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Gen 4 Nav Update Kills Override: Solutions?


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On my 2004 LS 430, I finally decided to get the Nov 08 update at dealer because the ECU for the Navigation system was being replaced under extended warranty. Well to my extreme dismay, the override (menu/volume/top left/bottom left. .. etc.) no longer works. I am tempted to make the dealer give me my $$$ back because I asked if the upgrade will change ANY functionality and they said "no".

I did retain my original DVD. I wonder if there is software loaded off the DVD besides map data. If so, maybe I can burn a new DVD with old software and new map data. Any ideas or hardwire workarounds?

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Welcome to LOC!

Bummer on the update issue.

The search you need is "Hybrid Disc". Lots of info here on it.

The best you will be able to do on your modified disc with Gen 4 is the 6.1 data with a 5.1 LOADING.KWI file.

If you decide to go down this path and have questions, let me know.

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Welcome to LOC!

Bummer on the update issue.

The search you need is "Hybrid Disc". Lots of info here on it.

The best you will be able to do on your modified disc with Gen 4 is the 6.1 data with a 5.1 LOADING.KWI file.

If you decide to go down this path and have questions, let me know.

Hey BillyShaft, thanks for the feedback.

So, my disc is reporting as "ver.08.1". Are you saying this disc will be useless if I want to get back my override - there are no known solutions except going back to an older "6.1" disc?

When I first got the car I found a website that sold an wiring modification that solved the whole thing, including phone. I opted not to go that route. Is such a solution non-functional for these new discs?

I had already resolved not to buy a new Lexus until a solution was available for the newer ones (my friend with and '07 couldn't find one - what a drag that is).

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You are correct. No one has figured out a way to override a Gen 4 system with 7.1 or 8.1 data. Essentially, Denso redesigned the file system on the 7.1 and up discs, so the 5.1 Loading file will no longer function in the hybrid discs.

If you are talking about the coastaletech lockpick device, it will work with the 5.1 disc or the 5.1/6.1 hybrid.

You will lose the ability to bypass on the non-hybrid 6.1, 7.1 and 8.1 discs.

Lockpick will still let you use your bluetooth and video inputs, but it cannot do the bypass of the nav on the newer discs either.

:(

Summary:

With a Gen 4 nav; you can override 5.1, but not 6.1. You can also make a 5.1/6.1 hybrid disc that will allow you to override. 7.1 and 8.1 are override-proof so far.

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You will lose the ability to bypass on the non-hybrid 6.1, 7.1 and 8.1 discs.

Do I understand you to say that the Lockpick3 will not work if using a 7.1 or 8.1 OEM disk?

I just ordered (about 45 minutes ago) a Lockpick3 Basic by telephone. I called specifically to be sure I was ordering the correct product and clearly told them it was a 2009 RX350. Bret, the salesperson, did not indicate that there would be any problem. By pure chance, i read your post within minutes of placing the order. I have been trying to call them back but can only get answering service now. I am going to be very *BLEEP*ed if it turns out they sold and shipped a product that is not compatible with my car.

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I just left my service advisor a message that they need to take out the new disk and restore my original (including refund me). This is on the grounds that they directly told me that the new disc will not remove any functionality. Furthermore, they did not say anywhere that this is not returnable AND they say all over the place that they want me to 100% satisfied.

Any additional thoughts on what to tell the dealer to convince them to back out the upgrade at no charge?

Then I have the option of getting a Hybrid disk or picking up a smallGgarmin for half the price of the upgrade DvD for when I am on new roads.

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yea, I am not sure how you are going to spring that on them. Software is such a hassle to return. Good luck though!

If you decide to make a hybrid disc and have questions, let me know. I just recently made mine and it has much more current data than the 4.2 disc I had.

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I dropped the LS 430 with the dealer for downgrading back to my original DVD and a refund on the "unsatisfactory" upgrade.

The service advisor said they had the people from Lexus who do the nav system in and they asked for input. Of course he said there were many comments about the fact that you cannot control the nav unit while in motion. He even suggested the option of a passenger side control or seat sensor. They replied that people would defeat that with bags of cement, etc. Of course, the reply to the Lexus nav people was that owners were defeating the airbag sensors and what not anyway - what's the difference?

I'll report back when I get the vehicle if they were "successful" in downgrading to my original disc that allows the override.

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The downgrade at dealer failed. They refunded for the v8.1 disc and put back my 4.2 disc. Pulling the Radio1 fuse affected the audio system but did not clear the memory.

I found a fuse Marked ECU in the trunk fuse box. When I pulled that and left in the radio1 fuse, then turned on the ignition, I got a black screen when the screen switched to navigation. Left it that way all night, but also pulled the radio1 fuse again just in case.

That did not clear the memory either. I am wondering if the replacement ECU the dealer installed (warranty repair) has persistent memory. I also wonder if there is a reset on it somewhere -- all computers have a reset of some sort, don't they? Oh, that's right, IBM didn't think they needed that in the 90's.

Any other ideas? I'm about to pull the battery cable - but I will loose all of the seat, phone, radio memory when I do. :angry:

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I am happy to report that although pulling the ECU and RADIO1 fuses did not work, disconnecting the negative terminal of the battery DID IT!

I pulled the terminal and got called away for about 10 minutes. When I came back I reconnected it then turned the ignition to ACC. BINGO! That glorious "LOADING" screen showed up!

When it was done, I tried the override sequence and it was there. The override worked just like it used to!

I was worried I was going to loose my radio and seat settings, but it didn't. So I am whole again and can use the navigation system while rolling. :)

Next I'll work on the hybrid disc

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Has anyone tried momentarily interrupting the SPD signal to the navigation ECU ? I installed a push button switch that interrupts the SPD signal to the NAV ECU making it think the car is not moving. This allows me to makes changes to the navigation system only available when the car is not moving (ie. destination changes). The navigation system maintains its course/route and postion while the changes are being made because the GPS signal is still available. When done just reinstate the SPD signal.

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Has anyone tried momentarily interrupting the SPD signal to the navigation ECU ? I installed a push button switch that interrupts the SPD signal to the NAV ECU making it think the car is not moving. This allows me to makes changes to the navigation system only available when the car is not moving (ie. destination changes). The navigation system maintains its course/route and postion while the changes are being made because the GPS signal is still available. When done just reinstate the SPD signal.

Not sure what wire the SPD signal comes in on.

Wouldn't this defeat the dead-reckoning? Not that you would use it when you do need dead-reckoning, but just curious if it would.

Are you doing this on a model that doesn't have the override at all? Like 2006+?

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This would indeed defeat the dead reckoning. However, after four years experience with Garmin GPS units in both our vehicles and at least two major road trips a year, the dead reckoning feature is rarely if ever needed.

Last month we purchased a 2009 RX350. It turns out that the Nav system stops updating the map display when the vehicle speed sensor signal is removed. In my opinion, Lexus probably programmed in this feature as a deterrent to eliminating the lockout feature by permanently leaving the speed sensor signal disconnected.

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Has anyone tried momentarily interrupting the SPD signal to the navigation ECU ? I installed a push button switch that interrupts the SPD signal to the NAV ECU making it think the car is not moving. This allows me to makes changes to the navigation system only available when the car is not moving (ie. destination changes). The navigation system maintains its course/route and postion while the changes are being made because the GPS signal is still available. When done just reinstate the SPD signal.

Not sure what wire the SPD signal comes in on.

Wouldn't this defeat the dead-reckoning? Not that you would use it when you do need dead-reckoning, but just curious if it would.

Are you doing this on a model that doesn't have the override at all? Like 2006+?

I rewired my 1998 LS400 for navigation (came stock with Pioneer H/U). During this process, I learned a good bit about the way the NAV system works. The speed signal comes directly from the combination meter and is input to pin #12 (violet/white wire) of the biggest connector of the three (1. video & data\ 2. power & audio \3. GPS ANT). I haven't had any issues with the navigation system losing its place. I only use this feature when I need to change my destination or use other features otherwise unavailable during vehicle movement. I guess my system maintains its coordinate partly because I never lock less than 5 (min. 4) GPS satellites at ALL times. This was accomplished by relocating the GPS antenna to the back deck lid behind the the rear driver's side headrest to give the antenna a clear view of the sky. Once I've finish making my adjustments, I simply turn the switch back on and within seconds my NAV system re-coordinates itself if there are any discrepancies with the satellite signals, speed signal, and map database. On the 1998-2000 Lexus, I don't think we have the override sequence I hear about incorporated in our NAV units. This prompt me to use this method instead. I haven't had any negative experiences yet.

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UPDATE:

I finally got together a DVD with 6.1 data (retained certain 5.1 file - look elsewhere on forum for that formula) and was successful at replicating it for backup and having the backup run in my replaced ECU (DVD unit in the trunk). The override of the lockout while moving is still there and functions properly.

So this confirms what several had stated previously (and as I've documented in this thread). If you have been upgraded to a version that doesn't have the override, you can downgrade with a simple battery disconnect, then insert the DVD you want to go to for proper operation.

BTW - a backup and reburn of the ISO image of my original 4.2 DVD failed. It was done on a Dell laptop with IMGBURN. Same TDK media was successful using Nero on another computer with the version 6.1 DVD. So, the burner and or software could be a problem.

Will I buy a map upgrade from Lexus? No. I'd rather spend half that amount on a smaller Garmin to get me through the times when I need newer data. OR use a cell phone that has navigation.

Will I buy another Lexus - maybe, but definitely NOT with built in navigation -- unless they restore the override.

When people ask me about my recommendation (buy a Lexus or get the built in nav), I will tell them the above, including the fact that the dealer refused to offer the $265 price on map upgrades that are mentioned on a postcard I just got this week. The dealer wanted $360 plus install charges. :-O

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  • 7 months later...
yea, I am not sure how you are going to spring that on them. Software is such a hassle to return. Good luck though!

If you decide to make a hybrid disc and have questions, let me know. I just recently made mine and it has much more current data than the 4.2 disc I had.

how do you make a hybrid disc? I have a 2004 LS430 gen4,I want to upgrade the disc but don't want to lose override option! can you helpme?

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