Transmission Fluid In Radiator Overflow Container

[Marc Robert]

I found on the garage floor transmission fluid in the front right area...... When I had it checked the next day at my service center, they found at least 12oz of Trany Fluid (Dark Red) sitting on top of the lighter red Radiator Fluid in the Coolant Overflow tank. The Servicer cleaned out the Coolant Overflow Tank, and also found the Radiator cap rubber Seal was completley distorted and replaced it. My experience is that certain non-compatible fluids will alter certain rubber components. We are going to wait a few days and inspect the fluid tanks again to see if any more cross contamination has occured. My concern is of course has the coolant gotten into the tranny and is damaging it, and or has enough Trany fluid gotten in to the coolant train and has damaged the seals on the water pump..... I found only one reference to the "Trans-Cooler" on an individuals site for the RX300, but would hope someone has some advice on what I should do next.. and should I take it to a Transmission Shop, Radiaitor Shop (for pressure testing) or just have the Service Center do it all.........

[code58]

I found on the garage floor transmission fluid in the front right area...... When I had it checked the next day at my service center, they found at least 12oz of Trany Fluid (Dark Red) sitting on top of the lighter red Radiator Fluid in the Coolant Overflow tank. The first thought was that the tech at the "E-Z Lube" oil change I had 5 months prior (3100 miles) misstakenly "Topped OFF' the wrong vessel. But too much Fluid (and Time) rules this out thus far. The Servicer cleaned out the Coolant Overflow Tank, and also found the Radiator cap rubber Seal was completley distorted and replaced it. My experience is that certain non-compatible fluids will alter certain rubber components. We are going to wait a few days and inspect the fluid tanks again to see if any more cross contamination has occured. My concern is of course has the coolant gotten into the tranny and is damaging it, and or has enough Trany fluid gotten in to the coolant train and has damaged the seals on the water pump..... I found only one reference to the "Trans-Cooler" on an individuals site for the RX300, but would hope someone has some advice on what I should do next.. and should I take it to a Transmission Shop, Radiaitor Shop (for pressure testing) or just have the Service Center do it all.........

Marc- Yea, that's bad news if it is actually cross contamination. The coolant in the trans. (if it is) causes the paper (pretty much what it is) on the clutch faces to soften and come apart and travel throughout the trans. Not a pretty sight. If caught when it 1st. happens you can flush it out good and maybe save the trans. as long as the clutch facing hasn't soften and come apart. Hope for your sake it was low IQ dude at "E-Z Lube". Seems to be no shortage of them. I wouldn't darken the door of a quick lube place.

[mccldwll]

Is it more likely that trans tubing in radiator has ruptured causing the cross contamination (assuming that Lexus is set up the same as most other car rads)? Didn't you find any rad fluid in the trans fluid? 12 oz seems like a lot for one way transfer, especially since coolant under pressure.

[Grumpa72]

Is it more likely that trans tubing in radiator has ruptured causing the cross contamination (assuming that Lexus is set up the same as most other car rads)? Didn't you find any rad fluid in the trans fluid? 12 oz seems like a lot for one way transfer, especially since coolant under pressure.

I agree that this is a cross-contamination issue, most likely. Has your mechanic checked it? You have a radiator cooler for the transmission and I suspect it is leaking.

[Marc Robert]

But the question at this point is this: What System... Radiator or Transmission has more Pressure? i.e. Is the Radiator pressure greater than the Trany circulation pressure that would then force Coolant into the Trani system.....?

[mikey00]

The RX300 does not have a radiator mounted transmission cooler, unless you have some kind of aftermarket cooler. The factory trans cooler is mounted behind the right front fender well under the windshield fluid bottle. Use a flashlight to look through the louvers in the wheel well to see it. If you are finding trans fluid on the floor coming from this area this might be it. But this still doesn't explain trans fluid in the coolant. Are you sure it is trans fluid and not oil?

[Marc Robert]

The Fluid that was found in the Radiator Coolant Bottle is DARK RED, and was "sitting" on top of the Lightrer color RED Radiator Coolant...See the attatched Photo.... Just Like Oil and Water not Mixing.....

The tech saved it in a 32oz or so bottle, and we transferred into and filled a 12 oz clear water bottle... After a few Minutes... one is floating on top of the other....... Very distinctive......

If in fact the engine radiator and transmission radiator are seperate and do not interconnect anywhere..... then this mystery is now official......

[mikey00]

I guess you deleted some info from your original post. I just re-read your original post from within code58's reply and saw your info about possibly topping off the wrong vessel which is now missing from your post. I bet that is what happened, as long as you are sure it is not oil and you are not consuming oil or seeing coolant in the oil.

[mccldwll]

I guess you deleted some info from your original post. I just re-read your original post from within code58's reply and saw your info about possibly topping off the wrong vessel which is now missing from your post. I bet that is what happened, as long as you are sure it is not oil and you are not consuming oil or seeing coolant in the oil.

Do a remix. Put an oz. of rad fluid in each of 2 glasses. Add an oz. of your engine oil to one glass and an oz. of trans fluid to another. See what it looks like.

[Grumpa72]

The RX300 does not have a radiator mounted transmission cooler, unless you have some kind of aftermarket cooler. The factory trans cooler is mounted behind the right front fender well under the windshield fluid bottle. Use a flashlight to look through the louvers in the wheel well to see it. If you are finding trans fluid on the floor coming from this area this might be it. But this still doesn't explain trans fluid in the coolant. Are you sure it is trans fluid and not oil?

Hmm, learned something new. Does that apply to the 330 - too lazy to go to the garage and look

[Marc Robert]

For those of you who have responded to my problem, please let me thank you.....

Here's the latest:

I had a good conversation with the lead tech at Lexus here and reviewed what I had found. he told me that this vehicle not only has a small External Cooler in the right well area, but it indeed also connects into an additional cooler insdie the radiator. The worst of both in my opinion, only for the fact that they use all the same color fluids!. If it was the transmission fluid mixing with the coolant, he felt it would be a continuos process. But at this point since my servicer cleaned out the Radiator Overflow Bottle, no evidence of "Co-Mingling" has resurfaced. I then went back to my servicer to check the progress after driving for several days, and as I said, no more evidence of contamination. The mechanic feels strongly it is Brake Fluid after examining it. It would make sense if the "E-Z Lube" center did as we now believe inadvertenly pour it in the wrong adjacent bottle (Even though the paperwork from them indicates NO Filling of this Fluis (or any others)...... Even I find this difficult to fathom, and am torn about taking it to court or the BBB..... It's not exactly a proveable claim..... but as they say "A Preponderance of the Evidence"...... The only thing I haven't done, but really don't want to do unless required is have a radiator shop pressure test the Trani Coolant lines into the radiator to eliminate any theories that its an intemittent leak. None of the servicers I spoke with suggested this... it was my idea but don't you think I would have to do this to disprove E-Z Lubes claim that this was the cause?

[jgr7]

I would do a drain of the trans and refill with fresh Toyota trans fluid just to see if there is any sign of trouble with the fluid in the transmission. Was the transmission fluid low when you checked?

As to the claim of intermittent leak from the trans lines inside the radiator that's not gonna happen. They either leak or they don't, they wont heal themselves up. The lines connect on the outside of the radiator so it couldn't be a leaky connection it would have to be a cracked internal line and that would get worse not better.

I think I would also do a radiator drain and flush to make sure that none of whatever type of fluid that is ruins the hoses or seals in my water pump. Oil and rubber don't always go good together unless they were made to.

Jeff

[Marc Robert]

Jeff...

All good suggestions and ones that I am contemplating now. The original oil change was done 5 months ago, so whatever has been circulating has been going on for some time and not likely to be corrected by doing flushes at this late date. As to your question, the Trans F;luid was okay.. no problem and not suffering form "Strawberry Milk Shake Syndrome" which the mechanic described what the two fluids look like when mixed together rapidly. My ongoing conversations with the "Lube Place" has been productive in that now they ask I send them a sample of the fluid in question so they can send it out to a lab for indentification. I want to do the same thing independently of them, but I am having difficulty in finding a "Lab" who does such analysis. If anyone knows of one (where the cost is less than the repairs) I would appreciate hearing from you.....

[code58]

Jeff...

All good suggestions and ones that I am contemplating now. The original oil change was done 5 months ago, so whatever has been circulating has been going on for some time and not likely to be corrected by doing flushes at this late date. As to your question, the Trans F;luid was okay.. no problem and not suffering form "Strawberry Milk Shake Syndrome" which the mechanic described what the two fluids look like when mixed together rapidly. My ongoing conversations with the "Lube Place" has been productive in that now they ask I send them a sample of the fluid in question so they can send it out to a lab for indentification. I want to do the same thing independently of them, but I am having difficulty in finding a "Lab" who does such analysis. If anyone knows of one (where the cost is less than the repairs) I would appreciate hearing from you.....

Marc- Did they flush the radiator? There may not have been much if any mixing of the fluids- it's my DIL's RX so I don't remember right now where the tube from the O/F exits to the radiator. Sometimes from the bottom and sometimes from the top. If it's the bottom, it may have only primarily exchanged coolant as it warmed and cooled and if from the top, probably the same because the pickup goes to the bottom of the tank. The fluid (oil?) would stay on the top as it did in the bottle. It doesn't look like brake fluid to me, at least in the picture, because brake fluid is never that dark. (new fluid anyway) You should be able to smell it and tell if it is brake fluid or tranny fluid, they smell enough different. As a matter of fact, most fluids used under the hood smell enough different that you should be able to identify most of them by closing your eyes and smelling. Google "Bob is the oil guy" and you'll not only find an excellent site but also find info about testing labs. I have always changed my own oil but even if I didn't, I would hit myself in the head a few times with a large hammer before I would ever trust my vehicle to a "Quick change oil place". I've seen and heard enough horror stories to keep me awake at night.

[mccldwll]

Jeff...

All good suggestions and ones that I am contemplating now. The original oil change was done 5 months ago, so whatever has been circulating has been going on for some time and not likely to be corrected by doing flushes at this late date. As to your question, the Trans F;luid was okay.. no problem and not suffering form "Strawberry Milk Shake Syndrome" which the mechanic described what the two fluids look like when mixed together rapidly. My ongoing conversations with the "Lube Place" has been productive in that now they ask I send them a sample of the fluid in question so they can send it out to a lab for indentification. I want to do the same thing independently of them, but I am having difficulty in finding a "Lab" who does such analysis. If anyone knows of one (where the cost is less than the repairs) I would appreciate hearing from you.....

Again, why not try the visual comparison I suggested above, adding brake fluid to the comparison (though the color doesn't sound right). Visual comparisons can be pretty accurate (swimming pool chemical test strips). Also, you posted "found the Radiator cap rubber Seal was completley distorted and replaced it." That ain't right. There should be clues there about pressure and heat of rad fluid if system not properly pressurized. If rad cap not properly reinstalled months ago,not only would coolant have overheated but trans fluid might have been under greater pressure than coolant, especially if idiot overfilled trans fluid. Also, overheat may not have been too great for the engine or trans. They may suspect that. Don't let those clowns off the hook.

[mikey00]

For those of you who have responded to my problem, please let me thank you.....

Here's the latest:

I had a good conversation with the lead tech at Lexus here and reviewed what I had found. he told me that this vehicle not only has a small External Cooler in the right well area, but it indeed also connects into an additional cooler insdie the radiator.

Anyone else know anything about this additional cooler inside the radiator on a RX 300 or is this Lexus tech possibly confused with another model? I checked my 01 and don't see any trans lines going into the radiator. I also have both the 1999 and 2003 factory service manuals and the only cooler I see referenced is the one in the fender well.

[Ericok]

For those of you who have responded to my problem, please let me thank you.....

Here's the latest:

I had a good conversation with the lead tech at Lexus here and reviewed what I had found. he told me that this vehicle not only has a small External Cooler in the right well area, but it indeed also connects into an additional cooler insdie the radiator.

Anyone else know anything about this additional cooler inside the radiator on a RX 300 or is this Lexus tech possibly confused with another model? I checked my 01 and don't see any trans lines going into the radiator. I also have both the 1999 and 2003 factory service manuals and the only cooler I see referenced is the one in the fender well.

The 2000 year shop manual shows 2 oil cooler lines from the transmission going to the radiator and actually has a repair procedure for it. You can replace the oil cooler portion if you're willing to disassemble the radiator. (and can find the part).

[mikey00]

For those of you who have responded to my problem, please let me thank you.....

Here's the latest:

I had a good conversation with the lead tech at Lexus here and reviewed what I had found. he told me that this vehicle not only has a small External Cooler in the right well area, but it indeed also connects into an additional cooler insdie the radiator.

Anyone else know anything about this additional cooler inside the radiator on a RX 300 or is this Lexus tech possibly confused with another model? I checked my 01 and don't see any trans lines going into the radiator. I also have both the 1999 and 2003 factory service manuals and the only cooler I see referenced is the one in the fender well.

The 2000 year shop manual shows 2 oil cooler lines from the transmission going to the radiator and actually has a repair procedure for it. You can replace the oil cooler portion if you're willing to disassemble the radiator. (and can find the part).

Where in the manual are you finding it? Maybe I can find it in mine if I have an idea where you are looking.

[Ericok]

For those of you who have responded to my problem, please let me thank you.....

Here's the latest:

I had a good conversation with the lead tech at Lexus here and reviewed what I had found. he told me that this vehicle not only has a small External Cooler in the right well area, but it indeed also connects into an additional cooler insdie the radiator.

Anyone else know anything about this additional cooler inside the radiator on a RX 300 or is this Lexus tech possibly confused with another model? I checked my 01 and don't see any trans lines going into the radiator. I also have both the 1999 and 2003 factory service manuals and the only cooler I see referenced is the one in the fender well.

The 2000 year shop manual shows 2 oil cooler lines from the transmission going to the radiator and actually has a repair procedure for it. You can replace the oil cooler portion if you're willing to disassemble the radiator. (and can find the part).

Where in the manual are you finding it? Maybe I can find it in mine if I have an idea where you are looking.

It's in Volume 2, Cooling Section, and gives details under "components" and "removal".

[Marc Robert]

We took another look at the various fluids today and still no mixtures seen of fluids. Since I will be needing documentation that I checked all possible scenarios, I spoke with a transmission shop and they agreed that if any contamination were present from coolant in to the transmission, we would see a strawberry colored mizxture on the trani dipstick....... One of the suggestions led me to a company that will do an analysis, but so far 3 different labs told me that differentiating bewteen various fluids is difficult...... And the most interesting thing I learned was that the local Caterpillar Service center (yes.. the guys who service those giant engines and generators) will sell you a oil analysis kit for only $15.95, and they will send it out for the results. Typically any of these tests will disclose contamination.... such as metal, viscosity brakdown, etc. Identifying the difference between Brake Fluid, and Trani Fluid is a lot tougher.

[Marc Robert]

I'm in the process now of taking samples from the vehicle and sending some off for analysis. I'll be drawing off from the Cooling System, Brake, Transmission, and Power Steering in addition and placing all the fluids in small vials I obtained to allow for easy comparison. I decided to consult the Lexus Owners Manual to copy some pictures from it to show as evidence the various entry points recommended to fill them BUT I cannot find any reference in the manual directing one where to fill the transmission fluid. I'm sure I'm missing it somewhere, so if any of you have a moment to check your manuals (99' Lexus RX300 2wd), I would appreciate a page number to where its located. They clearly list every other fluid fill point, but I'm just not seeing it..... In fact.. check page 237.... It doesn't even note the Transmission Fluid Dipstick!!!!

[Ericok]

I'm in the process now of taking samples from the vehicle and sending some off for analysis. I'll be drawing off from the Cooling System, Brake, Transmission, and Power Steering in addition and placing all the fluids in small vials I obtained to allow for easy comparison. I decided to consult the Lexus Owners Manual to copy some pictures from it to show as evidence the various entry points recommended to fill them BUT I cannot find any reference in the manual directing one where to fill the transmission fluid. I'm sure I'm missing it somewhere, so if any of you have a moment to check your manuals (99' Lexus RX300 2wd), I would appreciate a page number to where its located. They clearly list every other fluid fill point, but I'm just not seeing it..... In fact.. check page 237.... It doesn't even note the Transmission Fluid Dipstick!!!!

It's filled thru the transmission dipstick.