1990LS400 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Unfortunately, because of Clintons a house for everyone, and the sub prime mortgage crap, my 401k and everyone else's wont have much left for the government to take. I stand corrected on that, but The Democrats through committee meetings have this in their sites, as they know the money is running out, and it just kills them to see these huge sums in the hands of Americans. The checks and balances in our government may dissappear with this election, the only solution is a third party that can counter the two that have become so alike. Hey working at Walmart may be my option.... I actually do suspect that those of us who have been financially responsible will end up having to foot most of the bill to bail the U.S. of its current financial mess. It sometimes seems like my wife and I spent the last five years trying to persuade friends and acquaintances to prepare for the current financial meltdown. A few listened and changed their ways but most did not. It's hard for most people to not follow the herd when their government is encouraging them to spend... spend... spend. The most frustrating aspect of this mess for us is how the Clinton administration left a legacy of balanced budgets and declining national debt that was then squandered by the Bush administration with its tax cuts for the wealthy, Iraqi adventure, and "consumer driven economy" fantasies. Deficit spending doesn't work for individuals and it doesn't work for countries. The cows always come home to roost! Economic bubbles are nothing new. Humans are not all that bright a species. The economic cycles of boom and bust will likely never end and it is always going to be up to individuals to decide if they want to thrive or be hurt during these cycles. The next few years are likely to be economically painful for most Americans. In our view, Obama is far and away the best person to unite Americans in dealing with this pain. Lenore has a good point about a need for a "third party". Demographic trends are going to hit the Republican Party like a freight trains over the nex 10 - 20 years. Perhaps the best hope of the Republican Party is to have its "wing nuts" and "religious right" split off into a separate party so that the Republican Party can move back towards the center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX in NC Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Regardless of how you vote next Tuesday or how the election turns out, the absolute best course of action you can take for yourself and your family is to make a commitment to ALWAYS LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS.... If you do that, you'll eventually build up a measure of financial protection that will minimize your pain during times like these. None of us is untouched by the current financial system collapse, but some of us are far less prone to any type of personal financial crisis as a result of our long-term plans and actions. I'm not thrilled about inflation levels for everything from food to healthcare or the declining value of our eventual retirement funds, but because we have no debt, we have far more disposable income to cover the costs of the necessities of life than most folks do.... Take the time to study and analyze what living within your means actually requires for you and your family, and then work on developing the backbone and commitment to actually do it. That's the best financial strategy you'll ever deploy for yourself and your loved ones.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Well said, RXNC I am afraid our government and most of my fellow Americans have failed to live within their means. I have cut back a great deal in the last three years, but I am afraid I am too guilty of not controlling my expenses. Most of the time it is an emotional thing (family needs, etc) but I am doing well, considering I wake up, and take care of my grandchild everyday Monday thru Friday. The future of our nation is riding on whom gets us to turn around and become proud, self sufficient Americans again. Government will not do that....however they can like the cancer in our society continue to support bad behavior....until they cut off the umbilical cord, these children(adults) will never be weaned from the cash cow called government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander the o.k. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I swear, it's like talking to myself reading you guys. Well done RX and lenore. Message is 100% on target. Self reliance, not dependance on BigGov is indeed the key. Obama represents the same ol BigGov, just with a shifting of (our) assets to his pet ideals. More of the same, with just a twist of lemon, to make it taste a little better/ different. Something 'new' to talk about. Just more of the same. No fundamental change. It's all talk, talk talk, ad nauseum. Washington is a machine, and no one person will change it for the better. It will keep on churning out the same handouts (but to obama peeps instead of bush peeps), and chew up and spit out 'mavericks', or conform whoever is in office, to it's proscribed program. Anyone who thinks differently, is naive at best, and deluding themselves at worst. The power is really in your own hands. Not some fly by night politico. Or one who is bought and paid for. Take control of your own future. Do not wait on BigGov to proscribe it for or to you. Whichever way it goes, we're all still hosed (read over-taxed, and made into sheeple). Sorry, but the current crop of politicos is less than awe-inspiring. Rant off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well, guess it's my turn, eh fellas! I'm absolutely voting for Obama now, no question in my mind. And I'll tell you why. Out of this entire financial mess we're in now, there is only ONE real, actual, can be clearly identified, can be clearly blamed, trigger that caused it.... the lack of regulation oversight in the housing financial market, single family. Nobody was watching as bad loan after bad loan was approved, then packaged into securitization pools of utter nonsense called CDO's "collateral debt obligations" with rating agencies on the payroll to give those packages AAA credit ratings. Match that with Greenspan's lack of understanding what too much liquidity in the market place can lead too "he kept interest rates too low for too long", and you've got a perfect brew of crap-soup. As a former credit union guy in commercial lending, I knew when the NCUA regulators would come to town and rip through our books to make sure we were doing it right. But, where in the h*ll were the same counterparters over at the FDIC on the bank side? Of all the mess, this is the one and only true trigger. The rest of this stuff, is "emotional" plays on the lack of confidence that has spread across the world. And if the world wants Obama, then I do to. We have got to break out of this cowboy, you do it our way or else, frame of mind, especially right now. And this is coming from the member of this forum who for years had G.W. Bush as his avatar and defending his actions. I also think that in a nation with an annual growth rate of approx. the size of Atlanta, "out of the box" thinking is needed sometimes...this is one of those times. Cutting spending across the board will only allow our infrastructure to continue aging "I'm talking roads, bridges, schools, etc". Obama is right, we've been using the ax for the past several years....we now need a scalpel and do a little open-heart surgery on the nation. It wasn't Clinton's "house for everyone" platform that did this. It was the reversal of regulations with the banking and financial markets over the past 8 years that did it. It allowed scumbag used car salesmen to become residential mortgage brokers. The system was abused, and now it's toast. I'm also voting for Obama for very personal reasons. As many of you know, and/or have figured out about me, I'm in commercial real estate lending for one of the nation's largest private insurance companies. We're one of the only ones left on the stage right now, with over $1.5 billion to invest. I've issued investment committments for single projects north of $350m+. I got here over the past 6 years by taking the long road, learning the runs on the ladder, when most others simply went straight to MBA school and got in at this level from there "but don't know how to do it". I'm not proud to admit that I've foreclosed on nursing homes in Alabama "quit that place inside of 6 months", I've hidden out in the residential sector with National City Mortgage after 9/11. I've financed start-ups, SBA, business lines of credit, doctor offices, entire fleets of service vehicles, over the road 18 wheelers, even airplanes. I can walk into just about any mall in this country and tell you which shops are going to make it, and which aren't, just by the type of cash register they have. But, even though I'm now with an operation "have been for the past 2 1/2 years" that is not hurting, is not over staffed, and has cornered the market....I'm being forced to decide between moving to Chicago, or losing my job. My boss is retiring at the end of Jan., and the powers that be have decided to give our footprint "east coast" to the Chicago office. To top it off, my wife's only sibling is preparing to be deployed to Afhganistan to help sweep the caves, a 22 year old kid from small town NC, on his 1st tour, at Christmas time. So, I'm now being forced with the decision of being the guy who takes the other child of that family "and only grandchild" away from parents who are also preparing to send their other kid to war, or lose my job and enter a job market that hasn't been this bad in my entire 35 years of life. I don't know if we could sell our home, I don't know how I can afford Chicago for a family of 3 "and 3 cats", I don't know how my Carolina Girl wife can handle Chicago....I just don't know. I'm pinned in a corner at the moment, and growing more and more angry as the hours go by. So, am I going to vote for the guy who wants to put in regulators on Wall Street to prevent this from happening again? You're d*mn right! Am I going to vote for the guy who wants to bring the "other" American pride to the world stage, our minds, our spirit, our friendly nature, instead of anger, intimidation, and war, you're d*mn right I am. I AM the head of the household of that middle class family he's talking about. I am at the brink of busting out into a very successful career, but am now faced with certain disaster eitherway to get it. We will be fine and will ride this out ok, no worries. But what's left of my hair line, is quickly turning gray now. I watch my 5 month old boy sleeping at night, and outside of the overwhelming love I feel for him, is an increasing sense of rage against those who have caused all of this and are forcing me to make the toughest decision of my life...leave my home or lose my job. I'm now 100% certain that McCain didn't drive me away to Obama. No sir...Obama won my vote fair-n'-square. You've got to admit guys....he's an up from the bootstraps kind of guy, the most unlikely candidate to ever be this far, and yet has taken down the most powerful candidates of his party along the way. I know I'll probably get bashed for the following, but there was once a president who did not have a lot of experience either, and sucessfully stared down the Russians in our own backyard, and energized a tired and scared country to put a man on the moon. I'm not saying Obama is this guy, but I am saying that I'm now excited by the prospect of that sense of American spirit returning. McCain....doesn't have that energy anymore. Obama is going to win this election, and he's going to do it because he's worked hard for it over the past two years of campaigning. There's something there about him, and after 2 years, if there weren't something there about him, I think he would've been sniffed out and booted a long time ago. I mean, his name is Barrack Hussien Obama for crying out loud. He's a black guy, with minimal experience, skinny as a rail, and has taken b/s from his competitors ranging from his church to home to his family members to his religion. Yet, here he stands, with the vast majority of the WORLD praying he wins. Yet, here he stands, victorious against the Clinton machine. Yet, here he stands, facing friggin' John McCain for crying out loud, and beating him too. I don't know about you guys, but I like a guy who can take that kind of beating and still walk tall. To me, that sounds exactly like the America needed to take the world stage and start fixing problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX in NC Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 There's no question in my mind that we stand a far better chance of pulling the country out of this mess with Obama at the helm as opposed to McCain. Obama is smarter, far more likely to listen to experienced advice that he surrounds himself with, far more diplomatic, and far less likely to blow his temper and do something incredibly stupid that would have massively negative global consequences. There's no way I would ever vote for McCain/Palin. That being said, I'm still not an Obama supporter. It has nothing to do with his race (I couldn't care less what color he is), his religion (the more we separate church and state from EVERY flavor of religion, the better off our country is as a whole), his background (all of us have skeletons in our closet that we wish we could go back and change), or his origin (we all come from somewhere and we have no control over our heritage).... No, the only concern about Obama that remains fairly strong in my mind is his lack of main stage experience. He's obviously a brilliant man, he's extremely articulate, he's an incredibly powerful public speaker, and he certainly has a leadership presence about him, no question about any of that. But he lacks world-class spotlight experience. Can he overcome that obstacle? Absolutely - he's smart enough to build a presidential team by turning to some of the best minds in the country. Who would have thought six months ago that Warren Buffett could be talked into taking the role as Secretary of the Treasury? Only Obama could make that happen. And folks, that's mighty impressive. It could very well happen. One thing is for sure - if Obama does indeed win this election, on 1/20/09 the U.S. presidential IQ probably comes pretty close to doubling. And that's a mighty good thing for all of us after what we've been through with WPE.... nc211, my heart goes out to you. I know exactly what you're going through. Faced with a similar set of circumstances in 1992, I walked away from 14 years of climbing the ladder towards an executive corporate role rather than move from Raleigh to Ohio. You already know that you're living in one of the top three or four places to be in the U.S. from a business, educational, and quality-of-life aspect. I certainly hope that you don't have to pull up stakes and move to Chicago. I know you'll make the adjustment if you have to, but your small-town N.C. gal wife will freakin' hate it and may come to resent you for it. I certainly hope that you're able to resolve the issue with your new chain-of-command and convince them that you would be more valuable to them in a field position here in Raleigh. Keep us posted - those of us who have come to know you will certainly be pulling for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 nc211, my heart goes out to you. I know exactly what you're going through. Faced with a similar set of circumstances in 1992, I walked away from 14 years of climbing the ladder towards an executive corporate role rather than move from Raleigh to Ohio. You already know that you're living in one of the top three or four places to be in the U.S. from a business, educational, and quality-of-life aspect. I certainly hope that you don't have to pull up stakes and move to Chicago. I know you'll make the adjustment if you have to, but your small-town N.C. gal wife will freakin' hate it and may come to resent you for it. I certainly hope that you're able to resolve the issue with your new chain-of-command and convince them that you would be more valuable to them in a field position here in Raleigh. Keep us posted - those of us who have come to know you will certainly be pulling for you.... Thanks D', I greatly appreciate the kind and warm comments. Now is a challenging time for me, but I'm confident that one door is closing for another "and better" door to open. I just have to find it. I'm doing my research in the area, have found a couple unique and strong potential doors for what I do. Thankfully though, I do have a few months to work with, and I'm with an outfit that is very good to folks like me in a situation like this. It's unfortunate, but I've got one sweet set of dancin' shoes, and know how to use them. I'm a bit rusty, but nonetheless, it'll come back to me once I get going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Congrats to Barak Obama on becoming PRESIDENT ELECT. Good luck in implementing your platform during your upcoming term in office. The Country needs change and their hopes are with you. As difficult a set of circumstances as you encounter coming into office, you have the opportunity to enable the country to come together, and once again move forward. The rest of the world is looking for direction. This is a chance for the USA to take up the challenge and lead the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrome04 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Should be an exciting 4 years. First black prez, that's pretty cool! Never thought I'd see the day. Hopefully he does a great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I did feel bad for John McCain last night, they handled him and ran his campaign so poorly...ruined his last chance to be President. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrome04 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Now that he's elected no one has anything to say!?!?! I thought this thread would be blowing up after the 4th! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 There's nothing else to "debate", it's done. You know us, we only get vocal when we've got crap to argue about. I think we're all in the hangover stage from 2 solid years of listening to these blowhards on the news every night campaigning and saying things to frighten the american public away from one side or the other. I for one, am numb at the moment actually, and preoccupied by the economic b/s storm that's still brewing. Thankfully we've still got the "gas prices" thread to bark about! Although, that one's pretty slow at the moment too. Guess I'm gonna have to fuel up this place with somemore economic forecasting boogie-magic, eh? I'll go post in that thread now... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I'm fascinated to see how many of these talking heads get fired now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I'm fascinated to see how many of these talking heads get fired now lol I AGREE!!! I think one of the problems with the economy, is the confidence of the players, which has been beaten down so much for so long with so much negative stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 They hired all these people and started all these shows to report on the election. If you watch MSNBC, Rachel Maddow is one. She's on right after Countdown with Keith Olbermann and its basically the same show as Olbermann, same topics, etc. Olbermann and Chris Matthews are safe because they've been on forever, but all these new "pundits" are gonna get creamed lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobyfreddel Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I did feel bad for John McCain last night, they handled him and ran his campaign so poorly...ruined his last chance to be President. I agree with you that unfortunately for him, his people did run a poor campaign and they got more caught up with trying the Rovian tactics which had worked for the Republicans the previous two campaigns. When I heard his concession speech, I too started to feel bad for him. That was the "real" John McCain. Like many others have said, I too would have voted for him over Al Gore had he gotten the Republican nod back in 2000. But you know what, I stopped feeling bad for him very quickly. I am not able to give him a pass on what he and his campaign did and said over the last few months when they decided to take it 100% negative and primarily personal attacks. They have divided and damaged the country in addition to the division/damage that was already done by the previous administration. I'm positive that John McCain knows that the America hating/terrorist/socialist/experience-lacking red herrings were BS, but he let his ambition to be president (and I'm sure, a decent amount of pressure from his campaign managers) get in the way. I know he loves this country and he obviously believed that he was the best candidate for president. He is an American hero and no one can take that away from him. Unfortunately it seems as though he may have started believing the ends justify the means. I believe that when he went on and on about Ayers, socialism, etc, he was simply using them as issues to enrage his supporters and he personally didn't necessarily believe them himself but was going to do whatever he wanted to get votes. His concession speech somewhat confirmed that for me. It may have gotten him some votes, it did not get him the presidency. Ultimately, the saddest thing is that while IMO he doesn't believe it himself, he is the one that has caused (i.e. robo calls, his and Sarah Palin's comments at virtually every rally) more division in this country. An unfortunately large portion of the American population will believe that in January, there will be a terrorist/Muslim/socialist sitting in the White House. Please keep in mind almost one out of every four Texans believe that Obama is a Muslim. LINK A little while ago, I had the honor of calling Senator Barack Obama to congratulate him.(BOOING) ... I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him, but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better country than we inherited. He gave a very gracious concession speech and I know he believes in the words he spoke. The thing is, after drumming it into his supporters heads for months, many actually believe the negative ads and smears. Unfortunately those beliefs cannot be turned off like a light switch. The booing by the audience attested to that. It was a very dangerous thing that he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobyfreddel Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And the finger pointing has started LINK... Now that the defeated team of Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have gone their separate ways, the knives are out and Palin is the one who is getting filleted. Revelations from anonymous critics from within the McCain-Palin campaign suggest a number of complaints about the Alaskan governor: -Fox News reports that Palin didn't know Africa was a continent and did not know the member nations of the North American Free Trade Agreement -- the United States, Mexico and Canada -- when she was picked for vice president. -The New York Times reports that McCain aides were outraged when Palin staffers scheduled her to speak with French President Nicholas Sarkozy, a conversation that turned out to be a radio station prank. -Newsweek reports that Palin spent far more than the previously reported $150,000 on clothes for herself and her family. -Several publications say she irked the McCain campaign by asking to make her own concession speech on election night. The tension is likely to continue or get worse. Lawyers for the Republican National Committee are heading to Alaska to try to account for all the money that was spent on clothing, jewelry and luggage, according to The New York Times. This is the person that some people want to run in 2012. I think the Republican party is already making sure this doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amf1932 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 O.K. Not that anyone gives a damn about what I think about the great issues of the day, but here anyway is my news junkie analysis of the campaign and the election, and why it turned out the way it did. I’ve done a lot of thinking about this last year or two, which seems a lot longer than that, and thought I would put my conclusions out for your consideration and comments. (Besides, I like to bloviate.) John McCain started with a tremendous liability, that of being the Republican standard bearer at a time when the current administration’s popularity was just about as low as it could go. His opponents jumped all over his self professed support of George Bush, and although in many ways he was trying to separate himself from many of Bush’s policies, he never did make a significant break with Bush’s economic and foreign policies. The fact that Bush personally probably had little to do with the meltdown didn’t mean much, as people were economically scared, and the Democrat’s effort to paint McCain with Bush’s colors resonated with those who believe that the administration of the moment is responsible for anything good and anything bad that happens. Coupled with the economic burden he had to bear, whether legitimate or not, was a war which has become very unpopular among a majority of Americans. John McCain, admirably true to his principles, refused to deviate from what he thought was right, even if those views were not that of a majority of Americans. That hurt him. His selection of Sarah Palin, according to just about all relevant polls, also hurt him. Her selection did enormously energize the traditional Republican base, made up of strong social conservatives and evangelicals. But those people were going to vote for him anyway. The large attendance and exuberance at Palin rallies notwithstanding, Palin only seemed to attract to McCain, besides those already in his camp, a number of disaffected conservatives who were grumbling about McCain because of his lack of real partisan conservative credentials, and, as before, I believe that at the end they would have also voted for McCain anyway because voting for anyone as liberal as Barrack Obama would have been anathema to them. Remember, the disaffected Republicans were so because they didn’t think that McCain was conservative enough. Conventional wisdom is that besides trying to solidify the traditional conservative base, the Palin selection was also intended to attract the millions of women who had voted for Hillary Clinton, thinking that it was Hillary’s gender rather than her politics that had engendered her support. A significant number of Hillary supporters, though, never did switch to the McCain/Palin ticket. After the initial burst of energy due to the Palin selection, and after a couple of unfortunate interviews with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric, polls consistently showed that Palin’s influence was actually negative, i.e. she was repelling more voters than she was attracting. Thus, at this juncture in the campaign, John McCain, still ahead in the polls, found that his campaign had provided a great deal of energy to people who were in his camp to begin with, and overtures to centrist Democrats and independents were mostly ineffective. Then came the fiscal meltdown. Many pundits have opined that it would have been extraordinarily difficult for anyone carrying the banner of the party in executive power with an enormously unpopular President, to win an election in such difficult times. Barrack Obama’s campaign kept pounding home the alleged connection between McCain and Bush, and that did seem to resonate with voters. People did want a change in the way Washington was doing business, but McCain never did articulate any significantly new economic policies that would differ from George Bush’s. His intent to continue Bush’s tax policy was heavily criticized by Obama, and those who were already predisposed to vote for the Democrat thus remained in the Obama tent and McCain was unable to attract very many of them. The expressed social policies of each candidate was somewhat of a wash, although there remains a majority of Americans opposed to the repeal of Roe v. Wade. While social conservatives felt strongly reassured by McCain’s strong anti-choice stance, and that of his strongly conservative running mate, remember that these are people who almost surely would have voted for John McCain anyway. So in this area, McCain was unable to attract enough moderate Democrats and independents to his side. (I don’t believe that there was ever any thought by the McCain camp that they would be able to gain the support of strongly left leaning liberals.) Another important issue was the war in Iraq. One thinks of an analogous situation faced by Lyndon Johnson. At a time when he would have been the obvious candidate for a second term, the country was vociferously tired of the war in Vietnam. Then, as now, this “war fatigue” affected the electorate and Johnson, consummate politician that he was, sensed that there was no way he would be able to overcome that great weight, and he declined to run. John McCain had similar baggage. If questioned about them individually, most Americans would have said they agreed most of McCain’s positions at the time he made them. Most Americans were in favor of the war at the beginning, as was McCain. Most Americans later were extremely disaffected by the way the war was being prosecuted, as was John McCain. Most Americans also approved of the successes of the Iraqi surge, something strongly pressed by John McCain. But during the time of the campaign, most, or certainly a great many Americans had been convinced that the war was wrong from its inception, and that a plan to end it needed to be initiated. Obama pounded that message home at every occasion (at least until the financial crisis) and his message was accepted by more people than accepted McCain’s views. As was the case with most issues, McCain, probably unfairly, was associated in the minds of millions of voters with a war with which they were now vehemently against. So John McCain and Sarah Palin were on the back side of the power curve, so to speak. They were associated with the party of a very unpopular President, held the social views of a minority of the population, were associated with an unpopular war, and were struggling with an economic disaster which for good reason or not, was being blamed by many on the incumbent party. The only way to overcome all of that would be by waging an outstanding campaign. Barrack Obama was able to put together what has been recognized by most knowledgeable observers as perhaps the most effective campaign structure in the country’s history. In most areas he had perhaps three times the number of paid campaign workers and volunteers than did John McCain. In some important venues, where the McCain campaign had two or three campaign headquarters, Obama had thirty. All this, of course, because Obama had been able to raise a huge amount of money and could afford it. And if the reports from campaign professionals from both sides can be believed, Obama’s campaign was also far more disciplined, remaining always on message and avoiding virtually any gaffes. Barrack Obama’s rhetorical skills are well known, and he was apparently able to overcome the great deficit he had in experience, compared to McCain, with the force of his words. Successful leaders always have had the ability to arouse and excite their constituents, and I don’t think that anyone would argue that Obama’s speechmaking ability was and is on a level with some of the greatest orators in our history. The fact that Obama was even able to mount a campaign initially with not much more capital than that of his rousing convention speech from 2004 is evidence in and of itself. So John McCain, facing an uphill battle, had the misfortune to have to compete with such an effective and emotion eliciting speaker. It wasn’t much of a contest as John McCain himself alluded to in the latter stages of the campaign. Finally, it was the nature of the campaigning itself. Perhaps in an attempt to deflect some of the effect of Obama’s oratory, the McCain campaign switched to almost 100% continuous negative attack ads. That kind of campaigning is sometimes effective as was illustrated by the Bush campaigns, particularly the one in 2004. But it didn’t seem to hit a nerve in 2008. The difference in energy late in the campaigns, between McCain’s and Obama’s events was telling. Much of John McCain’s (and Sarah Palin’s) comments against Obama’s positions resulted in boos and jeering, while Obama’s positive and upbeat speeches resulted in great cheering. I think that energy created a reservoir of excited good will that bode well at the polls. Remember, these comments are not meant to be critical, but merely an observation of two kinds of campaigning, both of which can be and have been successful at different times and in different campaigns. Perhaps, in these times when people generally are nervous about the economy and uncertain about the wisdom of our policies in the war in Iraq and against terrorism, this was the time for upbeat enthusiasm rather than critical statements by the politicians. I argue that it was, and that the turn toward negative campaigning by McCain in the last month or two of his campaign, and the continually upbeat tenor of Obama’s campaign resonated with the voters. Whether any Republican would have been able to win in these times, with such an inordinately unpopular incumbent, is an interesting question. But the combination of events over which he had no control, an arguably less than optimum choice of a running mate, and a less effective campaign strategy doomed John McCain’s efforts. 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RX in NC Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Outstanding assessment that covers the vast majority of the bases, amf1932.... Your last paragraph sums up the truth in a nutshell. No Republican candidate could have won this election - they all would have to wear the Bush disaster like a cheap suit. That reality even trickled down to our state and contributed mightily in getting the once-untouchable Senator Elizabeth Dole dumped out of office (but she absolutely deserved what she got). Toss in the fact that the Obama campaign was a masterpiece that will be studied in political science classes for decades to come and not even the second coming of Abraham Lincoln would have been able to hold back the floodgates that we all could sense were opening for Obama over the course of the last two months of the campaign.... McCain indeed shot himself in the head by going negative as well as by making a world-class bonehead decision when he picked Palin. I'm sure he deeply regrets both of those moves now. But he also knows that he was up against a building groundswell of national yearning for complete regime change and he was powerless to stop it.... Now the real work begins. I don't envy what Team Obama will be faced with come January 20th. This country is in trouble in so many ways and we'd all be better off if we could go ahead and evict Bush/Cheney now so the next wave of folks could get an early start. The Republican Party is in shambles, they full well know it, and it will be interesting to see what they decide to do in an effort to begin the restoration process.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Nice job amf in distilling two years of contemplation into a few paragraphs. It remains to be seen how hard an impatient President Elect pushes a lame duck House and Executive into moving ahead with some of his agenda before his inauguration. These may be an interesting two months ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Now the real work begins. I don't envy what Team Obama will be faced with come January 20th. This country is in trouble in so many ways and we'd all be better off if we could go ahead and evict Bush/Cheney now so the next wave of folks could get an early start. The Republican Party is in shambles, they full well know it, and it will be interesting to see what they decide to do in an effort to begin the restoration process.... You know, my thinking is, when you're at the bottom, there is only one way to go. In the past, as I'm sure you'll probably agree RX, when the stink hit the fan, it usually took one or two sectors with it. In this situation, which I can say is the most severe in my life time, it seems to be impacting all sectors. There doesn't seem to be a pocket to hide in to ride it out. A few weeks ago, I thought commercial real estate would be the pocket, but now, I'm starting to agree with the reports that it's the next shoe to drop in this mess. Unlike the dot.com tank 8 years ago, and the residential housing meltdown now, CRE underwriting fundamentals have maintained strong principles. But, I think it's going to get wacked next year too. My company has come back with a better offer for us to go to Chicago, and we've decided to take it. Honestly, it's the only rock I can find to hide under until this blows over, and keep moving up in the business. Very gut-wrenching decision, but we've got to do it. The state of this economy and the struggles it is causing people, hit me square between the eyes today. While on the way back from the local computer store earlier today with my wife and son, I received a heartbreaking phone call from my brother in KC. A dear family friend, father of 3 little girls, and former asset manager of my dad's old company, was discovered yesterday by his wife slumped over their family computer dead. He was only 39, was working on his resume, and suffered a massive heart attack. They don't make men like that anymore, he was a true man of the upmost character and strength. It's 12:45am right now as I type this. I'm sitting here with the baby monitor to my left, and my 5th beer to my right. And as I sit here, my heart is simply breaking for my friend's family, and fellow countrymen. So I say this about what Obama is facing: A success wouldn't be a recovery, but simply the ability to stop this mess. Level the playing field and make yesterday's closing bell the bottom. That would be a sucess in my book. I swear on everything I stand for in this life, the FBI better put some of those CEO's from Wall Street in jail for this. I don't think they're completely to blame for the underlying trigger of this. But they are to blame for the severity of it. The global reach of it, and the wide spectrum of casualties it's going to take with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Just remember one thing if taxes are raised we will go into a deep depression. That is what happened after the crash of 1929 and we may be doomed for a repeat. My faith in this government democrat or republican is at a all time low. Fiscal conservative are hard to find inside the beltway, if they exist at all. Our wonderful government seems to think that John Q Public is an infinite resourse of tax revenue with no repercussions. God Bless America.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX in NC Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 nc211, My sympathies on the loss of your family friend. I really feel for those three little girls left behind with no dad.... On another subject, when do you have to move to Chicago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Thanks amigo. I tell ya', the hits just keep on coming sometimes. You know the drill, we all know the drill. Everyone hits those bumpy parts of the road where it seems to be coming from all sides, then it passes. We're probably going to Chicago in March. The office isn't scheduled to close until Feb, so we've got time to enjoy the holidays, put the house on the market "although the company might buy it from me instead", and avoid Chicago for at least this winter. At the end of the day, as the emotion of this challenge fades and we're able to think more clearly about the path and opportunities ahead "thankful to just have them", the sting of this decision is fading. We're actually starting to get a little excited about the prospect of seeing a few things in life. If we have to do this, now would be the time to do it, as our son is only 6 months old. So we've got a few years before his personality starts to be formed by his environment. Which hopefully should be enough time for this economy to recover, the opportunities to start coming back, and we can get back to the part of the country that we love...the southeast. Eitherway, we're going to lose the house. We either replace it with a nicer one, but in a distant location. Or we have to sell it because we'll not beable to afford it. Chicago lets my wife stay home with our son, puts considerable more money in our pocket, and lets me hide under a rock from the economy. Plus, continue building on my experience, finally pick up my MBA, and keep moving up towards the top of the top of what I do for a living. But, have to leave NC for it. Or, we pass on the offer, and I go into the unemployment sector with the hundreds of thousands of others coming from the banking communities and Wall Street "even though I don't do what they do". So, at that angle of approach, it's really a no-brainer for us. Plus, I've got enough frequent flyer miles for my wife and son to come home at least once a month for the next 2 years. Which is a must for me! Everyone is going to get a blackberry, and everyone is going to get a webcam. So we'll beable to ease the distance a little via technology as well. I'm just not looking forward to the winters, and riding the train into the office everyday. But, it beats the alternative. They're throwing 6 figures at us to do this now, which is pretty much impossible to pass up. We've been in the upper end of the 5 figure range here. A 43% increase in income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Before you make any agreements in terms of compensation, be sure to check the difference in the cost of living between Raleigh and Chicago. I don't know what it is, but you should insist on an increase in your quality of living. I have a calculator somewhere that takes what your income is in one area and translates it into the income you'd need to have the same buying power somewhere else. I'll post it. Other than that I agree with you, thats what I'd do too... Keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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