I Want To Switch To Synthetic--some Questions

[LS 0181158]

1998 LS 400, currently use regular [dinosaur] oil, changed religiously every 3,000 miles. I've never gone more than 100 miles or so past that mark, and am often under it when I get the oil changed. Car runs great.

There seem to be a lot of people on this forum who would consider it heresy to use anything other than synthetic oil in their LS 400, even if it's an older model. My friend used synthetic in his '94 Ranger and now '95 F-250 truck and swears by it. I've heard stories of people using synthetic oil and almost NEVER changing the oil, yet even after such "abusive" treatment the engine is still clean when taken apart later for other reasons.

I, on the other hand, have never used synthetic in any car I've owned. I have a few questions now:

1. How much more beneficial is it to use synthetic vs. regular oil, especially if the regular oil is changed as frequently as in my case? I have heard there is no benefit to using synthetic as long as the conventional oil used is changed every 3K, supposedly well before it begins to break down.

2. On the flip side, could I actually notice any tangible benefits (besides increased theoretical longevity of the engine) by switching to synthetic? More power? Smoother? Better efficiency measured at the pump (where I have always used Premium gas anyway)?

3. Is there a specific procedure that needs to be followed at the time I switch over from regular to synthetic oil? I've heard the engine needs to be flushed of all regular oil residue. Or is it just a simple drain [regular] and fill [with synthetic]?

4. Even though synthetic oil costs more, I would have NO problem paying this and still getting my oil changed at the same 3K mile intervals. But I think everyone agrees that this would be overzealous, given the longer useful life of synthetic oil. What is a reasonable mileage to travel between changes to ensure I still don't even come CLOSE to exceeding the life of the synthetic?

5. Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the brands I hear about consistently--especially Mobil 1. Opinions about those? It seems like Mobil 1 is the "gold standard" of oil. Do they even MAKE that in a non-synthetic variety anymore?

I grudgingly get my oil changed at Jiffy Lube or Pennzoil locations; it's simply a matter of convenience--at the rate I drive, I cover 3K miles in little more than a single month, and I'd rather not be making appointments with my mechanic all the time. And I've not yet bit the bullet and learned to change the oil myself--for one thing I'm too afraid I'll screw something up or forget something. I know, I know, I should...

Anyway, your knowledge and experience is appreciated as always.

[amcdonal86]

I just got my car and did my first oil change with Mobil1 Synthetic. I plan on using the 7500 mile interval.

I'm not sure if there is a special procedure when switching over to synthetic. I doubt it matters. Aren't there even some oils that are "synthetic blends"? (Like part dino part synthetic?)

You'll find a lot of hocus pocus on the internet when it comes to synthetic oil.

[jcrome04]

ANOTHER oil thread? What is this guys? #4567946252??

lol. just bustin' your chops man. but seriously... there is more info on synthetic vs dino here than you'd ever need to know!

[SW03ES]

I've used synthetic since the first 5k mile change on my car (now 120k) and have been happy, although I don't have a lot of experience with the car on dino oil. My Dad put 160k on his 98 LS400 using dino oil and not being as religious about changes as me, and he has 80k or so on is 04 LS430 now and its the same way.

Personally? On a higher mileage older car I wouldn't switch. Theres the possibility of developing some leaks, and I think with you being as conservative as you are (thats more stringent than Lexus' schedule and people say theirs is stringent) you wouldn't see any benefit from moving to synthetic.

[eatingupblacktop]

fair warning to all:

Let's not reopen the age old oil debate unless someone has some new information to bring to the table. If the agruement does commence like usual, the thread will be closed.

For all you new members: if you have to ask what oil to use (synthetic or dino), use the search function first!

steviej

I guess there's just no getting away from discussions on oil?

1998 LS 400, currently use regular [dinosaur] oil, changed religiously every 3,000 miles. I've never gone more than 100 miles or so past that mark, and am often under it when I get the oil changed. Car runs great.

There seem to be a lot of people on this forum who would consider it heresy to use anything other than synthetic oil in their LS 400, even if it's an older model. My friend used synthetic in his '94 Ranger and now '95 F-250 truck and swears by it. I've heard stories of people using synthetic oil and almost NEVER changing the oil, yet even after such "abusive" treatment the engine is still clean when taken apart later for other reasons.

I, on the other hand, have never used synthetic in any car I've owned. I have a few questions now:

1. How much more beneficial is it to use synthetic vs. regular oil, especially if the regular oil is changed as frequently as in my case? I have heard there is no benefit to using synthetic as long as the conventional oil used is changed every 3K, supposedly well before it begins to break down.

2. On the flip side, could I actually notice any tangible benefits (besides increased theoretical longevity of the engine) by switching to synthetic? More power? Smoother? Better efficiency measured at the pump (where I have always used Premium gas anyway)?

3. Is there a specific procedure that needs to be followed at the time I switch over from regular to synthetic oil? I've heard the engine needs to be flushed of all regular oil residue. Or is it just a simple drain [regular] and fill [with synthetic]?

4. Even though synthetic oil costs more, I would have NO problem paying this and still getting my oil changed at the same 3K mile intervals. But I think everyone agrees that this would be overzealous, given the longer useful life of synthetic oil. What is a reasonable mileage to travel between changes to ensure I still don't even come CLOSE to exceeding the life of the synthetic?

5. Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the brands I hear about consistently--especially Mobil 1. Opinions about those? It seems like Mobil 1 is the "gold standard" of oil. Do they even MAKE that in a non-synthetic variety anymore?

I grudgingly get my oil changed at Jiffy Lube or Pennzoil locations; it's simply a matter of convenience--at the rate I drive, I cover 3K miles in little more than a single month, and I'd rather not be making appointments with my mechanic all the time. And I've not yet bit the bullet and learned to change the oil myself--for one thing I'm too afraid I'll screw something up or forget something. I know, I know, I should...

Anyway, your knowledge and experience is appreciated as always.

Here's more reading than I think most members will bother with, but if you're really interested in being as informed as possible then these links are for you:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=52300

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=741

[LS 0181158]

I was worried I would start a firestorm/be yelled at for starting another oil-related thread when I did so, but then again I wasn't sure anyone would notice my post if I dug up a 6-page long, 6-month old thread.

If a Moderator wants to close this thread, I for one won't be offended in the least. Sorry to beat a dead horse!

At any rate, thanks to all for your rapid replies, especially to Randy for your point-by-point response. Very, very informative. And eatingupblacktop, I will check out the links.

Cold starts here in MD have meant temps as low as 14 degrees in the morning, and I guess the engine does idle marginally rougher, louder for the first 5-8 minutes. And yes, I already checked out the "Cold starts/How long should I idle my engine in the morning" threads, so I'm not trying to start anything new there either!

Probably I will stay with dinosaur oil then--my engine FEELS as if it's maybe 1/8 of the way through its useful life (at 153K), and like Randy said, these days I guess there are other issues which may end an engine's service life well before normal wear ever becomes a factor. I'll keep up the 3K oil change intervals, continue to use Premium 93 octane, and continue to follow Lexus' recommendations for other comprehensive service intervals (180K, 240K, timing belt, etc.), and I don't see any reason (barring freak failures) why my car shouldn't last 400-500K or more like other LS 400's I've heard about--if I keep it that long. But I get the feeling if I sell my LS 400 in a few years and buy any replacement other than an LS 430 [or LS 460 if I can afford one then], I'll soon be kicking myself!

Thanks again all.

[AZ Mike]

Synthetic oil = longer oil change intervals. It holds up longer than dino oil.

As far as other benefits like less wear, better mileage, etc, I don't believe there are any statistically significant benefits. If your engine has incredibly tight tolerances and is driven at extremes, there MAY be some benefit to the greater lubricity of synthetic.

If you have any leaks, they will be worse if you switch from dino to synthetic. If you don't have any leaks with dino, you MAY develop leaks with synthetic as the sludge buildup preventing them from leaking now cleans off. If your seals are in good shape, there should be zero problem switching from dino to synthetic

[027922]

My 2 cents - in live in the frozen north - St. Paul, MN - where winter temps frequently can drop to -10 or -20 degrees and our winters are usually long (this one is). My experience in my '93 LS with 112K:

1) Easier cold starts - if your battery is marginal this could make a difference. I have to believe synthetics will reduce cold start engine wear - because they flow better when cold.

2) I have seen a slight mpg increase with synthetic - 5 - 10% better.

3) While it's true that using synthetic in high mileage engines may result in leaking, I have not seen this in mine.

4) I change oil every 5K - I would not extend it out to 10K or 25K.

Now, the practice of changing dino oil every 3K will probably maintain an engine as long as using a synthetic. Another consideration is have you priced out oils lately? Dino oil is about $2.50/qt. while synthetic is $7 - 9/qt. (and rising).

[rickatups]

I am using synthetic in my 95 LS just because I know the synthetic oil is better technoloogy .... and I want my Lex to go as far as possible .... I change the oil regardless of cost when I feel the oil looks too dirty and not based on the miles driven ... but I do tend to be a fastideous maintenace nut ..... all my neighbors think I am crazy just for how much time I spend detailing my cars ... well ... I do not play cards, or go fishing, or am into sports ... but I do like my cars! (^-^)

clearly the technology that synthetic oil represents is better ... and your Lexus engine is so cool, it surely would be justified to use synthetic in that car, you know? I say do it just for the peace of mind you will get ....

[jeffls400]

I have been using conventional oil with a Toyota filter on my 1991 LS400 with 216K miles since purchasing the car in June 2006, with 135K miles. Oil change intervals have been 5K and I change the oil myself. Below is an oil analysis from my latest oil change. All seems well with the engine based upon this single data point of empirical analysis.

So, I have used synthetic in the past in other cars, but based on my experience, regular changes with a conventional oil and the Toyota filter are just fine if that is your inclination.

LS400_212925.pdf

[AZ Mike]

I am using synthetic in my 95 LS just because I know the synthetic oil is better technoloogy .... and I want my Lex to go as far as possible .... I change the oil regardless of cost when I feel the oil looks too dirty and not based on the miles driven ... but I do tend to be a fastideous maintenace nut ..... all my neighbors think I am crazy just for how much time I spend detailing my cars ... well ... I do not play cards, or go fishing, or am into sports ... but I do like my cars! (^-^)

clearly the technology that synthetic oil represents is better ... and your Lexus engine is so cool, it surely would be justified to use synthetic in that car, you know? I say do it just for the peace of mind you will get ....

You do realize that the appearance of the oil means nothing, right? The only way to know for certain how your oil is wearing is to get a used oil analysis. If you are a maintenance nut, check out Blackstone Labs. If you are changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual, you are most likely just wasting oil.

Also, the only thing I am aware of where synthetic oil is superior to dino oil is that it will last longer. I don't think there is any magic in the bottle that will make your car last longer.

Just my $0.02

[blacklexus90]

I am using synthetic in my 95 LS just because I know the synthetic oil is better technoloogy .... and I want my Lex to go as far as possible .... I change the oil regardless of cost when I feel the oil looks too dirty and not based on the miles driven ... but I do tend to be a fastideous maintenace nut ..... all my neighbors think I am crazy just for how much time I spend detailing my cars ... well ... I do not play cards, or go fishing, or am into sports ... but I do like my cars! (^-^)

clearly the technology that synthetic oil represents is better ... and your Lexus engine is so cool, it surely would be justified to use synthetic in that car, you know? I say do it just for the peace of mind you will get ....

You do realize that the appearance of the oil means nothing, right? The only way to know for certain how your oil is wearing is to get a used oil analysis. If you are a maintenance nut, check out Blackstone Labs. If you are changing your oil more frequently than recommended in your owner's manual, you are most likely just wasting oil.

Also, the only thing I am aware of where synthetic oil is superior to dino oil is that it will last longer. I don't think there is any magic in the bottle that will make your car last longer.

Just my $0.02

Well to all on here,I have used mobile 1 since I had a 1993 volvo 850 when I bought the car it had 194K so I switch to mobile 1 well I got another 60K out of it, and sold in perfect running condition.Any way I bought a 1992 LS 400 with 254K on it once again changed to mobile 1 and the car is perfect and very quiet.To some it up, the car has 300K on it and not 1 leak or rattle.I personally approve a full synthetic motor oil in in high mileage cars as well.It will help your engine.

[landar]

If you have not yet done your own oil change, I would suggest that you learn that skill and start changing it yourself.

It is really fairly easy. The hardest part is removing the under-engine cover. I have heard that the Jiffy lubes of the world

can easily strip your oil pan by cross-threading the drain plug. Remember who is working there and the turnover rate.

When I bought my 98 LS with 60k miles, I immediately switched to Mobil 1. Why? Well, it was mostly a matter of convenience.

I live in N. Indiana where the winters can be 5-6 months long and I really dont relish crawling under the car in a cold garage.

With synthetic, I dont sweat the mileage nearly as much as I would with dino. The synthetic gives you more room to play with mileage

before getting changed. You can plan the changes more freely with synthetic.

[amcdonal86]

If you have not yet done your own oil change, I would suggest that you learn that skill and start changing it yourself.

It is really fairly easy. The hardest part is removing the under-engine cover. I have heard that the Jiffy lubes of the world

can easily strip your oil pan by cross-threading the drain plug. Remember who is working there and the turnover rate.

When I bought my 98 LS with 60k miles, I immediately switched to Mobil 1. Why? Well, it was mostly a matter of convenience.

I live in N. Indiana where the winters can be 5-6 months long and I really dont relish crawling under the car in a cold garage.

With synthetic, I dont sweat the mileage nearly as much as I would with dino. The synthetic gives you more room to play with mileage

before getting changed. You can plan the changes more freely with synthetic.

I used to change the oil myself. But it's pretty impossible to transport the used oil to a recycling center without getting it all over the interior/trunk.

[killerFatty]

If you have not yet done your own oil change, I would suggest that you learn that skill and start changing it yourself.

It is really fairly easy. The hardest part is removing the under-engine cover. I have heard that the Jiffy lubes of the world

can easily strip your oil pan by cross-threading the drain plug. Remember who is working there and the turnover rate.

When I bought my 98 LS with 60k miles, I immediately switched to Mobil 1. Why? Well, it was mostly a matter of convenience.

I live in N. Indiana where the winters can be 5-6 months long and I really dont relish crawling under the car in a cold garage.

With synthetic, I dont sweat the mileage nearly as much as I would with dino. The synthetic gives you more room to play with mileage

before getting changed. You can plan the changes more freely with synthetic.

I used to change the oil myself. But it's pretty impossible to transport the used oil to a recycling center without getting it all over the interior/trunk.

I have never had a problem with transporting it to my nearest autoparts store. I put it in a screw top container, put it in a plastic sack, rap it in shop towels, then through it in my trunk and drive like miss Daisy. If I have a friend, I rap it up and make him hold it in the passanger seat. Never had a problem with transporting it. Best of luck