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Sorry if this has already been discussed/mentioned (I've never been very successful with the search feature - but I did try). I just read this in the Washington Post this weekend.

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Product Recalls

Saturday, January 17, 2009; Page D01

Lexus Vehicles

DETAILS: A safety recall of about 214,500 Lexus vehicles sold by Toyota Motor in the United States. It affects GS300/350, IS250/350, and LS460/460L vehicles from model years 2006 through 2008.

DEFECT: Ethanol fuels with a low-moisture content may corrode the internal surface of the fuel delivery pipes, resulting in a fuel leak over time. The pipe corrosion may trigger the malfunction indicator light.

WHAT TO DO: Lexus dealers will replace the fuel delivery pipes at no charge. The company will mail notices to affected owners later this month.

SOURCE: Associated Press

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I don't think they should call it a "recall" because it's not Toyota's fault for the ethanol fuel messing up their fuel systems. Ethanol fuel has recently been shown to clog up and destroy lawn mower type engines. I think whoever still has been putting ethanol fuel in their car or truck will get what is coming. They tried to make this new fuel work with existing engines which was a bad idea. This new ethanol fuel has only been around for a few years and look at all the problems already. I promise there will be more automakers that will start seeing problems with engines and fuel systems related to the use of ethanol fuel. Just wait.

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Here is the actual recall announcement.

Lexus announced thru channels today that there is a campaign(recall) on 06-07-GS 300 and 350"s

They will be replacing the Fuel Rails for the fuel injection, the Electronic steering racks, and rear brake caliper bolts.

If you are in the NY area call the guys at Rallye Lexus 516-676-8686 if you need help. They always help me and are the guys that do the car show and are active on this site.

Special Service Campaigns (SSC)

SSC 9LA Certain 2006 2007 GS, 2006 2008 IS and 2007 2008 LS Vehicles Fuel Delivery Pipe Replacement

SSC 9LB Certain 2006 2007 GS and IS Vehicles Rear Brake Caliper Inspection

SSC 9LC Certain2006 2007 GS, IS and RX 400h Vehicles Electric Power Steering Link (EPS) Assembly Replacement

******URGENT******

On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.

There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.

Additionally, Lexus is launching two other SSCs.

9LB Certain 2006 2007 model GS and IS vehicles to inspect rear brake calipers. On certain Lexus vehicles, the slide pin in the rear brake calipers may not operate smoothly. If the vehicle continues to be operated under these conditions, the brake pads may make noise.

9LC Certain 2007 GS 450h, 2006 2007 GS, IS and RX 400h vehicles to replace the electric power steering link (EPS) assembly. Certain vehicles may experience a noticeable gradual increase in the steering effort necessary at low speeds when turning the steering wheel to the complete left or right position. This condition may be most perceptible when parking the vehicle.

A dealer package including vital information and reimbursement procedures will be sent to dealers (to the attention of the service manager) today.

Lexus will inform owners of the involved vehicles with a Special Service Campaign notification letter sent via first class mail beginning in late January 2009.

All customer inquires should be directed to the Lexus Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-255-3987.

If you are a dealership associate and have any questions, please contact your District Service and Parts Manager.

For News media inquiries only, they should be directed to Julie Alfonso (310) 468-4625 or Greg Thome (310) 468-3279, in Lexus Corporate Communications. (Please do not provide these numbers to customers or call if you are a dealer associate.)

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I don't think they should call it a "recall" because it's not Toyota's fault for the ethanol fuel messing up their fuel systems. Ethanol fuel has recently been shown to clog up and destroy lawn mower type engines. I think whoever still has been putting ethanol fuel in their car or truck will get what is coming. They tried to make this new fuel work with existing engines which was a bad idea. This new ethanol fuel has only been around for a few years and look at all the problems already. I promise there will be more automakers that will start seeing problems with engines and fuel systems related to the use of ethanol fuel. Just wait.

Brazil has been using 100% Etahnol fuel for years. Other vehicles including Toyota use the same gasoline; why only Lexus has this problem?

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Brazil has been using 100% Etahnol fuel for years. Other vehicles including Toyota use the same gasoline; why only Lexus has this problem?

My point is alcohol is a solvent, and is corrosive to most fuel systems. So if someone drives an 06-08 Lexus and has NEVER put ethanol fuel in their car, and never will, one would not need to worry about a corrosion problem. I do not see how in the hell they can make even a percentage of ethanol manditory with only a small percentage of cars around that are "safe" running on it. Here in Texas I have never even seen a carrier with ethanol fuel. Not to mention that no where in the manual does it state you can even put ethanol fuel in my IS350. And like I said, just give it time, we will most likely be seeing more problems in the future with this ethanol fuel.

And it's not ONLY Lexus having problems.....

http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/200...roblem-ethanol/

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  • 8 months later...

There are more "myths" about the ethanol fuel than about the Loch Ness monster, it seems... :rolleyes:

Solvent?

Can you please explain what you mean? Gasoline is no less agressive than ethanol. Have you tried filling one of those flims disposable drinking cups with gasoline. It will quickly dissolve and "melt". Try to do the same but using ethanol, and the cup will be fine...

They have different properties, but you can't really say that ethanol is more "aggressive".

And that article is not correct. "Retains water"? They seem not to understand even basic chemistry.

Gasoline in non-polar, water is polar and the ethanol molecule has one end that is polar and one end that is not.

That is why it is common to pour some ethanol in the gasoline during winter, to bind any "free" water in the fuel system that might otherwise freeze in the carburator nozzles.

The resin/gum that gets dissolved is the result of many years of gasoline use. Filling ethanol in the tank will clean it and restore it to it's original condition - resin-free.

Fiberglass tanks are not used for cars.

I (and many others...) have used 85% ethanol fuel for years in my cars without any material related problems.

To my knowledge, cork and shellac are the only car related materials that will not work ok with ethanol. You rarely find either of them in the fuel system of any car newer than 1970 or so.

Joe Rutigliano of Joe's Service Center in Avon Park has seen increased complaints about "check engine" lights. Most involve the car's sensors not being able to measure oxygen correctly, which he says has to do with how rapidly ethanol burns.

Also false. The oxygen sensor does not know and does not care what fuel is used - it measures the oxygen level. If the CE light comes on, it is probably because the engine runs too lean on ethanol. To achieve correct stochiometric ratio you need about 30% extra fuel to run at lambda 1. That is outside the regulation system parameters on many angine management systems. Bigger injectors or higher fuel pressure is the cure.

/Alexander

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There are more "myths" about the ethanol fuel than about the Loch Ness monster, it seems... :rolleyes:

Solvent?

Can you please explain what you mean? Gasoline is no less agressive than ethanol. Have you tried filling one of those flims disposable drinking cups with gasoline. It will quickly dissolve and "melt". Try to do the same but using ethanol, and the cup will be fine...

They have different properties, but you can't really say that ethanol is more "aggressive".

And that article is not correct. "Retains water"? They seem not to understand even basic chemistry.

Gasoline in non-polar, water is polar and the ethanol molecule has one end that is polar and one end that is not.

That is why it is common to pour some ethanol in the gasoline during winter, to bind any "free" water in the fuel system that might otherwise freeze in the carburator nozzles.

The resin/gum that gets dissolved is the result of many years of gasoline use. Filling ethanol in the tank will clean it and restore it to it's original condition - resin-free.

Fiberglass tanks are not used for cars.

I (and many others...) have used 85% ethanol fuel for years in my cars without any material related problems.

To my knowledge, cork and shellac are the only car related materials that will not work ok with ethanol. You rarely find either of them in the fuel system of any car newer than 1970 or so.

Joe Rutigliano of Joe's Service Center in Avon Park has seen increased complaints about "check engine" lights. Most involve the car's sensors not being able to measure oxygen correctly, which he says has to do with how rapidly ethanol burns.

Also false. The oxygen sensor does not know and does not care what fuel is used - it measures the oxygen level. If the CE light comes on, it is probably because the engine runs too lean on ethanol. To achieve correct stochiometric ratio you need about 30% extra fuel to run at lambda 1. That is outside the regulation system parameters on many angine management systems. Bigger injectors or higher fuel pressure is the cure.

/Alexander

That's why some cars in the US are "flex fuel" and some are not. As for my preferences I will use gas with no ethanol as long as I can find it. Ethanol has more connotations here than just it's performance in engines. It's a big waste and boondoggle of taxpayer money going to subsidize corn raised for fuel and not for food. Added problem is the higher cost per btu, lower fuel mileage, and crops diverted to ethanol causing food prices to increase. It's bad for the American consumer all the way around. Most of us just don't like it as it is not a cost effective way to achieve the nebulous goals for which it is intended.

http://www.electrochem.org/meetings/schedu...ts/214/1695.pdf

E15 - the fuel standard proposed by a consortium of corn-growing states - would likely not be safe for use. Ethanol is quite corrosive, and in order to create a vehicle that can safely use the substance, automakers have to design specialized fuel systems (e.g. tanks, lines, pumps, injectors, etc.) designed to resist the alcohol. Although a number of cars today are "flex fuel capable" and can run up to E85 blends, many - especially older vehicles - are not. Using such fuels in vehicles incapable of handling them can cause extensive, expensive damage.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6588984/gr...tent/index.html

If E15 is a problem for non flex fuel cars, then E85 will certainly be a disaster for them. Whether you use the term "aggressive" or "corrosive" the auto parts don't know the semantic difference and the results will be similar.

It's not that the ethanol binds to the water, it's that ethanol actually dissolves in water, and there is part of the problem. The car either has to be built with different or coated fuel system parts and/or expensive corrosion inhibitors must be added to the fuel. Any way you slice it, it all ends up with higher costs for little reduction in emissions.

Remember MBPE? It was supposed to be the ultimate solution for a fuel supplement. It turned out to be toxic and ended up in the ground water of various regions. So much for the environment.

The only best reason 100% ethanol works for Brazil is that sugar cane is abundant and yields more BTU per dollar than most other bio fuels. That allows them to use cars that are made to run on ethanol and not be dependent on oil. More power to them.

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