The Great Oil Change Discussion

[BaddBoi70]

Smooth1 -

I imagine with the continued rising costs of gas at the pump that this topic is going to come up quite often over the next few months. My vote is to find a great thread, perhaps the one you pasted into your reply here and have it *PINNED*.

Just my 2 cents :D

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[Knightshade]

I just purchased a 2008 IS 250 RWD w/ nav. It states premium fuel only. Is this necessary or can regular unleaded fuel work? I have put a tank of regular and did not see much difference. Maybe a mile or two per gallon. Just does not make up fo the cost of premium. Please help!

It's pretty simple math to see that 2 mpg MORE than pays for the cost of premium fuel.

That's $4 for 20 gallons of fuel since premium is generally 20 cents a gallon more.

And if you get 2 mpg better that's 40 extra miles you travel. For about the cost of 1 gallon.

Not to mention the eventual engine harm you're saving using the correct gasoline.

[smooth1]

Smooth1 -

I imagine with the continued rising costs of gas at the pump that this topic is going to come up quite often over the next few months. My vote is to find a great thread, perhaps the one you pasted into your reply here and have it *PINNED*.

Just my 2 cents :D

Your probably right.

[JENunnez]

Premium in all the cars I've owned.

My wife has a '98 Tacoma that regular is recomended but she allways put premium, now if she puts regular the gas milage goes down,it runs on and on when shut down and it knocks like crazy. Go figure, it got use to the good stuff.

[bartkat]

Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.

A Real Change Campaign to Lower Your Gas Prices

http://www.americansolutions.com/actioncen...7b-346a1e096659

[gocardinals]

So, I was eating lunch today with our know-it-all from work. I mentioned my IS suggests premium, and I said people here on the forum said you get better mileage when you use premium. He tried to tell me that you actually get worse mileage when you use premium, and in fact the only thing premium does is prevent knocks. What can I tell him? He's not right, is he?

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[smooth1]

So, I was eating lunch today with our know-it-all from work. I mentioned my IS suggests premium, and I said people here on the forum said you get better mileage when you use premium. He tried to tell me that you actually get worse mileage when you use premium, and in fact the only thing premium does is prevent knocks. What can I tell him? He's not right, is he?

Reducing knock is the first hurdle to producung a more powerful motor while not sacrificing fuel mileage. As you advance the timing and increase compression ratio's, you have to have a fuel that can resist pre-detonation better. That's also why direct injection can extract more hp out of the engine, by delaying the amount time the fuel is introduced, and controlling more presicely when the detonation occurs. Like the instant the piston peaks and is on the way back down. That's why you allways see more powerful motors use higher octane fuels.

[nomad2009]

Can I use regular gas in my IS 250?

Just Kidding!!! Lets discuss the possibility that you spend the extra money on the Premium and it turns out that its Regular anyway. How can any of us even know if we are getting what we are paying for anyway. The number on the pump is a number. Does weights and measures or someone even make sure stations are doing the right thing?

Stations are closing down left and right with the pricing going crazy, Exxon is getting out of the gas station business and selling all the stations. Transport companies that haul gas are also getting out of the business. This will all lead to more shady situation.

I see gouging all the time, I can go 2 miles and see a .10 price difference and they really overcharge premium.

In conclusion can we even trust we are getting high octane gas?

[Knightshade]

Can I use regular gas in my IS 250?

Just Kidding!!! Lets discuss the possibility that you spend the extra money on the Premium and it turns out that its Regular anyway. How can any of us even know if we are getting what we are paying for anyway. The number on the pump is a number. Does weights and measures or someone even make sure stations are doing the right thing?

Stations are closing down left and right with the pricing going crazy, Exxon is getting out of the gas station business and selling all the stations. Transport companies that haul gas are also getting out of the business. This will all lead to more shady situation.

I see gouging all the time, I can go 2 miles and see a .10 price difference and they really overcharge premium.

In conclusion can we even trust we are getting high octane gas?

Yes, most states have a govt agency (usually some kinda weights/measures place) that inspects that stuff pretty regularly.

Honestly, it's not worth them risking being put out of business to make an extra $2 a tank off people anyway.

[nomad2009]

Oil and gas companies are always getting busted for fraud. A huge NY company just got busted for pumping air into the line

so that the electronic registers pulsers would think it was more fuel. They ripped everyone off for 17 years. 2 bucks adds up, they make small margin on selling gas.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=112745

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/6774024/detail.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/nyregion...ml?ref=nyregion

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa...g.456d5532.html

Just google it this was the first page, i bet 1 out 3 are cheating ya, and you car is fine on that placebo thats in you heads!

i am opening new topic on this

thanks knight!

[nomad2009]

I decided to open a varying discussion on the 'what gas have you been using discussion' Topic. This is the last 2 comments at the end of the pages of that topic, i brought up what I feel is a valid point.

Can I use regular gas in my IS 250?

Just Kidding!!! Lets discuss the possibility that you spend the extra money on the Premium and it turns out that its Regular anyway. How can any of us even know if we are getting what we are paying for anyway. The number on the pump is a number. Does weights and measures or someone even make sure stations are doing the right thing?

Stations are closing down left and right with the pricing going crazy, Exxon is getting out of the gas station business and selling all the stations. Transport companies that haul gas are also getting out of the business. This will all lead to more shady situation.

I see gouging all the time, I can go 2 miles and see a .10 price difference and they really overcharge premium.

In conclusion can we even trust we are getting high octane gas?

Knightshade

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Find Member's Posts Jun 13 2008, 09:08 PM Post #54

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Yes, most states have a govt agency (usually some kinda weights/measures place) that inspects that stuff pretty regularly.

Honestly, it's not worth them risking being put out of business to make an extra $2 a tank off people anyway.

nomad2009

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Find Member's Posts Today, 11:16 AM Post #55

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Car Model:IS 250 2008

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Oil and gas companies are always getting busted for fraud. A huge NY company just got busted for pumping air into the line so that the electronic registers pulsers would think it was more fuel. They ripped everyone off for 17 years. 2 bucks adds up, they make small margin on selling gas.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=112745

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/6774024/detail.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/nyregion...ml?ref=nyregion

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa...g.456d5532.html

Just google it this was the first page, i bet 1 out 3 are cheating ya, and you car is fine on that placebo thats in you heads!

i am opening new topic on this

thanks knight!

So i say to all the "Premium Pumpers" what if in fact as you so staunchly debate how well your Lexus operates on the High Octane you have been using Regular crap gas?

With no Knock, knock knock............................

[nomad2009]

Tankers pull in with regular that has had a additive dumped in the tanker and splash blended. Whose to say how much? I am smelling scam with this.

These are interesting if you have time.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/...93/article.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5634330.html

"Manufacturers want to be able to quote high horsepower numbers," Brauer said. "If it's not run on premium, it probably won't ever hurt the car. It probably won't ever be noticed by most drivers. But they can still have their claimed horsepower for their brochures."

full article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0501595_pf.html

[bartkat]

The "what gas are you using" thread was combined out of a bunch of gas threads. It was pinned to make it visible and for people to add comments. This was to prevent the proliferation of more gas threads cluttering up the forum. This thread is being moved there for the same reasons. The topic can be discussed in the pinned forum just as well as anywhere else.

[Knightshade]

Tankers pull in with regular that has had a additive dumped in the tanker and splash blended. Whose to say how much? I am smelling scam with this.

These are interesting if you have time.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/...93/article.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5634330.html

"Manufacturers want to be able to quote high horsepower numbers," Brauer said. "If it's not run on premium, it probably won't ever hurt the car. It probably won't ever be noticed by most drivers. But they can still have their claimed horsepower for their brochures."

full article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0501595_pf.html

Unfotunately there's quite a lot of misleading or simply wrong information in that article

For example:

"Among cars that come in for service, Gregori said, he can't tell which have been sipping premium."

If he checks the ECU he can tell. This guy is not a tech though, he's a dealer. Which almost insures he has no idea what he's talking about.

"But in all modern cars, computers adjust the timing of the engine's compression so that "pre-ignition" never happens, said Cole Quinnell, a spokesman for Chrysler Group Engineering."

This one is just factually impossible. The car has -no idea- what kind of fuel is in it. How could it?

The computer -will- adjust timing, but can only do so after the knock sensor detects knock. Which is pre-ignition.

It will pull timing back to prevent -further- damage from knocking, but the initial knock is what causes that to happen.

Further, since it's programmed to use the 91-octane fuel map, and it has no idea WHY it knocked or what kind of gas you have in the car, it will eventually add that timing BACK IN and knock again... then pull timing again... in a vicious cycle that in the long term is bad for the engine.

Now, the one valid point the article has is that -most- cars DO NOT require premium, and they don't claim to. And for those cars using it is a complete waste of money.

For the cars that -do- require it it's a foolish $2 per tank savings that will cost you in the long run (or often in the short term when mileage is worse from constant timing adjustments the ECU has to make)

[JENunnez]

Ok, here's something to think about.

I know that different gas companys have there own blends, additives so on but......

I use to use Citco premium all the time until one day I couldn't get to one so I put another brand (Sonoco). All of a sudden I'm getting 60 more miles from a tankfull. I kept putting Sonoco in to see if

the reading was right and yes it kept getting those 60 extra miles. Went back and put Citgo and ,bang, lost the milage again. Then I tried it with my wife's car and same result.

So if any of you are using Citco only try another brand to see if it changes your mpg.

Maybe it's worth a go.

Plus now I don't even go near Citco cause of Chavez.

[bartkat]

Ok, here's something to think about.

I know that different gas companys have there own blends, additives so on but......

I use to use Citco premium all the time until one day I couldn't get to one so I put another brand (Sonoco). All of a sudden I'm getting 60 more miles from a tankfull. I kept putting Sonoco in to see if

the reading was right and yes it kept getting those 60 extra miles. Went back and put Citgo and ,bang, lost the milage again. Then I tried it with my wife's car and same result.

So if any of you are using Citco only try another brand to see if it changes your mpg.

Maybe it's worth a go.

Plus now I don't even go near Citco cause of Chavez.

I do know that Venezuelan crude is high sulfur content and the Citgo refinery is the only one that can refine it to US "spec". Perhaps the low mileage is just another way for Chavez to get back at us. :(

[JENunnez]

Chavez-- :chairshot: --US

[nomad2009]

ok, I am man enough to admit that I put regular in last fill. I notice no difference at all however the funny thing is i gained

an extra mile per gallon? I was consistently getting 24.5 now 25.5

hmmmmm? Knightshade!!! give us a brilliant reply!!!! lol

[nomad2009]

The "what gas are you using" thread was combined out of a bunch of gas threads. It was pinned to make it visible and for people to add comments. This was to prevent the proliferation of more gas threads cluttering up the forum. This thread is being moved there for the same reasons. The topic can be discussed in the pinned forum just as well as anywhere else.

ok Bartkat no prob!

[Knightshade]

ok, I am man enough to admit that I put regular in last fill. I notice no difference at all however the funny thing is i gained

an extra mile per gallon? I was consistently getting 24.5 now 25.5

hmmmmm? Knightshade!!! give us a brilliant reply!!!! lol

Sure. One tank is useless info.

Weather can make a much larger difference in mileage, for example, as well as the type of driving, and a myriad of other factors.

It doesn't really matter if -you- notice though, the engine will when it has to pull timing because of the knock it detects. ECUs are smart enough these days it'll be a fairly long time before you notice the damage you're doing. If you don't plan to keep the car a long time you may never see it in fact, which I guess is great for everyone except the next owner.

[bartkat]

The "what gas are you using" thread was combined out of a bunch of gas threads. It was pinned to make it visible and for people to add comments. This was to prevent the proliferation of more gas threads cluttering up the forum. This thread is being moved there for the same reasons. The topic can be discussed in the pinned forum just as well as anywhere else.

ok Bartkat no prob!

[smooth1]

Fill your car up at a Chevron, Conoco, Phillips 66, or Shell gas stations only. Why? Because they are the only oil companies to achieve "Top Tier" fuel ratings. This "top tier" rating was established by BMW, GM, Honda, and Toyota. It's the "next" gen. of fuel, and they follow a much higher standard for detergent and fuel quality.

[Knightshade]

Fill your car up at a Chevron, Conoco, Phillips 66, or Shell gas stations only. Why? Because they are the only oil companies to achieve "Top Tier" fuel ratings. This "top tier" rating was established by BMW, GM, Honda, and Toyota. It's the "next" gen. of fuel, and they follow a much higher standard for detergent and fuel quality.

Actually, Top Tier is a marketing gimmick... the difference in additives between top tier and the bare legal minimum gasoline you can sell in the US is less than 1 cent a gallons worth... A twice-yearly gasoline-quality survey by the trade group Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers "hasn't identified any quality differences based on geography or brand,"

"I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.

"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.

I'm not saying to go buy Smiley brand gasoline... but all gasoline sold in the US has to meet the same minimum standards, and the notion that you should go out of your way to buy from Conoco instead of, say, Mobil, because one signed onto a marketing gimmick and one didn't, is just silly.

All the quotes/info above from a nice article USA Today ran on Top Tier about a year ago BTW