About Is 250 Manual's Fly Wheel & Transmission Problem

[bAby_t]

Hi all, Im back again, today is Nov 4, 2009:

after i got it fixed, in 4300 miles, SAME THING HAPPENED AGAIN !!

I've post what i've did towards the last incident and this new incident at the bottom of this page

see if it helps and also see if anyone can help, thanks !!

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Hi all, (Long story, please read through)

Don't know if anyone here with a Manual 250 had any Fly Wheel or Transmission problem before,

I really need some helpping hands right now or they will charge me $ 3000 USD

(for the damage thats I'm pretty sure its not done by me)

and I only had this car for only a little more than 1 year, thanks so much !!

** Plus, It's NOT a LEASE CAR, I bought this car **

I purchased a 2007 IS 250 manual about 1 year & 3 mon ago and it has 15,000 miles on it,

for the past couple of month, when I shift from lower to higher gear and sometimes downshifting,

there's a wierd metal clicking noise coming out from maybe the transmission.

At first, it only happens once in a long while, but after 2 / 3 month, it happens more often

So I broght my car back into the dealership to have a check up & also for the 15,000 miles service.

During the road test with the technician, he heard the noise and said it should be the transmission,

and he says it's under the warrenty, so they will replaced me a brand new one. (that's really cool)

But after 3 days, the Manager of Service Dept. called and said :

" The transmission is fine, it's the FLYING WHEEL thats busted,

and it's not under warrenty cuz it's from driving TOO aggressively "

Than he told me if I want to file complains, call 1800 25 LEXUS, there's not much they can do.

after that, I did some search on-line for a bit

and also asked some of my fd who are technician them-self or owners of a shop

They're all surprise and all of them said

" It's not easy to break a Manual Transmission or the Flywheel, it should last ".

Yeah, that's what I remember too, since I used to owned 4 StickShift Cars before too,

so, its not that I can't drive a stick and broke my own flywheel or transmission !

And I barely drive my car, most likely ONLY School & Home, thats about 50 miles round trip.

PLUS my School is in Hollywood, ALWAYS TRAFFIC, how can I go crazy on the car

(1st or 2nd gear all the way..haha),

Plus by adding up the distance from home to school / school to home = about 50 miles (both way)

5 days a week (sometimes have classes at night, so need to go twice a day + some weekends),

thats about Avg. 25 school days in a month

So, 50 miles / day (only count 1 round trip) x 25 days/month x 9 month of school

that's the Total of 11,250 miles (not including when I need to go 2 times a day and that happens quite often)

and my car only have 15,000 miles on it now.

Sorry, enough of the complainings, here are the questions:

1. Is the Fly Wheel that easily to break down and how ?

2. What about their Transmission and clutch ?

3. If driving too aggressively, would it damage the transmission as well ? which first ??

4. Is the Fly Wheel under warrenty ? (In the manual says it is but the Manager told me it's me causing this, so it's not)

5. What I need to prepare when I file complain to LEXUS USA FACTORY ?

[bAby_t]

Scroll down, I've found another Lexus Forum w/ many owner has the same issue

[smooth1]

Hello, and welcome to the LOC.

It sounds to me like you may have over revved the motor and dumped the clutch on the car before? Once they open the housing and see that, they know right away. You flywheel has a dual mass dampening system that is designed to help save the transmission. ( I'm pretty sure they use the same one, or atleast very simular on the IS 250 as they used on the IS300 anyway.) It's a pretty obvious diagnostic. And so once they saw that, they determined it won't be under warrentee as it's due to abuse.

[bAby_t]

Hello, and welcome to the LOC.

It sounds to me like you may have over revved the motor and dumped the clutch on the car before? Once they open the housing and see that, they know right away. You flywheel has a dual mass dampening system that is designed to help save the transmission. ( I'm pretty sure they use the same one, or atleast very simular on the IS 250 as they used on the IS300 anyway.) It's a pretty obvious diagnostic. And so once they saw that, they determined it won't be under warrentee as it's due to abuse.

Thank you so much !!

Yea, after I asked around, from what I've heard, it should be a 2 piece flywheel (Danting)

and the transmission should be using the X-Runners

I have a question, if going up hill on 2nd at first, than downshift to 1st to climb

or going down hill or higher speed, using the down shifting 2 ~ 3 gear to slow down the car

both will cause the scraping on the inside too right ?

so, how can they proof and how they consider driving too aggressively ?

and also IS 250 is consider and design as a sports coupe

the flywheel or the transmission shouldn't be sets more towards conservative

it should handles more towards the sports driving technique

and even with the way I drive, will cause this kind of damage

i really donno if this is the lack of experience of making manual car

Sorry, just been little moody, Thanks so much again !!

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[smooth1]

Hello, and welcome to the LOC.

It sounds to me like you may have over revved the motor and dumped the clutch on the car before? Once they open the housing and see that, they know right away. You flywheel has a dual mass dampening system that is designed to help save the transmission. ( I'm pretty sure they use the same one, or atleast very simular on the IS 250 as they used on the IS300 anyway.) It's a pretty obvious diagnostic. And so once they saw that, they determined it won't be under warrentee as it's due to abuse.

Is this flywheel made out of metal, like most flywheels? I don't understand the diagnosis? What is a "broken" flywheel? I've never heard of a "broken" flywheel. I've seen smoked clutch discs and pressure plates, and over-heated flywheel surfaces that are stress cracked. I've heard of clutch discs disintegrating from over revving. This may be abuse, but there is a good possibility it's a defective part. To actually break flywheel, I'd think it would take incredible force. There's more to this.

The dual mass flywheel construction relocates the damper from the driven disc to the engine flywheel. This repositioning dampens engine torsional vibrations more than is possible with standard clutch disc dampening technology. Which is why they should be replaced and not resurfaced like in the ole days.

There is a friction ring located between the inner and outer flywheel that allows the inner and outer flywheel to slip. This is designed to alleviate any damage to the transmission when torque loads exceed the vehicle rating of the transmission. The friction ring is the weak spot in the system and can wear out if excessive engine torque loads are applied through it. The system also has a centre support bearing that carries the load between the inner and outer flywheel. The system is also fitted with damper springs to absorb shocks.

What's going on is since the dual-mass flywheel isn't dampening the vibrations going to the tranny. It then gets amplified and broadcast to you ears from the tranny. The stock flywheels are exactly weighted and when they get resurfaced it takes away from the original mass, that's what makes them no good for dampening the noise anymore.

Getrag makes their six speed clutch assemblies backwards from normal clutches by using the dual mass flywheels and solid disk, whereas normal clutches like in the RX7 5-speeds are a solid flywheel with a sprung hub disk.

[bartkat]

I think I'd try another dealer. Seems to me the car ought to have a rev limiter which should prevent over reving to the point of destruction. I suppose dumping the clutch at high revs might to it, but the clutch plates should show some signs of damage as well. Don't know for sure your driving style, but if you're not just downshifting at high revs and letting the clutch out too soon, I don't see all that damage no matter how the fly wheel is constructed. If it's designed to protect the transmission I would think the threshold would still be pretty high. Stuff like that doesn't get torn up in routine driving.

[bAby_t]

Hey everyone with the same problem

I've Found Another Site and Found Out that

Many IS 250 Manual OWNER has the same PROBLEM

Here are the Link to it :

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-second-...ne-problem.html

Hope this will HELP many others

[suka4thong]

i have 06 IS250 MT also with 24000

and here is my story

i start noticing my gears slipping end of oct. 2008 specially 2nd 3rd because i only drive maybe 4 miles local at the most a day

so i called santa monica lexus to ask if replacing clutch was under warranty and they were very rude saying it's wear and tare item and they hung up on me. so few days passed and gear slipping are getting worst every gear so i called Lexus Corp. for some help and they told me to get it check at any dealer and they'll follow up on it.

so dec 4th i made appointment at glendale lexus and show the service advisor wat's going on with everything including TSIB brake dust problem also.

few days pass got a call from Lexus Corp. telling me it's wear and tare item so they won't cover under warranty but they have "Lexus' goodwill offer to cover 25% of the repair.

so i got mad and frostrated, picked up my car and never spoke with them.

now my car is just sitting at home, can't drive it until i solve this problem because it's not catching gear at all.

any help here??

[BillyShaft]

Seems to me the car ought to have a rev limiter which should prevent over reving to the point of destruction.

This reminds me of the dreaded BMW M3 killer...during spirited acceleration and fast gear shifting it is not uncommon for people to blow the 3rd to 4th shift and actually pull the shifter accidently from 3rd to 2nd. When you dump the clutch at redline in 3rd with the tranny in 2nd...you overrev the motor and basically destroy it in half a second. The Rev limiter cannot protect from this condition.

I wonder if this is how a Lexus clutch like Smooth describes can be similarly abused?

[suka4thong]

any update on this issue??

can lexus offer better cluch for us?

[bAby_t]

any update on this issue??

can lexus offer better cluch for us?

sorry for this belated reply, what month is ur car ? what results u get after u contact NCDS ?

u know what, can u give me ur email or any way that i can contact u with ??

i did get mine fixed BUT within 4000 mile, SAME THING HAPPEN AGAIN !!!

My 1st incident:

due to ur question, LONGO LEXUS, i got mine fixed, i wrote a letter to their VP and also called the manufacture 1800-25-LEXUS.. it ends up they r willing to pay for the parts (flywheel + clutch assembly) which is about $3600, BUT i have to pay for the LABOR which is like $ 1500.. AND this is not all, after they fixed it, I still heard metal scraping noise, so i brought my car back within a week, and they said their technician puts a wrong screw in, and they said it won't damage the car.. (now i really have doubts about what they said, cuz metal again metal scraping noise occurs only happens while shifting, that just don't sound right)

My 2nd incident:

Now After everything is solved, in 4300 mile since last incident, SAME THING HAPPEN AGAIN, Im starting to hear the same grinding noise once every other week again. This time the manufacture lady was saying they won't do anything this time. so now im trying to fight for my rights, cuz really, in 4000 miles.. come on !!! And also manual transmission / flywheel, should last for a long time, and also the clutch should be stronger than that.. Its a SPORTS COUPE !!

[smooth1]

I really don't know nor can I explain the issue with your car. 4k miles is nothing. And your having the same issue again? My first thought is maybe you don't know how to operate a manual? But then I think how could some one destroy 2 clutches in 4k miles each? And your right, the stock set up should be able to easily handle "spirited" take off's and driving, with the occasional mis-shifts and oh sh!%$. as a buffer. And I also can't help but think about all the manuals that have been sold in the US and while I do here a small percentage of complaints, I would think that by now there would be a huge uprising regarding this as it would be happening to alot more people every 5-10k miles. With the expense of this issue, Lexus would have had to issue a recall for sure by now. So my advice is sell it before the clutch goes out again and get a different car.

[bAby_t]

Here to see if anyone has the same problem

a noticeable metal again metal grinding noise, happens more often when drive off from a complete stop).

if u do heard any noise, do not think the parts are still breaking-in,

and most important is if ur IS MT is less than a yr,

hurry and bring em in, at least ur fit to the LEMON LAW.

(Less than a yr, same issue happens 3 times),

a little insurance to ur-self and car, theres nothing to loose,

trust me, u do not want to pay $1,500 just for the labor.

*Due to the past incident, below are some of the Links to it and some more others owners

with the same issues, hope these could help anyone in anyway*

Lexus Owners Club - Lexus Club and Forum

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-second-...ne-problem.html

Due to my last incident, I took the Lexus Customer Satisfactions deal,

which is they are willing to pay for the parts (flywheel & Clutch Assembly),

which is about $3500, but i have to paid $1500 just for the Labor.

the dealer (LONGO) said they will give me an VIP discount on the labor,

but now, i looked through Lexus forums, $1500 dealership labor,

is a lot more than what ive seen regarding to the others.

Anyhow, after i got them fixed, within in 4.5K (4500 miles), same thing happened again,

im starting to heard the same grinding noise once in a week or two,

so, i took the car back to the Dealership (LONGO),

and yes, they still blame me for my driving habit.

This is ridiculous, NO MORE THAN 4500 mile since last fixed and this happened again..

And trust me, im a car guy, i know how to drive a stick,

Most of my cars are MT Cars, even my 1st car is a MT (16 yrs old, now im 33)

There's never been any problems !!

I should recommend LEXUS to come out w/ their own MT Tutorial DVD.

Okay, that day i went for a road test w/ the Dealers technician

(they called me back in to road test with them since they ).

Later, the service dept lady called said the technician told her:

"its because i didn't let go the clutch all of the way and i accelerate".

i was thinking OMG..

1. i was focusing on trying to carefully grind the clutch a little to get the soundz out.

2. Technician took over the wheel during the 1/2 way,

HE WAS using some of his crazy techniques on the car,

Like pumped the clutch a couple of times during driving on 1st gear

the car jerks like a beginner is behind wheel

does that tell you that's how the technician drives his car ?! no~

and he was blaming me !!

Im very curious about his theory,

THE CAR WILL STALL if u let go the clutch all of the way..

so, he means every time u pull-off from a complete stop u will damage the car ?

more damages if going uphill ?

After that, i called the FACTORY and they inform me that they took care of it once,

and not willing to help again this time.. But before they gave me any answers ,

the lady from the FACTORY called and told me the dealer's (LONGO) technician said

it was the CLUTCH that causes it, BUT funny thing is that I talked to the Dealer 2 days ago,

they told me that it was the FLYWHEEL.. same technician who inspected the car, 2 different story..

Im very confuse !! (and this technician put in a wrong screw in wrong hole last time when he fixed my car, below are the story to that)

Okay, after they fixed it from the 1st incident, i brought the car back within a week,

because i am still hearing Metal against Metal scrapping noise..

after the examination, i was been told that the technician made a mistake,

he puts IN A WRONG SCREW IN A WRONG HOLE !!!

but they told me it wont cause any damages to the car !!

Now i think back.. any metal again metal scrapping noise while shifting,

and its from where the parts that just been replace and assemble back.. ITS WRONG !!

Anyone have the same issue or have any suggestion on what i can do or where i can go ??

[bAby_t]

I really don't know nor can I explain the issue with your car. 4k miles is nothing. And your having the same issue again? My first thought is maybe you don't know how to operate a manual? But then I think how could some one destroy 2 clutches in 4k miles each? And your right, the stock set up should be able to easily handle "spirited" take off's and driving, with the occasional mis-shifts and oh sh!%$. as a buffer. And I also can't help but think about all the manuals that have been sold in the US and while I do here a small percentage of complaints, I would think that by now there would be a huge uprising regarding this as it would be happening to alot more people every 5-10k miles. With the expense of this issue, Lexus would have had to issue a recall for sure by now. So my advice is sell it before the clutch goes out again and get a different car.

Yea, i have had 4 manual trans. cars before and trust me, im a car guy.. ive been driving a MT cars since 16, im 33 yrs old now, my first car was an Accord MT. oh, i think i got u confuse on the milage, the 4500 miles its the milage that this new flywheel & clutch has last until its starting to make noise once in awhile. Last one i had they last about 15k. but really, thanks for ur advice !