Need Some Advice, New Rx300 Purchase Planned Possibly!

[cfiiman]

Ok, some of you may be aware of my last purchase, a 00 RX300, 133K miles, really really nice, but found out it had some body work and the "seller" knew and said it didn't, at least I am pretty sure, so I took it back. I have found another one, it is an 02, Black 87K miles. It is really nice only it has been vandalized (at the dealership) it has been keyed in 2 places each about 15" long or so, and a dent in the back passanger 1/4 panel I am assuming from a kick to it or something (I hate vandals and theives). They sent the car to auction today and I actually was there, I looked at the car and was going to bid on it. It was really nice although I like white better, but anyway I like the mileage best. Anyway at the auction the high bid was only 7700.00 which I thought was a steal, and since I knew the dealership I was pretty sure they would not accept that bid so I called them on my way home. They said I was correct and that they would not accept that and it would be sent to another auction. I told them I was interested and they have arranged for me to look at the car privately on their lot tomorrow afternoon. They have told me they only want what they have in it, not a penny more (yeah right). The told me that was 11,600. Now I would say for a car that didn't need any paint work that would be a good deal from what I have seen, but for this one with the damage I am unsure. I also do not know if they want tax/fees/liscensing on top of that (probably do) which would make it more like 12,500 which there is no way in hell I'm going to do b/c I know the paint work will be a couple grand at least. Anyway I wanted to get your all's thoughts on it. What would be a fair price, considering it only brought 7700 at auction and that it needs cosmetics? Any chance you think they would take less than 10K out the door? Is that even fair? I await your responses, thanks!

Jason

[RX in NC]

Previous posts from multiple members offering advice to you on your original thread have already answered these questions for you. Namely, if you don't have access to the maintenance history you're just rolling the dice and the deck is stacked against you. There's really not much more any of us can say to you. It's "buyer beware"....

[cfiiman]

Sorry, some clarification is needed I guess, I was assuming that the car has a good history/service record, so with that end mind I am asking about price alone, what is fair. In reponse to your reply though, I will say, from what I have read, service history does not make a difference, I mean isn't that what you and "lenore" are complaining about? That you have done everything and still had problems? If so I'm not sure why you think that is very important, but nonetheless, assume for this thread it is ok. Thanks,

Jason

[RX in NC]

When I say "maintenance history", I'm not referring to just the transmission maintenance. I'm referring to the entire vehicle's maintenance history. Since I cannot physically lay my hands and eyes on your potential purchase, I cannot help you other than to say, once again, "buyer beware".

With all of the uncertainty expressed in your posts, you may want to consider finding yourself a trustworthy local mechanic to assist you in finding your next vehicle. We can't offer reliable advice to you through an internet forum when we can't be there to inspect the vehicle for ourselves.

And by the way, assuming that the vehicle has been properly maintained throughout its lifespan when you don't have access to any of the records to prove it is a very dangerous assumption indeed....

[cfiiman]

Point taken, the car has a clean carfax showing some services at Lexus dealer locally, I am looking into the maintenance from the dealer. I still feel someone should be able to give me a "ballpark" as to what I would pay, yes, assuming the car is taken care of which I believe it has been.

[LexKid630]

i'd say you're in a better position it being a 2002 with that low mileage. Check the tranny fluid, make sure it's nice and pink.

There haven't been any complaints of the tranny failure in an 02-03 that i have heard of.

[cfiiman]

Lexkid, thanks for that info! Can anyone confirm this? (not that I don't believe you, just making sure no one else might think differently) If that is the case, then maybe I should plan on giving a little more for this, I don't know, the body work it will need might be somewhat expensive, as the jerks who keyed it managed to hit 4 panels, (both 1/4's and both doors). Can anyone give me what would be a high-low range on an all cash deal on this suv?

[LexKid630]

Well usually people post here on this forum when their transmission fails, and they usually post their year etc. And i've yet to see an 02-03. It may just be because the 02's and 03's just aren't old enough to fail, but no one's posted their failures on this forum for any 02-03 rx300 awd or fwd.

It's probably going to cost around $3k to have the dents repaired and whatever body panels repainted etc. If i were you, id get the car and take out a claim with insurance, pay your deductible (assuming it's $250 or $500) if you have this feature with your company, and have the car totally re-painted. Claim it was vandalized, your rates shouldn't go up (can someone confirm?).

do a kkb search for the specs on the car and put in poor condition. Also check the prices in your local newspaper and autotrader.com in your area. Prices are different in all locations.

But as for as an 02-03 RX300 being problematic, although no one can 100% confirm the tranny issue was fixed for these model years, there's yet to be a failure reported on this forum.

(doesn't mean someone in east Guam had it fail and didn't post here... just means no one's informed us via this lexus forum).

[cfiiman]

ok, thanks. Well here is where I am, the are at 12K OTD, I am at 10K OTD, salesman told me he would work on it and call me tomorrow. This car is going to the auction if I don't buy it (they say) and it already was at a local one like I said and brought 7700. I think I'm being fair at 10K with the damage to the body, but they probably think otherwise. In my area, you can get a nice one with 70-100K miles on it for about 10-16 depending on what dealer, year and miles. Lets put it this way, I would say this vehicle, if the body was nice all the way around it would be a 15K car. But I know I can not have the paint done right for less then 5K if it was a total repaint so that it what I am basing my offer on, as the ones that they ask 15K for are almost perfect except for a small scratch or nick here and there

[mikey00]

I do remember seeing 2002 RX transmission failures. I can't remember if it was here or over at CL but they do fail. I think you see the older ones failing more due to the higher mileage but the 02s will catch up. Also check NHTSA site for reported failures. Something else you may want to consider, Lexus Black RXs do not have clear coat on them, as do the other colors, and are very difficult to keep looking good. As long as you like a black car and don't mind working on it to keep it looking good, you will be happy. But if you are someone who prefers a white RX, this is just something to consider.

[artbuc]

It's probably going to cost around $3k to have the dents repaired and whatever body panels repainted etc. If i were you, id get the car and take out a claim with insurance, pay your deductible (assuming it's $250 or $500) if you have this feature with your company, and have the car totally re-painted. Claim it was vandalized, your rates shouldn't go up (can someone confirm?).

I know I should keep my mouth shut, but....

cfiiman's car buying insecurities and persistent expectation that someone on an Internet board can tell him what to pay for a car is moving from the sublime to the ridiculous. LexKid360's recommendation to perpetrate insurance fraud is ridiculous and has no place on this board.

[mccldwll]

It's probably going to cost around $3k to have the dents repaired and whatever body panels repainted etc. If i were you, id get the car and take out a claim with insurance, pay your deductible (assuming it's $250 or $500) if you have this feature with your company, and have the car totally re-painted. Claim it was vandalized, your rates shouldn't go up (can someone confirm?).

I know I should keep my mouth shut, but....

cfiiman's car buying insecurities and persistent expectation that someone on an Internet board can tell him what to pay for a car is moving from the sublime to the ridiculous. LexKid360's recommendation to perpetrate insurance fraud is ridiculous and has no place on this board.

Hmmmmm. I assumed the insurance fraud suggestion was tongue in cheek response to trolling since the questions had gotten so ridiculous. "Are we there yet?"

[cfiiman]

It's probably going to cost around $3k to have the dents repaired and whatever body panels repainted etc. If i were you, id get the car and take out a claim with insurance, pay your deductible (assuming it's $250 or $500) if you have this feature with your company, and have the car totally re-painted. Claim it was vandalized, your rates shouldn't go up (can someone confirm?).

I know I should keep my mouth shut, but....

cfiiman's car buying insecurities and persistent expectation that someone on an Internet board can tell him what to pay for a car is moving from the sublime to the ridiculous. LexKid360's recommendation to perpetrate insurance fraud is ridiculous and has no place on this board.

I didn't want to say anything but I felt the same way, I would NEVER even consider that. And to you Mccldwll, geez all I was asking for was what you all might think is fair as far as negotiating goes since you all are already RX owners, but since I don't seem to be getting any help at all on that without being told I have to know every tiny detail about the car's history (impossible btw) and have an expert at Lexus engineering division systematically take the car apart into individual pieces and inspect it before we come up with a fair number, and if I don't do all this, my questions are "getting so ridiculous" just do not worry about it, sorry I asked And that is hillarious you think I'm a troller b/c I am asking about price on an rx, what a joke.

[artbuc]

It's probably going to cost around $3k to have the dents repaired and whatever body panels repainted etc. If i were you, id get the car and take out a claim with insurance, pay your deductible (assuming it's $250 or $500) if you have this feature with your company, and have the car totally re-painted. Claim it was vandalized, your rates shouldn't go up (can someone confirm?).

I know I should keep my mouth shut, but....

cfiiman's car buying insecurities and persistent expectation that someone on an Internet board can tell him what to pay for a car is moving from the sublime to the ridiculous. LexKid360's recommendation to perpetrate insurance fraud is ridiculous and has no place on this board.

Hmmmmm. I assumed the insurance fraud suggestion was tongue in cheek response to trolling since the questions had gotten so ridiculous. "Are we there yet?"

If it was tongue-in-cheek, I offer my sincere apology to LexKid. I sometimes use sarcasm which other people don't get it at all. Now I feel a little silly if I am the one who didn't pick-up on the sarcasm. Oh well, live and learn.

[sktn77a]

I think your offer of 10k OTD is very fair, given the body damage and the state of the SUV/gas market right now, They won't get more than that at auction (they'll be lucky to get what the were offered last time round - 7-8k). Stick to your guns and see what happens.

[mikey00]

ok, thanks. Well here is where I am, the are at 12K OTD, I am at 10K OTD, salesman told me he would work on it and call me tomorrow. This car is going to the auction if I don't buy it (they say) and it already was at a local one like I said and brought 7700. I think I'm being fair at 10K with the damage to the body, but they probably think otherwise. In my area, you can get a nice one with 70-100K miles on it for about 10-16 depending on what dealer, year and miles. Lets put it this way, I would say this vehicle, if the body was nice all the way around it would be a 15K car. But I know I can not have the paint done right for less then 5K if it was a total repaint so that it what I am basing my offer on, as the ones that they ask 15K for are almost perfect except for a small scratch or nick here and there

Lets say you get it for 10K OTD, which is unlikely due to negotiation process. Then you spend 5K+ for body work and paint, so it now looks like the 15K RXs you are referring to. Why not just buy one of the 15K RXs, you are seeing. You will end up with a better car and none of the frustrations of having the work done. Now if it were 8K OTD, that would be a different story.

[cfiiman]

Thanks to both of you for the only decent replies to the question I actually asked. Mikey, I see exactly where you are coming from and I am thinking that probably is the way to go, I was thinking maybe it wouldn't cost exactly that much to fix is all so it would be a good deal, at 10K I say it is fair, 12, no way, and I also agree with you Sktn, I doubt they will get that much at auction anywhere. I guess what I have run into (someone who works in the industry and is a friend told me) that a dealership would rather take less for it at an auction then to actually sell it to someone for less than what "they think" they can squeeze out of them, really is too bad they are like that, but then again that is only why I have only bought 1 car in my life at a dealer and it was a Corvette I couldn't get in the private market at the time exactly the way I wanted. Thanks again you two for your replies.

[LexKid630]

My suggestion of using insurance wasn't sarcasm at all.

If you saw my insurance rates, you would understand why i don't feel bad for making such claims.

My insurance company's profits just by having my family as a customer, compared to how much i've milked them would be 1,000,000:1

[code58]

I think your offer of 10k OTD is very fair, given the body damage and the state of the SUV/gas market right now, They won't get more than that at auction (they'll be lucky to get what the were offered last time round - 7-8k). Stick to your guns and see what happens.

I absolutely agree, I think you have been more than generous to offer them 10k- not absolutely sure that should be OTD. Depends on what tax, license and other costs in Ky. are. I disagree with the poster that said that black on an RX was not clear coated. I spent a lot of years in body work and can tell you for a fact that it's been many years since there was ANYTHING that was not clear coated- even the white trucks and cheap economy cars. I personally don't care for black (had 1 black truck and decided no more black vehicles for me), they're just too hard to keep looking nice, to say nothing of being HOT in the summer.

[code58]

I think your offer of 10k OTD is very fair, given the body damage and the state of the SUV/gas market right now, They won't get more than that at auction (they'll be lucky to get what the were offered last time round - 7-8k). Stick to your guns and see what happens.

I absolutely agree, I think you have been more than generous to offer them 10k- not absolutely sure that should be OTD. Depends on what tax, license and other costs in Ky. are. I disagree with the poster that said that black on an RX was not clear coated. I spent a lot of years in body work and can tell you for a fact that it's been many years since there was ANYTHING that was not clear coated- even the white trucks and cheap economy cars. I personally don't care for black (had 1 black truck and decided no more black vehicles for me), they're just too hard to keep looking nice, to say nothing of being HOT in the summer.

Also, I don't think you will find as many trans. problems with the later RX's. Don't know what year they went to "drive by wire", but once they did they were able to do a lot of tricks through the computer that are subtle enough you don't realize they are even taking place. They let off of the throttle, !Removed! the timing and some other things that take the pressure off the transmission when it shifts. It is all subtle enough you don't know it's happening, but is enough to help the trans. They couldn't do those things (probably didn't know they needed to yet on the early years of the RX) with the cable throttle. I think that may have been in place by '02. My wife's '02 Camry has "drive by wire"- no throttle cable.

[code58]

Thanks to both of you for the only decent replies to the question I actually asked. Mikey, I see exactly where you are coming from and I am thinking that probably is the way to go, I was thinking maybe it wouldn't cost exactly that much to fix is all so it would be a good deal, at 10K I say it is fair, 12, no way, and I also agree with you Sktn, I doubt they will get that much at auction anywhere. I guess what I have run into (someone who works in the industry and is a friend told me) that a dealership would rather take less for it at an auction then to actually sell it to someone for less than what "they think" they can squeeze out of them, really is too bad they are like that, but then again that is only why I have only bought 1 car in my life at a dealer and it was a Corvette I couldn't get in the private market at the time exactly the way I wanted. Thanks again you two for your replies.

That is absolutely true about a dealer taking less at auction (considerably less) than they are willing to sell it to you for. It has to do with "keeping the market up". They're still in business and if they sell at anything even close to auction, they have to live with what that has done to the local market, even if only in a minor way. The local dealers (at least a few of them) are selling new pickups for 50% of retail. A $30k pickup for $15k because they are so loaded with them and they aren't selling. Do you think they are EVER going to be able to restore a RETAIL price market? Probably not! This is an extreme example but it is somewhat why they won't sell to you even a distressed vehicle like the RX that cfiiman is looking at for anything close to what it brings at auction. My bet is that they are not likely to get much more than what has already been bid at auction no matter how many times they run it and that they also aren't likely to come down much in price either.

[artbuc]

My suggestion of using insurance wasn't sarcasm at all.

If you saw my insurance rates, you would understand why i don't feel bad for making such claims.

My insurance company's profits just by having my family as a customer, compared to how much i've milked them would be 1,000,000:1

I've thought about this and have come around to your point of view. In fact, last night I stole $50 worth of gas from an Exxon station. They make way too much profit and it's time to start getting even.

[mikey00]

I disagree with the poster that said that black on an RX was not clear coated. I spent a lot of years in body work and can tell you for a fact that it's been many years since there was ANYTHING that was not clear coated- even the white trucks and cheap economy cars. I personally don't care for black (had 1 black truck and decided no more black vehicles for me), they're just too hard to keep looking nice, to say nothing of being HOT in the summer.

"it's been many years since there was ANYTHING that was not clear coated" is a generalization that is close to 100% true. However, Lexus does not clear coat all it's blacks along with some of the other colors. That's how they get that Lexus deep black look. This was common knowledge a few years back and discussed quite often over at CL.

Just Google "lexus black no clear coat". You should find more than enough to convince yourself.

[cfiiman]

So if it is not clear coated, is it just enamel or is there something else? Thanks everyone for there replies.

[mikey00]

So if it is not clear coated, is it just enamel or is there something else? Thanks everyone for there replies.

As best as I can remember it's just a good coat of the black paint minus the clear. This was discussed quite a bit back when the RX 300s were new. A lot of people were complaining about the lousy free car wash they got whenever they went in for warranty work. It turned out the most of the complainers had black RXs. The Black without the clear certainly looks good but it is just more prone to swirl marks, streaks, water spots, etc.