I Need Some Advice

[blake918]

As yall can tell by my signature, I am a proud owner of an ES. I absolutely love everything about the car except for one crutial, crutial thing. It's too freakin' small! I love the ride, powertrain, handling, style, etc., but it's just too small. So, I came up with a good solution: why not get an LS? I hear everyone say that they are very similar to the ES in that they are about comfort and smoothness which are what I am looking for. Plus, it's got a V8 and full window pillars(mcv10 and 20 guys know what I'm talking about!).

I am 6'3. My head barely clears the roof in the ES, but the limited legroom(or the lack there of) is what kills me! How much bigger is the LS in comparison to the ES? Or, I guess I'm looking for feedback from everyone about the comfort of their LS-especially in regards to head and legroom(I know a lot of you don't like the seats, but that's such a preferential thing to me!). I just don't know how much I can take the small ES anymore; my right leg literally gets cramps which ruins a teriffic car! (Yall are probably asking why I even got the car in the first place, but you put any 16y/o in a Lex and he[especially me] will melt!! I've had the car for about 7months, and I've poured about $2k of my own money into replacing the leather on the front seats and steering wheel as well as other various items in the car like the beloved hood struts and numerous other things. I bought her for $6.3k, so I think I'll be able to sell it for a bit more which will help get me into a LS)

Lastly, I searched, with no luck, for some differences between the different years(or maybe gens?) of the 90-94 LS's. Yall have any info here? Are any particular years in 90-94 better than others?

thank you so much for your help,

Blake

[90LS400Lexus]

As a owner of a 90 LS400 and the previous owner of a 1993 Toyota Camry LE V6- which the ES300 is based on (same engine as well)- the LS400 has a LOT more room. The room in the Camry was OK for me, but I could see how that car could be cramped for a tall person. I find that the Lexus has a lot more head room, as well as leg room than my old Camry. As far as ride and comfort- the LS will be much more comfortable than the ES. Air-suspension models I have heard have the best, cloud-like ride, but even the base standard suspension models still have a very smooth, soft ride, with good handling. The 1990-94 models were stated to have the best ride of any car sold then. The 4.0L V8 is smooth and very powerful. If maintained well and not abused, these cars can go well over 300K-500K miles. They are loaded with standard features.

About the differences between the LS400s- there are a few. I thought it was posted here, but it may have been on the clublexus.com Lexus site.

The 90-94 as you know is generation 1, 95-00? is generation 2, but the 98' got a significant facelift. I guess that the 01-04 is generation 3.

Within the 1st generation (1990-1994) I have heard that the 1990 LS400 has the worst brakes, but not by any means- bad brakes. My brakes are very smooth and powerful, so the 91-up must be exceptional. I have heard there was slight brake improvements (not sure what) on the 1991-1992 models and the 1993 added larger brakes and tires, which are considered big pluses for many. The 1993 also added outside temperature readout, digital odometer (digital trip odometer only on the 90-92), as well as redesigned wheels for 1993 and a passenger side airbag was added for 1993. Driverside only for the 1990-1992. Appearance wise- the 1990-1992 are identical and I think 93-94 as well, except for the wheels and added airbag.

1995 was slightly redesigned- which I think has a longer wheelbase and I think it had a redesigned instrument panel. Options are few. CD player, memory power seats, air-ride suspension, heated seats (beginning in 92'?) remote entry (1990), sunroof, leather interior & gold trim package were the few options on the 1990-? models. I think remote entry became standard for 1991. My car only has the remote entry, gold package, sunroof and leather options. I think the power/automatic tilt steering was standard for all years.

I am sure there is something I missed.

From what I have been able to gather- the 90-94 seem to be the more reliable generations- but ALL seem to be excellent cars. Instrument cluster and climate control LCD lighting can be trouble spots on the 1990-1997 models. Seems like I see more complaints of this problem on the 1993-1994 models. Power steering leak from the pump is also another trouble spot that should be checked. Air-suspension (optional) can be troublesome and expensive to replace.

I am sure many other will have a lot more to add, but hopefully this will help you a little.

[99lsguy]

98-00 Ls's will give you more leg room than any previous LS

The 01+ REALLY GIVES you more leg, head, and shoulder room but will cost you $32K plus......

[blake918]

Thanks for your replys 90&99LS! It's good to hear from a Camry owner because they are similar to the ES in someways(it's a touchy subject: ESvsCamry!). The differences you were talking about were on here, but they pretained to the 95-00 LS's which I would really like, but they are definantly out of the question($). However, the breakdown of 90-94 was just what I was looking for :) ! Thanks for the overall summary. Keep it comming :D

[90LS400Lexus]

Very true- since the ES was introduced in 1990 (was ES250 then) it was based on the Camry- and then with the 92 Camry redesign and the V6 engine becoming a 3.0L- the Lexus ES became the ES300. The ES250/ES300 is like an extreme luxury Camry. Camry's are excellent cars, so the ES250/ES300 are just as good. Most people (including Camry owners) do not realize that a Lexus is based on their cars. The ES's are excellent cars- if they are anything like the Camrys. My 1993 Camry LE V6 was a excellent, well-built car. It had 212K and still looked and ran like new. It was still 100% rattle and squeak free and had a very high quality interior. I would not mind having another. Even my old 1987 Camry (like a plain 1990-91 Lexus ES250)- was also a excellent, well-built car.

I am not 100% sure what other information you need , but I am sure that others will have more information.

Good luck.

[blake918]

I am not 100% sure what other information you need , but I am sure that others will have more information. 

I'm just looking for what you gave me ;) , your $.02 about the LS's comfort and how it would suit a rather tall person like me. I guess you could call the ES an extreme luxury Camry except for the ES250 which was very, very similar to its Camry counterpart. They(ES300 and Camry) share the same platform, engine, and tranny as well as little things inside like turn signal levers, etc. Almost everything else is completely different...brakes, suspension, seats, dash, interior and exterior styling, interior/exterior material quality, and the dreaded pilarless windows and high trunk height, etc. Like I said, it's a superb car, but it's just too small :( , or maybe I'm too big ?!?!?!? I agree Camry's are excellent cars and values; my friend's 95 V6 Camry(I was just shocked at the smoothness of the powertrain!) is what sold me on the Toyota/Lexus lineup! As a side note, how do you like your Taurus?

[mejojo]

I'm 6'4" and have been driving 1st Gen LS400 for 14 years. Very comfortably.

I can (and do) drive for hours and hours in comfort. Virtually all speed control is done (by me, anyway) with the cruise control stalk. My foot only touches the gas pedal when taking off from a stop (or the occasional dreaded stop-and-go that I have to deal with about 5 times a year).

Some people complain that the seats are not comfortable, but maybe there's something about being "taller" that gets it back into the comfort zone? I don't know...they work for me.

Joe

[acf]

I'm a hair under 6'3" and I don't have to slide the seat all the way back in my '97 to be comfy. B)

[blake918]

Thanks guys; yall are just the crowd I wanted to hear from :D . It's awesome it hear from someone that is taller than me for a change . I know; I'm with you on the seats; I hear a lot of people complain about the 1st gen seats, but it's all so preferential. mejojo, is it uncomfortable to drive in stop-and-go traffic which is about 85% of what I'll be doing?

Hmmm, acf, sounds like I need to get a 95+ LS, but I'll have to wait for the lottery until then I think my only option is a 'vintage' Lex (lets not forget I'm a poor[all of my $ is in the ES...I hope I'll be able to get some of it back!] h.s. senior :( ) .

thanks

geaux tigers!!!

[90LS400Lexus]

I am not 100% sure what other information you need , but I am sure that others will have more information. 

I'm just looking for what you gave me ;) , your $.02 about the LS's comfort and how it would suit a rather tall person like me. I guess you could call the ES an extreme luxury Camry except for the ES250 which was very, very similar to its Camry counterpart. They(ES300 and Camry) share the same platform, engine, and tranny as well as little things inside like turn signal levers, etc. Almost everything else is completely different...brakes, suspension, seats, dash, interior and exterior styling, interior/exterior material quality, and the dreaded pilarless windows and high trunk height, etc. Like I said, it's a superb car, but it's just too small :( , or maybe I'm too big ?!?!?!? I agree Camry's are excellent cars and values; my friend's 95 V6 Camry(I was just shocked at the smoothness of the powertrain!) is what sold me on the Toyota/Lexus lineup! As a side note, how do you like your Taurus?

Glad the information was helpful. I also agree about the ES250/ES300. I never thought much about it before, but the ES250 is more like a Camry than the ES300. ES300 does have the differences you mentioned. I am not sure how much higher quality/materials that the ES300 has over the Camry, as I have never closely looked or ridden in a ES300. I am guessing that the ES300/Camry is pretty close. My 1993 Camry had a very high quality interior. Most every interior panel was padded (Just like the Lexus ES300 & LS400) and all panels lined up evenly. Door panels felt solid and tightly secure. My Camry had 212,500 miles when I sold it and I was amazed that it was still 100% rattle and squeak free.

The LS400 should be even better.

In response to your question about my Taurus- considering it is a 1998 model, with 246,200 miles- it is a OK car. 246K is pretty impressive for a Ford- especially a Taurus. I bought it as a work car. The engine still runs like new and still does not leak or use any oil, but the transmission is getting tired, power steering pump growls and the radiator pan leaks. I added some transmission restorer and it has helped it a lot, but I will still probably sell or trade it- incase it gets bad again. This was my first Ford since my old 1983 Thunderbird that I had about 10-12 years ago. After I bought this Taurus- I said it would be my last Ford. It drives good, but this generation Taurus has a harsh ride (for a mid-sized car) and the styling is not all that great. My uncles have had older Fords and some of them are OK- but these newer ones seem "not-so-good".

[blake918]

I dunno if higher quality was the right word choice; I suppose more elegant and/or classy would be more on target B) .

Geez 246k on a Taurus?!?!?! That's incredible! I was looking at the Taurus line when I was first car shopping...because of the interior room and Niagra Falls style depreciation(a 3y/o model is well under 10k). The 2000 is my favorite; I love the styling and the simple, cheap, Hetrz-style interior. Your generation though is especially neat beacuse on the Duratech engines are dual exhausts B)(you have the Duratech or Vaulcan?) . Ford doesn't spend much on their car line because well...they don't need to. They know that Hertz and local Police officers will buy up Tauruses, Focui, and Crown Vics, so why pump millions in when you don't need to? Besides, they also know that if you want a good cheap car, you'll get a Camry which has a lot of $ in it. Ford saves all of their money for the F series trucks(how bout that new F150 B) ). With 246k you should just be happy with it moving out of the driveway ! (I'm not knocking Ford...246 is a lot of miles!. my mom and sister both have mustangs which have been very, very reliable little cars) BTW, how tall are you 90LS4?

[90LS400Lexus]

I thought 246K was pretty amazing for a Taurus as well. It goes to show that proper maintainence will really help a car last. My Taurus was a 1-owner, company owned car- so they took care of it mechanically. You are also 100% correct about the depreciation. I only paid $1300. for my 1998 model. I have seen 2000 models here sell for as low as $6000. The 2000-up would be the better choice, as they have better styling (I think) and the ride is supposed to be more supple- according to road test reports. My car has the base 3.0L V6, but I think it has single exhaust. I have heard of those engine names you mentioned however. I am not sure what the 3.0L V6 that my car has is called.

The interior on my Taurus is quite roomy, as you mentioned. Although I am not a tall person- I am only about 5'5, small cars still seemed to have a cramped interior to me- for example- my mothers 1998 Oldsmobile Acheiva (smallest Oldsmobile for 1998) does seem very cramped when I drive it.

My 1992 Buick is very roomy- as expected for a large American car.

[Lexus.]

you dont have to be tall to enjoy a larger car like LS...I'm only tick under six feet and even I feel cramped in a ES...

as for Tauri, I've seen many V-8 Lincoln Towncars go 400,000+ miles with proper maintenance

[VBdenny]

You were lucky with the Taurus. My brother made the mistake of buying a Taurus in 2001( even though I warned him about buying Fords). The car leaks oil, the battery goes dead without explaination, brakes wear out in 10K miles and the car will not come out of park sometimes. The car has been to the dealer repeated times for the same problems and they can't seem to fix it. Junk for the junkyard as we use to say. The car is almost up to 35,000 miles now and getting worse!

[blake918]

you dont have to be tall to enjoy a larger car like LS...I'm only tick under six feet and even I feel cramped in a ES...

as for Tauri, I've seen many V-8 Lincoln Towncars go 400,000+ miles with proper maintenance

I know; I hope I didn't imply it . The 03 Lincoln TC is by far the most comfortable and roomy car I've ever driven; I've never been in an LS4 though. I've also heard that about cars(TC, Crown Vic) with the 4.6 and good maint. going on forever.

[acf]

BTW Blake, I'm surprised that you're only 17 yrs. old, your maturity is impressive especially concerning your respect for your car. :) As far as being rich (enough to own my car), trust me I'm not. I paid 16k for it and was even able to finance it at a great rate and I pay only $300/month. I know that's not easy for a high-schooler but maybe your parents would co-sign a loan for you once you get a good job (after graduation?) (if you don't have one already). Anyway, keep up the good work!

[blake918]

Thank you so much for the kind words acf :D . My dad is a mechanical engineer, so I knew what a V8 was when I was like 5 and always loved cars since(my neighbors think I'm nuts because I religiously wash the Lexi every week-that's why the paint is still a 10/10)...lol. My ES...I got it on May22, 2003 (How's this for obsession?!?!?) with 106k for $6300. Her interior was very shabby-which included a few holes the size of quaters in the seat and the steering wheel was so bad American Stitches had to rebuild part of it(!), but about $1300(steering wheel, seats, oem floor mats) later the inside looks brand new. I had pics up of the seats, but then the server crashed. Here is the before and after of the steering wheel http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...e=post&id=19968, http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...e=post&id=19969, http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...e=post&id=19970 (I have bought new mats since this picture-they cost an arm and a leg, but they are soo beautiful! they really make the car feel new!). I've got a good job which is where I'm at now! I'm a drawing organizer(boring, but great money!), and I cut 7 lawns(which is also good money!). I worked half of the summer at the engineering co(I only work when they get new sets of drawings in); I put about $2200 in my pocket, but it's all gone now...well the ES has commandeered every last cent ! At least it went into something worth while. I haven't graduated yet; I'm a very young senior(won't be 18 until aug.). I guess I really should go find some used LS's to look at to see for myself. I always get treated well because I pull up in my Lex, and they think I'm some rich kid with a lot of money. I just let them think that to keep up the good service B) !

BTW, I never figured out the dent wizzard thing either

[acf]

Wow, that does look almost new! Its a shame the previous owner(s) let the car get in that condition in the first place. :chairshot:

And you're right, looks like there aren't any retail DW stores in LA. :(

[90LS400Lexus]

You were lucky with the Taurus.  My brother made the mistake of buying a Taurus in 2001( even though I warned him about buying Fords).  The car leaks oil, the battery goes dead without explaination, brakes wear out in 10K miles and the car will not come out of park sometimes.  The car has been to the dealer repeated times for the same problems and they can't seem to fix it.  Junk for the junkyard as we use to say.  The car is almost up to 35,000 miles now and getting worse!

You are right. I have heard a lot of bad things about this car. I was not in the market for a Taurus, but this one was priced so cheap ($1300), I thought it was too good to pass up and I would use it as a work car- which I am actually doing now. I would not pay big $$ for one of these cars.

Actually - there is currently a 2003 Taurus listed in the local classified trading post for $10,995- so these cars can be bought even cheaper than a Dodge Neon.

From the sound of your brothers car- it sounds like they still have not improved. I have heard that the 1992-1995 Taurus' (later years of the older body style) are the best ones to own.

Luckily, my Taurus still does not leak oil, even with 246K. The battery on mine did keep going dead when it would set for about 2 days, but it was because the battery was old. It still had the original 5 year old Motorcraft Ford battery until I changed it last week. My brakes are powerful, but the rotors need turning badly. One good thing about your brothers car is that it sticks in park, rather than jumping out of park. I know that some of the older Fords of the 1970s thru the early 1990s- was commonly known for jumping out of park and rolling unexpectedly.

[blake918]

Hey guys, thanks again for all of the feedback :D . I truely appreciate it. I talked to my parents about switching Lexi's(ES for LS) and they didn't freak(I've only had my ES for 8months which is also my first car)...that made me happy! So, today I was bored, so I went and looked at a LS by myself. I was pleasently suprised with the actual design of the car. This particular LS, a 1993 LS, was a ragged, dare I say neglected car...the leather was in shambles-it was ripped in the back on the top of the seat and the driver's seat had a bad brush burn, the wood surrounding the window switches was comming up, the paint on the center caps was 90% gone on all rims, the locking mechanism on the rear passenger door didn't work, I wasn't crazy about the condition of the black paint(there were a lot of chips or maybe peeling of the black on the top of the front bumper, or maybe it's b/c my ES's paint is in tip top shape...but it took some work to get it there! thanks Steve), and the floor mats were horrible. This car would need a good $1500 to get to a livable(my translation=mint!) condition.

The guy was asking $7k, and he said he didn't want to come down much because he just spent $3k on a timing belt and a/c componets. With 136k miles, I thought that was a very steep number! Also, when I got into the driver's seat, the seat foam seemed to move/flex a lot...kind of like the soft seats in a Caddy or Grand Marquis(no offense!); flex isn't even in the vocab. of the seats in my ES with only 20k miles less. Perhaps it was just this worn car; however, once I got situated, I was pleased with the comfort-legroom, headroom, and seats. The bottom hinged gas pedal is soooooooo cool B) ...I dunno why it's so cool either ! I definantly think I'm going to become a 90-94 LS(I'll keep dreaming about the greatest Lexus ever though='00 beige LS4 with nav!) owner soon. Now I just need to find the perfect one! I saw one I really liked on ebay, but it didn't have any of the options that I am looking for(mainly traction control which is another thing that I like, and I don't know why! But this car didn't even have memory seats nor power telescoping wheel). I think it was a 91 with 105k for $6500 buy it now price. I'll keep looking though; the worn 93 that I looked at today was the only 1 in the paper which is pretty suprising.

Any ideas on where to sell the ES(which is about as mint as 10 y/o gets clink the garage link in my sig.-tell me what yall think)? I really think I'm gonna cry when she goes :( ...what a teriffic car for anyone under 6'.

[acf]

Car looks great, blake. You might want to mention selling it in the ES forum as well as there is a Buy/Sell forum here. I'm sure all the LOC members will appreciate the care you've put into your car.

Btw, have you driven an LS yet?

[blake918]

Car looks great, blake.

Thanks :D . I would sell the car on here, but I think I would get more either on ebay or the local paper. I'm really hoping to get atleast half of the money I poured in out.

I haven't driven one yet, but I sure want to! I wanted to drive the one I looked at yesterday, but I knew that I wasn't going to buy the car, and I just thought that if I drove it then they would be calling me to hassle me.

What's quite weird is this guy traded his LS for an ES, and I want to do just the opposite . They told me that the ES's ride quality is no where near the ES's...I actually believed him on this one. It's kinda funny going into a situation like this and you know more than the person whose had the car for several years :) . He didn't even know how to lower the seat belt post!

[RCRFAN3]

Ask Meist21 about his 98 LS 400. He is 6'4" and fits in his fine.

[bodykitsdepot]

Hi

Why don't you not try other model like Honda civic body kits? Its looking very good and give luxerious experience while driving.

[billydpowell]

Hi

Why don't you not try other model like Honda civic body kits? Its looking very good and give luxerious experience while driving.

your about 10 years late with your comment.....