CanadaCraig Posted December 16, 2003 Posted December 16, 2003 Hi Guys!! :) Not sure how nice your LS really is? Drive something else!! My mom owns a 2002 Acura TL Type S. I drove my mom's car last night for an hour or so. [as I often do when 'mom' comes to visit] A very nice car. And good looking - too. The Eternal Blue paint complements the 'Ivory' [or 'tan' or whatever they'll calling it these days] interior. The very first thing I noticed was the gear selector. Compared to the solid-as-a-rock LS gear selector - the TL felt like a piece of crap. [no kidding - and no nicer way to put it] The steering also felt horrible. Sure - I got used to it as the drive went on - but not having driven a FWD car for a few months - I couldn't believe how obvious the torque steer was. The LS's steering is so much nicer. The TL is a faster car - no doubt about it - but as far as I could tell - that is its' ONLY advantage. And considering the fact that the TL is only 4" shorter and about 2" narrower - it felt MUCH smaller. Did I tell my mom this? No!! But after that hour in the TL - I appreciated my LS even more. Craig!! :)
VMF Posted December 16, 2003 Posted December 16, 2003 my boss has a regular TL and its not faster then LS, type S prolly a lil faster and as to the space it feels smaller then my legend! i really think legend was the best acura model even but even legend cant compare to LS. my legend is on stick and has a rebuilt engine and transmission and every part of the car is in the top shape,but even in this shape it cant compare to LS.:) i also drove my GFs moms 2003 v6 camry her 2004 accord and guys... its like night and day. i felt so happy went i got back to my car and was able to press accelerator and feel the acceleration and hear the rev of my V8. i dont think i will be able to drive anything else from now on:)
Lexus. Posted December 16, 2003 Posted December 16, 2003 The Acura is just not in the same league as the Lexus. Age and miles doesnt change the fact that the Lexus was and is one heck of a nice car, built like a tank with outstanding quality and craftsmanship, and that it had a sticker price over $60000 in todays money. VMF: keep driving Lexus v-8 till the day you hit the grave, even if you have to keep buying used ones, I know I am ! I just hope they dont become like the German cars - start losing quality and become unreliable after they have been firmly established - like the Merc. They used to make absolutley the best cars in the 70s and 80s, now its just a name, horribly complex and expensive to fix
99lsguy Posted December 16, 2003 Posted December 16, 2003 Craig, Before I got my LS, I test drove and 02/03 TL. Nice car but VERY CRAMPED! It is much louder too. Your are correct....It is not EVEN IN THE LEAGUE OF THE LS. I guess I'm stuck for Life
jdmparts_guru Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 The Acura TL are in a completely different class then the LS. The Acura is based on the Honda Accord platform (l think the European version ;) ) and is more IS300 class, in terms of pricing and target group. Even the legend is not considered as LS class, but is positioned a bit lower (Legend is more like the Audi A6 or Lexus GS), and the Legend only has a V6, whereas the LS has a V8.
SW03ES Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 The Acura isn't up to par with Lexus in general, let alone the LS. I seriously looked at it, but next to the ES and the LS it was like night and day.
90LS400Lexus Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 my boss has a regular TL and its not faster then LS, type S prolly a lil faster and as to the space it feels smaller then my legend! i really think legend was the best acura model even but even legend cant compare to LS. my legend is on stick and has a rebuilt engine and transmission and every part of the car is in the top shape,but even in this shape it cant compare to LS.:) i also drove my GFs moms 2003 v6 camry her 2004 accord and guys... its like night and day. i felt so happy went i got back to my car and was able to press accelerator and feel the acceleration and hear the rev of my V8. i dont think i will be able to drive anything else from now on:) Of the 2003 Camry V6 and the 2004 Accord, which of those did you think is the better, higher quality car? -------------- Shouldn't the 96-04 LS400/LS430 be compared to the 96-04 Acura 3.5 RL (Acura's flagship sedan) , rather than the smaller, mid-sized Acura TL? The TL is more like the size of a ES, or GS. Still the RL, is a V6 FWD car.
SW03ES Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 The RL is a better comparison vehicle to the ES than the LS.
Lexus. Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 I used to work at Acura dealership in Highlands Ranch, CO, I can tell you RLs are nice cars, but still lags behind the LS. Six cylinder just is not going to have the silky, creamy, buttery smooth response of a V-8. But its $10000 cheaper than bottom end LS ($55k), comes with a navigation system, and acura offers almost no options exc. dealer accesories.
SW03ES Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 Oh its a very nice car, I just agree its not up to par with the LS. With the discounts and deals they run on them I shopped it next to my ES300, still picked the Lexus.
VMF Posted December 17, 2003 Posted December 17, 2003 my brothers friend has 2001 RL and when he drove he he told me himself that RL is no match for LS. he got the car for 25. and when he asked about 2000 Ls they told him it would cost hi 30-35K with 50k mileage while his RL has only 15k
CanadaCraig Posted December 18, 2003 Author Posted December 18, 2003 Poor [stupid?] Acura. They had the Japanese Luxury car market [in N.A.] all to themselves. Before Lexus - Acura was #1. No other car company could touch it. [J.D. Power wise] But... they know best [so they thought] and stuck with FWD. Sure - for all models beneath the 'flagship' - that's fine. But to be thought of as an equal of the best - you have be LIKE the best. [whether or not that goes against 'your' philosphy of how to build a car] I also think it was a big mistake for Acura to drop the 'Legend' name. 'RL'. What kind of a name is that? Why not get rid of the 'Accord' name. Call it the TP or the BS. [or whatever] Why indeed. Because people LIKE names. The name 'Legend' meant something. People were proud to own a 'Legend'. I bet - IF the 'RL' was still called the 'Legend' it would be a far more successful car. [even as it is] If what I'm saying is true - is LS400 or E300 [or whatever] OK? Sure - because that's how people first go to know those cars. [more or less] Changing the name of a car [other than the number to signify an increase in engine displacement] kills the car. The 'RL' wasn't the 'all-new Legend' in people's minds. It was an 'all-new' car. The 'Legend' died - so people looked elsewhere for a new car. The next 'RL' [still have my fingers crossed it will be called the 'Legend' or Legend RL'] will NOT be FWD. That most likely means that it will be AWD. Still no V8 in sight. But the 3.8 litre V6 will have well over 300 h.p. [so I've read] But no matter how nice it ends up being - without a V8 - it will NEVER be considered an LS430 or E500 or 5-series equal. And that's too bad. Craig!! :)
90LS400Lexus Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 I agree. I never know why they changed the name to "RL". Also- I have yet to figure out why they cannot install a V8 engine and make it a RWD car. Toyota-Lexus makes V8, Nissan-Infiniti has V8, so why doesn't Honda-Acura have V8? I have also tried to figure out why in the world that Honda does not make a pick-up truck. They make cars, SUVs, motorcycles, lawn mowers, 4-wheelers, boat engines, generators, etc., but they still have NOT made a truck- which I think is a mistake, considering how popular trucks are now. At least they did decide to make a mid-size SUV. Honda-Acura is a very capable car company and being a previous owner of a few different Accords with over 200K, they are one of my favorite cars, but they need to wake up. I think that they are missing the boat when it comes to trucks and their flagship luxury car.
SW03ES Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Agreed. One of the great automotive blunders has to be Acura dropping the name "Legend". For one thing, the "Legend" had more name recognition than "Acura" itself. Even today I talk to people who ask me what ever happened to the "Legend". Something that Acura will never recover from, even IF the next RL is badged the Legend (which I hear it will not be). I wouldnt hold your breath about AWD or RWD either, I'm hearing it will remain FWD just like the TL. Everyone hoped the next TL would at least be AWD, no go. Acura and Infiniti both will always be a cut below Lexus who plays with the big boys. Not for lack of being a good car. My parents just got a new FX35 and its an awesome car, way more fun and interesting then anything Lexus sells, cheaper too with more equipment but it'll never have the name recognition. You say "I drive an Acura" or "an Infiniti" and people look at you funny, most people dont even know how to spell Infiniti, but Lexus always gets that recognition. Even from people that hate it. People dont hate things that they have no respect for. It takes a certain amount of respect or fear (fear is a type of respect) to drive people to hate. Nobody hates an Acura or an Infiniti, but there are plenty that hate Lexus. "Mercedes" "BMW" "Lexus" they're all symbols of wealth. The names have a cache that go with them, Acura and Infiniti have no such symbolism or cache. They may stand for quality, but so does Toyota. I remember when I was shopping for the Lexus, I brought the Acura TL home one day for my fiance to look at (my mother was there too) niether one of them know anything about cars and the first words from each of them "I thought you wanted a luxury car?" no joke. The Acura didnt come across to them that way at all. The Lexus however got a much different reaction.
Lexus. Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Yea, RL is one heck of a stupid name. It's hard to swallow, hard to say fast..."Are-Ell"... doesnt quite roll off your tongue with effortless ease of Clinton orating the state of union. Quick, say it five times - do you drive an RL, RL, RL, RL, RL...Maybe the Acura's marketing geniuses, who acceded to the advise of that !Removed! Corky, should've named it Ralphie or Lauren or something like that...
SW03ES Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 LOL, I think it all had to do with keeping up with the Joneses, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes all used alphanumerical names.
CanadaCraig Posted December 18, 2003 Author Posted December 18, 2003 That WAS the reason - SW03ES. The Acura people [so I read] didn't like the fact that no one knew 'Acura' but DID know 'Legend'. I wrote an article on this very thing once - and posted it at VTEC.com. Silly move. If I were in charge - the next RL [which should be out next October] would indeed be called the Legend. Wouldn't that be great? "The Legend is BACK!!" Oh well... As far as the next RL NOT being AWD or RWD - apparantly the head of Honda/Acura has promised that is will definitely NOT be FWD. Acura has been under a lot of pressure from its dealer's. The RL is not a big seller and pales in comparison [as a car] even to Acura's own TL. [especially the really nice 2004 model] And just you know... RL stands for 'Road Luxury' and TL stands for 'Touring Luxury'. Craig!! :)
99lsguy Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Yes - the TL outsells the RL by 8 to 1 or better.... I drove both. Tried to convice myself the RL was the MOTHER FLAGSHIP; but the TL is far more advanced technically. And a whole lot cheaper!! Once I was at a stop light in the RL, I heard the COOLING FAN come on and it reminded my of my 1985 Accord that I put 227,000 miles on - I just had to walk away..... I was trying to find a car comparable to the LS, but the RL wasn't one of them. Acura makes a solid car though.
VMF Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 i still love my LEGEND!!! it looks sexy!!!!! and it handles turns better then my ls being lower to the ground but ls has a better ride quality and comfort
99lsguy Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 vmf, the Legend is excellent - I WANTED to buy the RL but WANTED more interior room !!! I told the dealer how I felt about the "flagship" . It should have more separation from the TL. Especially more Interior room. 3-4 Inches+ leg room, 2" head room, 3-4" width and I would have bought the RL. I imagine it's just as reliable as the LS...
SW03ES Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Not quite. Acura has some serious reliability issues in their transmission, and also have squeaks and rattle problems. Almost 20% of all TL transmissions fail within 30,000 miles.
99lsguy Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Steve, That's an alarming Rate!! You know, I did have a friend with 01 TL - and he did said the tranny was no good. Only 30-40 K too! Acura has really slipped
VMF Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 thats for TLs, legends didnt have this problem and on manual trannies they will go forver. legends were built in japan while TL are local and like the rest of the USA car products they suck!
SW03ES Posted December 18, 2003 Posted December 18, 2003 Oh no the Legend is a very reliable car. I was talking about the newer Acuras.
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