system. Please see your Owner's Manual for details.

[15]The backup camera does not provide a comprehensive view of the rear area of the vehicle. You should also look around outside your vehicle and use your mirrors to confirm rearward clearance. Cold weather will limit effectiveness and view may become cloudy.

[16]The engine immobilizer is a state-of-the-art anti-theft system. The key transmits an electronic code to the vehicle. The engine will only start if the code in the transponder chip inside the key matches the code in the vehicle’s immobilizer. Because the transponder chip is embedded in the key, it can be costly to replace. If you lose a key, your Lexus dealer can help, or you can find a qualified independent locksmith to perform high security key services at www.aloa.org.

[17]The Lexus Personalized Settings (LPS) Program is a one-time, complimentary offer for the first 12 months from the date the vehicle is sold. Please see your Lexus dealer for more information.

[18]Dynamic Radar Cruise Control is designed to assist the driver and is not a substitute for safe and attentive driving practices. Please see your Owner's Manual for important instructions and cautions.

[19]The Navigation System is designed to assist in locating an address or point of interest. Discrepancies may be encountered between the system and your actual location. Road system changes may affect the accuracy of the information provided. Rely on your common sense to decide whether to follow a specified route. Detailed coverage not available in every city or roadway. Periodic updates available at an additional cost. Please see your Navigation System Owner's Manual for further details.

[20]The Bluetooth® technology phones listed on lexus.com have been tested for compatibility with Lexus vehicles. Performance will vary based on phone software version, coverage and your wireless carrier. Phones are warranted by their manufacturer, not Lexus.

[21]The SmartAccess system may interfere with some pacemakers or cardiac defibrillators. If you have one of these medical devices, please talk to your doctor to see if you should deactivate this system.

[22]Mark Levinson is a registered trademark of Harman International Industries, Inc.

[23]Continuous average power, all channels driven, at less than 0.1% THD; 20–20,000 Hz.

[24]iPod is a registered trademark of Apple Inc.

[25]Satellite Radio requires XM® or SIRIUS® compatible receiver and a subscription service fee after trial. Vehicles without a factory-installed radio receiver require hardware purchase and installation. Please see your Lexus dealer for further details. All fees and programming subject to change. Subscriptions subject to the XM Customer Agreement available at www.xmradio.com or the SIRIUS Terms & Conditions available at www.sirius.com. Available only in the 48 contiguous United States and the District of Columbia.

[26]Interface kit for iPod® and XM® Radio services are not compatible and are not available in conjunction with one another.

[27]Coverage only available in the continental U.S. and Canada. Please see your Lexus dealer for details.

People complain about all the "fine print" and all the legalease, but then completely ignore it, and try and blame the dealer or salesperson when they find out later about something that was "disclosed" to them. Why do you think these footnotes keep growing?? Because people keep finding something to complain [OR SUE!]about that they "weren't told before they bought the car".

THAT, I believe, is Bartkat's point (of course, he will correct me if I misinterpreted).

[tex2670]

Asking people what features, options, colors, etc they like and don't like about their cars for the purpose of constant improvement is an excellent example of why Toyota is rated so highly--AND has abosolutely ZERO to do with what got this whole Magilla started--the "warning" about early wear of tires. Constructive comments and feedback to Toyota are completely unrelated to a footnote warning you that you shouldn't rely on the backup camera (as an example), and you should note your surroundings--because, without it, someone WILL start a class action lawsuit because they hit something relying on the camera.

There's a distinct difference between reaching out to Toyota and telling them that you would prefer they use 50 or 55 series tires which may last longer, rather than the lower profile tires, vs pointing the finger "why didn't you tell me my tires wouldn't last 20k miles". If enough people give construtive feedback they may make a change. But merely blaming Lexus for failing to diligence your automotive purchase is not right.

How can it be justfied that an new IS250 goes through front tires in 15K or 20K miles? It appears to be technologically inconsistent. I think it was just a foolish mistake by Lexus to put very low milege "sticky" tires on that car from the factory. Perhaps it should have been a purchase option.

If you want a performance-oriented sports sedan that competes with a BMW 3-Series, some compromises are needed--that may include sport tires. You noted that Lexus could have offered a non-sport tire option. In a focus group, you could note to Lexus that you might have preferred that option. Lexus didn't offer it to you, but you bought the IS anyway, rather than opt for another car with touring tires, such as an ES. So it wasn't that important to you then--and now that the warning has come true you are "very disappointed in them."

[lexusIS72]

OK....I started this post, but you guys have DEFINITELY "run with it"! ;)

I just returned home from my Lexus dealer and after having my '07 IS for 4 days, they were ready to sit down with me and find a solution to the problem I have with this vehicle. Like I said in my first post, when I purchased this car I was fully aware not to expect the tires on this car to last anymore than 15k. I had no problem with that. I am not one of those who is whining because I didn't look into what I was buying!! However in two years of having the vehicle it became evident that the front tires were only lasting for about 6,000 miles before the car began to make EXTREME road noise and handled rather erraticly. When the tires were taken off we were told they were extremely cupped although the back tires didn't show evidence of the cupping. My issue with Lexus and this car is that while I could get 15,000 miles on my back tires, I would need to change out my front tires every 6,000 miles for the car to handle like a luxury sports sedan. That to me does not come close to being acceptable for the fine print from the manual that states "substantially less than 15,000 miles". IMO 6,000 miles is way beyond substantially less than.

To make a long story short, Lexus believes they could not adjust the vehicle to our satisfaction because the camber, etc. could not be adjusted on the car. So, instead I am now the owner of an '09 IS250 WITHOUT the sports package. (As I was talking to the salesperson that sold me the original '07, he made the comment that he believes the suspension of the '09 should give me no problem, and he "wondered" if the sports package on the '07 didn't play a role in what was happening to the front tires on that car). WHAT?!?! I had just listened for 2 hrs. that they truly didn't believe there was a suspension problem with my car but they were willing to do whatever they could to make us happy. Anyway, after a huge amount of discussion and options being thrown around, Lexus basically gave me enough for my '07 to put me in the '09 at the same payment even though we are not putting any money down. I know that they can make these huge "discounts" and still make a profit, and now I'll have two more years of payments (but I've also got a brand new car again), but I think overall we were treated very fairly. I can't complain about their willingness to help us through this issue.

I am willing to at least try again, and I'm sure I won't have the same bad luck with this next car, but I'll still be holding my breath somewhere around that 6,000 mile mark!! Wish me luck! :o

[bartkat]

OK....I started this post, but you guys have DEFINITELY "run with it"! ;)

I just returned home from my Lexus dealer and after having my '07 IS for 4 days, they were ready to sit down with me and find a solution to the problem I have with this vehicle. Like I said in my first post, when I purchased this car I was fully aware not to expect the tires on this car to last anymore than 15k. I had no problem with that. I am not one of those who is whining because I didn't look into what I was buying!! However in two years of having the vehicle it became evident that the front tires were only lasting for about 6,000 miles before the car began to make EXTREME road noise and handled rather erraticly. When the tires were taken off we were told they were extremely cupped although the back tires didn't show evidence of the cupping. My issue with Lexus and this car is that while I could get 15,000 miles on my back tires, I would need to change out my front tires every 6,000 miles for the car to handle like a luxury sports sedan. That to me does not come close to being acceptable for the fine print from the manual that states "substantially less than 15,000 miles". IMO 6,000 miles is way beyond substantially less than.

To make a long story short, Lexus believes they could not adjust the vehicle to our satisfaction because the camber, etc. could not be adjusted on the car. So, instead I am now the owner of an '09 IS250 WITHOUT the sports package. (As I was talking to the salesperson that sold me the original '07, he made the comment that he believes the suspension of the '09 should give me no problem, and he "wondered" if the sports package on the '07 didn't play a role in what was happening to the front tires on that car). WHAT?!?! I had just listened for 2 hrs. that they truly didn't believe there was a suspension problem with my car but they were willing to do whatever they could to make us happy. Anyway, after a huge amount of discussion and options being thrown around, Lexus basically gave me enough for my '07 to put me in the '09 at the same payment even though we are not putting any money down. I know that they can make these huge "discounts" and still make a profit, and now I'll have two more years of payments (but I've also got a brand new car again), but I think overall we were treated very fairly. I can't complain about their willingness to help us through this issue.

I am willing to at least try again, and I'm sure I won't have the same bad luck with this next car, but I'll still be holding my breath somewhere around that 6,000 mile mark!! Wish me luck! :o

Good luck. :)

[bartkat]

Stop trying to play cub reporter consumer advocate here and accept the fact that many people don't inform themselves prior to making the second biggest purchase they ever make, but then when they find stuff out, just like to whine and try to blame someone else for their own ignorance.

Wow..., now I've been reduced to a member "trying to play a cub reporter consumer advocate"... :(

I've been duly admonished to "stop". And.... I don't even get awarded the distinction of a full fledged "cub", I'm only trying to "play" one!! :o

It's interesting that when one of the members posts comments that has an opposing view, different experience, or just plain has an alternate perspective to the moderators' or management view on a certain topic of discussion, and the thread gets into expanded discussion, how quickly it becomes apparent that the member(s) with opposing views are put down. In many cases - just plain disrespectfully and with an arrogant condescending tone.

bartkat, you may be the most knowledgeable person on this site on what is published on your Lexus, and since you so profoundly advocate self-education, perhaps your should open a manual and do some research into how to respect other members. B)

My posts here, unless otherwise stated, are either my personal opinion or facts, just like any other member. Next time you buy a car or any other mechanical or electronic device perhaps you could go to the factory and sign off on each critical part before it's installed or added on to the product. Then there would be no one else to blame about not being informed.

[bartkat]

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Or, as I'm sure one of you highly informed and self-educated fellow cool-aid drinking members will comment....

perhaps I'm drinking waaaayyyy too much cool-aid!!!!!!!!

P.S. I keep waiting for the censorship, "this thread is closed".... "ban hammer" to appear!! :P

Unconstructive criticism of management/moderators actions and statements will get you a long way on most any forum, be it automotive or otherwise.

Did you ever stop to think that many or even most of the Toyota/Lexus TSB's might be preemptive fixes, just to keep the brand quality up? I expect many other manufacturers might just let things like that go and never put out a bulletin, or at least keep them in house, until of if they resulted in numerous or major problems down the road. So maybe the number for "our" cars might be higher than some other brand for that very reason.

[smooth1]

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Or, as I'm sure one of you highly informed and self-educated fellow cool-aid drinking members will comment....

perhaps I'm drinking waaaayyyy too much cool-aid!!!!!!!!

P.S. I keep waiting for the censorship, "this thread is closed".... "ban hammer" to appear!! :P

Unconstructive criticism of management/moderators actions and statements will get you a long way on most any forum, be it automotive or otherwise.

Did you ever stop to think that many or even most of the Toyota/Lexus TSB's might be preemptive fixes, just to keep the brand quality up? I expect many other manufacturers might just let things like that go and never put out a bulletin, or at least keep them in house, until of if they resulted in numerous or major problems down the road. So maybe the number for "our" cars might be higher than some other brand for that very reason.

Actually, I was quite impressed by the number for Lexus. GM had 1700, Ford had over 2k, Dodge had over 1k, even BMW was 6 times higher than Lexus. MB didn't fair very well, and I was surprised to see Lexus beat Acura also. Of course I'm sure someone who thinks they know something is going to point at Kia and say Ah ha! as I'm sure they already knew that the list is from 1990- present, and seeing as how Kia didn't incorperate until 1992, and thier first import to the US was in 1994, of which they only had the Sophia and that small SUV, (I forget the name) oh yeah, Sportage, which didn't sell until 1996, and then of course Kia went Bankrupt in 1997, and was bought out by Hyundai. But hey, they have fewer "recalls" then Lexus, so they must be a better car mfgr who listens to thier customers better. And I'm sure they get great tire longevity on thier models. So, therefore all the laws of physics are just crap and meaningless because if Kia can do it, then why can't Porsche? I mean Ferarri. Oh, sorry, we were just talking about Lexus here right?

[smooth1]

Wow..., now I've been reduced to a member "trying to play a cub reporter consumer advocate"... :(

I've been duly admonished to "stop". And.... I don't even get awarded the distinction of a full fledged "cub", I'm only trying to "play" one!! :o

It's interesting that when one of the members posts comments that has an opposing view, different experience, or just plain has an alternate perspective to the moderators' or management view on a certain topic of discussion, and the thread gets into expanded discussion, how quickly it becomes apparent that the member(s) with opposing views are put down. In many cases - just plain disrespectfully and with an arrogant condescending tone.

bartkat, you may be the most knowledgeable person on this site on what is published on your Lexus, and since you so profoundly advocate self-education, perhaps your should open a manual and do some research into how to respect other members. B)

...and I thought it was just me that noticed (and was a lighting rod for) the above mentioned behavior. It certainly gets in the way of trying to be productive and informative to fellow members.

I think Bartkat's point is completely valid. I'm all for being "productive and informative" on this Forum, but posting how you believe you've been wronged by Lexus for something that you should have known before you purchase does not accomplish that goal. Here's the "fine print" off of the Specs page for the IS:

Specifications, features, equipment, technical data, performance figures, options, and color and trim are based upon information available at time of posting, are subject to change without notice, are for mainland U.S.A. vehicles and may differ in the state of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and in other regions.

Some vehicles shown with optional equipment. Optional equipment listed may not be available separately or in all regions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details. Lexus reminds you to wear seatbelts, secure children in rear seat, obey all traffic laws and drive responsibly.

For more information, call 800-USA-LEXUS (872-5398). To learn more about your financing options, contact your Lexus dealer or call Lexus Financial Services at 800-874-7050.

[1]MSRP does not include delivery, processing and handling fee of $825. Excludes taxes, title, license and optional equipment. Dealer price may vary. [2]"Delivery, processing and handling fee" is based on the value of the processing, handling and delivery services Lexus provides, as well as Lexus' overall pricing structure. Lexus may make a profit on the delivery, processing and handling fee.

[3]Ratings achieved using the required premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher. If premium fuel is not used, performance will decrease.

[4]Performance figures are for comparison only and were obtained with prototype vehicles by professional drivers using special safety equipment and procedures. Do not attempt.

[5]EPA MPG Estimates. Actual mileage will vary.

[6]Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VDIM will be effective in preventing a loss of control. Please see your Owner's Manual for further details.

[7]Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VSC will be effective in preventing a loss of control. Please see your Owner's Manual for further details.

[8]Brake Assist is designed to help the driver take full advantage of the benefits of ABS. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Braking effectiveness also depends on proper brake-system maintenance and tire and road conditions.

[9]High-friction brakes are standard equipment for the front brakes only and require periodic inspection and measurement as outlined in the Warranty and Services Guide. The pads and rotors are expected to experience greater wear than conventional brakes. Pad life may be less than 20,000 miles, and brake rotor life may be less than 50,000 miles depending on driving conditions.

[10]17-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 20,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[11]18-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may substantially be less than 15,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions.

[12]All the airbag ("AB") systems are Supplemental Restraint Systems. All ABs (if installed) are designed to inflate only under certain conditions and in certain types of severe collisions: frontal and knee ABs typically inflate in frontal collisions; side and side curtain ABs in side collisions; Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs at a severe tilt degree, roll or lateral G-force. In all other accidents, the ABs will not inflate. To decrease the risk of injury from an inflating AB, always wear seatbelts, sit upright in the middle of the seat as far back as possible and do not lean against the door. Do not put objects in front of an AB or around the seatback. Do not use a rearward-facing child seat in any front passenger seat. The force of an inflating AB may cause serious injury or death. Please see your Owner's Manual for further information/warnings.

[13]The Pre-Collision System is designed to help reduce the crash speed and damage in certain frontal collisions only. It is not a collision-avoidance system and is not a substitute for safe and attentive driving. System effectiveness depends on many factors, such as speed, driver input and road conditions. Please see your Owner's Manual for further information.

[14]The Lexus Tire Pressure Monitor System alerts the driver when tire pressure is critically low. For optimal tire wear and performance, tire pressure should be checked regularly with a gauge; do not rely solely on the monitor system. Please see your Owner's Manual for details.

[15]The backup camera does not provide a comprehensive view of the rear area of the vehicle. You should also look around outside your vehicle and use your mirrors to confirm rearward clearance. Cold weather will limit effectiveness and view may become cloudy.

[16]The engine immobilizer is a state-of-the-art anti-theft system. The key transmits an electronic code to the vehicle. The engine will only start if the code in the transponder chip inside the key matches the code in the vehicle's immobilizer. Because the transponder chip is embedded in the key, it can be costly to replace. If you lose a key, your Lexus dealer can help, or you can find a qualified independent locksmith to perform high security key services at www.aloa.org.

[17]The Lexus Personalized Settings (LPS) Program is a one-time, complimentary offer for the first 12 months from the date the vehicle is sold. Please see your Lexus dealer for more information.

[18]Dynamic Radar Cruise Control is designed to assist the driver and is not a substitute for safe and attentive driving practices. Please see your Owner's Manual for important instructions and cautions.

[19]The Navigation System is designed to assist in locating an address or point of interest. Discrepancies may be encountered between the system and your actual location. Road system changes may affect the accuracy of the information provided. Rely on your common sense to decide whether to follow a specified route. Detailed coverage not available in every city or roadway. Periodic updates available at an additional cost. Please see your Navigation System Owner's Manual for further details.

[20]The Bluetooth® technology phones listed on lexus.com have been tested for compatibility with Lexus vehicles. Performance will vary based on phone software version, coverage and your wireless carrier. Phones are warranted by their manufacturer, not Lexus.

[21]The SmartAccess system may interfere with some pacemakers or cardiac defibrillators. If you have one of these medical devices, please talk to your doctor to see if you should deactivate this system.

[22]Mark Levinson is a registered trademark of Harman International Industries, Inc.

[23]Continuous average power, all channels driven, at less than 0.1% THD; 20–20,000 Hz.

[24]iPod is a registered trademark of Apple Inc.

[25]Satellite Radio requires XM® or SIRIUS® compatible receiver and a subscription service fee after trial. Vehicles without a factory-installed radio receiver require hardware purchase and installation. Please see your Lexus dealer for further details. All fees and programming subject to change. Subscriptions subject to the XM Customer Agreement available at www.xmradio.com or the SIRIUS Terms & Conditions available at www.sirius.com. Available only in the 48 contiguous United States and the District of Columbia.

[26]Interface kit for iPod® and XM® Radio services are not compatible and are not available in conjunction with one another.

[27]Coverage only available in the continental U.S. and Canada. Please see your Lexus dealer for details.

People complain about all the "fine print" and all the legalease, but then completely ignore it, and try and blame the dealer or salesperson when they find out later about something that was "disclosed" to them. Why do you think these footnotes keep growing?? Because people keep finding something to complain [OR SUE!]about that they "weren't told before they bought the car".

THAT, I believe, is Bartkat's point (of course, he will correct me if I misinterpreted).

tex2670,

Have you ever sat in an automotive focus group? I have.

What do you think is the primary reason that Toyota has risen to the top manufacturer in automotive history?? Any clues?

One primary reason.... they asked the US average American car buyer what they DISLIKED about their cars....

Yes... it was the "complainers", the cool-aid drinking, bitching and whinning people that they listened to!! Those people changed the perspective of what the average car owner wanted - at least for some of the Japanese auto makers.

So.... you should be happy and thankful that there are people who will express their "negative", non-manual reading, "fine print reading", opinions about their a cars and trucks!!

The fine print and growing list has nothing to do with disclosure!!!!

This is what it has to do with......

http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_RECALLs/LEXUS_RECALLs.asp

ALL LEXUS MODEL RECALL CAR REPORTS

QTY MODEL CAR QTY MODEL CAR

LEXUS ES Recalls

1 LEXUS ES 330 Recalls

LEXUS ES250 Recalls

9 LEXUS ES300 Recalls

1 LEXUS ES330 Recalls

2 LEXUS ES350 Recalls

5 LEXUS GS Recalls

LEXUS GS 300 Recalls

LEXUS GS 430 Recalls

6 LEXUS GS300 Recalls

LEXUS GS350 Recalls

1 LEXUS GS400 Recalls

LEXUS GS430 Recalls

LEXUS GS450H Recalls

LEXUS GS460 Recalls

LEXUS GX Recalls

LEXUS GX 470 Recalls

2 LEXUS GX470 Recalls

6 LEXUS IS Recalls

LEXUS IS 250 Recalls

1 LEXUS IS 300 Recalls

LEXUS IS 350 Recalls

1 LEXUS IS250 Recalls

LEXUS IS300 Recalls

LEXUS IS350 Recalls

LEXUS LE300 Recalls

8 LEXUS LS Recalls

2 LEXUS LS 430 Recalls

LEXUS LS 460 Recalls

11 LEXUS LS400 Recalls

LEXUS LS430 Recalls

LEXUS LS460 Recalls

LEXUS LS460L Recalls

LEXUS LS600H Recalls

LEXUS LX Recalls

LEXUS LX 470 Recalls

LEXUS LX 570 Recalls

LEXUS LX450 Recalls

8 LEXUS LX470 Recalls

LEXUS LX570 Recalls

LEXUS RX Recalls

LEXUS RX 330 Recalls

LEXUS RX 400H Recalls

17 LEXUS RX300 Recalls

4 LEXUS RX330 Recalls

LEXUS RX350 Recalls

1 LEXUS RX400H Recalls

LEXUS SC Recalls

LEXUS SC 430 Recalls

LEXUS SC300 Recalls

3 LEXUS SC400 Recalls

LEXUS SC430 Recalls

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Or, as I'm sure one of you highly informed and self-educated fellow cool-aid drinking members will comment....

perhaps I'm drinking waaaayyyy too much cool-aid!!!!!!!!

P.S. I keep waiting for the censorship, "this thread is closed".... "ban hammer" to appear!! :P

Or, as I'm sure one of you highly informed and self-educated fellow cool-aid drinking members will comment....

perhaps I'm drinking waaaayyyy too much cool-aid!!!!!!!!

P.S. I keep waiting for the censorship, "this thread is closed".... "ban hammer" to appear!! :P

I only thought that happens when some moron starts to desperately reach for some obscure point to cling to when they have been called out on what they think they know. And then they just start babbling on and on like a fool, completely off the original topic. I figure it's doing everyone including the fool who just won't learn to let something go a big favor by then.

[dcfish]

Actually this thread is very educational ......If you can filter out un-needed content by a certain long posting member :whistles: