Big Three Bailout (merged)

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Here's my take, fwiw. It wasn't but a short time ago, GM was singing a different tune:

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/11/19/ap5717126.html

Obviously, GM based their horribly bad guess on the pathetic idea that their giant land barges would continue to sell for huge profits, regarless of peak oil staring us all in the face. Now, for those who'll jump in and 'kneejerk' say, "what about $1.50 gas now days". Our current low fossle fuel prices are still simply a product of supply & demand. People loosing jobs right & left, less folks out in their RV's, quads, airplanes, toy haulers, commercial flights, less homes being built, and the rest of the world following suit. So that whole peak oil issue is still looming on the horizon, just waiting to raise its ugly head, should the global economy even think about picking up a lot of steem.

Yet GM, still convinced in the wisdom of quick profits, went chugging along with guzzlers. Sure, other manufacturers did the same, but not to the extent GM did/does. So GM crunched bad numbers. Seems to me a boat load of *BLEEP* poor number crunchers / finance employees need to hit the road. The bankruptcy trustee will put better people in place, and get rid of THAT deadwood, as well as extinguish all GM's bad debt. Then GM will carry on. Airlines go ch 11, and the world doesn't end. So did AMC, Morris minor, Tucker, Checker, Rambler, etc. Heck for that matter EVERYTHING changes ... no more roman empire, greek empire, Egypt, and Great Brittin no longer rules the world too.

Go with the flow. Our system can no longer be based on the model of the '57 Chevy, pulling into a diner ... roller skate waitress coming up to the car. Eventually, we need to get off the idea that our society must run on a stupid car as being everything. It's just transportation ... to get from A to B. The sooner we can dial that down to a super cheep science (a massive rail system like much of the rest of the world), the sooner we can go on with other things. Again, it just IMO, but so far, for me & many others, it still holds water.

[lenore]

This is Detroits biggest problem and why should we bailout bad business practices:

Subject: Fw: Detroit 3 Automakers - Union Wages

D3 - Detroit 3 Automakers - Union Wages According to Forbes:

Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers.

> Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)

GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)

> Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)

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Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

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According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a

college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

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Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

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What would "transformational" mean?

One way to think about "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school diploma, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a PhD.

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> Then there's the "Job Bank"

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When a D3 (Detroit 3 carmaker) lays an employee off, that employee continnues to receive all benefits - medical, retirement, etc., etc., PLUS an hourly wage of $31/hour.

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> Here's a typical story....

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Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony,

but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

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"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."

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Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.

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Now the D3 wants Joe Taxpayer to pick up this tab in a $25 Billion bailout package - soon to be increased to $45 Billion if Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton have their way.

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The "Big 3" want this money - not to build better autos. No. They want it to pay the tab for Medical and Retirement benefits for RETIRED auto workers. Not ONE PENNY would be used to make them more competitive, or to improve the quality of their cars.

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We ALL have problems paying for our Medical Insurance - but the Democrat leaders in Congress now want us to pay the Medical Insurance premiums of folks who have RETIRED from Ford, GM and Chrysler.

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Not a good deal for us. How about Chapter 11 - and getting rid of these ridiculous union contracts

[smooth1]

Filing for bankruptcy and reorganizing with a new competitive plan is the only real solution here. Chrysler really only wanted the money to spruce up the line and make it more marketable to sell the company off. GM is in the most trouble though. They are going down fast and probably are not very viable in the near future market. GM needs to think 5-10 years from now. They need to sell off everything and cut the union contracts out, and almost start all over again as just GM and Chevy. Ford will struggle, but they did have alot better sales with the F150, Mustang, and some foriegn models, not to mention Mazda has been doing alright for them over the years, as opposed to Land Rover and Jaguar. Volvo has a good history, but volume is way down also.

There are things that come to mind when I think about all this. Like what really happened? Remember when Ford battled head to head with the Taurus against the Camary and the Accord? It was like Ford just gave up in the mid to late 90's and started going in this strange direction, despite Toyota and Honda having more and more success. Chevy hasn't made a well designed, nice looking, sedan, let alone "sport" sedan since the Nova in the late 70's! And if you were to take away fleet sales from all the american car mfgrs, we would then see the real sales numbers. If it hadn't been for the SUV market going nuts, all 3 would have sunk years ago! I don't see anything else in thier line up that even remotely interests me. The new Camaro? The Mustang, the new Challenger, they are cool cars, but when I look across the market and I see BMW 3 series, the MB C class, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, Audi, Saab and Volvo. All priced in the $36-50K range, not a single american made contender. In the $18-36K range you have Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Cooper, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, and Kia. I can't think of a single american made vehicle that truly competes with any of these. The all new Malibu? maybe.........the Fusion?.......MKS?...........that's the best they can do?

It's almost like the Ford, Chrysler and GM are saying, "ok, you don't want to buy our cars? then just give us your money anyway.

[JENunnez]

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

I think this fits into this thread, and the end of the video says it all.

[smooth1]

I think it's time we take a closer look at the UAW as a society. Actually, labor unions in general. The UAW has turned into what it was fighting against. Along with alot of the other labor unions.